Gunsmithing Lathe Help / Questions

[avidflyer]

Going to post this over at Practical Machinist, but thought some of the guys here may have some answers……


GenePool and I purchased our first lathe over the weekend; trying to gather some info on it. I spoke with South Bend today and gave Mike the serial and catalog number. He didn’t have any reference info on the catalog number, but said he’d pull the serial card and send me the info. What I know so far:

Serial Number 10893TKT14
Catalog CL1BT
Motor 1HP 3 Phase
Bed Length 5

Some questions:

I bought this for gunsmithing and general hobby use. Obviously it’s a collet lathe, can I get a bigger headstock for this?

Its 3 phase, how do these run on a static converter? I know I’ll lose a 1/3 of a horse power, is that a huge deal. Static is about a 1/3 of the cost of a rotary converter.

If it won’t run on a static converter, what about getting a 220V single phase motor for it? Frame size any issue? I was told the controller/switch may not work well single phase or over heat.

Anyone using a VFD for a converter on a lathe?

Is the power turret of any general use? How does it compare to a standard lathe?

What tail stock will fit this, and can it be replaced?

I paid $600 for it delivered, how’s the price?

Any general info you can give me would be greatly appreciated…..

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

You didn't make it easy on yourself. Start looking on ebay for other accessories that will configure it the way you want it.

If you get another 3ph motor, you can wire it in to use as a rotary converter. This should eliminate all of your power worries as long as everything is sized properly.

 

[TacT-MecH]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

My machinest friend runs a VFD on all his equipment. 2-Lathes,
2-mills, and even a homemade 3 phase log splitter. He swears by them. Good luck on your lathe though. Keep us posted

 

[colchester]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

OK couple things. I think that machine has a threaded spindle so if you remove the collar on the spindle nose and remove the collet closer att. I think you can mount a chuck. That machine has a production crosslide, no compound attachment you will need to find a crosslide and compound. Your going to need to find a threading dial, Ill look I might have one around. The turret is going to be a bit dicey for chambering IMHO so I would think a tailstock is in the works as well. I would look for a small rotary converter or a vfd Im not a fan of the static converters. I think that is a 13" swing, it will be a good size for doing gun work but youll need to outfit it a bit

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: avidflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone using a VFD for a converter on a lathe?</div></div>

I use Hitachi WJ200 VFDs on both my lathe and my mill, running from single-phase 220V. They work great.

 

[avidflyer]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

thanks...ordered a static inverter for $48 to get us up and running. Anyone have a good lead for cheap parts?

 

[STR]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

For parts you can go to ebay. They have a lot, but you need to look all the time to get the things you need. Sometimes you can find whole lathe that's junked, but with all the parts you need for next to nothing. The left over parts can be cleaned up, and resold on ebay for more than you paid for the parts lathe. There are sellers on eBay that already do this on a regular basis.

 

[jrm850]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

I'm thinking to myself that the Turret tail might be the bomb for chambering. It is infinitely more adjustable than most standard tailstocks and easy to shim for height changes.

 

[STR]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrm850</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm thinking to myself that the Turret tail might be the bomb for chambering. It is infinitely more adjustable than most standard tailstocks and easy to shim for height changes. </div></div>

Yeeeah.... Not really the better way.

 

[avidflyer]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

Oz found a tail stock for $300....not a lot of them out there for a 13.

 

[STR]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: avidflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oz found a tail stock for $300....not a lot of them out there for a 13. </div></div>

You only need one. Grab it, LOL Just a little story about my Colchester. I bought it without a steady rest. I called Colchester, and they wanted $1800.00 with solid fingers, plus a 16 minimum wait time. I found one brand new in it's original box for $500.00 delivered with solid, and roller fingers/supports. Just gotta look a lot. Kind of like playing the stock market. Best of luck.

 

[jrm850]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrm850</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm thinking to myself that the Turret tail might be the bomb for chambering. It is infinitely more adjustable than most standard tailstocks and easy to shim for height changes. </div></div>

Yeeeah.... Not really the better way. </div></div>

Why? I haven't ever put my hands one so I'm not saying you are wrong, but there would appear to be some advantages.

The turret carriage rides on the bed ways and is beefy so it should definitely be more repeatable than locking down a standard tailstock with anything less than a fixed stop and a torgue wrench.

This turret can be perfectly aligned with the spindle but it is rare to be able to do that with a tailstock. Most tailstock quills are not perfectly aligned.

Faster retract speed and you don't have to change your setup every time you break out the depth mic.

The cons that I can think of all center around the manual drive. Is it one to one? Not enough feel or speed control?

 

[STR]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrm850</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrm850</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm thinking to myself that the Turret tail might be the bomb for chambering. It is infinitely more adjustable than most standard tailstocks and easy to shim for height changes. </div></div>

Yeeeah.... Not really the better way. </div></div>

Why? I haven't ever put my hands one so I'm not saying you are wrong, but there would appear to be some advantages.

The turret carriage rides on the bed ways and is beefy so it should definitely be more repeatable than locking down a standard tailstock with anything less than a fixed stop and a torgue wrench.

This turret can be perfectly aligned with the spindle but it is rare to be able to do that with a tailstock. Most tailstock quills are not perfectly aligned.

Faster retract speed and you don't have to change your setup every time you break out the depth mic.

The cons that I can think of all center around the manual drive. Is it one to one? Not enough feel or speed control?




