Labradar doppler chronograph

[stinkyDrunk]

These guys were at SHOT with an interesting chronograph:

LabRadar - My Personal Radar

Not yet available, website says Spring 2014. Folks in the booth said price would be less than $500.

Anyone played with it?

 

[goatsie]

Cool concept!

 

[John_in_WYO]

This has my interest as well.
I was leaning toward the Magnetospeed, but am going to wait and see about his one.
Hard to attach a Magnetospeed to a 2" revolver.

 

[avidflyer]

Spoke with these guys for about 20 minutes. Sounds very promising, they thought it would be priced around $400-$450. They are based in Wichita so a US company.

 

[Slick17]

I like the concept.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Spoke with these guys for about 20 minutes. Sounds very promising, they thought it would be priced around $400-$450. They are based in Wichita so a US company.

Interesting, considering that their "About Us" page starts off with: "LabRadar was developed by Infinition Inc of Trois-Rivieres, Quebec, Canada." I'm happy to see this innovation and productivity come from Canada. Very much so.

 

[damoncali]

That looks very cool. I'd like to see more about the data it collects before pulling the trigger. But I had no idea such a device was even close to possible at that price point. Could be a big deal in BC measurement if it works well enough.

 

[wakajawaka]

I need this!

 

[Edsel]

Similar in concept to the "Arrowspeed RADARChron."

 

[LRShooter101]

Tag!

Wonder if this could actually track the path of the bullet through its flight path? if so, you could have real time ballistic trajectory.

I wonder if Bryan Litz has played around with one of these?

 

[Jmartin2076]

Looks very cool. Was looking through the website and came across it's expected range. It says it will measure a 7.62 bullet out to 100 yds. I hope there is a way to extend this. Maybe set it up further downrange, every 100 yds after each shot, to measure velocity at range.

 

[overspin67]

should read at least to 300yds/meters (even far would be better..) to give useful BCs output. 100yds is not so big deal...

 

[stinkyDrunk]

avidflyer, am I recalling correctly that labradar does not send a constant radar signal, but that it is sound activated? I seem to recall mention of a different actuator for archery type applications. If it's sound activated, at what distance would it pick up a bullet's signature? Would this remain constant?

Also, I've heard speeding tickets can be challenged by calling into question how recently a radar gun was calibrated. Would labradar require regular calibration?

Those are my questions for the labradar folks at this point anyway...

 

[hotbrass]

Can it be used on a busy range with people shooting within 10' of each other?

 

[damoncali]

If it's sound, then it would depend on how far away the device is from the muzzle. If it's 10 feet, that's about 8 milliseconds, which I would guess would be about 5-10 feet past the muzzle, give or take. I didn't do the math, but I bet that's about right.

I'm really excited about the potential for this device. The first version looks to at least be a solid, easy to use chronograph. I can imagine something similar that outputs BCs for every shot in addition to muzzle velocity, or at least the data that would be used to calculate them. Don't know what that would cost, but it's huge if it's doable for less than a few grand. 100 yards seems to be sort of limiting, though.

 

[avidflyer]

avidflyer, am I recalling correctly that labradar does not send a constant radar signal, but that it is sound activated? I seem to recall mention of a different actuator for archery type applications. If it's sound activated, at what distance would it pick up a bullet's signature? Would this remain constant?

Also, I've heard speeding tickets can be challenged by calling into question how recently a radar gun was calibrated. Would labradar require regular calibration?

Those are my questions for the labradar folks at this point anyway...

Correct, I spent quite sometime with them and if I recall it is sound activated....Have to go fly, but brought back all the paperwork they had. I'll check it out tonight when I get back.

 

[Morgan321]

I would assume the problem is the size of a bullet. With such a small radar target you need large output power to get a usable signal back. Large power means large $ for hardware and the power quickly becomes dangerous. No company is going to market a product that exceeds EM safety levels, they would get sued out of existence.

