Rifle Scopes Kahles or Leupold MK 5HD

[dldavis]

Kahles K624i or Leupold MK 5HD
I am looking at the Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25-56 with the PR1-MilFFP retical or the Kahles K624i . I am building a rifle for 600 to 1200 yard shooting. What is your thoughts? The Kahles is almost $700 more.
Is it worth it?
Let me know your thoughts....

 

[simonp]

Tough call but Id go for the Khales personally. I have a couple of the MK 5's and a couple of the Khales and the glass on the Khales is definitely a better to my eyes.

 

[Cr1775]

Kahles K624i or Leupold MK 5HD
I am looking at the Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25-56 with the PR1-MilFFP retical or the Kahles K624i . I am building a rifle for 600 to 1200 yard shooting. What is your thoughts? The Kahles is almost $700 more.
Is it worth it?
Let me know your thoughts....

I have bitter experience with Kahles on warranty yes better glass marginally worth the extra cash? Up to you. Me i would go MK 5.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I don't buy from either company because both have, in times past, decided to thoroughly and completely fuck their customers.

Maybe both are awesome now, but "fool me twice" governs...

There are consistent and reputable scope makers out there.

 

[Maurygold]

Leupold.

 

[BCP]

Nightforce should be on your list imho

 

[dldavis]

I don't buy from either company because both have, in times past, decided to thoroughly and completely fuck their customers.

Maybe both are awesome now, but "fool me twice" governs...

There are consistent and reputable scope makers out there.

What brands do you currentlt like? Thanks for your impute

 

[Maurygold]

Nightforce should be on your list imho

not unless he is spending double for the ATACR. mark 5HD > NX8 if you're comparing apples to apples.

 

[simonp]

I don't buy from either company because both have, in times past, decided to thoroughly and completely fuck their customers.

Maybe both are awesome now, but "fool me twice" governs...

There are consistent and reputable scope makers out there.

How so? Just curious how they have fucked their customers in the past, I have heard mixed reviews on Khales warranty service but so far Ive had no need of them so I cant comment.

 

[GIXXER2000]

With the sale going on at Sport Optics I would look at the Zeiss LR5 5-25x56 on sale for $2999. I missed out on the S3 6-36X56

 

[FuhQ]

Kahles K624i or Zeiss LRP S3 4-25x50…

 

[FuhQ]

With the sale going on at Sport Optics I would look at the Zeiss LR5 5-25x56 on sale for $2999. I missed out on the S3 6-36X56

You realize that sale is dealer-wide, right? Midway, EuroOptic, etc… are all running the 25% off sale on the Zeiss LRP series. So, unless everybody is sold out of 6-36’s, you haven’t missed it.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Kahles K624i gen 1 was optical garbage, gen2 was better but still not good - and all that was with premium pricing in place. Many inquiries resulted in responses of "that is the optical quality of the product." Was a screaming "fuck you" to their early adopters of the K line.
Leupold: over 20 years of tactical products that sucked balls. I will readily admit that I am basing my generalization on products dating back to the 90s, but I had so many scopes fail that I refused to ever buy again - and to only use under protest. They used to be famous for canted reticles, tracking that was terrible, turrets that were garbage, and glass that was a few small steps above coke-bottle.

Mileage varies, but I have had great experiences with Vortex. Their tracking has been dead nuts for me on everything Razer (and that, for a turret-spinner like me, is the most important thing.) Their warranty and customer service have been top-notch too.

And Nightforce is still always in my mix. Even the NXS line - though far from new designs - are still rock solid for what they are.

There is some wisdom in "pick the reticle first", but I don't run exclusively on that logic. I am an old dog and am still a huge fan of the Gen2XR that Premier made me adopt and begin to love. I don't follow the "latest is greatest" crowd, I find what works for me then stick with it till need forces change.

I hope this helps. I am not trying to discount anyone else's dissenting views or experiences. Lepold and Kahles took small stacks of my money and gave me shit optics; so yea, I am holding some grudges. I hear good things from people I respect regarding both companies, but experiences is experiences...

