Suppressors KGM R30 vs Area 419 Maverick.

[5RWill]

Been really looking at the Maverick again. I haven't competed in a minute but I always vastly preferred shooting with a can versus brake, recoil impulse be damned. Came upon KGM via the group buy, though had heard about them before. I'm sure that the Maverick for it's intended purpose has more recoil reduction. I'm just curious though has anyone used the APEC port system from KGM and the maverick? I'd love to hear commentary on how they compare.

 

[Clayman]

No comparison experience between them but here are some cool shots of the R30 from Holtworks.

 

[lennyo3034]

Just tested KGM R6 with Maverick and TBAC Ultra 7 (30 cal).

All shooting off barricade with 20lb Dasher.Maverick was in match configuration WITH the extra baffle.

Maverick's vertical deflection after shot was approximately 5 mils.

KGM's vertical deflection after shot was approximately 7 mils.

TBAC vertical deflection was around 10mils.

KGM and TBAC sounded about the same at the ear with just plugs. Maybe KGM a little louder. Maverick noticeably louder than the other two, as expected.

For matches, I would still choose the Maverick.

 

[5RWill]

I’ll probably get both at a time or two. I think right now considering the price of the maverick i can have two KGMs nearly id want to get an R30 for the 7SS and a R6.5 for everything else.

Though admittedly if i can load my 7 SS i can see pretty decently through the recoil impulse. But that’s usually just prone

 

[cgobeli]

You could also check out the Fusion Suppressor from River City Rifles, it allows you to mount a brake of your choice at the end of the suppressor.

Custom Firearms | Rivercity Rifle LLC

Rivercity Rifle is a Type 07 FFL & Class 02 SOT specializing in Precision Rifle training, barrel chambering, customization and assembly of performance firearms for competition, hunting or recreation.

www.rivercityrifle.com

 

[Gtscotty]

Don't know how it would compare to the two you mentioned recoil reduction wise, but another option might be a Nomad with the E-Brake mounted. I can certainly tell a difference with the E-Brake on and off my 6GT, although I've been meaning to try it with something heavier recoiling to see if it has even more of an effect.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

All shooting off barricade with 20lb Dasher.Maverick was in match configuration WITH the extra baffle.

Maverick's vertical deflection after shot was approximately 5 mils.

I'll add that I can tell a significant difference with my 6GT and my Maverick when using the extra baffle vs without. My Maverick/GT is right on the edge of hearing safe with the extra baffle, but at the cost of more felt recoil and more movement off target compared to without. I run it without the baffle for matches.

 

[JaoeyP]

So I haven't tested the Maverick but I did get an opportunity to try KGMs R6.5 and R30 off of a few barricades vs my Hawkins Tank muzzle brake- I couldn't tell a significant difference in muzzle rise/flip between the 3 when I closed 3-5 of the bottom APEC ports on the KGMs.

For sure the KGMs are an excellent choice if you want to run a silencer and get good recoil control.

 

[Yoteski]

In for more comparisons. It would be great to see a direct comparison on a sled or something against a brake and a regular suppressor. I'm very interested in one of these, but would like to see some hard data on actual recoil reduction.

 

[kthomas]

I guess it depends on what you value most.

If it's mitigating muzzle rise over suppression, than that would be the A419 in it's shortest configuration.

If you want decent suppression, than it's probably the KGM.

Physics is physics. What makes a suppressor so effective at reducing noise is counter to what a muzzle brake does. A muzzle brake redirects gases quickly at an angle perpendicular or greater for optimal recoil reduction. Suppressors use a series of baffles in a large volume container to slow down the gases to optimize suppression.

You can't do both equally well. You have to compromise on recoil/muzzle rise or suppression.

That said, I haven't shot either suppressor, so take this comment for what it's worth and what you paid for it. If it was me, I would get the KGM. The Maverick is too niche for me. But I also don't think the recoil impulse of a suppressor is that detrimental at all when you have good fundamentals.

 

[Yoteski]

I completely agree on fundamentals. There's just positions I find myself in at matches where I can't execute perfect fundamentals and my Ultra 7 will let me know. I'm more curious what an estimated percentage of recoil reduction over, say my TBAC Ultra 7 would equate to. If it was 10% I don't think the investment would be worth it. If it was 20%, I'm definitely taking a hard look.

