Kestrel 5700 Elite with AB and Link

[mildot326]

So I'm hoping that everyone doesn't "roll there eyes" when they see this thread?

I'm about to go all in on one, the model in the subject line. While I've searched, and done some research, it's always better to get real "end user" experience. I've got a "short" list of things I'd like the unit to be able to do. If some of them seem quite obvious, don't go too hard on me.

I'd like to be able to get shooting solutions for multiple targets from say 400 to 800 in 100yrd increments, for a starter, also I'd like to use my Strelok program? I'm not sure if I'll need that? but it has my rifle(s) profiles in it.

My ultimate goal is with practice to become less dependent on the Kestrel except for the weather data? and ultimately shoot out to a mile?

I'm a very "new" user when it comes to the Kestrel, I've shot out to 500 using Strelok and some advice on "reading the wind". I'm really hoping with practice to fine tune my shooting skill and get a better understanding of how it all the elements fit together, to make the "shot". Thanks

 

[Dthomas3523]

If you go with something like a 5700 elite, the point will be to leave everything else in the car. It will hold all your rifle profiles. It will give you a dope card in whatever increments you like and it will store up to 10 targets on the target card.

Anything specific you’re looking for answers?

 

[mildot326]

If you go with something like a 5700 elite, the point will be to leave everything else in the car. It will hold all your rifle profiles. It will give you a dope card in whatever increments you like and it will store up to 10 targets on the target card.

Anything specific you’re looking for answers?

Thanks, I guess I didn't realize that it was that powerful, I had thought I'd need to "link" to the rifle profiles in Strelok on my phone.
I'll still need a rangefinder which is fine.

I read that "truing" is important?, I'm able to shoot at all the distances to confirm that data, is that really necessary? or is the unit pretty accurate?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Thanks, I guess I didn't realize that it was that powerful, I had thought I'd need to "link" to the rifle profiles in Strelok on my phone.
I'll still need a rangefinder which is fine.

I read that "truing" is important?, I'm able to shoot at all the distances to confirm that data, is that really necessary? or is the unit pretty accurate?

Couple different ways:

Using AB custom curve, you’ll basically shoot as far as you can and true the muzzle velocity. If you have far enough to shoot transonic (not likely for most cartridges) you can then also use the DSF function.

If you use a standard g1/g7 bc, you like will true velocity to about 600, and then true your BC at 800+.

Both will get you pretty good results. I’ve had very good luck with AB custom curve. You just have to let the software tell you what muzzle velocity it needs to make the math work.

 

[mildot326]

So once your "set up" and have your range, you use the Kestrel and it gives you your elevation and windage adjustments, so I'm a MIL/MIL shooter and the scope has an H59 reticle. Just "dial" the values and you're G2G? do you need to input lots of data once your "on site"? & set up.

 

[seansmd]

Once you follow what @Dthomas3523 outlined you are good to go.

Follow C.R.U.S.H, if you are on a known distance range, otherwise you will need a range finder.

 

[Dthomas3523]

So once your "set up" and have your range, you use the Kestrel and it gives you your elevation and windage adjustments, so I'm a MIL/MIL shooter and the scope had an H59 reticle. Just "dial" the values and you're G2G? do you need to input lots of data once your "on site"? & set up.

Once you have your data trued, just let the kestrel do its thing and tell you your elevation.

Windage is a little more tricky. Kestrel will give you a good starting point. But you’ll have to access the wind along the flight path and decide if you want to use what the kestrel suggests or something different.

 

[seansmd]

The linking to your phone is more for rifle profiles, and range cards which are easier to create, modify, and view. It also has a single shot hud, but I never use it unless I am testing a rifle ammo set up and lining it up as instructed above.

 

[mildot326]

Once you follow what @Dthomas3523 outlined you are good to go.

Follow C.R.U.S.H, if you are on a known distance range, otherwise you will need a range finder.

