KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

#51
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

You guys owe it to yourselves to shoot 10 shot groups. It's a much better statistical sample of accuracy of specific ammo in a gun. Dog shit ammo can occasionally group well in 3 and 5 shot groups.
 
#52
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boomfab</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys owe it to yourselves to shoot 10 shot groups. It's a much better statistical sample of accuracy of specific ammo in a gun. Dog shit ammo can occasionally group well in 3 and 5 shot groups.

</div></div>

Below are my first 10 shot groups with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Should I still be looking for sub 0.5 to 0.75 from 10 shot groups from 100? Stock trigger, factory ammo, harris bi-pod, no rear bag. For some reason the 140s seemed to shoot right of the 120s. Did not let the barrel rest... perhaps 10 seconds between shots.

March232011Results2.jpg
 
#53
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

Found this online SR-25 EMC carbine.

KAC claimed two shooters produced nearly .5MOA groups at 800 meters with several ammo types.

Chris Costa claimed on silencertalk to have two SR-25's (20" and 16") both capable of 1/4 minute accuracy with his Aimpoint Micro T1.

But here the KAC factory test target shows 5 rounds in .855" at just 100yards.

.855" with a 16" barreled reasonably light military .308 carbine = excellent accuracy.

However if the guns are capable of .5 MOA accuracy at 800 meters with several loads, why does the 100yd test target show a group 71% larger than .5MOA?

67cc8f27.jpg


 
#54
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HPLLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Found this online SR-25 EMC carbine.

KAC claimed two shooters produced nearly .5MOA groups at 800 meters with several ammo types.

Chris Costa claimed on silencertalk to have two SR-25's (20" and 16") both capable of 1/4 minute accuracy with his Aimpoint Micro T1.

But here the KAC factory test target shows 5 rounds in .855" at just 100yards.

.855" with a 16" barreled reasonably light military .308 carbine = excellent accuracy.

However if the guns are capable of .5 MOA accuracy at 800 meters with several loads, why does the 100yd test target show a group 71% larger than .5MOA?

67cc8f27.jpg


</div></div>

Because that particular rifle shot that test target.

Go look at the sampling of the OBR...and you'll see they are scattered all over the damn place. I've seen one in the .3's and the one I bought came with a 1.014 test target if I remember correctly.
 
#55
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

I got my OBR out for the first time this weekend. It shot as good with cheap American Eagle as the test target showed with FGMM.

Can't wait to see what some handloading will do.
 
#56
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

My KAC test target shows a .805 with the REM match ammo. Three bullet holes are touching, cloverleaf, and two more at 1 o'clock on top of each other.
I shopped around for some time before I bought the KAC, I liked the quick barrel change of the LMT, but the weight of the KAC. I ended up with the lighter of the two.
 
#58
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmaHeavy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fired with Remington match...

Me think with handloads the grouping could be tighter. </div></div>

The two shooters and three loads each were all factory match loads also.

Obviously not indicative of the majority produced as the .805 test target mentioned above, the .855 pictured and the M110 target with 4 groups at or larger than 1MOA suggests.

I hope it shot better for you. If I ordered an OBR and it showed up with a test target better than 1MOA I'd be sending it back. The whole idea of these premium guns as I understood them, was premium performance. I like Larue but I wouldn't have expected them to ship an OBR with a greater than 1MOA test target.

The $1550 RRA comes with an advertised 1MOA guarantee.
 
#60
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

Sorry OP, can't help you with those three.

I'm an AR-10{A4 & T} ARMALITE fan man.
And for good reason.

BUT, to quote you:
"Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated."

I have purchased 7 AR-10s since '99 and I have three at this time: 24" AR-10T, 20" AR-10A4 and a virgin 20" AR-10T.

I have seen my 3 20" AR-10A4s {yepper, that means chrome lined barrel} consistently shoot under 1" @ 100yds. Now, that is with knees in the dirt, tailgate for a bench and a MTM gun cradle for a rest using HORNADY 150gr SST @ 2820fps factory fodder. We are making a portable bench at this time.