 

[kthomas]

I completely agree on fundamentals. There's just positions I find myself in at matches where I can't execute perfect fundamentals and my Ultra 7 will let me know. I'm more curious what an estimated percentage of recoil reduction over, say my TBAC Ultra 7 would equate to. If it was 10% I don't think the investment would be worth it. If it was 20%, I'm definitely taking a hard look.

I wish I had numbers for you on that, I don't.

Unfortunately any analysis/comparison you are going to get will be pretty subjective and lacking in actual quantifiable metrics.

If someone/some entity has done quality and objective testing on this, I would also be very interested in seeing it.

I know @lowlight has experience with the KGM suppressors and their APEC system. Perhaps he can provide his comparison between a TBAC Ultra 7 and KGM for recoil mitigation.

 

[Yoteski]

I wish I had numbers for you on that, I don't.

Unfortunately any analysis/comparison you are going to get will be pretty subjective and lacking in actual quantifiable metrics.

If someone/some entity has done quality and objective testing on this, I would also be very interested in seeing it.

I know @lowlight has experience with the KGM suppressors and their APEC system. Perhaps he can provide his comparison between a TBAC Ultra 7 and KGM for recoil mitigation.

I'd be interested in a side by side review from @lowlight, especially on the same rifle. Even if the results are subjective, his opinion would be very valued.

 

[Lowlight]

TBAC vs KGM

They are both pretty similar, however the KGM System does work, as you can see in this image

As you can see, the sand shows the pattern from the ports. You can definitely tune the KGM to recoil how you want, within it's limitations of course.

Precision Rifle wise, the TBAC is definitely a Gold Standard in terms of overall performance. You will never lose with a TBAC. If you want to tune their recoil you have to pick the right can, like the smaller ones for a faster pulse, or the Dominus for the same.

Little shorter, little fatter, that is winning the recoil game

 

[_Windrider_]

TBAC vs KGM

They are both pretty similar, however the KGM System does work, as you can see in this image

View attachment 7875723

As you can see, the sand shows the pattern from the ports. You can definitely tune the KGM to recoil how you want, within it's limitations of course.

Precision Rifle wise, the TBAC is definitely a Gold Standard in terms of overall performance. You will never lose with a TBAC. If you want to tune their recoil you have to pick the right can, like the smaller ones for a faster pulse, or the Dominus for the same.

Little shorter, little fatter, that is winning the recoil game

I have an ultra 7 and an R30K. I run the ultra on my bolt guns exclusively now and have the KGM married to my 260 gasser. It’s a match made in heaven. I would pick thunderbeast over anything. But that’s just me. But I’ll tell you I love that R30K on my gas gun.

 

[Long Range 338]

I usually prefer a 30 cal can over a caliber specific can but comparing the KGM R30 and R65 on 6.5CM and 6.5PRC I was super impressed with that little 6.5 suppressor. The KGM works and works well.

 

[just browsing]

For me the modularity of the Maverick is what makes it worthwhile over any alternative.

As has been mentioned, you really have to pick what you’re after. Recoil mitigation and sound suppression drive in opposite directions, so finding the ideal middle ground is going to be different for everyone.

Personally I like to run mine with the extra baffle in matches. It knocks the concussion down to “regular” suppressor levels, and to be honest I can’t tell much difference in terms of felt recoil between the 5.5” and 6.6” lengths. Both configurations offer noticeably better muzzle control vs. my TBAC, Omega, and other cans, and both are obviously MUCH more pleasant to shoot than a brake. But just because that’s what I like doesn’t mean the next guy will feel the same.

With that said, I do like having the option to go longer or shorter in configuration depending on what I’m doing. For example, I run it without the extra baffle on my .223. The sound/concussion is pleasant in the shortest configuration, and it also allows the brake to be more effective with the smaller case volume.

I don’t own the KGM, but I’ve shot them a number of times so take my experience fwiw… I have not been super impressed with any that I’ve tried. They had a nice tone to them, especially considering their size, and the tuning feature is a good concept. I just couldn’t tell any difference between them and the Ultras/Omega I was comparing them to, and certainly nowhere close to the Maverick in terms of recoil control.

Call it bias, or maybe I’ve been ruined having run the Maverick for the better part of 3 years now. I just don’t think there’s anything else that compares.

 

[Yoteski]

For me the modularity of the Maverick is what makes it worthwhile over any alternative.