Sorry but what's C.R.U.S.H. stand for or mean? Thanks

 

[seansmd]

 

[mildot326]

Thanks, so I pulled the trigger on one, got the 5700 Elite with the Applied Ballistics and Link, one quick question though?
I've seen several pics and they don't seem to be all the same? so some have "ballistics" , "applied ballistics" and "elite"?
I know that the "ballistics" is the cheaper version, are some of the pics on websites dated?

Thanks

 

[seansmd]

if that is your description you are good to go, they sell some non-elite, and some non-link. All of the link and elite have the AB engine.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Thanks, so I pulled the trigger on one, got the 5700 Elite with the Applied Ballistics and Link, one quick question though?
I've seen several pics and they don't seem to be all the same? so some have "ballistics" , "applied ballistics" and "elite"?
I know that the "ballistics" is the cheaper version, are some of the pics on websites dated?

Thanks

If you got the 5700 elite w/link, you will have the highest tier with the most options available.

Applied ballistics w/access to custom curves, range card, target card, and will hold 30 rifle profiles on the device itself.

 

[mildot326]

Thanks troops, yes that's the model I purchased. I've been "schooling' myself via Youtube, lots to learn and it does, at first seem a bit intimidating, however I have a solid 100yrd zero and now understand the "truing" op. I'm guessing for the
MV truing 800yrd should be sufficient?

Right now with my Tikka Tac 3, using Federal 308 with a 168gr SMK BTHP, & a MV of 2729fps.

 

[seansmd]

@mildot326 Also there is a whole section on Ballistic solvers and dedicated support threads where Kestrel employees answer questions.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Thanks troops, yes that's the model I purchased. I've been "schooling' myself via Youtube, lots to learn and it does, at first seem a bit intimidating, however I have a solid 100yrd zero and now understand the "truing" op. I'm guessing for the
MV truing 800yrd should be sufficient?

Right now with my Tikka Tac 3, using Federal 308 with a 168gr SMK BTHP, & a MV of 2729fps.

If you are using the custom curve, yea, true MV at 800 and then verify at some random distances to make sure it all lines up.

If using g1/g7, true MV at 600 and then true BC at 800

 

[Rugster]

I personally don’t recommend trueing muzzle velocity. I would true using BC as long as your MV was taken with a reliable chrono (Labradar, Magnetospeed, etc).

 

[mildot326]

Thanks, I'm "subscribed" to the Kestrel channel, BTW what app do you download? there was 2, Kestrel LINK Ballistics & Kestrel LINK?

 

[mildot326]

I personally don’t recommend trueing muzzle velocity. I would true using BC as long as your MV was taken with a reliable chrono (Labradar, Magnetospeed, etc).

OK, yes I used the latter. We have a 100yrd indoor range, so getting a good zero is no problem.

 

[seansmd]

Thanks troops, yes that's the model I purchased. I've been "schooling' myself via Youtube, lots to learn and it does, at first seem a bit intimidating, however I have a solid 100yrd zero and now understand the "truing" op. I'm guessing for the
MV truing 800yrd should be sufficient?

Right now with my Tikka Tac 3, using Federal 308 with a 168gr SMK BTHP, & a MV of 2729fps.

If you have a solid 100y zero you want to confirm it is actually 100y and not trust the sign at the range, so either a long tape, or borrow someones LRF. You also want to verify your scope height over muzzle(plenty of thread son how to do that if you don't already have that).

Once you have that idealy you would calibrate the MV at 500-600 with either paper or someone on glass that can really verify vertical spread. Then adjust the MV in the kestrel until the suggested drop matches the adjusted mils you needed.

For example Kestrel said you should dial 3.2 mils at 550 yards, and you needed 3.1mils to be vertically centered to your POA, adjust the kestrel MV until it calls for 3.1mils.

Then if you can get out to 800-900 repeat the process but if you need to adjust, use the BC to adjust.

 

[seansmd]

@Dthomas3523 and my posts were crossing in the cloud, good advice, you NEED to true your MV, chrono are measuring devices and have error factors, your gun and the bullets don't lie. His advice on custom curve vs using BC is spot on.