 

[kthomas]

Kahles K624i gen 1 was optical garbage, gen2 was better but still not good - and all that was with premium pricing in place. Many inquiries resulted in responses of "that is the optical quality of the product." Was a screaming "fuck you" to their early adopters of the K line.
Leupold: over 20 years of tactical products that sucked balls. I will readily admit that I am basing my generalization on products dating back to the 90s, but I had so many scopes fail that I refused to ever buy again - and to only use under protest. They used to be famous for canted reticles, tracking that was terrible, turrets that were garbage, and glass that was a few small steps above coke-bottle.

Mileage varies, but I have had great experiences with Vortex. Their tracking has been dead nuts for me on everything Razer (and that, for a turret-spinner like me, is the most important thing.) Their warranty and customer service have been top-notch too.

And Nightforce is still always in my mix. Even the NXS line - though far from new designs - are still rock solid for what they are.

There is some wisdom in "pick the reticle first", but I don't run exclusively on that logic. I am an old dog and am still a huge fan of the Gen2XR that Premier made me adopt and begin to love. I don't follow the "latest is greatest" crowd, I find what works for me then stick with it till need forces change.

I hope this helps. I am not trying to discount anyone else's dissenting views or experiences. Lepold and Kahles took small stacks of my money and gave me shit optics; so yea, I am holding some grudges. I hear good things from people I respect regarding both companies, but experiences is experiences...

Every scope has its trade-offs.

I think Khales does a good job making a scope that's really good at everything, but not the best at any one thing (except perhaps tracking reliability, and maybe reticle selection). Though not really the best value at their current MSRP.

If you are looking for the best optical quality, I agree, Khales is not the scope you are looking for. But neither is Vortex or NF or Leupold.

The best scope for any one individual really depends on what trade-offs you are willing to make to get the features you want.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I agree with the statement as a standalone; however, I would contend that Kahles having misrepresented itself and the gen1 and gen2 is less about gen3 or later and all about trust and respect. I have lost all trust and respect for both companies -and fully accept that others have not.

Every maker of anything makes a bad one, the measure of the company is what they do when they screw something up. Kahles didn't do right by me, Leupold didn't do right by users for many, many years. My comments are on the companies and why I don't buy from them.

I agree that everything is a trade-off; but treating customers like shit is weighted heavily with me.

 

[BCP]

Mileage varies, but I have had great experiences with Vortex.

I liked their 5-20 razor model seen a couple go on ebay for 900-1000. And yes NXS still around, they work great and still sell for good money because people know their value.

 

[kthomas]

I agree with the statement as a standalone; however, I would contend that Kahles having misrepresented itself and the gen1 and gen2 is less about gen3 or later and all about trust and respect. I have lost all trust and respect for both companies -and fully accept that others have not.

Every maker of anything makes a bad one, the measure of the company is what they do when they screw something up. Kahles didn't do right by me, Leupold didn't do right by users for many, many years. My comments are on the companies and why I don't buy from them.

I agree that everything is a trade-off; but treating customers like shit is weighted heavily with me.

I have gen 1 and gen 2 Khales scopes as well.

I've never dealt with Khales CS, so I can't speak to that. Sucks you had a bad experience (if you are in fact speaking about their CS) - I will say that a common trend is that American based companies tend to value CS more than euro-centric ones. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Khales CS is not to the same level of quality of Vortex's.

Some of optical quality is subjective - what looks good or bad to you may not translate to other's experiences. There are tangible and intangible parameters to optical quality.

Personally, I have no issues with the optical quality of my specific Khales scopes. I know that I can get a better optical quality with TT, ZCO or S&B - but to me that difference in optical quality is not a deal breaker. Quite honestly, from an optical quality standpoint, my Khales are more than capable for the tasks I use it for.

But everyone has different eyes, and needs and wants when it comes to optical quality, both tangible and intangible.