If there is an always-on option you could put one at the target and get a velocity there... Or put it mid-range and shoot past it.... If you had a muzzle velocity and a velocity down range along with elevation data you could perfectly model a given bullet....

 

[ChrisF]

To start with , I was really interested in this , why ? , not as a crono , but as a device to track the actual bullet path , ie trajectory .
BUT when I saw the price point , I realised that was not going to be able to do what I wanted at all .
Its just a different short range crono , I have a good crony already , so donot need another .
As far as I can tell , it gives speed , and also traj for a bow/arrow up to a max of 100yds , so no use to me what so ever .

Maybe one day they will make a version that tracks the bullet down range ? , maybe Not .

Later Chris

 

[SporterII]

Would setting this unit at say 400 yds. and again at , say 800 ... It sounds like there might be some useful flexibility?

 

[Jumper]

If its sound activated i wonder how it works with suppressed shots? I hope thats not how it works. It surely wont track a bullet out to 300yds but, MV and 100yd velocity would give a pretty good sample for calculating BC.

 

[Morgan321]

If sound activated it uses the muzzle blast to know when to turn the radar on. To work with arrows there must be some sort of manual setting? They probably don't leave the radar on because it would kill the batteries very fast. I see they have an external battery option....

You wouldn't want to use a chronograph for mv and this thing for a 100yd velocity because the velocities are so close that the inherent inaccuracies in either device would make a BC you calculate very inaccurate. Ie. your bullet is 3000 at the muzzle and 2800 at 100yd. If you measure 2890 and 2810 you have 10% error right there.

Best thing I can imagine is being able to set this up at a known distance and getting a velocity far downrange, a MV, and elevation data. The radars they use for projectile tracking are large, very powerful(to track tiny things), and have very fast processing to get a velocity every few milliseconds. This is none of those, this is just a souped up police radar gun with fancy softwRe to find tiny targets going mach 3.

 

[stinkyDrunk]

Morgan seeing as you live in Maryland I can see how you might be bitter about, well, everything. I sent a link to this thread to the Labradar folks, let's see if we can get straight answers. They are generally more usefull than conjecture.

 

[Morgan321]

Hardy har har. I'm working in marylandistan until this summer, I live in the free south. I understand now why everybody I know who has lived in MD hated it. It is nice to be able to go shoot at quantico on the weekends though.

I just know a thing or 10 about radar and detecting projectiles. This is an awesome idea, but to make it commercially viable and reasonably priced it will have limitations.

If it has a constant on or remote control, the ability to place it downrange to measure velocity at a known distance would be well worth the $ to serious shooters. I'm making the educated guess that the microphone is used to trigger the radar for a short time interval to make the batteries last more than 10 minutes.

 

[ddavis]

I sent them a few questions and also a link to this thread. Let's see if they show up.

 

[Blackbrush]

COULD be the Holy Grail. I have tried them all and many twice! chronographs that is.......

 

[milo 2.0]

I signed up to be an early buyer. Two chrono's reside in my PU all the time, I'm sick of setup. Watched prep for the magneto speed also, this thing will work for me, hopefully the tripod comes with it.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Interesting, considering that their "About Us" page starts off with: "LabRadar was developed by Infinition Inc of Trois-Rivieres, Quebec, Canada."

And I had high hopes for this chrono...................oh well! ( Just funning with you,.........Sean.) I had a friend speak with these guys at SHOT also, if it does indeed work as claimed it will be a real game changer for the handloader, load developer, shooter.

 

[ddavis]

I just found a flaw in their marketing. You can't Google search for Labradar and get anything but dogs...

 

[LastShot300]

If sound activated it uses the muzzle blast to know when to turn the radar on. To work with arrows there must be some sort of manual setting? They probably don't leave the radar on because it would kill the batteries very fast. I see they have an external battery option....

You wouldn't want to use a chronograph for mv and this thing for a 100yd velocity because the velocities are so close that the inherent inaccuracies in either device would make a BC you calculate very inaccurate. Ie. your bullet is 3000 at the muzzle and 2800 at 100yd. If you measure 2890 and 2810 you have 10% error right there.