 

[Rugster]

Most folks I know have gotten away from the custom curves. What Bullet are you shooting?

 

[mildot326]

Got it, I kinda did something like that last week shooting @ 500, used Strelok to get me close and I was off about a 1 MOA. I was using a Leupold Mark 4 3.5X10X40, excellent glass, but I feel I could use some more magnification. I picked up an EOtech VUDU 3.5X18, and it's MIL/MIL which I'm more familiar with.

Thanks for the advice, I'll take it

 

[seansmd]

I use the HD 140ELDM using the custom curve, after truing the MV@~500y is on money out to 1k which is the farthest I can go in my area.

 

[mildot326]

Most folks I know have gotten away from the custom curves. What Bullet are you shooting?

168gr SMK HPBT, it's Federal factory ammo

 

[seansmd]

Got it, I kinda did something like that last week shooting @ 500, used Strelok to get me close and I was off about a 1 MOA. I was using a Leupold Mark 4 3.5X10X40, excellent glass, but I feel I could use some more magnification. I picked up an EOtech VUDU 3.5X18, and it's MIL/MIL which I'm more familiar with.

Thanks for the advice, I'll take it

Not sure where you are at, there are some local threads on here as well down in the lists, I am sure someone local would be happy to help, I had the benefit from this or would have been hunting in the dark.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I personally don’t recommend trueing muzzle velocity. I would true using BC as long as your MV was taken with a reliable chrono (Labradar, Magnetospeed, etc).

If data lines up inside 600, then yes, no need to mess with MV.

However, if data does not line up 600 and in, trying BC will not have much affect on the data.

While in a perfect world, you can use the MV from a reliable source, ballistic calculators are not perfect. We don’t have the ability to change the algorithm/formulas, so we must change the only data points we can. Which is MV and/or BC depending on what you’re using.

 

[AbbyKatt]

Thanks, I'm "subscribed" to the Kestrel channel, BTW what app do you download? there was 2, Kestrel LINK Ballistics & Kestrel LINK?

You actually should download both. The Kestrel Link app works with set up type settings in the Kestrel. For example, you can rename your Kestrel there to something you'll recognize when you connect to it.

The Kestrel LINK Ballistics app is the one that controls and syncs up the gun profiles and will show your ballistic data from the Kestrel. The Kestrel LINK Ballistics app doesn't work unless your Kestrel is connected to it via Bluetooth.

 

[Rugster]

G1 BC vs G7 BC vs Bullet-Specific Drag Models

“In the past 4-5 years we’ve made quantum leaps when it comes to predicting bullet trajectories.” –...

precisionrifleblog.com

Here’s a recent article Cal put out. This is PRS specific but still holds water. You’re shooting a well known bullet and I think you’ll be surprised how easy that 1k impact will be since it sounds like you’re using good tools. Best of luck!

 

[Dthomas3523]

For example:

108 eldm factory 6cm ammo
3015 chrono speed
.260 g7

500 dope calls for 2.9 (2.85) but real world is 2.7.

You would only have to adjust your MV to 3085. But you’d have to adjust your BC to .325

So, in this case, trueing MV would be the correct answer.

You’d only he adjusting your MV by 2% which considering magneto is about 99%, and other factors such as human error and such, is well within reason.

 

[seansmd]

G1 BC vs G7 BC vs Bullet-Specific Drag Models

“In the past 4-5 years we’ve made quantum leaps when it comes to predicting bullet trajectories.” –...

precisionrifleblog.com

Here’s a recent article Cal put out. This is PRS specific but still holds water. You’re shooting a well known bullet and I think you’ll be surprised how easy that 1k impact will be since it sounds like you’re using good tools. Best of luck!

Good article thanks for sharing.

His results at the end on PRS shooters using G7 vs custom, I wonder how many who are using G7 that have custom curves available?

