Lapua Testing - Midas vs Center-X

[littlepod]

Hey everyone, wanted to do a group poll on people who got tested at the Lapua Testing Center to see how Midas compared to CX and when you might have chosen Midas, even though Midas is 30% more expensive.

Vudoo Gen 1.2, Ace Barrel 18" Kukri

Midas+ 50m

Midas+ 100m

Center-X 50m

Center-X 100m

I ended up choosing Center-X of course.

 

[littlepod]

Vudoo 360 22" Benchmark

Midas+ 50m

Midas+ 100m

Center-X 50m

Center-X 100m

I ended up choosing Midas+ in this case.

 

[FN15]

Midas+ are the lots of Center-X that shot better on average in their factory test rifles, so I’m told.

 

[littlepod]

Midas+ are the lots of Center-X that shot better on average in their factory test rifles, so I’m told.

I think I've heard that X-Act, Midas+, and Center-X are all the same ammo but based on how well they shot out of their factory test rifles. I don't know if ES/SD has anything to do with how well it shoots. I am guessing they're correlated but not sure...

I heard also that Eley Tenex is the better stuff than Eley Match. I lot tested 10 lots of Eley Tenex and the group sizes were varied from shotgun pattern to 1 hole in my rifle, very odd how all this stuff works out.

 

[straightshooter1]

I think I've heard that X-Act, Midas+, and Center-X are all the same ammo but based on how well they shot out of their factory test rifles. I don't know if ES/SD has anything to do with how well it shoots. I am guessing they're correlated but not sure...

Just a few years ago I saw a video regarding the test center of someone who works there and he said that's how they determine which packaging is used for a particular lot. It's base on their test results for each lot.

 

[acourvil]

While I believe that Midas+ is generally graded better than CenterX, your results may differ depending on what lots are available at the time of testing. When I sent my gun to the test center about a year ago, the two best performing lots were CenterX, and they outperformed the lots of Midas+ that were available at the time.

 

[Appalachian]

I went to Marengo twice last year. The first time I tested both Midas+ and Center X. One of the Midas’ 20 shot 50M groups beat the best 20 shot (best)CX group by 1 mm. Had it been 2 or 3mm smaller I might have gone with the Midas. The second time I didn’t even test Midas.
I got an email from Luke at East saying my June 2022 appointment had been canceled and delayed because he is leaving, but it would be rescheduled. He got me in at Mesa immediately and I’m still in the queue for Marengo.
Tomorrow I ship out to Mesa. I will test both Midas and CX since I can only buy one case anyway. If the best lot of Midas beats the best lot of CX by 2 or 3mm this time I will go with Midas.
I’m kind of apprehensive about shipping a gun what with all the shipping issues of late. It recently took me 21 days to receive a rifle to KY from OR with few updates. So I’m just shipping the barreled action since the stock is worth more than the barreled action.

 

[Asared]

I remember when I first started shooting I was told that Lapua owned SK, the difference being that the Lapua was a higher quality and made in Finland whereas the SK was make in Germany. The only Lapua ammunition I've had is Center-X and it had "Made in Germany" printed on the box. Just wondering what does it say on the boxes of Midas+ and X-Act for those of you that have had it - Finland or Germany?

 

[shoot4fun]

I remember when I first started shooting I was told that Lapua owned SK, the difference being that the Lapua was a higher quality and made in Finland whereas the SK was make in Germany. The only Lapua ammunition I've had is Center-X and it had "Made in Germany" printed on the box. Just wondering what does it say on the boxes of Midas+ and X-Act for those of you that have had it - Finland or Germany?

I have both C-X and SKLR in a couple different lots. They look identical right down to the ID markings on the case head. I subjected a batch of each to rim thickness and weight sorting and they sorted out much differently. The rim thickness of C-X had less variance and the weight did as well. I don't remember the exact rim numbers but where the SKLR had as much a 1 grain weight variation the C-X was within .1 all weighted on my FX120 scale.
All that said, for the stuff I shoot my Vudoo has performed best with SKLR unsorted.

 

[SwatchDog]

From 3weeks ago
Mounted in McMillan A6 Bedded Stock

As you can see, the difference between CX and M+ here is minor but tangible, especially at 100m.
I was able to get almost a case of CX (they were 3 bricks short) so was able to also purchase half case of M+ to use at long range or against my archrival when he shows up.

What I thought was so interesting is how poorly some lots shot. For example:

Obviously rejected...

To me, this shows how important lot testing is.

 

[dscl]

Following this with great interest, I just submitted my info to get in the test queue in Ohio last night.

 

[littlepod]

From 3weeks ago
Mounted in McMillan A6 Bedded Stock


View attachment 7793968

View attachment 7793947

View attachment 7793948

View attachment 7793964

As you can see, the difference between CX and M+ here is minor but tangible, especially at 100m.
I was able to get almost a case of CX (they were 3 bricks short) so was able to also purchase half case of M+ to use at long range or against my archrival when he shows up.

What I thought was so interesting is how poorly some lots shot. For example:

View attachment 7793971
Obviously rejected...

To me, this shows how important lot testing is.

Wow great results! Those are amazing. I'd definitely have taken that CX lot you got! Who chambered your Krieger barrel?

 

[SwatchDog]

Steve Roe at Apache Machine in Wilksboro NC. Great outfit. https://apachemachine.com/#precision-rifles

 

[SwatchDog]

Is there anyone watching this thread that can plain English me on the meaning of DHH shown below?

 

[shoot4fun]

Is there anyone watching this thread that can plain English me on the meaning of DHH shown below?

