Lapping new factory rifle barrel? Yes - No...

[6.5BR]

I know some bbls are pretty smooth out the box, but do any of you routinely lap a new factory bbl? Only if needed? Or just shoot them in?

Thinking of how custom barrel mfg lap bbls, I doubt many mass mfg rifles do this, or am I wrong?

Those who do lap, what do you use and any 'procedure' that you follow? Thanks.

 

[Dave]

I was wondering the same thing. I have a Savage 12LRP in Creed that fouls something fierce. It shoots wonderfully, but after about 75 rounds, the fouling is so bad that precision goes to pot. I was thinking cleaning it to bare steel and then lead-lapping it like what is done to custom barrels might be a good idea. But I don't know the first thing about doing it or the tools/skill involved.

 

[abogue77]

I lap ALL of my factory barrels.

 

[Snoball]

I would like to know how to do it as well. I know about using lapping compounds and what not... is it a similar procedure on a rifle barrel? The other question I'm asking myself is, is it really even worth doing this to a factory barrel? Other than just a DIY project, wouldn't I benefit more by just buying a new barrel and have the action squared and new barrel installed?

 

[Boltfluter]

I would and have used the David Tubbs fire lapping kit with great results. Just something to think about.

Regards,
Paul

 

[abogue77]

I hand lap with 320 and 600 lapping compound, I do not use the 220 as I think it removes too much metal.

It's actually very simple, just labor intensive. Just get a cleaning swab for the correct bore size, rub the lapping compound all over it and start running it in and out of your barrel. Starting with the smallest grit #(which is the largest grit), up to the largest grit # (the smallest grit). I guess I spend 2 hours or more on each grit, except the last grit I might spend a little more. There are several you tube videos and most people do it all different anyways. Your goal is basically to polish the inside, removing tool marks and etc.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Barrel Break-In

 

[cal50]

No.
Shoot it.
Most high end barrels were lapped while rifling. The throat is the area not as smooth after chambering. Watch the throat area for copper build up until it smoothes out getting some rounds thru it.

 

[abogue77]

There is a difference between lapping and breaking in a barrel. Breaking in is a good thing, but it does not remove tooling marks, only lapping will do that. Breaking in only fills pores with copper. The OP is asking about lapping factory grade barrels, he later referenced custom barrels.

 

[abogue77]

In my opinion factory rifles are hit and miss. Some out of the box will shoot 1/4 moa, others will sling bullets that resemble a shotgun pattern. Most of it has to do with wether or not the manufacturer just changed tooling before your barrel was made. I'm also not one that believes lapping makes a more accurate barrel, not directly anyways. What is does is reduce fouling, considerably, which keeps your barrel accurate for longer times between cleaning.

 

[JGorski]

I never lap any of my factory barrels, they shoot good the way they come from the factory.

 

[mtrmn]

I fire lapped almost every barrel I have--BUT I do not have any barrels that could ever be mistaken to be "high end" or "custom." Mostly AR's, but a couple bolts and lever guns in there as well. Oh yeah, an older mini14 as well, but NOTHING EVER helped that gun in the accuracy dept.

I used what I had on hand anyway-Clover valve grinding compound. I took some cheap jacketed bullets and embedded the compound into the jackets by rolling the bullets between 2 pieces of steel plate. Loaded some light loads and fired several rounds with coarser grit, several with medium, and several more with fine. This worked for ME--YMMV.

Most did not improve in accuracy by any measurable amount, but they would STAY accurate a lot longer and need cleaning a lot less. Again I am not talking about barrels that are shooting bugholes a light-year away. Just general utility-grade guns that I tinker with to try and get the most performance possible from. I manage to get sub MOA at 100 yds from every AR I own with the proper reloads, so I didn't HURT the barrels any and managed to exceed my expected level of performance from them.

By all means, you need to make up your own mind. But I have had no ill effects from fire lapping and am satisfied with my results. If you're considering replacing the barrel anyway, then that's another vote to try it. What would you have to lose?

 

[cal50]

There is a difference between lapping and breaking in a barrel. Breaking in is a good thing, but it does not remove tooling marks, only lapping will do that. Breaking in only fills pores with copper. The OP is asking about lapping factory grade barrels, he later referenced custom barrels.

I would assume most production factory rifle barrels are button rifled which produces a very smooth bore, similar to a coined surface. These are pretty smooth barrels and typically a little softer steel to push or pull the rifling button. I do not bother breaking these in or lapping, I shoot it , clean it and look for traces of excessive copper. If present lapping is an option.

