Rifle Scopes Lapping rings necessity or dumb in 2019

[tracktrash]

About to pull the trigger on some ARC m10 rings for a Leupold Mark5HD. This will be my first “‘mid to higher end” scope. Mounted plenty of shitty scopes on shitty rings in the past that definitely required lapping. I am reading that in today’s age that it really isn’t necessary? Will be going on a one piece mount either a Nightforce or badger ordnance one piece rail.
Would it hurt to buy a lapping kit to verify the rings are true or should I just save the money and trust the ARC rings and rail to be machined correctly?

 

[918v]

It’s not the rings that are the problem but the base which often is warped and or warps when it is torqued down to the receiver. A warped base will misalign the rings.

 

[DangerRanger]

IMO save your money

 

[stello1001]

The rings will be more than true...

 

[opus56]

Not needed on good rings, like the ARC's, Spuhr, etc.

 

[tracktrash]

Are badger steel bases good to go? Or should I go with the Nightforce? Seems those are the top of the line from what I’ve been reading online. Heard NF in the past weren’t to true spec though ?

 

[loveha]

Could always order from https://www.murphyprecision.com/

Have one for a savage and it's probably the nicest base I have seen.

 

[stello1001]

Are badger steel bases good to go? Or should I go with the Nightforce? Seems those are the top of the line from what I’ve been reading online. Heard NF in the past weren’t to true spec though ?

Either of those bases will be good. If anything, the action might be the one to be slightly out of spec so it's best to bed whichever base you go with to your action using JB Weld.

 

[wade2big]

Are badger steel bases good to go? Or should I go with the Nightforce? Seems those are the top of the line from what I’ve been reading online. Heard NF in the past weren’t to true spec though ?

Just buy a base and rings and torque down. None of that other stuff will make a difference. Expensive or cheap really doesn’t seem to matter.

 

[striped1]

If you are buying good machined rings, the only thing lapping will do is ruin them.

 

[Danattherock]

ARC M10 rings are of great quality. I wouldn't think about lapping them. They have a reputation for being true and holding zero. Just mount the optic and enjoy. I put my 4th optic in a set the other day. Love these rings.

 

[bhoges]

I use a lapping bar to ensure alignment while being torqued and to check the fit. That way if there is an issue you'll see it on the bar before you damage a scope. Even the best component can have issues. Remember you stacking tolerances of the rifle, base, rings and scope.

 

[natdscott]

If you are buying good machined rings, the only thing lapping will do is ruin them.

Ah. And yet, every time I lap a set and epoxy bed them, it is so damn effective that I don’t mind “ruining” them.

35 pounds of recoil and 2 lb scopes do always not sit tight on their own, so I respectfully say that you are giving poor advice.

 

[b6graham]

Ah. And yet, every time I lap a set and epoxy bed them, it is so damn effective that I don’t mind “ruining” them.

35 pounds of recoil and 2 lb scopes do always not sit tight on their own, so I respectfully say that you are giving poor advice.

Because that scope and mount combo is not effective without wasting time energy and money? Right. Good call.

 

[stello1001]

Ah. And yet, every time I lap a set and epoxy bed them, it is so damn effective that I don’t mind “ruining” them.

35 pounds of recoil and 2 lb scopes do always not sit tight on their own, so I respectfully say that you are giving poor advice.

But are you lapping quality rings or cheap ones? The cheap ones probably do benefit from lapping as they are probably not true to spec.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I've never lapped a set of rings and none of my scopes have ring marks or damage.

 

[LawnMM]

If you lap a set of ARC rings you're a fuckin idiot. That is all.

 

[theLBC]

if you have separate rings, then it doesn't matter how awesome they are if the rail they are mounted on is warped.
if you are using a quality monolithic mount, you should be able to trust them to be gtg.
if you don't trust the base for the rings, then it wouldn't hurt to check. you should be able to feel if the tube and bottom of the rings are mating well when you try to rotate the scope. it should be firm even without the tops on. if it is too easy, it might be riding on edges.

i'm not saying this from years of experience having to lap rings. i have never had to do that. it is just common engineering sense.