Best thing I can imagine is being able to set this up at a known distance and getting a velocity far downrange, a MV, and elevation data. The radars they use for projectile tracking are large, very powerful(to track tiny things), and have very fast processing to get a velocity every few milliseconds. This is none of those, this is just a souped up police radar gun with fancy softwRe to find tiny targets going mach 3.

Given its price point, it's logical to have limitations. Do you think this device, at least at first sight, can measure accurately at the muzzle?

If you check their site, they claim measurements up to 100 yards, but the series image (of the device face) shows a sring up to 200 yards...

 

[Stangs55]

Labradar doppler chronograph

Tagging this thread...


As someone who is just starting into the world of reloading and ready to buy a chrono...I'm going to pump the brakes until this thing releases.

I wonder how it deals with multiple people side-by-side at the range though...

 

[Subwrx300]

For what it's worth, I work with Doppler radar tracking systems for tracking golf ball trajectory and swing dynamics. Doppler radar is an EXTREMELY effective method of tracking exterior ballistics. Ironically, our company has explored uses in this market and I think this could be a GREAT product, provided that the parent company/manufacturer (Infinition I believe) has used high quality components the correct signal to noise ratios and high gain receivers. The accuracy of our Doppler system is approximately .1% which, if their product has similar tolerances, would translate to about +/-3 FPS for a 3,000 FPS projectile at the muzzle.

I have not personally used traditional light-based chronographs, but from other reviews and discussion with industry professionals, they are not always the best for ease of use/consistency under various conditions (cloudy, rainy, early/late sun, etc.). Should the LabRadar be as easy to use as the product that I work with, it should be a winner.

The principle for Doppler radar systems is measuring the shift of high frequency radio as an object moves quickly towards or away from the radio source. It is the same principle that causes a siren from an ambulance coming towards your quickly to sound higher and higher pitched and suddenly get lower pitched as it passes you on the highway. By measuring the change from the initial frequency emitted to the subsequent frequencies returned as they bounce off the projectile, you can very accurately determine the velocity of the moving object.

If they have uber-precise sensors and more powerful transmitters, it is absolutely possible to measure both position and velocity at near and far range. However, the requisite software and processing power for the signal becomes increasingly costly. This is the same type of system that Lapua uses to measure ballistic data for their bullets in Finland but with an industrial grade radar measurement system.

I actually hope that they can pull off reliability of operation and integration with peripherals as this will certainly be a gamed changer for collecting consistent velocity measurements for the average consumer/reloader/precision shooter.

 

[Subwrx300]

With regard to handling multiple shooters side by side: if the radar is focused ( I read that it has a 4 degree radio field), it should absolutely be able to distinguish between the bullet fired by the person closest to the radar versus nearby shooters. The golf radar that I work with will "ignore" shots from players adjacent to the person using our product. Although our system is $25k so it may use better components and signal processing than the LabRadar product. Time will tell though!

 

[hotbrass]

With regard to handling multiple shooters side by side: if the radar is focused ( I read that it has a 4 degree radio field), it should absolutely be able to distinguish between the bullet fired by the person closest to the radar versus nearby shooters. The golf radar that I work with will "ignore" shots from players adjacent to the person using our product. Although our system is $25k so it may use better components and signal processing than the LabRadar product. Time will tell though!

Thanks for the info, but that was only part of what I was interested in learning when I asked about the proximity of other shooters. The fact that it is sound activated may prove to be a problem when there is more than one shooter at the firing line.

 

[JAGERSPEAR]

This is the answer I got when I emailed them about multiple shooters at the line :

Thank you for your question.



The LabRadar accuracy will not be affected by other shots being fired into your radar beam. Part of the technology built into the system allows it to determine if the shot came from very near the radar unit or if it came in from another location. Since the radar beam is only active for a fraction of a second it is nearly impossible for you to receive a velocity from another shooter nearby.