If you happen to have a non-plated broach cut barrel the surface finish is a lot rougher than a lapped cut rifled or button barrel. Surface finish would likely be 32 micro or better. If you have one of these tubes you will know it becasue they never seem to be completely clean and grab copper material quickly. A patch with Sweets look Windex blue coming out. Its these types of barrels that might benefit from lapping.

If you have a chrome or plated barrel I would not worry about lapping it.

Barrel break in is a cult ritual and everyone has their own voodoo that supposedly helps. I shoot it for accuracy then monitor how it cleans up and then decide if it needs help.

 

[abogue77]

I'd agree that most factory are button rifled, and about leaving plated bores alone. To me, it's a matter of machining. Factory barrels are rifled a whole lot faster than most customs, which can make bores sloppy. They also run 10 or more times the amount of barrels through the same tooling before changing it.

I am by no means saying that all factory barrels have to be lapped. It's just my opinion that if you don't have access to a fiber optic scope, which I do, then it's a good idea to smooth it out anyways. If that kind of attention to detail matters to you. If it's something I can do myself as cheap as lapping, I'm all for it.

I've scoped a handful of beautiful factory barrels, most are marked up a lot, and I've seen some that were so pitiful you wanted to take the barrel off and beat the manufacturer with it. It's just my opinion that if someone were to ask me if a factory barrel needs lapped, from what I've seen, my response would be yes, if one had the time and patience to do it.

 

[JGorski]

Arent most factory barrels hammer forged with a mandrel? I mean the domestic manufactures anyways.

 

[6.5BR]

Good stuff - thanks all.

 

[abogue77]

Arent most factory barrels hammer forged with a mandrel? I mean the domestic manufactures anyways.

Now, I could be wrong about this, but it was my understanding that even though button rifling is slower, the machining process is a lot cheaper as well. As hammer forging machinery breaks, or needs replacing, it is replaced with button rifling machinery, they just pull the buttons faster than custom makers. Most all factory barrels used to be hammer forged from major companies, but I believe now they are transitioning.

 

[diderr]

Simple solution. Fire lapping with Tubb Final Finish.

 

[Nate O.]

No.......shoot the fucker

 

[cal50]

No.......shoot the fucker

Bingo.


Bore scopes are great if you are in the manufacturing business and doing inspection to control quality. Once a barrel is on a rifle the certification , bore scope pictures,air gauge reading and everything else means little.
The test is how it performs.

If it shoots and cleans up "normal" you have a winner. If it fouls and cleans up like a bitch THEN troubleshoot it.
If it aint broke don't fix it and most rifle barrels are damaged and worn out from cleaning rod damage , NOT shooting.

You cannot put metal back on and lapping anything removes metal, leave it there unless you have a problem.
YMMV.

 

[Ring]

I would and have used the David Tubbs fire lapping kit with great results. Just something to think about.

Regards,
Paul

this.. ONLY on factory non lapped barrels, like 700 and savage..

also, ONLY use grit 1 to 3, NOT 4,5/... 5 and 4 are for pitted crappy barrels...

most factory savage copper foul pretty bad.. this has fixed that on every gun ive used it on

 

[pawprint2]

I'd agree that most factory are button rifled, and about leaving plated bores alone. To me, it's a matter of machining. Factory barrels are rifled a whole lot faster than most customs, which can make bores sloppy. They also run 10 or more times the amount of barrels through the same tooling before changing it.

I am by no means saying that all factory barrels have to be lapped. It's just my opinion that if you don't have access to a fiber optic scope, which I do, then it's a good idea to smooth it out anyways. If that kind of attention to detail matters to you. If it's something I can do myself as cheap as lapping, I'm all for it.

I've scoped a handful of beautiful factory barrels, most are marked up a lot, and I've seen some that were so pitiful you wanted to take the barrel off and beat the manufacturer with it. It's just my opinion that if someone were to ask me if a factory barrel needs lapped, from what I've seen, my response would be yes, if one had the time and patience to do it.

Quite frankly I believe you are wrong. "most factory are button rifled,...". I don't know where you would have gotten that, but no- most Factory Barrels are hammer forged, The Vast Majority of Remington, FN, etc. The idea that a hammer forged tube is not as accurate, or can't be made to last as long, is a myth propagated by story tellers (to be kind), FN's barrels 10-15000 rounds and still hold 1MOA or better. Your statement about the factories run 10 times more barrels before changing their tooling, than I guess a small shop, is a puzzle! Almost no small tube makers are making hammer forged barrels, but just to clear the air, how often does let's say Remington change their Hammer Forged tooling, and would you suggest they cut that number by 90%? I'm not sure how the speed of rifling is causing the bores to be "sloppy". Are you saying that a hammer forged barrel, let's say one of FN's SPR tubes is sloppy because it may have been manufactured faster than a Douglas barrel? Can you elucidate a little on this subject ?

