Kevlar Vests?

T

TheFish

Private
Minuteman
Jan 5, 2010
5
0
36
USA
#1
Right now I'm an armed guard on a fed contract and after what happen in Nevada this week with the guard getting killed in the courthouse and such and me finishing up my CJ degree next year to pursue a career in LE, Ive started to look into Kevlar vests. I don't need or really want anything with ceramic plates,(but possibly have the capability to in the future).

Any info and/or suggestions?

Thanks,
Rob
 
#3
Re: Kevlar Vests?

gangsta9.JPG
 
#4
Re: Kevlar Vests?

Your not going to wear a ceramic plate on duty. Get a "second chance" 2a or a "safariland". 2a is standard issue from most PD's Get a couple of carriers for the panels,so you have a wash and wear.
 
#6
Re: Kevlar Vests?

Remember, no armor is comfortable. Once its on you, it will suck and you will have to get use to it. NONE of them breath no matter what the manufacturer claims. Some of the carriers are mesh, but I have found it does not matter. There is a small weight savings in Level 2 but I dont notice a comfort difference. I have had three different IIIA vests over the last 15 years and wear them 40+ hours a week.

Like the Zylon scare several years ago, there is new info about failures of laminated products. Shop for vests that are all Kevlar or Tarwon. Google Gary Roberts for results about info on body armor.

Get more than 2 carriers right when you order it. If you wash them regularly, you will wear out two carriers long before the vest expires. Its a pain in the ass to have carriers made after the fact. The only good way is to send the vest back to have them made.
 
#7
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thefish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right now I'm an armed guard on a fed contract and after what happen in Nevada this week with the guard getting killed in the courthouse and such and me finishing up my CJ degree next year to pursue a career in LE, Ive started to look into Kevlar vests. I don't need or really want anything with ceramic plates,(but possibly have the capability to in the future).

Any info and/or suggestions?

Thanks,
Rob </div></div>

While it was a horrible event and by no means am I trying to excuse or minimize what happened, you need to look a bit deeper. The shooter had a long and significant sheet on him. If you are going to get your head wrapped around an axle over this...you might want to consider another profession.
 
#8
Re: Kevlar Vests?

from a comfort standpoint, I can't tell a difference when the plate is in the vest or out. From a survival standpoint, I wouldn't wear it without the plates. I don't know what you're guardin' but if you think the bad guys don't carry AK's in your neighborhood, think again.
John
 
#10
Re: Kevlar Vests?

If you feel the need to get a vest, by all means do. If I was manning a security checkpoint and dealing with the public every day in a Federal building, I might be inclined to wear one, definitely get a couple of carriers, also remember you might have to get some larger shirts or jackets to fit over it.
 
#11
Re: Kevlar Vests?

You could look into a pre-owned vest. If you go to work in a year you will probably be issued one anyway. Cheaper than dirt has second chance used vest. Some departments trade out after 5 years and I hate to admit it my vest lives in my trunk and is worn seldom.
 
#14
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dohnuts58</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how long are vests good for? mine has no "expiration date" so......</div></div>


if you keep sweat and direct sunlight, and dirt and grit and some petrochemicals and saltwater from the actual vest panels....they should hold their integrity forever.
 
#15
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thefish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right now I'm an armed guard on a fed contract and after what happen in Nevada this week with the guard getting killed in the courthouse and such and me finishing up my CJ degree next year to pursue a career in LE, Ive started to look into Kevlar vests. I don't need or really want anything with ceramic plates,(but possibly have the capability to in the future).

Any info and/or suggestions?

Thanks,
Rob </div></div>

While it was a horrible event and by no means am I trying to excuse or minimize what happened, you need to look a bit deeper. The shooter had a long and significant sheet on him. If you are going to get your head wrapped around an axle over this...you might want to consider another profession.</div></div>



Its not that I'm getting my head wrapped around an axle it just made me think alittle more about how important my life is. Also We've had some issues with disgruntled/ verbaly agressive employees that have now since been let go but still feel the need to attempt to show up on site sometimes...
 
#16
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dohnuts58</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how long are vests good for? mine has no "expiration date" so......</div></div>

if you keep sweat and direct sunlight, and dirt and grit and some petrochemicals and saltwater from the actual vest panels....they should hold their integrity forever. </div></div>

What he said.
Plus it depends on the material
Studies have found that it doesn't take much to compromise Zylon.
 