As has been mentioned, you really have to pick what you’re after. Recoil mitigation and sound suppression drive in opposite directions, so finding the ideal middle ground is going to be different for everyone.

Personally I like to run mine with the extra baffle in matches. It knocks the concussion down to “regular” suppressor levels, and to be honest I can’t tell much difference in terms of felt recoil between the 5.5” and 6.6” lengths. Both configurations offer noticeably better muzzle control vs. my TBAC, Omega, and other cans, and both are obviously MUCH more pleasant to shoot than a brake. But just because that’s what I like doesn’t mean the next guy will feel the same.

With that said, I do like having the option to go longer or shorter in configuration depending on what I’m doing. For example, I run it without the extra baffle on my .223. The sound/concussion is pleasant in the shortest configuration, and it also allows the brake to be more effective with the smaller case volume.

I don’t own the KGM, but I’ve shot them a number of times so take my experience fwiw… I have not been super impressed with any that I’ve tried. They had a nice tone to them, especially considering their size, and the tuning feature is a good concept. I just couldn’t tell any difference between them and the Ultras/Omega I was comparing them to, and certainly nowhere close to the Maverick in terms of recoil control.

Call it bias, or maybe I’ve been ruined having run the Maverick for the better part of 3 years now. I just don’t think there’s anything else that compares.

Great review. I think saving up for the Maverick might be in my future. I'm not chasing ultimate suppression, I have other cans for that already. I just want to cut down recoil to a minimum without having the concussion of a brake. I shot around a bunch of brakes this last weekend and it gave me a pounding headache like usual. For whatever reason, I'm very sensitive to the blast from brakes. I think it's the pressure they cause; gives me serious headaches. The sound doesn't bother me, so much as the pressure. I was around a Maverick at one match, and it was very nice compared to a normal brake.

 

[FuhQ]

The local range received a KGM R30K for a customer while I was up at the range this afternoon after work. Very nice unit. That was the first time I'd handled one of the new KGM cans. Seemed very high quality, and the fit and finish were impressive.

 

[Bugholes]

I stopped dealing in class 3 stuff several years ago. After demoing the KGM stuff , and comparing it to industry leading suppressors, I got back in the game. KGM is the real deal and worth looking at

 

[GBMaryland]

Just to add to this dead thread:

I got my KGM R30K, Able Biscuit (30), and TBAC Ultra9 (6.5) from the Tax Man in the last few months.

Yesterday I was able to take them out and run them through some ammo tests.

The ES and SD (as well as velocities) we’re pretty much exactly the same. So no differences between the three suppressors…

It was interesting to note that the POI shift on the KGM R30K was less than the TBAC. (though they all shifted the pattern versus a simple muzzle brake down by .25-.5 mil)

I set the KGM up so that it has the top four ports open and the bottom four ports closed. Assuming that this might keep whatever slight amount of jump from happening.

Without a doubt the thunder beast does a better job in noise suppression in general. (it’s also a 6.5 can, as opposed to the other two which are 30 caliber cans so you can take that with a grain of salt)

I didn’t notice any statistically relevant differences between the cans…

Target is with the TBAC 9, 10 rounds. Seems my 1:7.5 Bartlein likes 142 SMKs… the other ammo I tested not as much.

I didn’t get a KGM picture, but the SDs with the R30K we the same as the other two.

 

[kthomas]

Just to add to this dead thread:

I got my KGM R30K, Able Biscuit (30), and TBAC Ultra9 (6.5) from the Tax Man in the last few months.

Yesterday I was able to take them out and run them through some ammo tests.

The ES and SD (as well as velocities) we’re pretty much exactly the same. So no differences between the three suppressors…

It was interesting to note that the POI shift on the KGM R30K was less than the TBAC. (though they all shifted the pattern versus a simple muzzle brake down by .25-.5 mil)

I set the KGM up so that it has the top four ports open and the bottom four ports closed. Assuming that this might keep whatever slight amount of jump from happening.

Without a doubt the thunder beast does a better job in noise suppression in general. (it’s also a 6.5 can, as opposed to the other two which are 30 caliber cans so you can take that with a grain of salt)

I didn’t notice any statistically relevant differences between the cans…

Target is with the TBAC 9, 10 rounds. Seems my 1:7.5 Bartlein likes 142 SMKs… the other ammo I tested not as much.

I didn’t get a KGM picture, but the SDs with the R30K we the same as the other two.

Not a surprise that the 9" can was quieter than the ~5" ones.