 

[pawprint2]

Arent most factory barrels hammer forged with a mandrel? I mean the domestic manufactures anyways.

Yes indeed they are, a 1 sec Google search should be of some help to those putting out otherwise.

 

[abogue77]

Quite frankly I believe you are wrong. "most factory are button rifled,...". I don't know where you would have gotten that, but no- most Factory Barrels are hammer forged, The Vast Majority of Remington, FN, etc. The idea that a hammer forged tube is not as accurate, or can't be made to last as long, is a myth propagated by story tellers (to be kind), FN's barrels 10-15000 rounds and still hold 1MOA or better. Your statement about the factories run 10 times more barrels before changing their tooling, than I guess a small shop, is a puzzle! Almost no small tube makers are making hammer forged barrels, but just to clear the air, how often does let's say Remington change their Hammer Forged tooling, and would you suggest they cut that number by 90%? I'm not sure how the speed of rifling is causing the bores to be "sloppy". Are you saying that a hammer forged barrel, let's say one of FN's SPR tubes is sloppy because it may have been manufactured faster than a Douglas barrel? Can you elucidate a little on this subject ?

First of all, I never said anywhere in any of my post that a hammer forged barrel was not accurate, nowhere. The most accurate barrel in my safe is a hammer forge. I also never said anything about them not lasting as long. So, if you're going to quote me, then how about we discuss what I actually said.

Also, factories do use their tooling a lot more than custom makers before changing it out, regardless of how they make it. Don't you think that's why there so many wonderful custom barrel makers in business, a healthy business?

As I said above, I've seen some excellent factory barrels, I own some. But if the average Joe were to walk up to me and ask should he lap his factory barrel then my answer would be 'absolutely sir!', because I've seen what most of them look like from the inside.

 

[abogue77]

Yes indeed they are, a 1 sec Google search should be of some help to those putting out otherwise.

Yes, the wonderful google search. Because everything google pulls up is true. If that were the case we wouldn't need forums like these now would we?

 

[Delta4-3]

I would like to know how to do it as well. I know about using lapping compounds and what not... is it a similar procedure on a rifle barrel? The other question I'm asking myself is, is it really even worth doing this to a factory barrel? Other than just a DIY project, wouldn't I benefit more by just buying a new barrel and have the action squared and new barrel installed?

I do it by casting five soft lead bullets. I then coat them with lube. Then I cover the lube with Jewelers Rouge. I load them with a fastish powder and fire them, cleaning between each. If it needs more, I repeat, but five usually gets the bore quite shiny.

 

[JGorski]

And there you have it, folks!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Xobi7veUnpQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I don't lap. For a premium aftermarket barrel it should not be needed, and may void any warrantees. For factory barrels, I once fire lapped, but later conclude that it was redundant, what I was looking to accomplish would eventually occur anyway. I also decided that removing metal from a barrel interior made less sense, and there was also the possibility of warrantee issues.

I'd never do anything of this sort without a clear goal in mind.

If easier cleaning is the goal, nothing I could do would make cleaning any easier than using Outer's Gunslick Bore Cleaning Foam. It gets it all out, easiest way I've found, does not depend on bore lapping.

If accuracy is the goal; I've never seen anything to convince me lapping either increases or decreases accuracy, but there may well be a cost in bore life, and I'm never for that.

I now consider user-performed bore lapping in the same category as Snake Oil.

Greg

 

[6.5BR]

Thanks again for all posts. Good stuff.

 

[ccoker]

Not really "lapping", but on a factory barrel..

Right, wrong or indifferent I use JB bore compound on new barrels with 20-30 back and forth strokes focusing in the throat area.
Then pushing out the patch.
Run few more patches embedded with JB /oil breach to muzzle, exit, remove.

Follow up with foaming bore cleaner, flush out and Tina few dry patches.

Only takes about 10 minutes and I have always had great accuracy out of it..
Probably no real difference that just shooting and cleaning but it has worked for me..

Voodoo practice perhaps.

 

[hlee]

I'll never be able to find it but David Tubb chimed in on this topic here a while back. His input (factory rifle) was shoot the rifle. If the accuracy is there then don't do anything. But, if the accuracy is not there, then his Final Finish product may bring it around.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

He would be the one to trust, and I do.

Greg

 

[GRG]

Barrel Break-In