 

[FuhQ]

I agree with the statement as a standalone; however, I would contend that Kahles having misrepresented itself and the gen1 and gen2 is less about gen3 or later and all about trust and respect. I have lost all trust and respect for both companies -and fully accept that others have not.

Every maker of anything makes a bad one, the measure of the company is what they do when they screw something up. Kahles didn't do right by me, Leupold didn't do right by users for many, many years. My comments are on the companies and why I don't buy from them.

I agree that everything is a trade-off; but treating customers like shit is weighted heavily with me.

I know my Gen3 K624i (or whatever Gen is the newest CCW/RSW that has the SKMR4 reticle) is pretty solid. I have 2 of them. I also have a recent l current Gen K318i CCW/RSW with the SKMR3, and it’s a great hunting scope. I find the glass to be very good, clear, cuts sunlight and refraction like a champ. But everyone’s eyes are different.

 

[FuhQ]

I will say that a common trend is that American based companies tend to value CS more than euro-centric ones. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Khales CS is not to the same level of quality of Vortex's.

This mirrors my experiences dealing with Euro company CS & reps back in the day. The worst CS I really had to deal with a lot was Swarovski. Talk about a company full of snobs. P. Beretta was easily 2nd, and possibly a tie for first place with Swaro.

Ironically, Leopold had great CS back then for us, but their products sucked, and they obviously knew it, by how willing they were to tell us to “Box it up, toss on a comparable scope you have in stock to get them up and running, and we’ll send you out a new one, and then send us the damaged one in the box with the prepaid label…”

 

[simonp]

I know my Gen3 K624i (or whatever Gen is the newest CCW/RSW that has the SKMR4 reticle) is pretty solid. I have 2 of them. I also have a recent l current Gen K318i CCW/RSW with the SKMR3, and it’s a great hunting scope. I find the glass to be very good, clear, cuts sunlight and refraction like a champ. But everyone’s eyes are different.

Out of curiosity how does one determine what Gen your Khales scopes are?

 

[jetjock07]

I’d suggest broadening your search more than just those 2, especially with the current sales and Black Friday right around the corner. I much prefer my Zeiss LRP S3 over my Leupold MK5 HD.

 

[GIXXER2000]

Well got the Black Friday bug and just got the Zeiss LRP S3 6-36X56 from Eurooptics $1874.99 Total shipped price. I did have to back order but at that price I can wait a little while.

Update I am going to put it on my Vudoo 360

 

[dldavis]

I have gen 1 and gen 2 Khales scopes as well.

I've never dealt with Khales CS, so I can't speak to that. Sucks you had a bad experience (if you are in fact speaking about their CS) - I will say that a common trend is that American based companies tend to value CS more than euro-centric ones. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Khales CS is not to the same level of quality of Vortex's.

Some of optical quality is subjective - what looks good or bad to you may not translate to other's experiences. There are tangible and intangible parameters to optical quality.

Personally, I have no issues with the optical quality of my specific Khales scopes. I know that I can get a better optical quality with TT, ZCO or S&B - but to me that difference in optical quality is not a deal breaker. Quite honestly, from an optical quality standpoint, my Khales are more than capable for the tasks I use it for.

But everyone has different eyes, and needs and wants when it comes to optical quality, both tangible and intangible.

What are, TT, ZCO and S&B ??

 

[J_D]

Well got the Black Friday bug and just got the Zeiss LRP S3 6-36X56 from Eurooptics $1874.99 Total shipped price. I did have to back order but at that price I can wait a little while.

I just ordered my second for that same price. They cover the taxes for you. Nice deal.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

The Kahles glass will beat the MK5 and NF glass. The Zeiss S3 glass will at least keep up with the Kahles. Zeiss S5 glass is up there with ZCO and TT.

 

[FuhQ]

Out of curiosity how does one determine what Gen your Khales scopes are?

Rifle Scopes - Kahles K624i... How can you tell which gen. you have?

