L42A1 & Enforcer reloading

[RWSGunsmithing]

So I'm sure some will ask why did I post this here and not the reloading section. Simple a lot guys don't visit the reloading section.

Besides this has more to do with vintage sniper rifles than reloading in general.

Anyone have a good safe, low pressure load using the 150-155gr bthp bullets?

 

[Lange Carabine]

I mostly shoot RG surplus in mine but worked up a couple 150gr loads for hunting with IMR 4895, 4064 and RE-15 in LC brass with 150gr Hornady and Sierra bullets.
The load I settled with was 42.6gr IMR 4895 under a 150gr HRN spire point. IIRC this load is under 50k psi max, as were the other two powders but I dont recall the charge weight.
They were the starting load or an increment above using data from the hodgdon website.
There is a thread on this subject at milsurps in the Lee Enfield forum as well.
It's a year or so old by now so it might take a little digging to find it, but well worth the effort, IMO.

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

I think I know what one your talking about. It talks more about ammo than specific reloads .

 

[longebow]

Here is my refined load for the L42A1:

Sierra 155 grain MK (#2155)
LC Match Brass (case weight 179.5 grains), match-prepped
VV N140, 46.0 grains
Fed M210 primer
Loaded OAL 2.80" to feed through magazine

Average velocity was 2785 fps, 85 degrees

This may not be a "light load" but I used the OCW system to develop this load. YMMV.

Hope this helps.

longebow

 

[Random Guy]

Sierra 155 grain MK (#2155)
LC Match Brass (case weight 179.5 grains), match-prepped
VV N140, 46.0 grains

The VihtaVuori Reloading Manual (4th Edition) lists that bullet and powder with the following minimum and maximum charge weights:
155 Sierra BTHP @ 2.795" COAL:
37.0 grains of N140 = 2354 fps
44.2 grains of N140 = 2712 fps.

Maybe it's safe in your rifle - but your load is well over max per the maker of that powder...its really the middle of a 30-06 charge weight - just an fyi.
I think 40-42 grains is a "good, safe, low pressure" round per the OP question re medium burn rate powders with 150-155 grain bullets.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Hmmm... What about the pressure signs of this 46 gr N140-Load ? Thanks.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Loading manuals these days are definitely conservative… I always compare loads from my “newest 2021” manual with my older manuals from the ‘70’s and ‘80’s… not to use a higher number, but to get an idea of how much margin for error there is…. Or how much the loads are being restrained for liability.

46 grains is definitely high based on current manual. But might have been below max a few years ago when load was developed.

That said… my rule is to always go on “latest” data.

So 46 might not show any signs at all. It might have been half a grain below max just a few years ago. But it’s not a conservative load by any stretch!

Using latest recommended conservative numbers with a vintage gun is good practice. In fact, the only safe practice.

With a modern gun and modern materials, etc. the experienced hand loader can get some good information from older manuals if they are cautious and want to work up performance loads.

But as always, use caution with anything approaching max loads. It doesn’t take much to go over and pressure is unforgiving!

Sirhr

 

[dino67]

L42A1..Still impressive today!

I have a Mint "Unfired" L42A1 , recently i have been shooting my Enfield No4T,s and very much enjoying the experience. I decided it was time to try the L42 as i had always heard they had a superb reputation for accuracy. Last weekend i started some load development using various Seirra match...

www.milsurps.com

 

[dino67]

Old Aussie fullbore rifle. I'm using 150.5gr Berger Fullbore projectiles, lapua brass, RL15 powder. I'll find charge weight and COAL details later. I recall it being within a few grains of starting loads. It will shoot consistent 3/4 moa groups at the largest, sometimes will shoot 1/2. Rear locking Enfield actions are definitely at their best with milder loads.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Loading manuals these days are definitely conservative… I always compare loads from my “newest 2021” manual with my older manuals from the ‘70’s and ‘80’s… not to use a higher number, but to get an idea of how much margin for error there is…. Or how much the loads are being restrained for liability.

46 grains is definitely high based on current manual. But might have been below max a few years ago when load was developed.

That said… my rule is to always go on “latest” data.