 

[Rugster]

For example:

108 eldm factory 6cm ammo
3015 chrono speed
.260 g7

500 dope calls for 2.9 (2.85) but real world is 2.7.

You would only have to adjust your MV to 3085. But you’d have to adjust your BC to .325

So, in this case, trying MV would be the correct answer.

I’ll keep my opinion to myself on 108’s lol. But I’ve seen that happen before and it’s usually for folks that zero their rifle at 100 yards. Not to go too far off on a tangent here but I don’t zero at 100 yards. I take a kestrel reading and get what it tells me my dope should be at 300 yards, usually between .9 and 1.1 depending on what I’m shooting. Then I shoot groups at 300 and slip my turret to that .9. You can’t really see the trends at 100 yards that you start seeing at 300-400. That has always served me very well and usually takes out the noise of needing to true at all. You just have to be ok with the possibility of being a tenth high or low at 100, which doesn’t matter to me for PRS as long as it tracks to 13-1400 which it always has.

 

[Rugster]

Most of the guys using G7, especially in the top 10 are running either 105 hybrids or 115 dtacs, both of which have custom curves.

 

[seansmd]

I’ll keep my opinion to myself on 108’s lol. But I’ve seen that happen before and it’s usually for folks that zero their rifle at 100 yards. Not to go too far off on a tangent here but I don’t zero at 100 yards. I take a kestrel reading and get what it tells me my dope should be at 300 yards, usually between .9 and 1.1 depending on what I’m shooting. Then I shoot groups at 300 and slip my turret to that .9. You can’t really see the trends at 100 yards that you start seeing at 300-400. That has always served me very well and usually takes out the noise of needing to true at all. You just have to be ok with the possibility of being a tenth high or low at 100, which doesn’t matter to me for PRS as long as it tracks to 13-1400 which it always has.

If you are zero'ing at 300 I can understand not needing to true MV, you are doing it as part of your zero process. I will leave the zero at 300 out of the discussion for now, that is your fight to fight.

To the original poster, zero at 100 and don't look back true at 500-600, and then see if you need to adjust BC or DSF (custom drag)

 

[Rugster]

Agreed, more like doping at 300 than zeroing. I think the OP will be surprised how close he is right off the bat. Cheers!

 

[Dthomas3523]

Agreed, more like doping at 300 than zeroing. I think the OP will be surprised how close he is right off the bat. Cheers!

If you’re dead on at 300, and not dead on at 100.......you are using a 300 yd zero with your turrets slipped to a zero offset at 100.

Totally different animal here.

If this is your method, I’d definitely make sure I put that in posts when you tell people not to true MV as it is quite important information.

 

[Rugster]

100 yard groups don’t really tell you the story of what’s going on. I’ve seen a lot of guys think they are zero’d at 100 (or as close as they can get) and then they are a click low at distance on paper. Even Satterlee has shown that he can get a charge weight that’s a full grain different to shoot well under a minute. 100 yard groups don’t tell you enough about what’s really happening. Just my opinion.

I also don’t have the attention span to shoot groups at 100. It’s so boring. I start to focus at distance, but that’s just me, can’t speak for everyone. Keep in mind I shooting PRS where tiny groups at 100 don’t mean much, the OP could be playing an entirely different game so I can’t speak to what’s important.

 

[Rugster]

If you’re dead on at 300, and not dead on at 100.......you are using a 300 yd zero with your turrets slipped to a zero offset at 100.

Totally different animal here.

If this is your method, I’d definitely make sure I put that in posts when you tell people not to true MV as it is quite important information.

Just to clarify, I’m not slipping to zero at 300. I’m slipping to the kestrel value, i.e. 1.0.

 

[Dthomas3523]

100 yard groups don’t really tell you the story of what’s going on. I’ve seen a lot of guys think they are zero’d at 100 (or as close as they can get) and then they are a click low at distance on paper. Even Satterlee has shown that he can get a charge weight that’s a full grain different to shoot well under a minute. 100 yard groups don’t tell you enough about what’s really happening. Just my opinion.