What are your thoughts on the Biscuit? My approval just came today for mine, so I'll be picking it up soon. Specifically I'm curious about how the Biscuit compares to the other suppressors as far as recoil goes.

 

[Long Range 338]

Just to add to this dead thread:

I got my KGM R30K, Able Biscuit (30), and TBAC Ultra9 (6.5) from the Tax Man in the last few months.

Yesterday I was able to take them out and run them through some ammo tests.

The ES and SD (as well as velocities) we’re pretty much exactly the same. So no differences between the three suppressors…

It was interesting to note that the POI shift on the KGM R30K was less than the TBAC. (though they all shifted the pattern versus a simple muzzle brake down by .25-.5 mil)

I set the KGM up so that it has the top four ports open and the bottom four ports closed. Assuming that this might keep whatever slight amount of jump from happening.

Without a doubt the thunder beast does a better job in noise suppression in general. (it’s also a 6.5 can, as opposed to the other two which are 30 caliber cans so you can take that with a grain of salt)

I didn’t notice any statistically relevant differences between the cans…

Target is with the TBAC 9, 10 rounds. Seems my 1:7.5 Bartlein likes 142 SMKs… the other ammo I tested not as much.

I didn’t get a KGM picture, but the SDs with the R30K we the same as the other two.

Not sure comparing a suppressor that is ported against one that isn't is a fair comparison sound wise. If that is how you would use it then I guess it would be valid to your own use case.

Honestly I can't believe how good that little 6.5 can from KGM sounds, its rapidly becoming one of my favorites.

 

[cgobeli]

Just to add to this dead thread:

I got my KGM R30K, Able Biscuit (30), and TBAC Ultra9 (6.5) from the Tax Man in the last few months.

Yesterday I was able to take them out and run them through some ammo tests.

The ES and SD (as well as velocities) we’re pretty much exactly the same. So no differences between the three suppressors…

It was interesting to note that the POI shift on the KGM R30K was less than the TBAC. (though they all shifted the pattern versus a simple muzzle brake down by .25-.5 mil)

I set the KGM up so that it has the top four ports open and the bottom four ports closed. Assuming that this might keep whatever slight amount of jump from happening.

Without a doubt the thunder beast does a better job in noise suppression in general. (it’s also a 6.5 can, as opposed to the other two which are 30 caliber cans so you can take that with a grain of salt)

I didn’t notice any statistically relevant differences between the cans…

Target is with the TBAC 9, 10 rounds. Seems my 1:7.5 Bartlein likes 142 SMKs… the other ammo I tested not as much.

I didn’t get a KGM picture, but the SDs with the R30K we the same as the other two.

Is there any noticeable difference in muzzle rise between the two cans?

 

[GBMaryland]

1) first there was no noticeable muzzle rise on any of those suppressors. I was able to stay in the gun looking through the scope without having to do anything to keep myself there. In general I was feeling it in my shoulder but that’s because I haven’t been doing a lot of rifle shooting in the pad on my rifle is pretty solid.

2) funny enough there’s a fair amount of difference between the ultra9 and the biscuit/R30k In length. However, the Ultra9 is very skinny even if it is 9 inches long… however the difference would appear to be roughly 30% between the Ultra9 and the other two suppressors in capacity. Of course, that assumes that all the baffling technologies are exactly the same and therefore the internal volume would be taken up exactly the same way…. Which is unlikely to be the case.

3) yep, the R30K is pretty good… it’s light, it works as least as well as a 2 30 cal YHM phantoms I have, and it’s probably quieter. no doubt about it the Ultra9 is definitely the quietest one there by at least a few dB.

4) The biscuit is insanely well-made and heavy enough that if you can’t shoot somebody you can beat the shit out of them with it! Conversely the Ultra9 and the KGM R30k is light and made out of titanium… so there are trade-offs.

Honestly, you couldn’t go wrong buying any of those three suppressors. Compared to my very old YHM phantoms that use a proprietary quick mount system, these three suppressors represent the some of best of what’s currently available.

5) What I’m looking forward to testing next is the ability of my AR 10 to operate without having to adjust the gas block. The KGM R30K seems purpose built for that specific issue. More to the point: typically when I shoot through my A.R. 10 with a suppressor I end up with a very dirty gun. It would really be nice to see you at my LMT MWS can do without changing the gas block and if the gun gets as insanely dirty.