</div></div>
Well, I'm not going to tell anyone they can't do something in a different way if that's what they want to try. First I'll address the tail stock alignment. If you know how to do it, the tail stock can be aligned to the head stock just fine. I understand what you mean about tightening down the tail stock, and not getting exact up and down alignment on every set up due to inconsistencies in torque. I use a floating reamer holder, so that matters not. I happen to use two different ones. The Manson, and the Bald Eagle from PTG which is nothing more than a one handle tap holder which you hold in your hand, and push with the tail stock. The tail stock has a dial which shows how far you've gone and at what speed you're doing it at. The tail stock is also easier to move in and out for me. Again, it's a personally prefered way for me, and most to use the tail stock.

The turret is just plain akward, big and heavy, not made for a finese feel while you're reaming a chamber, which if you dig to deep to fast can cause the reamer to get stuck and break. This is my reason for saying it's not really the better tool to use. I'm not saying it's impossible or wrong. I'm sure you could try it, and make it work just fine if you want it to. Shit, some people still chamber guns with the barrel in a vise, and turn the reamer with a tap handle by hand.

Back to tail stock alignment. It doesn't have to be aligned to with in .0001 like some people will have you believe to turn out 1/4 MOA rifles. I know that from experience that comes from trying my own ideas, and those of guys that have been doing it way before I even thought of trying it. Always keep an open mind to new things. I do. So if you or anyone else uses a production turret for chambering a rifle that turns out great, please share it. I'm always interested in learning more. Thanks.

 

[jrm850]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Well, I'm not going to tell anyone they can't do something in a different way if that's what they want to try. First I'll address the tail stock alignment. If you know how to do it, the tail stock can be aligned to the head stock just fine. I understand what you mean about tightening down the tail stock, and not getting exact up and down alignment on every set up due to inconsistencies in torque. I use a floating reamer holder, so that matters not. I happen to use two different ones. The Manson, and the Bald Eagle from PTG which is nothing more than a one handle tap holder which you hold in your hand, and push with the tail stock. The tail stock has a dial which shows how far you've gone and at what speed you're doing it at. The tail stock is also easier to move in and out for me. Again, it's a personally prefered way for me, and most to use the tail stock.

The turret is just plain akward, big and heavy, not made for a finese feel while you're reaming a chamber, which if you dig to deep to fast can cause the reamer to get stuck and break. This is my reason for saying it's not really the better tool to use. I'm not saying it's impossible or wrong. I'm sure you could try it, and make it work just fine if you want it to. Shit, some people still chamber guns with the barrel in a vise, and turn the reamer with a tap handle by hand.

Back to tail stock alignment. It doesn't have to be aligned to with in .0001 like some people will have you believe to turn out 1/4 MOA rifles. I know that from experience that comes from trying my own ideas, and those of guys that have been doing it way before I even thought of trying it. Always keep an open mind to new things. I do. So if you or anyone else uses a production turret for chambering a rifle that turns out great, please share it. I'm always interested in learning more. Thanks. </div></div>

I can see the size and lack of feel being a problem. I've never used one so I don't really have any perspective for what it feels like. I was just looking at the alignment issues compared to my lathe. Like you, I'm always wondering if there is a better way

 

[jonesturf]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

That's a cool looking beast. In case you don't know there is a South Bend Yahoo user group that has tons of info on file and a lot of knowledgeable guys to help. Another plus is that a lot of them have parts laying around. I am rebuilding 2 Heavy 10's and they and Practical Machinist have both been a big help.

There is also a book on ebay about restoring SB lathes that might come in handy if you need it. Its a very good book and explains a lot. I purchased it as mine are complete teardowns. Yours looks in much better shape. You may not need it as you can find a lot of the info from help on the forums as well as the Files section of the user group. Good luck.

 

[jonesturf]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-13-La...=item35c192daa6

Here's a tailstock if you didn't grab one already. Tons of stuff on ebay.

How are they ways? Are they in good shape? I think you got a nice deal. That collet lever system is worth half of what you paid for it.

+1 on the Hitachi VFD's

 

[Gene Poole]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jonesturf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-13-La...=item35c192daa6

Here's a tailstock if you didn't grab one already. Tons of stuff on ebay.

How are they ways? Are they in good shape? I think you got a nice deal. That collet lever system is worth half of what you paid for it.

+1 on the Hitachi VFD's </div></div>

Nice find, but we already ordered a tailstock elsewhere for about that same price shipped, but that looks to be in a tad better shape. It's coming together: a phase converter, tailstock, steady-rest, Buck chuck, and a compound and thread-index on the way.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

It's getting there. Well done.

 

[Mcoop8]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

This is a post from another thread. Ill follow up with contact info.

I have a SB 14 that came with an off brand 3 jaw chuck and it is not so bad to indicate in. I wanted a 4 jaw and was looking all over for the correct D1-3 back. I found a few and was going to go with a buck + a backing plate. Then I ran across a gentleman that used to work for SB and purchased a bunch of NOS when they closed. He had a 4 jaw independent chuck made by SB still in the box. it took a little cleaning up but it is nice. If you want I will contact him to see if it is OK to post his contact info on this forum.

 

[Mcoop8]

Re: Lathe Help / Questions

This is the contact info I mentioned in my other post from the other thread..... As it mentions Ted knows his stuff about
SB lathes. I wish I had a 13 I would be trying to buy the turret and collet holder from you. I Like for production..............

The SB guy I mentioned earlier said it would be ok to post his contact info as he would be glad to help.

His name is Ted Pflugner and his email is [email protected]

He is a wealth of knowledge and he has access to all kinds of SB parts.