I also don’t have the attention span to shoot groups at 100. It’s so boring. I start to focus at distance, but that’s just me, can’t speak for everyone. Keep in mind I shooting PRS where tiny groups at 100 don’t mean much, the OP could be playing an entirely different game so I can’t speak to what’s important.

That’s all fine and well. Just mention that when you’re giving advice to anyone who is likely using 100yd zero when you’re not.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Just to clarify, I’m not slipping to zero at 300. I’m slipping to the kestrel value, i.e. 1.0.

Totally different than what 99% of people here are doing.

 

[Rugster]

I did, go back and read my post.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I did, go back and read my post.

No, you didn’t until later. Here’s your post telling him not to true MV without any context that you are manipulating the kestrel already

By slipping the turret to what the kestrel says it will be, you are tell the kestrel that you are at 100yd zero and that the 300yd dope is correct. When in fact, you may not be zero’d at 100yds. You are basically doing a reverse truing.

I’m not saying it doesn’t work, but you need to put things into context without someone having ask.

 

[Rugster]

I stand by that statement. Do not change a known value. Why would you want to add variables and even worse, work off of a BC that is likely to be wrong from the manufacturer depending on the speed you’re running, atmospherics, etc. You do what works for you amigo.

 

[mildot326]

Hey troops, thanks for the comments & advice,I appreciate it, makes getting "hands on" alot less intimidating. I'll be coming back to this thread with my results and more question. Stay Safe , Cheers

 

[mildot326]

Rugster, I get what your saying, question? when you shoot back to 100, are your turrets at zero or do they show a difference?
So the difference in the 100 to 300?

 

[Dthomas3523]

I stand by that statement. Do not change a known value. Why would you want to add variables and even worse, work off of a BC that is likely to be wrong from the manufacturer depending on the speed you’re running, atmospherics, etc. You do what works for you amigo.

Magneto advertises 99% accuracy. So it’s not always a known value. Also, take into account that we have not perfected the calculations on trajectory. So, while your value might be “known” the math isn’t perfect.

If the math/software/physics was perfected, companies wouldn’t be continually researching and revising.

So, while the velocity may be “known” and perfect, the software and math may not be. You’re looking at small picture and not big picture.

Also, you true the BC as well, so you’re not working off a value that is likely wrong.

Your method is manipulating the software the same as changing the MV. You just kept the MV the same and told the software it’s correct. But, by your own admission, it might me .1-.2 high or low. So, the software isn’t correct. You just lied to it and told it that it is correct.

Some of us choose to lie to the software about velocity. You’ve chosen to lie to the software in a different way.

 

[Rugster]

As I said a thousand times, I’m doing what works for me. You do you. Maybe you’re one of the top 10 shooters in the results link I posted? I am not, but my numbers are part of that data set.

 

[seansmd]

I stand by that statement. Do not change a known value. Why would you want to add variables and even worse, work off of a BC that is likely to be wrong from the manufacturer depending on the speed you’re running, atmospherics, etc. You do what works for you amigo.

If you zero @300 aren't you truing up any MV discrepancies form the chrono(there are errors it is not "known") and in effect truing MV?

 

[Rugster]

No because I’m using the velocity that the labradar gave me and that’s what’s driving the kestrel to give me my dope.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Rugster, I get what your saying, question? when you shoot back to 100, are your turrets at zero or do they show a difference?
So the difference in the 100 to 300?

They are at zero, but he may not hit dead center at 100.

He’s told the kestrel for example that 1.1 is the true dope for 300 yds. So, the kestrel assumes 100 dead center zero. But when he dials back to zero, he might be .1 or .2 high or low.

He’s basically doing the exact same thing as MV truing. He just decided to do it a different way.

But, say they set up Dave Preston’s 100yd kyl challenge or the atlas challenge, he won’t hit it by dialing to zero and aiming center of reticle at the center of the bullseye. (Unless the data actually does line up to zero and 300).