#17
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dohnuts58</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how long are vests good for? mine has no "expiration date" so...... </div></div>

Most manufactures warranties are five years.
 
#20
Re: Kevlar Vests?

I would get a IIIA vest, the difference in comfort is minimal and worth the extra protection. The "expiration" is when the manufacturer recommends retiring the vest, not necessarily when the vest becomes ineffective. As mentioned, the effectiveness/degradation is determined mostly be the material that is used and the conditions/abuse it was subjected to. Some break down faster and are more sensative to heat/moisture/etc than others. A well cared for vest that is 5 years old is probably still effective.
 
#21
Re: Kevlar Vests?

Agree with Boltripper. They are 'factory warrantied' for five years, but proper care will give them years more. If one sits in proper storage for five years with no use, it will be as NIB. If the user wears and cares for it, cleans it regularly, it will last beyond the manufacturer warranty. If one subjects it to daily wear in a place say like Afghanistan or Iraq, wellll, maybe a year or two at best then turn it in. All that dust, sweat, grime, and beating cannot be good for a Level V piece.
 
#23
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Acehigh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from a comfort standpoint, I can't tell a difference when the plate is in the vest or out. </div></div>

Not sure what kind of plates you are rocking, but the ceramic plates in my entry vest add 30-40 lbs. I can most definitely tell a difference in comfort. If you are talking about an itty-bitty trauma plate, then drive on, but Level III-IV will require that you eat your Wheaties.

To the OP, if you want a vest, check Galls. They have some reasonably priced stuff and also used vests. As above, manufacturers warranties are usually five years, but the vests last for quite some time. Most of use keep our old armor as backup/POV vests when we get our new stuff issued.

If you get a used vest, be careful of the source. Most of us treat our armor as the lifesaving device it is. Some don't.

When ordering new armor, make sure you are fitted by someone who knows what they are doing. Improperly fitted armor will be uncomfortable or not cover what it needs to.

Level IIA should be sufficient for anything you are doing that doesn't include willingly participating in a gunfight. If you are going to go looking for a fight, an entry vest with Level III or IV plates is the way to go, but eight hours in that may not kill you, but you will wish it did the next morning.

I am on my second Second Chance vest. I love them. It's lighter than my last with the same protective qualities. It is as flexible as anything else on the market and I really don't mind wearing it for fourty to fifty hours a week.
 
#24
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure what kind of plates you are rocking, but the ceramic plates in my entry vest add 30-40 lbs.</div></div>

15 or 20 pound EACH, WTF are you "rocking" in there? I have never seen a IV plate go over 10-11 pounds....
 
#25
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">15 or 20 pound EACH, WTF are you "rocking" in there? I have never seen a IV plate go over 10-11 pounds.... </div></div>
Sounds like AR500!
 
#26
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BULLET SPONGE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2a is standard issue from most PD's </div></div>

^^^Ignore this shit.^^^

IIIA is standard issue for every dept I know.

ABA, Safariland or Second Chance are all GTG.

Fabreeze is your friend. But, get a 2nd carrier.

And, wanna explain what 15-20 lb plates youre using?? Got me real curious.
 
#27
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">15 or 20 pound EACH, WTF are you "rocking" in there? I have never seen a IV plate go over 10-11 pounds.... </div></div>

I will have to get one out and weigh it. It's the large sized single curve ceramic LIV standalone. We are issued front and rear plates. These seem a he'll of a lot heavier than the "operator" cut, triple curve plates I use in my patrol rig.
 
#34
Re: Kevlar Vests?

I was issued a new entry vest (Protech Trimax, w/bicep and goin) at the same time as I installed the plates. I was coming from an old IIIA vest. The plates alone felt a hell of a lot heavier than what you guys are quoting, but it's entirely possible that it was mental. I still haven't gotten a chance to dig the plates out to weigh them. They are a pain to get in and out.
 
#35
Re: Kevlar Vests?