Best regards,



Richard Mouser

LabRadar

LabRadar - My Personal Radar

[email protected]

 

[1slow01z71]

May have to ditch the magnetospeed if this thing pans out. Im interested to see what people think once its out in the field. How do you see your information if its out by the muzzle and turned sideways where the screen is parallel to you? Says its wireless so does that mean you can Bluetooth pair it to your phone and see data on it?

 

[Stangs55]

May have to ditch the magnetospeed if this thing pans out. Im interested to see what people think once its out in the field. How do you see your information if its out by the muzzle and turned sideways where the screen is parallel to you? Says its wireless so does that mean you can Bluetooth pair it to your phone and see data on it?

I'd read elsewhere that it should pair with iPhone/iPads.

If the software/app is functional and slick, then I don't see how I'll be able to avoid buying one...

 

[stinkyDrunk]

I also received a response from Richard Mouser. Says he won't be responding to questions here because "they do not approve of commercial responses" which I'm pretty sure is BS. Disappointing....

 

[1slow01z71]

People from the industry reply here all the time about various products.

 

[Stangs55]

Some pics of the thing in person (thanks to mygunculture)

Note the velocities shown down range in the second photo...

 

[Trevor300wsm]

I'm in for one if it will work.

 

[Jumper]

The pic shows measured velocity at 10, 50, 100 AND 200! Looks promising.

 

[Warpspeed]

Looks pretty slick. Any dimensions for it ?

 

[Lowlight]

There is no issue with them answering questions, we just don't allow companies to come on and blindly advertise. But we have companies answering member questions all time.

I have emailed and inquired and also noted this community is very interested in the product. So if they wanted they are welcome to address any questions posted here.

 

[longrangefool]

Tag

 

[ddavis]

There is no issue with them answering questions, we just don't allow companies to come on and blindly advertise. But we have companies answering member questions all time.

I have emailed and inquired and also noted this community is very interested in the product. So if they wanted they are welcome to address any questions posted here.

When I suggested that they come on here and answer questions, I let them know that the community does not appreciate a "shill" like some other companies have done, but that they should look into what it takes to answer questions, etc. I hope it works out. This is their target market and it would be silly not to capitalize on that.

 

[secondofangle]

I'm thinking this is something I could take to the field to confirm actual velocities during shooting sessions (I'm thinking varmints) if you just have it beside you while you're shooting - suddenly a chrono is as convenient as a laser rangefinder.....

 

[missed]

I'm looking forward to this coming out also.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[Layton]

Question to you guys looking to use this to track trajectory as well. Why? What am I missing here? Isn't having the velocity and ballistic charistics of the bullet enough? It's all math after that and every app I've seen lately will produce a trajectory graph given the other inputs. Just don't see a need to add cost to a unit for this but I'm always missing the obvious somewhere.

And I've had a Magnetospeed since they were first released but if the Labradar does what they say at that price point then Magnetospeed just got a serious threat to their claim to fame as it's easy to set up but introduces variables into the equation the Labradar does not and at the same price point. Put them side by side and I can see Magnetospeed taking a pretty good hit to sales if this does hit the street at that price and works as advertised. Which there's no technical reason why it should not.

L

 

[damoncali]

What I want is some way to measure velocity down range. With good down range velocity measurements, you can reconstruct the trajectory - in other words, you can measure the BC, which is good because it varies from lot to lot and if you look over manufacturer's numbers, sometimes you get the feeling they don't put a lot of effort into them. That, and it opens up a whole new world of amateur bullet design.

 

[Loganwade]

For me the downrange velocity is very nice and interesting, and yes I will use it to compare and calibrate my ballistics app. But what really makes it nice for me is.
1. Ease of use, no rods or sunshields.
2. Cloudy or sunny, doesn't matter.
3. Don't shoot directly over it, nice for letting others try it.
4. Can easily shoot for group testing as well as fps at the same time.
5. .1% accuracy