So 46 might not show any signs at all. It might have been half a grain below max just a few years ago. But it’s not a conservative load by any stretch!

Using latest recommended conservative numbers with a vintage gun is good practice. In fact, the only safe practice.

With a modern gun and modern materials, etc. the experienced hand loader can get some good information from older manuals if they are cautious and want to work up performance loads.

But as always, use caution with anything approaching max loads. It doesn’t take much to go over and pressure is unforgiving!

Sirhr

That sounds good. Convincing, stringent. There is a development in load data, oh yes. True.. . Not always simple to analyze... . Caution is the Mother of the porcelain-box, we say

If reloading is not possible, this Federal GM seems to be the 1th choice of many shooters.. . An often available round, by the way.

 

[BigKev72]

42.4 gr 4064 with 150gr was a good load for mine.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

42,4 gr 4064 mit 150 gr war eine gute Beladung für meine.

Ja, welches Projektil ist dann vor dieser Ladung ?

 

[BigKev72]

Ja, welches Projektil ist dann vor dieser Ladung ?

Various. I shot pretty much every 150gr projectile I could lay my hands on. And some 147gr military ball too. The 147gr ball usually shot better than the 150’s if I’m honest.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Various. I shot pretty much every 150gr projectile I could lay my hands on. And some 147gr military ball too. The 147gr ball usually shot better than the 150’s if I’m honest.

Yes, I see.. Okay...
What about the Sierra Matchking-Loads with 150 grs perhaps 155 grs ? Their accuracy especially...

I heard a commercial reloader recommended the rather new 150 grs Barnes Matchburner-Bullet in this relation - I don't have a L42 A1. Unfortunately, yes.. . A expensive handload.. .

 

[BigKev72]

Yes, I see.. Okay...
What about the Sierra Matchking-Loads with 150 grs perhaps 155 grs ? Their accuracy especially...

I heard a commercial reloader recommended the rather new 150 grs Barnes Matchburner-Bullet in this relation - I don't have a L42 A1. Unfortunately, yes.. . A expensive handload.. .

I am currently using 155gr TMK’s over the same charge and they shoot very well out of several .308 rifles.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

The newer 155 gr Tipped Sierra Matchking, yes... Good. I see.

And what about the often preferred 168 gr Match-Loads ? Be it an Factory- or a Handload. By the way..
It seems that they - and here especially the Sierra MK - shoot exceptionally accurate in all rifles... ?!

 

[BigKev72]

I have used the 168gr smks and the 168gr a-max, but find they do better with 8208xbr propellant. Don’t shoot much 168gr stuff though, you may be better off waiting for someone with more knowledge to chime in.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

I have had very good groups with
168gr ELD Match.
41.3 gr of AR2206H/4895
COL of 2.800

That's with a NO.4 tested action, and 5 groove heavy barrel.
It was going to be my L42A1 clone, but I picked up a mint action and two 4 gròove barrels for that project.

It drops feral cattle and camels like a row of shitcans.

I have total confidence in it's accuracy.

No signs of pressure, or dreaded pings and vibrations, on firing.

The book says it's borderline hot, but going on the test till destruction loads done at Enfield, should be fine.
I'm the only one using it, so it's all on me.

 

[TorF]

And what about the often preferred 168 gr Match-Loads ? Be it an Factory- or a Handload. By the way..
It seems that they - and here especially the Sierra MK - shoot exceptionally accurate in all rifles... ?!

45gr VV N150 behind a Lapua 168gr Scenar.
This is the load that set the first perfect score in ISSF 300m 60 shots prone. 600/600p in the 1991World Championchip in Moscow.
After 59 shots and 590 points the shooter, Harald Stenvaag, adjusted his rear sight two clicks "up" and shot a 10.0 at 6 o'clock to score 600p.. (10.9 is a perfect X)

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Ich hatte sehr gute Gruppen mit
168gr ELD-Match.
41,3 g AR2206H/4895
COL von 2.800

Das ist mit einer getesteten Aktion Nr. 4 und einem schweren Lauf mit 5 Rillen.
Es sollte mein L42A1-Klon werden, aber ich habe für dieses Projekt eine Mint-Aktion und zwei 4-Groove-Fässer gekauft.

