Rifle is AR10, .308, 20", 1:10, I dont think the list is necessary, if it is, I will provide it. My question is; would I see a difference in anything if I used a rifle length tube and buffer system, versus a carbine length tube and buffer system? Buffer weights being the same, of course. My overall thought is to go with the JP scs, although I've never used or owned one, simply because of that silly sound inside the tube that the standard system makes. JP offers it for both systems, I do believe. Maybe I'm reading too far into this, but this is where I'll get my answer. Thank you to all in advance.
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Large frame Buffer question
- Thread starter AMGtuned
- Start date
A rifle and carbine are two different animals and There is a big difference. If going with JP also get the adjustable weight bolt carrier. That’s an incredible combo.
If you want a Carbine/Rifle hybrid, get the Vltor RE5 (longer receiver extension than carbine) and get a Slash’s , heavy carbine buffer. Read up on the Vltor RE5 in AR10. Heavy buffers has info on their site also. I started with a Carbine 308 buffer then went to Vltor and absolutely love it.
If you want a Carbine/Rifle hybrid, get the Vltor RE5 (longer receiver extension than carbine) and get a Slash’s , heavy carbine buffer. Read up on the Vltor RE5 in AR10. Heavy buffers has info on their site also. I started with a Carbine 308 buffer then went to Vltor and absolutely love it.
Try running some grease in the buffer tube... far quieter.
If you move to a rifle length buffer system.. try a KAK 9.3oz .308 rifle buffer, and a Tubbs .308 Flatwire recoil spring
Currently the rifle has a carbine length tube and system with magpul prs. Curious about recoil reduction (not that it's a problem), and cycling issues (which are not present) thank you
The adjustable bolt carrier is nice but I recommend running an adjustable gas block. Much easier to tune for suppressed and unsuppressed.
As far as the rifle vs carbine length, I always run rifle length on full frame AR’s. I’ve found with the heavier mass BCG and 308 and larger cases with the right setup you get a much better machine. Recoil is reduced and more importantly fatigue is mitigated. I’m currently building a 260 AR-10 using the JP SCS in a rifle length buffer and a PRS Gen 3. Using a JP FMOS BCG and their adjustable gas block.
@TacticalDillhole , that sounds like solid advice. I do realize that my toolkraft bcg is pretty heavy, and the large frame has a lot of snap when it goes in to battery. More spring (or better one) seems to make sense. Just finished the rifle and ordered a bunch more mags. Shouldve got a buffer tube. Only reason it has a carbine length now, is simply because I had the whole system, and it works.
I could caveat this for the JP SCS. There is no difference in the system if you run carbine vs full length. Only difference is in a rifle length you have to use a spacer but otherwise it’s the exact same spring set. You might try the SCS in your carbine buffer tube and make sure to get the H2 version of the SCS found here
https://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPSCS2-10H2
Bingo. That might be my answer, keep the kit, buy the spring. No can yet, but I do always run adjustable gas block. I'm thinking this addition will be happily welcomed
Just digging through forums for nuggets on the SCS. Does it affect the recoil impulse of the rifle?
I have a 308 AR w/ a 24 inch barrel, rifle length gas gas system and adjustable gas block. It's a solid .6-.7 MOA shooter when I'm prone or on a bench, but the recoil is rather sharp. I was looking into the SCS so that I could maybe turn this into a match rifle but all I read is that the JP SCS eliminates the spring noise, which I could care less about.
I have a 308 AR w/ a 24 inch barrel, rifle length gas gas system and adjustable gas block. It's a solid .6-.7 MOA shooter when I'm prone or on a bench, but the recoil is rather sharp. I was looking into the SCS so that I could maybe turn this into a match rifle but all I read is that the JP SCS eliminates the spring noise, which I could care less about.
Two schools of thought...
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
If it ain’t broke, fix it until it is.
How does the rifle run now? What issue are you trying to rectify with the change?
Spring noise? Grease the spring. Other than that, I’ve got SCSs in 2 rifles and they’re great. But, don’t break something that is working well, just to try a new shiny.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
If it ain’t broke, fix it until it is.
How does the rifle run now? What issue are you trying to rectify with the change?
Spring noise? Grease the spring. Other than that, I’ve got SCSs in 2 rifles and they’re great. But, don’t break something that is working well, just to try a new shiny.
I suppose you're right. Nothing is broke per say, I was just considering an upgrade to make the recoil impulse a little more pleasant - but all things said it's fine now. I was considering upgrading something as a birthday splurge :| but that money would probably be better spent on ammo or saving for a barrel when my match rifle burns out
I mean let’s be honest, is there such thing as a pleasant recoil impulse, especially on a gas gun?
I'm guessing you've never had a rail mounted fleshlight...
If you decide to go with the SCS, you might contemplate going with the H2 version. My 20 inch .308 LRP-07 needed the heavy version to work reliably (FMOS BCG). Very smooth and no twang.
My 18 inch SPR with A5 and AGB is incredibly smooth and pleasant to shoot. Almost a gentle twitch versus actual recoil. Much, much smoother recoil impulse than my 10.5 gun....and the 10.5 ain't a big deal.