The first 10A4 was having case separations while still grouping under 1" and short story, Monica had Richard Clancy hand build a replacement:
AR10A4AIMPOINTBUISUP.jpg


AR10A4AIMPOINT.jpg


With an AIMPOINT 5000 2X 1.5MOA RD and fired as stated above in this example:
P1010102.jpg


Here are the evening before deer season 100yd sighting in target and confirmation target. I was in the last 20 minutes of daylight and in my haste I forgot to correct windage for the confirmation target. I moved windage three clicks back to the right and bambi bashed the next day.

P7160373.jpg


P7160374.jpg


P7160375.jpg


My brother shot 5/8"-7/8" @ 100yds the first weekend of this July with my latest 10A4 topped off with sub $300 Burris FFII Tactical color coordinated 3-9x40 glass. Louis is legally blind without his glasses:
P1010032.jpg


Didn't take pics of the targets because they are routine. What wasn't routine was he shot those groups with a box of BH 168gr Match and I have never had any of my AR-10s like BH anything.

Just my .02 to throw in the pot.

Of the three?
smiley_bandit.gif





 
#61
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David Walter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking at a 1994 manufacture original Stoner SR-25 Custom Long Distance Match Rifle 24" barrel.

Anyone have experience with either this model, or any rifles from around this date? </div></div>

Yes, a retired leo friend has one. It's nice but not really any different than the multitude of flattop target AR 308 rifles out there.

I would buy it as a collector's item and not a shooter.
 
#63
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiesling</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Need some advice. Taking price out of the equation, what opinions or comments does anyone have in regards to a KAC sr25 vs LaRue OBR vs LMT mws? I have been wanting to get a little more into long range shooting, and owning a couple of AR's my first choice is to stay with something similarly built. Mostly I will be using this new purchase to hunt deer and remove pigs. I have a LaRue Stealth that I built a year ago, and absolutely love, but some of the hogs that roam my ranch travel a little to far into the brush when I don't pierce their ear with the 5.56. Thank the military channel and their shows on sniping that have given me the bug to learn how to really shoot. By that I mean learning more about all of the nuances that go into long distance, accuracy shooting. I have settled on the 7.62 cartridge, but gave the .338 LM a little thought. Too hard to get my hands on, and a little more expensive to shoot. Optics are another entire thread. Although NightForce and Schmidt Bender have been the two I have been looking at.

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Mike </div></div>

Do any of these rifles have accuracy guarantees?

I think 1MOA is a good threshold for a precision rifle.

From that perspective it seems the KAC and Larue OBR are about even keel in terms of likelihood to provide 1MOA accuracy.

I like the MWS concept and feel value is pretty high in that camp, but the gun should be delivered with a stainless barrel, or stainless should be an option for $100. When I was looking, Stainless was a seperate barrel for $700. LMT will probably only sell the MWS complete- so you pay a lot of money for a barrel that doesn't really belong on a long range rifle.

MSTN's group is acceptably inside 1MOA, but I've seen a lot of end users reporting 1.5MOA and at the risk of splitting hairs I don't think 1MOA is an unreasonable expectation for accuracy from a $2000+ rifle in 2011.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Sorry didn't realize this was so old, I read most of the first page after being directed here by a friend who was looking for a 308 semi auto, and decided to respond to the first post. </span>
 
#65
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

I didn't think LaRue shipped any gun that didn't test at less than 1 MOA. I know I've seen that on their site.

I just got my 20" OBR 7.62 last month. I don't have any experience with AR-type guns so I have a lot to learn and new skills to acquire. It sure isn't like shooting a bolt gun or even an M1A.

Here's a target from my first trip to the range with it. I can't wait until I bring my skills up to match its potential (and work up a load for it). This was shot with a basic A2 stock and all I could muster was a 'chin weld' (just replaced it with a PRS). We'll have to see how things develop, but for now I'm loving this gun.
137969923.jpg
 
#66
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

M110A1Unsuppressed29April.jpg


Here is the M110 that I took to Singapore to (win) their Semi-Auto Sniper Trial last year.