Es lässt wildes Vieh und Kamele gefallen wie eine Reihe von Shitcans.

Ich habe volles Vertrauen in die Genauigkeit.

Keine Anzeichen von Druck oder gefürchteten Pings und Vibrationen beim Schießen.

Das Buch sagt, dass es grenzwertig ist, aber den Test zu machen, bis sterben Zerstörungsladungen in Enfield erledigt sind, sollte in Ordnung sein.
Ich bin der einzige, der es benutzt, auch liegt alles an mir.

T tönt sehr interessant 41,3 gr AR 2206H... Noch nie gesehen.. Wer stellt dieses Pulver her?

Schwerer Lauf, Nr.4-Aktion, tönt spannend. Was für ein Lauffabrikat, Lauflänge mag's sein ?

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

T tönt sehr interessant 41,3 gr AR 2206H... Noch nie gesehen.. Wer stellt dieses Pulver her?

Schwerer Lauf, Nr.4-Aktion, tönt spannend. Was für ein Lauffabrikat, Lauflänge mag's sein ?

The here in Australia is ADI 2206H.
In America it's sold I believe under Hodgson 4895.
Ironic that a majority of our powder is exported.

 

[ChrisF308]

No , thats not ironic , whats ironic is its forbidden in UK/Europe , they use to be able to get it , no longer .

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

No , thats not ironic , whats ironic is its forbidden in UK/Europe , they use to be able to get it , no longer .

You're right.
That's fucked.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

The here in Australia is ADI 2206H.
In America it's sold I believe under Hodgson 4895.
Ironic that a majority of our powder is exported.

The powder question is not longer one, it's clear.. Hodgson 4895, ok... Forbidden in Europe: why ?!.. What's going on here ?..

And which barrel type, please ?
Thanks.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

45gr VV N150 behind a Lapua 168gr Scenar.
This is the load that set the first perfect score in ISSF 300m 60 shots prone. 600/600p in the 1991World Championchip in Moscow.
After 59 shots and 590 points the shooter, Harald Stenvaag, adjusted his rear sight two clicks "up" and shot a 10.0 at 6 o'clock to score 600p.. (10.9 is a perfect X)

Thats's really interesting info. The 1991 Championship in Moscow, the ISSF 300 m-Match. Harald Steenvag, where did I read this name before ? A member of the Lapua Team.. ?

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

45gr VV N150 behind a Lapua 168gr Scenar.
This is the load that set the first perfect score in ISSF 300m 60 shots prone. 600/600p in the 1991World Championchip in Moscow.
After 59 shots and 590 points the shooter, Harald Stenvaag, adjusted his rear sight two clicks "up" and shot a 10.0 at 6 o'clock to score 600p.. (10.9 is a perfect X)

What type of rifle did Harald Stenvaag use then in Moscow ?...

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

T tönt sehr interessant 41,3 gr AR 2206H... Noch nie gesehen.. Wer stellt dieses Pulver her?

Schwerer Lauf, Nr.4-Aktion, tönt spannend. Was für ein Lauffabrikat, Lauflänge mag's sein ?

Powder charge: for H4895 is at the Hodgdon-Site a maximum of 43,5 gr listed. For 168 grs-Bullets in general, but despite that.. ? Which book contents the information this load is"near the maximum" ?.. .

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

45gr VV N150 behind a Lapua 168gr Scenar.
This is the load that set the first perfect score in ISSF 300m 60 shots prone. 600/600p in the 1991World Championchip in Moscow.
After 59 shots and 590 points the shooter, Harald Stenvaag, adjusted his rear sight two clicks "up" and shot a 10.0 at 6 o'clock to score 600p.. (10.9 is a perfect X)

Happy new year to all !

45 grain of N150 behind Lapua Scenar 168 gr seems to be a powerful load. Especially in the L42 A1- Enfield-Rifle.. Perhaps even the maximum.. ?

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

I have had very good groups with
168gr ELD Match.
41.3 gr of AR2206H/4895
COL of 2.800

That's with a NO.4 tested action, and 5 groove heavy barrel.
It was going to be my L42A1 clone, but I picked up a mint action and two 4 gròove barrels for that project.