I have seen a lot written about the differences in performance between the generations, but if you are looking at a used scope how can you know which gen. you have in your hands. I know that the turrets went from knurled to scalloped but I have seen some say that was from gen 1 to gen 2 and...

www.snipershide.com

 

[FuhQ]

What are, TT, ZCO and S&B ??

Tangent Theta, Zero Compromise Optic, and Schmidt & Bender... All VERY expensive (+$3,500) alpha tier scopes.

 

[FuhQ]

Well got the Black Friday bug and just got the Zeiss LRP S3 6-36X56 from Eurooptics $1874.99 Total shipped price. I did have to back order but at that price I can wait a little while.

Update I am going to put it on my Vudoo 360

I have that same scope...You'll like it.

 

[xxflyingturtlexx]

I’d suggest broadening your search more than just those 2, especially with the current sales and Black Friday right around the corner. I much prefer my Zeiss LRP S3 over my Leupold MK5 HD.

Please explain, i am genuinely interested in

 

[dldavis]

Where does NightForce qulity fall in with Mark 5 and Kahles ?

 

[FuhQ]

Where does NightForce qulity fall in with Mark 5 and Kahles ?

Better than MK5, not as good as Kahles. Once you feel Kahles turrets and the precision in them, you’ll realize the superiority. NF has pretty good turrets, but a few issues holding them back… Their parallax numbers are pretty much useless (my new ATACR F1 sits at about the 60 yards mark when shooting at 100 ), and their scopes have lots of tunneling and a narrow internal field of view. It’s like looking through a paper towel roll. If NF would fix those couple things, they would be amazing scopes.

The Kahles is Austrian made, with Austrian parts, and Austrian SCHOTT glass. And everyone knows SCHOTT glass is king.

The MK5 is either assembled in the US with Japanese glass, or maybe they are built in Japan fully now (not sure).

And the NF is either made in the US with LOW Japanese glass, or made entirely in Japan at LOW.

 

[Maurygold]

Where does NightForce qulity fall in with Mark 5 and Kahles ?

Better if you go to the atacr line. Otherwise it’s splitting hairs on quality between them at the $2k mark and mostly personal preference. That said I use mark 5hd at the price point.

 

[Jcarpenter223]

I've had a mk5hd and k525i. I've always wanted the kahles and found one at a good price and took the bait. I was very pleased with the mk5 but wanted to also see how it stacked up to the kahles, and I told myself I have to have eyes behind a higher tier scope to really appreciate the more budget friendly mk5hd.

I was 100% set on giving the leupold a huge golden star until I looked through another mk5hd at a match and noticed it did not look the same as mine for some reason. Same conditions, same range...but it didn't hit my eyes the same. It was odd. Kahles glass was sharp and had amazing contrast.

If I have enough money in hand for one or the other, kahles 100%. For what I'm using it for, it's

Attached are the scopes on same tikka, just different chassis/stock

 

[db2000]

I’m just here waiting on a 14 page dissertation on which Chinese scope is just as good and what 50 stores have it at what price….

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Pick the one that has the reticle you prefer. The reticle is how you'll do 90% of your interaction with the optic. Sometimes brands will have the same reticles you prefer and then you can start down other pros/cons. But these two optics' reticles are fairly different. I believe if you buy new, the 624 only has the skmr4 option. Which is going to be significantly different than a PR1 from Leupold.

 

[dldavis]

I've had a mk5hd and k525i. I've always wanted the kahles and found one at a good price and took the bait. I was very pleased with the mk5 but wanted to also see how it stacked up to the kahles, and I told myself I have to have eyes behind a higher tier scope to really appreciate the more budget friendly mk5hd.

I was 100% set on giving the leupold a huge golden star until I looked through another mk5hd at a match and noticed it did not look the same as mine for some reason. Same conditions, same range...but it didn't hit my eyes the same. It was odd. Kahles glass was sharp and had amazing contrast.

If I have enough money in hand for one or the other, kahles 100%. For what I'm using it for, it's

Attached are the scopes on same tikka, just different chassis/stockView attachment 8278495View attachment 8278496

Thanks Great info