 

[LawnMM]

it is just common engineering sense.

????????

Common sense would dictate you spend money on quality rings AND a quality base. If the rings aren't concentric from a shit base, the answer is spend $120 on a seekins, badger, Nightforce, LRI, etc. base, not to ruin a $200 set of rings by lapping them to work with a shit base.

 

[theLBC]

????????

Common sense would dictate you spend money on quality rings AND a quality base. If the rings aren't concentric from a shit base, the answer is spend $120 on a seekins, badger, Nightforce, LRI, etc. base, not to ruin a $200 set of rings by lapping them to work with a shit base.

whatever people want to do (or not) is none of my business. i certainly didn't suggest anyone lap anything.
i simple said perfect rings don't line themselves up.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Are badger steel bases good to go? Or should I go with the Nightforce? Seems those are the top of the line from what I’ve been reading online. Heard NF in the past weren’t to true spec though ?

Badger steel bases are tanks and something you won’t need to worry about. If I had to buy a base, I’d either buy Badger, NF, or Area 419.

No need to lap your rings. Just make sure your base and rings are properly mounted, loc-tited, and torqued. Place a few witness marks on your screws and you’re ready to go.

 

[ncr92]

Get this tool to check alignment of rings.

Kokopelli SCOPE ALIGNMENT BARS

I mount the rings to the rail and check alignment before I mount the rail to the gun. With good quality rings and rails, the alignment is usually perfect. If alignment is out after you install rail and rings on the gun, you know you need to bed the rail.

 

[Birddog6424]

Just buy a base and rings and torque down. None of that other stuff will make a difference. Expensive or cheap really doesn’t seem to matter.

Pretty much this..

I have two Burris PEPR mounts on AR platforms. One of which I regularly shoot to 800 yards plus. I've had no issues with accuracy or dependability. They were like $90 mounts back when I bought them. I also have expensive rings, Badger, Seekins, Burris Signature Series, Bobro, ADM Recon, Warne X Skel, and I'm probably missing a few, but no problems with them either.

With modern machining technology, even the inexpensive stuff is pretty damn reliable. The likelihood of an issue is awfully low.

 

[chavezz556]

Lapping rings is like the old keep your scope as low as possible theory.. not needed in this day and age.. spend at least $100 on rings and call it good.

Btw the only time I've marred a scope is when I thought it was a good idea to lap the rings. I'll never do that again.

 

[chevy_man]

I've seen rings ruined by lapping.

I've never seen a scope ruined by not lapping, even cheap rings.

Although, I also believe in aluminum rings to grab an aluminum body. I've dropped rifles hard enough to break the screws off the receiver, and break scopes. Never broken a ring.

 

[Fig]

You're not going to "ruin" rings with a lapping bar and jeweler's rouge. You're taking off less than a thou (less than a thin coat of paint), and when it all wears uniform you stop, so technically you're hardly lapping a CNCed set of rings that are already nearly perfect.

Bedding them is pure preference, and that doesn't "ruin" them either, as most non-retarded marksmen apply release first so that when you removed a bedded scope you the epoxy just pops out.

I would never lap or bed a Spuhr mount, but it would not ruin or even hurt it if I did...

The correct answer is mostly that it isn't at all necessary with good (the cost does indeed make a huge difference) rings.

 

[DP425]

PROPERLY BED YOUR HIGH QUALITY BASE... then don’t worry about your high quality rings.
You run into trouble when you use cheap shit, and don’t bed your quality base.
Seriously. Just follow this advice and you’ll be fine

 

[Dthomas3523]

Yes

 

[Mooncake]

I’m putting high quality rings from Hawkins directly onto a Remington 700 receiver. It’s from the early 90s before Remington went to shit, but I’m still concerned about the alignment due to machining of the receiver. I’m not concerned about the rings per se.

Previously I’ve only used quality one piece mounts and didn’t worry about it.

Should I find somebody that can look into it or not worry about it?