M110A1Suppressed29April.jpg



I shot about 15 different types of ammo through it.
One thing you will see in any gun is that some guns like specific loads while its brother/sister may not.


We do not ship any commercial gun that shoot above 1MOA Extreme Spread.

Government guns are done per contract - The Army contract is by AMR (Average Mean Radius).
 
#69
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

Although I really dont shoot my EMC this way I was curious to see what was lurking under the hood as far as accuracy capability. It looks to me that it is a .5 moa rifle. It was my buddy and myself. me with the EMC and he with his OBR. FWIW we each fired our smallest groups of the day with my EMC. Was first time out for the OBR and only 3rd time out for the EMC, first time wearing a scope. Who knows maybe next time we will both shoot the OBR better, they were very close in accuracy.

Shane
 
#70
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

One thing I have notice with the SR-25 type guns (be it ours, LMT or Larue) is that you generally get better groups at 200+ than you do at 100.

I do notice I shoot better groups with my EMC with the Leupold 1.1-8x on it than higher power scopes. Part is no double do to the fact that in the last two years I've shot way over 20k rounds thru CQBSS's - but also cause I cant really see my previous rounds, so I just shoot at my same POA. With scopes like the Leupold 6.5-20x M2010, or 5-22x S&B scope I see bullet impact and it typically plays with me.
 
#71
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Found this online SR-25 EMC carbine.

KAC claimed two shooters produced nearly .5MOA groups at 800 meters with several ammo types.

Chris Costa claimed on silencertalk to have two SR-25's (20" and 16") both <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">capable of 1/4 minute accuracy with his Aimpoint Micro T1</span>. </span>

But here the KAC factory test target shows 5 rounds in .855" at just 100yards.

.855" with a 16" barreled reasonably light military .308 carbine = excellent accuracy.

However if the guns are capable of .5 MOA accuracy at 800 meters with several loads, why does the 100yd test target show a group 71% larger than .5MOA?


</div></div>

Not trying to stir anything up here but how can you get 1/4 moa accuracy out of an optic that features a 4 minute dot?
 
#72
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NF1986</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Found this online SR-25 EMC carbine.

KAC claimed two shooters produced nearly .5MOA groups at 800 meters with several ammo types.

Chris Costa claimed on silencertalk to have two SR-25's (20" and 16") both <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">capable of 1/4 minute accuracy with his Aimpoint Micro T1</span>. </span>

But here the KAC factory test target shows 5 rounds in .855" at just 100yards.

.855" with a 16" barreled reasonably light military .308 carbine = excellent accuracy.

However if the guns are capable of .5 MOA accuracy at 800 meters with several loads, why does the 100yd test target show a group 71% larger than .5MOA?


</div></div>

Not trying to stir anything up here but how can you get 1/4 moa accuracy out of an optic that features a 4 minute dot? </div></div>

It gotta be the beard! j/k

Hard to believe however I wouldn't say impossible.

An ultra super consistent sight picture on a 4" or 5" shoot-N-C target out at 100? Use the dot to cover the target and squeeze off? As long as you can keep the same aiming reference point it should work...

Then again I can't come close to holding anywhere near 1/4 MOA so I really shouldn't be saying shit. Every time someone asks me how I or my rifle shoots I just shrug my shoulders and say "MOA-ish?".
wink.gif


I dont doubt Costa though... he doesn't seem the type to blow smoke up peoples asses.
 
#73
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

An ultra super consistent sight picture on a 4" or 5" shoot-N-C target out at 100? Use the dot to cover the target and squeeze off? As long as you can keep the same aiming reference point it should work...

</div></div>

I have shot sub-MOA groups at 100 using my Volquartsen 10/22 with an H-1 using this technique (off a bipod and rear bag from the bench). I also turned the Aimpoint illumination to the lowest setting I could see.