It drops feral cattle and camels like a row of shitcans.

I have total confidence in it's accuracy.

No signs of pressure, or dreaded pings and vibrations, on firing.

The book says it's borderline hot, but going on the test till destruction loads done at Enfield, should be fine.
I'm the only one using it, so it's all on me.

Hmm... Very good groups means ? At which distance ?..

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

10 rounds at 500 metres.
35°C , facing into 0-5 km wind.
Took my time between shots.
Thought I had made up more rounds than that.
From prone and bag.
Had a spotter, and really missed my modern scope.....

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Wow !
Now That's a great group ! 10 Shots at 500 yards
Which scope/which reticle and type of mount is it, please ?

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Wow !
Now That's a great group ! 10 Shots at 500 yards
Which scope/which reticle and type of mount is it, please ?

That's with the RSM replica scope and mounts.
Surprised me, and my mate.
I've been working up to that group, put about 70 rounds through my L42A1 clone to get to that, with a handload.
Very happy with it.
A bit of nostalgia, they decommissioned the L42A1 not long after I finished a course with it.
The AI was a huge leap from Ellie, but I love that Enfield action.

 

[S12A]

That's with the RSM replica scope and mounts.
Surprised me, and my mate.
I've been working up to that group, put about 70 rounds through my L42A1 clone to get to that, with a handload.
Very happy with it.
A bit of nostalgia, they decommissioned the L42A1 not long after I finished a course with it.
The AI was a huge leap from Ellie, but I love that Enfield action.

Are you liking the RSM scope?

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

The reticle in this scope is it the same as in the L1A1-scope, perhaps ?...

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

In other words, is it a No.2-Reticle, too ?...

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

So I'm sure some will ask why did I post this here and not the reloading section. Simple a lot guys don't visit the reloading section.

Besides this has more to do with vintage sniper rifles than reloading in general.

Anyone have a good safe, low pressure load using the 150-155gr bthp bullets?

Hmm... Returning to the basic question.. What about the experience with these 155 gr-Match-Loads ? Example Lapua, Hornady, GGG, RWS-RUAG ?

There is something which says to me we should not leave out... Not only as a comparison to the individual handloads, but that too.. .
If its allowed ?

 

[roostercogburn98]

I just loaded a soft load for a 70ish old gentleman using a Rem 7400 semi auto. I believe it would be good enough to use in the rifles you reference

42g RL15 under a 150g Sierra game king

6 shot avg of 2449fps

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Thanks roostercogburn98,

That's interesting. Because an 42 gr Powdercharge is a bit surprising. It seems to be an rather strong load for a semi-auto ?
But I don't know the semi-autos for hunting really well... No, being honest

Do you know the Enfield L42 A1 or Enforcer-Rifles then, I suppose ?

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

And the Police"Colleague"follows here:

 

[roostercogburn98]

Thanks roostercogburn98,

That's interesting. Because an 42 gr Powdercharge is a bit surprising. It seems to be an rather strong load for a semi-auto ?
But I don't know the semi-autos for hunting really well... No, being honest

Do you know the Enfield L42 A1 or Enforcer-Rifles then, I suppose ?

View attachment 7946639


View attachment 7946651

I only know of them, not anything about them really. I have longbranch Enfield receiver in the safe that I want to covert
to 45-70 eventually.

The 7400 has a fairly bulky operating system. I probably could have bumped up to 43 and been ok, especially with this gun having the shorter 18in barrel.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

So somebody next to you had - maybe earlier, not necessarily now - at a time such an 7,62 Enfield-Conversion.. ? And you exchanged yourself.. .

A Longbranch No.4 for a .45-70 Govt. eventually, that sounds good.... There must be some such conversions, f. e. in Australia or New Zealand..

Remington 7400: oh, I see - even 43 grains powder should be all right. Because of the fairly bulky operating system.. Ok... . Semi-Auto-rifles are not widely in use here for hunting... .

Any more experience with the 155 gr Factory-Matchloads as L42 A1-Ammo ?

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

So somebody next to you had - maybe earlier, not necessarily now - at a time such an 7,62 Enfield-Conversion.. ? And you exchanged yourself.. .