View attachment 7794284

Glad you asked that cuz I was wondering too. Surely those who have tested there know what it means.

 

[acourvil]

IIRC, it is distance hit to hit. It's basically a measure of group size, or how much variation there is in sequential hits.

 

[flatland1]

What convinced me to test at Lapua was the number of lots of C-X that I had to sample to find a really good lot in my Krieger barrels chambered with an EPS reamer. And then - because of delays in getting the lot samples tested due to poor weather conditions - by the time I'd found that really good lot, everyone else in the country must've already found out how good it was, because I couldn't find any more of it anywhere.

 

[shoot4fun]

IIRC, it is distance hit to hit. It's basically a measure of group size, or how much variation there is in sequential hits.

And apparently those numbers are metric.?

 

[acourvil]

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Yes, they are metric.

 

[acourvil]

 

[SwatchDog]

What more can one ask for!

 

[Williwaw]

What more can one ask for!

Just to point out that there are 6 values given that relate to DHH(ie. mean,std dev, min, max, etc). Clearly the straight DHH between the 9th and 10th shots in the group is about as meaningless measurement of precision that possibly exists.

I've noticed that lately the guys who are posting test center results are only showing 10 shot groups. There are lots of older examples on the forums that show 20 and 40 round groups which I consider much more relevant. Are you guys not getting to see 4x10 composite groups at the Lapua facilities?

 

[SwatchDog]

Here you go...
Only 20 on the best performing lot. No 40 shot groups. Luke probably would have done so if I had asked but this was good enough for me (and my migraine at the time)

 

[SwatchDog]

And at 100:
(This is why I picked up some M+ as well)

 

[hiddenshooter]

Eley actually published the difference between 10x, match, and team. They used rsd radial standard deviation. Its in their latest catalog.

ELEY brochure USA 2020 |

ELEY Ammunition USA product guide 2020

www.eleyammunition.com

 

[littlepod]

On the first page of the print out, do they just overlay the two 10 shot groups to show you the 20 shot total?

 

[Williwaw]

On the first page of the print out, do they just overlay the two 10 shot groups to show you the 20 shot total?

View attachment 7794681

That is my understanding but I've never been there myself. Both of you guys have nice 20 shot groups.

 

[Williwaw]

Eley actually published the difference between 10x, match, and team. They used rsd radial standard deviation. Its in their latest catalog.

ELEY brochure USA 2020 |

ELEY Ammunition USA product guide 2020

www.eleyammunition.com

Nice find, thanks for posting that info.

 

[Appalachian]

On the first page of the print out, do they just overlay the two 10 shot groups to show you the 20 shot total?

View attachment 7794681

The two times I’ve gone in person what Luke would do is pick the best few 10 shot group lots and do twenty shot groups with the best lots for a final test. I’m a poor so don’t sneer at my CZ’s results. On this trip we had to shoot it in the stock without the rear action lug screwed in, long story. I’m shipping a different CZ out to Mesa today.

 

[SwatchDog]

Yes, Luke ran through 14 lots of CX and 8 lots of M+ that he had on hand. On some of the lots, it was obvious after <10 shots that they didn't match up with the barrel so we moved on. Then he revisited the best performers and the results matched the first time around. From there the decision was pretty obvious. Luke has just recently taken another job where his wife can be closer to home. For him, it must have been a no-brainer. He was a nice kid for sure.

 

[SwatchDog]

Correction - 8 lots of CX and 6 lots of M+
Coffee finally kicking in.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

How much does it cost, aside form sending the rifle back and forth?

 

[1813Benny]

$50 per rifle/barreled action for testing of 8 to 16 lots. Minimum purchase is 5000 rounds (1 case).

 

[Williwaw]

$50 per rifle/barreled action for testing of 8 to 16 lots. Minimum purchase is 5000 rounds (1 case).

For those interested, I saw a post that at this time Lapua is limiting purchases to a case per quarter, ie. every 3 months. I don't have that first hand but worth checking if you are considering going.

 

[littlepod]

For those interested, I saw a post that at this time Lapua is limiting purchases to a case per quarter, ie. every 3 months. I don't have that first hand but worth checking if you are considering going.

That is correct. Also they waive the testing fee if you buy a case. I don't know if that's official or if that's just if they're being nice.

 

[SwatchDog]

There was no mention of a fee when I visited In early Jan of this year.

 

[Appalachian]

I shipped one out to Mesa today. I was told it is currently a three week turn around time. This will be my third time testing, the first at Mesa. I’ve never paid the $50 fee. It’s going to be a long three weeks, but better now than during the season.

 

[shoot4fun]

I shipped one out to Mesa today. I was told it is currently a three week turn around time. This will be my third time testing, the first at Mesa. I’ve never paid the $50 fee. It’s going to be a long three weeks, but better now than during the season.

From what I read on the website it seems Mesa is the best option right now. The Ohio location appears to be booked out solid for around the next 4-5 months.

 

[Appalachian]

From what I read on the website it seems Mesa is the best option right now. The Ohio location appears to be booked out solid for around the next 4-5 months.

It’s the only option as the person who does the testing left and they are looking for a replacement. I got a notice that my appointment in Ohio had been cancelled and would be rescheduled when they found a replacement. I’m still in the queue though.

 

[dscl]

It’s the only option as the person who does the testing left and they are looking for a replacement. I got a notice that my appointment in Ohio had been cancelled and would be rescheduled when they found a replacement. I’m still in the queue though.

Yeah, I tried scheduling a new appointment in Ohio yesterday and was told they aren't taking new appointments right now.