I think someone who shoots ALOT of groups, and shoots them better than I do could manage a 1/4" group now and again---especially if that person measured the best 3 of 5... But the obvious questions are, did it shoot that well once? If so, out of how many attempts? And why are the rifles being shipped from the factory not shooting that well on average with magnified optics?
 
#76
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: archad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What type of barrel steel does the KAC EMC use? ETA SS or 4140 etc.</div></div>

I was told it was an Obermyer, 1/11.25.... They may have changed that by now. (the barrel make)
 
#77
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

4150CMV Chrome Lined - (MilSpec barrel Steel).

I've seen Costa shoot with the T1 - He uses the top of the dot and is very consistent, I thought he was kidding when he went to shoot serious groups with it, but, hey he can do it.

I find if I turn the dot down low, and use the top of the dot, I can get around 1" groups at 100yds when using a T-1 (and a rest) - I have pretty good eyesight as well.
 
#78
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

How do the KAC SR-25 EM and EMC compare to each other? Is one more accurate then the other? What are the differences in them besides the obvious? Assuming you don't own a KAC suppressor, will the carbine fit a reflex suppressor (SureFire or AAC)?
 
#80
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

Glad to have found this thread. Answering all those questions without creating a new post.

I'm considering the Knights SR25 EMC and the Larue OBR. The EMC is more appealing but I am having sticker shock. Maybe what I see on GB is grossly inflated. I know Larue and own many mounts but the Knights carbine is really what I want.

Is there a distributor online that I can check my price as an FFL?

I know we all demand accuracy in these platforms. But, my primary concern is also reliability and the one man one rifle philosophy. I'd like to have this rifle be the one that goes with me everytime. I've even considered the SCAR-H to fill the role. But, I prefer and have more faith in the AR Platform.

Its good to see a representative of the company I'm going to drop some considerable coin with posting here. Are the AAC blackout flash hider adaptors going to work with this barrel? Kevin do you have any suggestions to help me along with my decision?
 
#81
Re: KAC sr25 or LMT mws or LaRue obr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David Walter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking at a 1994 manufacture original Stoner SR-25 Custom Long Distance Match Rifle 24" barrel.

Anyone have experience with either this model, or any rifles from around this date? </div></div>

I have a 1993 KAC SR-25 Match/Mk11 Mod 0 (factory built) with the 24" Obermeyer barrel. To me, it is the quintessential semi-auto .308. It came complete with the Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x40 M3 LR/T Mil-Dot scope.

004-8.jpg


005-6.jpg
 
#84
One of our company weapons is an 18" OBR 7.62. The short story is that it is heavier than other .308/7.62 platforms I've shot, but it is very accurate. I've shot some .75" groups at 100 yards and 1.9" groups at 200 yards.

155 SWA Scenar-L and 175 SWA shoot about the same sub-MOA as well as factory 168G FGMM. 147G NATO DAG opens up a lot to around 3-5 MOA.

Muzzle velocities at 3-4K DA avg 2550 with the 175's and the 155 Scenars are about 200 fps faster under same conditions.
 
#85
I could almost buy both a PredOBR 762 & 556 for the cost of a KAC....if cost wasn't an issue I'd own both

As far as education on these platforms, this is the single best Thread that I have come across. A good blend of opinions & facts with documentation to support.
 
#87
Among other weapons, my company uses two OBRs; one in 5.56 and the other 7.62. We are also waiting for our tOBR in 5.56 to show up. Accuracy of the two we have is very good but both weigh more than I'd like. As to the question about BCG coatings - LaRue uses a hard chrome finish for all parts of the BCG.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
#88
I own an sr25 And an mws. I don't own an obr, but I do have a repr. The kac is the most accurate and easiest to shoot. The mws is the superior value proposition. The repr is an incredibly constructed piece of engineering, but the performance just isn't there. I love it as a piece of technology though, and may try an f&d to see if they fixed that.
 
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