A Longbranch No.4 for a .45-70 Govt. eventually, that sounds good.... There must be some such conversions, f. e. in Australia or New Zealand..

Remington 7400: oh, I see - even 43 grains powder should be all right. Because of the fairly bulky operating system.. Ok... . Semi-Auto-rifles are not widely in use here for hunting... .

Any more experience with the 155 gr Factory-Matchloads as L42 A1-Ammo ?

I have 4x conversions. 2 are L42A1 replicas and 2 are L39A1 ‘Enforcer’ replicas. They all shoot extremely well. I have fired Winchester 155gr Match ammo and Aussie Outback 155.5gn Berger Match ammo (ADI headstamps) in them and have had easily sub-MOA accuracy and zero pressure signs.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

I have 4x conversions. 2 are L42A1 replicas and 2 are L39A1 ‘Enforcer’ replicas. They all shoot extremely well. I have fired Winchester 155gr Match ammo and Aussie Outback 155.5gn Berger Match ammo (ADI headstamps) in them and have had easily sub-MOA accuracy and zero pressure signs.

Oh, Replicas.. How that ?...

Meaning with original Enfield Matchbarrels ?..

Wow ! A very impressive Accuracy.. Surprising..
Win. 155 gr Match ammo: Winchester-Production ?

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

Oh, Replicas.. How that ?...

Meaning with original Enfield Matchbarrels ?..

Wow ! A very impressive Accuracy.. Surprising..
Win. 155 gr Match ammo: Winchester-Production ?

Stirling Conversion barrelsx 2 and one has a Lithgow conversion barrel and one has a Sportco Conversion barrel (Sportco made the famous M44 Omark target rifles). The Winchester ammo was made in Geelong, Australia for the NRA fullbore crowd. They have since stopped making ammo in Australia.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Stirling Conversion barrelsx 2 and one has a Lithgow conversion barrel and one has a Sportco Conversion barrel (Sportco made the famous M44 Omark target rifles). The Winchester ammo was made in Geelong, Australia for the NRA fullbore crowd. They have since stopped making ammo in Australia.

Many thanks, ReplicaSnipers A lot of Info..
So totally 3 different conversion barrels, thats the explanation... All 3 are 27,5-in heavy match-barrels ?

What a surprise with the ammo: a 155 grain Palma-Match-Factory-Load ... Because i couldn't find any such load in Winchesters Production nowadays..

Ok... Hmm..
So rarely we read from Palma-Match-Ammo..
I wonder the ballistics of this 155 gr-Load.. ?!

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

Many thanks, ReplicaSnipers A lot of Info..
So totally 3 different conversion barrels, thats the explanation... All 3 are 27,5-in heavy match-barrels ?

What a surprise with the ammo: a 155 grain Palma-Match-Factory-Load ... Because i couldn't find any such load in Winchesters Production nowadays..

Ok... Hmm..
So rarely we read from Palma-Match-Ammo..
I wonder the ballistics of this 155 gr-Load.. ?!

Sorry can’t help with that but would be comparable with other Palma Match loadings of recent times. Also predates my Labradar. An interesting side note is that Sportco was started by Jack Warne of Warne rings fame. I’m not sure if they are all 27.5” but are all heavy contour target barrels of the same era. Lithgow is obviously famous for it’s SMLE production but they also made ‘Black Mountain’ barrels and continue to make sporting arms.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Thanks a lot !

There is in my old literature a info concerning an Palma Match-Load.. The Version 1992, as far as i remember. Okay.. .

The barrel-infos is very interesting - i have to check that better in a quiet moment... It's Fitnesstime..

Have A nice weekend !

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Hello,
some pictures of this rifles would be great !?

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

The rifles are currently being cared for by a friend. A couple are now pulled apart before being rebuilt and have the scopes off them as I have just transported them from Australia to NZ where I am now living. When I get them back and have reassembled them I will definitely post some pictures.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

The rifles are currently being cared for by a friend. A couple are now pulled apart before being rebuilt and have the scopes off them as I have just transported them from Australia to NZ where I am now living. When I get them back and have reassembled them I will definitely post some pictures.

That's it... It sounds good That's exciting... .

Best regards