The worst plates that I ever saw (the ones my unit almost bought, go figure) were Level IV ProTech single curve, 10x12 rectangles. They were right at 10 pounds each. Our Paraclete RAVs with deltoids, collar, groin armor accessorizes and IIIA inserts were only about 14 pounds. Cops dont carry a loadout like troops, but rifle/pistol, flash bangs, gas mask, cuffs, radio etc do add up.

I had my own plates (go figure) that were only about 6.5 pounds each. My RAV and plates, without ammo etc, only weighed 2 pounds more than the 10 year old vest that it replaced.
 
#36
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pat4668</div><div class="ubbcode-body">try dragonskin from what ive been told they make vest for under the uniform and tactical vest that withstand grenades </div></div>

Dragonskin failed the Army's tests which is why we aren't using it. They also made a few false claims.
 
#37
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The worst plates that I ever saw (the ones my unit almost bought, go figure) were Level IV ProTech single curve, 10x12 rectangles. They were right at 10 pounds each. </div></div>

Those are the plates we are issued. They are quite a bit heavier than the Operator Cut, triple curve CPC plates I bought for my active shooter rig.
 
#41
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cops dont carry a loadout like troops, but rifle/pistol, flash bangs, gas mask, cuffs, radio etc do add up.</div></div>

I weighed my duty belt once and it weighed almost twenty pounds.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would get a IIIA vest, the difference in comfort is minimal and worth the extra protection.</div></div>

The most important factor in comfort is the correct fit. I started with a IIIA vest which correctly fit me and was very comfortable. It was replaced with a level II vest which, even though it's lighter and more flexible than the IIIA vest, is very uncomfortable due to it not fitting as well.
 
#42
Re: Kevlar Vests?

Lone Wolf,
What the hell u wearin'?
Mine is a level iiia with a 8 x 10 steel plate in front. The whole vest probably weighs 8-10 #'s. In full uniform, duty belt, boots and all, I weigh 26 #'s more than street clothes. My comment on comfort was not in the context of heat and mobility it referred to whether the plate was in it or not. The damn things are heavy, hot and limit my mobility to a degree but not near as much as a body bag.
JH
 
#43
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Acehigh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lone Wolf,
What the hell u wearin'?</div></div>

Well I got a chance to revisit this. I am breaking my plates out because I have to check my vest in my luggage and the baggage monkeys would shatter a plate like nothing.

My entry armor is a Protech Trimax with bicep neck and groin panels. It's a Level IIIA in standard trim, but we also add front and rear 10x12" single curve plates.

Since I had the plates out I weighed them. They are 8 pounds each.

Now also remember that when I put this obnoxious thing on I also have at least 60 rounds of .223, 26 rounds of .45 ACP, gas mask, IFAK, and whatever else I jammed in the pockets before I dashed from the car.

So i weigh a tad bit more geared up. Then add my helmet, duty belt, sidearm and M4 to the mix and you can see that it's a bit to hump around.

Now in my regular patrol rig with a Level IIA vest and sidearm I only add about 30lbs to my birthday suit.
 
#44
Re: Kevlar Vests?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kilosierra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Triad said:
Cops dont carry a loadout like troops, but rifle/pistol, flash bangs, gas mask, cuffs, radio etc do add up.</div></div>

I weighed my duty belt once and it weighed almost twenty pounds.

Mine is 30 lbs.
Click to expand...
 
#46
Re: Kevlar Vests?

1. Dragonskin is terrible. They lost their NIJ rating and faked their own tests. And they have about a 1 month break in period. Stiff as hell and you have to wear them all the time to get them to bend. Also, they cost around 4 grand.
2. For vests, second chance, safariland, aba, pointblank, you can ask the cops on here for what they like. Pretty much if it's rated for IIIA you will be good. And like everything out there, soft armor does have an expiration. Even storing it in a cool dry place takes away life. The kevlar weave loses strength over time. Granted it may be 10 years but it does lose life. Daily use, I would switch after 3-5 years. What's your life to 300 bucks?
3. Level IVA Ceramic ESAPI Plates with 10 hit AP rating size Large weigh 12 lbs each. Side plates 6x6 weigh 6 pounds each. Ceradyne, or Armorworks gets my vote in this case. Tried and true by today's military and alot of others. Cost is about 600-1200 depending on size and rating. And never buy used. You don't know if the OP dropped them or what he did to them. Again, is your life worth taking the chance on used armor?
 
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