 

[theLBC]

I’m putting high quality rings from Hawkins directly onto a Remington 700 receiver. It’s from the early 90s before Remington went to shit, but I’m still concerned about the alignment due to machining of the receiver. I’m not concerned about the rings per se.

Previously I’ve only used quality one piece mounts and didn’t worry about it.

Should I find somebody that can look into it or not worry about it?

if you're really concerned, you can mount the rings, lay the scope in there and eyeball it, and if it looks tits, go with it.
seems your scope tube should be pretty close to using a lapping bar to look for gaps.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Just get a SPUHR or if you don't want to blow your load get a SPRM one piece mount.

 

[LawnMM]

So rings cut on equipment running from hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in cost and that measure to the third and fourth decimal need a guy in his kitchen with a lapping bar to make them correct...

Got it. ? Stop buying shit products and you'll have less problems.

 

[Halberdier]

All your myths dispelled in one convenient video. Bedding at 0:36, lapping at 8:40 and a few more in between.

 

[918v]

PROPERLY BED YOUR HIGH QUALITY BASE... then don’t worry about your high quality rings.
You run into trouble when you use cheap shit, and don’t bed your quality base.
Seriously. Just follow this advice and you’ll be fine

Don’t assume your high quality base is perfectly straight. Check for straightness before, during, and after mounting.

 

[918v]

if you're really concerned, you can mount the rings, lay the scope in there and eyeball it, and if it looks tits, go with it.
seems your scope tube should be pretty close to using a lapping bar to look for gaps.

We’re not talking visible gaps. We’re talking slight misalignment that causes major issues.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Had a badger base and NF rings with an NF scope. Alignment was fine but had to lap for the scope to fit the rings. Everything works fine now. This is my only combo I've ever had to lap but just because everything is quality or matching doesnt mean it will be perfect.

If it fits and is aligned you dont need to lap. Lapping will not hurt it though.

 

[Hellbender]

Quality rings do not need lapping. BUT the base cannot be misaligned or twisted, many are, and people try to fix a screwed up base by lapping rings because they don't understand how crooked many factory receivers are (I'm NOT talking about high quality aftermarket receivers here).

Remington 700 receivers were (don't know what they do on current models) final finished by HAND on a BELT SANDER and buffer!
Never use a 2 piece base on a Rem. 700 without CAREFULLY checking alignment.
Best case is to buy a STEEL one piece base.
To check alignment, torque just the front 2 screws on the base, then get a light and look carefully around the rear part of the base as you try to squeeze the rear up and down.....squeeze hard, or put one screw in the rear and tighten and loosen while checking.
Then remove the front 2 screws and lightly torque the REAR 2 screws, do the same to the front.
Then torque all 4 screws and take a good straightedge (I use the beam on my calipers) and check for flatness, hold up to a light and look for any bend, bow, or twist.
IF you see ANY movement, or ANY misalignment, the base needs bedded.

I'd guess 60% or more need bedded, if they were really checked closely.

 

[Diablo]

Personal preferences.

Am not a proponent of lapping.

IMO it is easy to check the base even if it is integrally machined with the receiver, before slapping stuff together.

On the receivers that do not have an integral base (like the Rem 700), check the fit of the base and bed it if needed.

I like Badger bases and rings, and usually keep a set (or two) of 34mm 306-75 on hand for new builds.

Near Manufacturing makes good bases and rings. Hope they are still in business (in Alberta) -- haven't contacted them in a while. They machine their base with a lug (this will require machining a groove in your receiver) to reduce stress from recoil on the mounting screws. And they make custom bases to suit your needs (custom MOA, etc.). I was not familiar with the Near Products until I got a KMW (Terry Cross) build in 300 Win Mag and he put a Near 30 MOA base on it. If you shoot a heavy hitter, but your action does not have an integrally machined base, then take a look at the Near bases --

Also have a couple of rifles with NF bases/rings which are OK.

Have had several other brands, some OK, some were not. Some have broken. Am not a Burris fan.

Would rather not use aluminum for mounting scopes, but am using Navy high rings (Badger) for ARs which are alloy.