@Billiam1211
If so what is the JP buffer weight ?
I tend to use heavier buffer weights and recoil springs in my rifle length Large Frame AR's
All my 308's and 6.5CM's use SLR Adj, GB's, Lantac brakes, and in the rifle length recoil systems... a 9.3oz .308 KAK buffer weight, and a Tubbs .308 Flatwire recoil spring .... softer shooting then the OEM setups by far,.... Winnie the Pooh now v. Linda Blair in the Exorcist before.
If so what is the JP buffer weight ?
I tend to use heavier buffer weights and recoil springs in my rifle length Large Frame AR's
All my 308's and 6.5CM's use SLR Adj, GB's, Lantac brakes, and in the rifle length recoil systems... a 9.3oz .308 KAK buffer weight, and a Tubbs .308 Flatwire recoil spring .... softer shooting then the OEM setups by far,.... Winnie the Pooh now v. Linda Blair in the Exorcist before.
if you're currently running the carbine-length buffer tube (7" inside depth), then for the AR-308, I think you should be using a 5.3oz 2.5" buffer. KAK or HeavyBuffer. I'd recommend the HeavyBuffer 308 carbine buffer spring paired with that 5.3oz buffer, about $15. Couple that with an adjustable gas block, and that gives you the capability to really fine-tune the combo.
Carbine buffer and rifle buffer weights will not be the same (for equivalent performance) because they use different springs, different spring length, probably different wire (I don't know), etc.
and something like wheel-bearing grease on the buffer spring, insides of the buffer tube, really help alleviate that "sproing" sound. Also make sure the roll pin on the buffer bumper is fully flush, not proud, otherwise for sure you're going to get the cheese grater sound every time the spring coils cycle over that.
I'm currently using a H2 buffer w/ factory Aero Precision recoil spring. I was thinking about just swapping the H2 out for the JP Enterprises H2 Silent Capture to see what would happen, but as I mentioned in comments above there's no actual problem with the rifle. I'm just fishing for things to improve
I am just double checking... ( since the 308 carbine patterns don't intermix ) what stock length, buffer tube length, and buffer length ?
And as for "tinkering" ... I do it all the time, and have been happy with the results. 99% of the time.
I have also run the .308 Tubbs flatwire in both the DPMS pattern ( AR15 carbine buffer tube and 2.5" buffer, also what AERO sells on their 308 webpage )
and the Armalite pattern ( Vltor length carbine buffer tube and a conv. AR15 3.25" carbine buffer length. )
Given its flatwire design , it will compress considerably more... so don't worry if the crazy long spring will fit.
FWIW... 2.5" buffers weight I use 5.4ish oz ( KAK ) and 3.25" 5.4oz
Bear in mind... a lot of people don't enjoy the Tubbs flatwire insertion into the buffer tube... but considering the Tubbs spring is supposed to last a LONG time.. its not like you will be taking it in and out a lot.
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Absolutely. My main blaster is a 16" rifle gas with about 6oz of reciprocating mass (buffer and bcg), reduced power spring, very aggressive brake, tuned to just lock back on 55's at 2600fps and 9lbs loaded. Everybody thinks their AR shoots soft, but this is next level.
I thought we were talking large frame not 5.56. I’m not even sure those recoil
You asked if a pleasant recoil impulse existed, especially in a gas gun (didn't specify large/small frame) and I answered. The fact that you think an average 5.56 AR doesn't recoil validates my last sentence also. Imagine a newborn child throwing small marshmallows at your shoulder and you'll be in the ballpark of a rifle tuned to the max to have a pleasant (nonexistent) recoil impulse.
I have a 24" 308, rifle gas, 3.7 lbs barrel weight, i.e. not super heavy, PA M4-72 brake, regular 308 BCG (nothing fancy), HeavyBuffer 308 carbine buffer spring, 5.3oz 308 carbine buffer, SLR adj GB. It's a pleasant shooter, from the bipod, no rear bag or anything, scope stays on target during the shot, observe impacts downrange (600yds and beyond). Can get back on target before preceding downrange impacts.
In comparison, my 14.5" 308, even with the PA M4-72 brake, same lower, is pretty violent.
So am I understanding correctly that you are using a 16" barrel with rifle length gas system. So what bgc and buffer you using at 6oz?
Is it ammo finicky ?
I have an 18" with a mid length that was giving me ejection issues. Was using a standard weight buffer, switched to heavybuffers.com 8.5 oz and it solved my problems.
Correct. Carrier is a Boomfab titanium, hair over 4oz, buffer is plastic and .6oz. I load all the ammo it shoots, light load is the above 55gr, heavy is a 77gr at 2700fps. It shoots that and anything in between great.
Edit for more info: its got over 20k rounds through it in either this or a very similar configuration and all of the malfunctions have been attributable to a worn out part (gas rings etc.) or me being lazy at the press (loose primer pockets, case head separations I didn't catch, a worn out sizing die) so far I haven't had any problems related to lack of gas, dwell time or reciprocating mass. For context I shoot regularly between 10 and 100 degrees, lots of sandy blowing range bays and my definition of maintenance is wiping off the BCG almost never and dumping oil in like its an old Toyota.
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