Cedar, of course! (but that was pine). I don't know where they ended up. I was given several notices that I was scheduled to appear, but they all got cancelled (plea deals?). They're probably out by now, it was about three years ago. Those same cameras in that video had them dead to rights lugging that stuff out of their car and into the store. Funny thing is, I spied them casing our neighborhood Fri. afternoon and new they were trouble. Yet, like an idiot, I forgot to go back out before bedtime and remove that stuff and lock my truck. Stupid! Learned my lesson, though.
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Lawsuit - 4X4 is Only 3.5 Inches
- Thread starter Tucker301
- Start date
I forgot the funniest part of this story. When this happened, all of that stuff I listed in that bag was nearly impossible to get in the wake of Sandy Hook and the prospect of HRC coming in. I just knew I would be forever trying to replace it. After I filed my report Sat. AM and had my list of everything I was missing, I went online Sat. PM, and I'll be darned if Midway didn't have all those mags and that conversion barrel in stock! So, I figured I might not get a chance to find it all again, and I swallowed hard, bit the bullet, and ponied up the money to replace it all on a single order. THEN I get the call from the PD on Mon. AM saying they had all my stuff and I could come get it. Order from Midway shows up a day or two later and then I had double-everything. Since I got my old one back, I gave the new G23 conversion barrel to a young man at church, who has a growing family to provide for and has a G23 as his only handgun, and could appreciate the cheaper price of 9mm ammo to afford more practice. The rest I stockpiled. Wife was not as amused with my double cache as I was, but was tolerant at least. "But Honey, how was I to know they'd EVER recover it?"
AJ... we have lumberyards like that up here too. They do full dimension for restorations. And they are always busy.
As I worked in construction a couple of summers in high school, fixing up old houses, we also learned really fast how to cut a furring strip and face nail it to a 'short' 2 x 4... or cut down 2 x 6's. Or siamese two 2 x 4's together. There are a million tricks. And not all are efficient with lumber. But in old house restoration, what's a few extra 2 x 4's? If you have to have the full dimension stuff, you don't go to Home Depot! Unless you have a man bun.
In fact, building the loading room this winter... the outer walls of the barn were all 2 x 4. Never designed to be insulated and curtain walls. So all those 2 x 4's had to be turned into 2 x 6'as. Solution... rip a few 2 x 4's face nail them and done. You'd have to be an idiot not to be able to figure that out.
Or a lawyer, I guess.
Cheers,
Sirhr
As I worked in construction a couple of summers in high school, fixing up old houses, we also learned really fast how to cut a furring strip and face nail it to a 'short' 2 x 4... or cut down 2 x 6's. Or siamese two 2 x 4's together. There are a million tricks. And not all are efficient with lumber. But in old house restoration, what's a few extra 2 x 4's? If you have to have the full dimension stuff, you don't go to Home Depot! Unless you have a man bun.
In fact, building the loading room this winter... the outer walls of the barn were all 2 x 4. Never designed to be insulated and curtain walls. So all those 2 x 4's had to be turned into 2 x 6'as. Solution... rip a few 2 x 4's face nail them and done. You'd have to be an idiot not to be able to figure that out.
Or a lawyer, I guess.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Try explaining linear to brd/ft to the average homeowner and their eyes just glaze over.
We're reaching a point where an increasing number of idiots don't know the difference between chipboard and Chippendale.
We're reaching a point where an increasing number of idiots don't know the difference between chipboard and Chippendale.
Well, I worked for years as a Millwright in a sawmill in Northern B.C. Logs entered the mill at one end, (brought to the mill yard by either truck or tug) and rough lumber stacked 'n stripped came out the other end.
Then it sat in the wood yard for some time, to 'initiate' drying,,,,, then it all went into the kilns. From there into the planer, after-which it was graded then stacked and wrapped for shipping.
SPF (Spruce/Pine/Fir) Finlay Premium
I've seen a lot of J-Grade come out of that area. That's "Japan Grade" to which they pay 4-6 times the North American rate for a 'perfect' piece of dimensional lumber. No knots, wane, warp, and perfectly straight grain. Sometimes also known as "clear" lumber.
Point is though, in setting up the heads, bands, and saws... it doesn't start off on the round number dimensions anymore. The saw-fillers and saw-fitters are so good at what they do nowadays that only the BARE MINIMUM of 'extra' wood is left on for shrinkage and planing.
Those who're involved in starting this bullshit lawsuit seriously need some wall-to-wall negotiations. What are they gonna do next, sue the automobile industry for 'car' or 'truck' terminology? Can you say "El Camino"?
And yes Guy, you're absolutely right. the "Foot-Board-Measure" is an alien concept which is incomputable by most nowadays. And our mill ran an average of 300,000 FBM each 8 hour shift. We ran 3 shifts a day, 5 days a week. Now if only the hybrid'ers could plant some square trees, then we'd kick things up a notch!
Then it sat in the wood yard for some time, to 'initiate' drying,,,,, then it all went into the kilns. From there into the planer, after-which it was graded then stacked and wrapped for shipping.
SPF (Spruce/Pine/Fir) Finlay Premium
I've seen a lot of J-Grade come out of that area. That's "Japan Grade" to which they pay 4-6 times the North American rate for a 'perfect' piece of dimensional lumber. No knots, wane, warp, and perfectly straight grain. Sometimes also known as "clear" lumber.
Point is though, in setting up the heads, bands, and saws... it doesn't start off on the round number dimensions anymore. The saw-fillers and saw-fitters are so good at what they do nowadays that only the BARE MINIMUM of 'extra' wood is left on for shrinkage and planing.
Those who're involved in starting this bullshit lawsuit seriously need some wall-to-wall negotiations. What are they gonna do next, sue the automobile industry for 'car' or 'truck' terminology? Can you say "El Camino"?
And yes Guy, you're absolutely right. the "Foot-Board-Measure" is an alien concept which is incomputable by most nowadays. And our mill ran an average of 300,000 FBM each 8 hour shift. We ran 3 shifts a day, 5 days a week. Now if only the hybrid'ers could plant some square trees, then we'd kick things up a notch!
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So many ways to skin this cat. Just a modicum of common sense can get you into the winners circle. We could take this into page after page of idiotic experiences, but in the interest of mankind I will say this, and we both know it. You can do a lot of things and still have a favorable outcome. BUT, if you are working outta plum, know painfully clear you have a foundation issue and choose to ignore it, it's not only the nightmare of squaring a circle, but when you do realize "I'm gonna have to address that foundation issue now somewhere down the road" THEN the real nightmare begins. I won't bore you with the fiasco blow by blow, but this project for a friends place, who unfortunately just passed, was exactly like the movie "The Money Pit". My friend had very deep pockets, was terminal, and was always telling the 5 of us that did everything for him "Guy's, just get it done". He was an amazing man and is missed greatly. The place sold in 4 days for half a million. We've met and befriended the new owner who also has very very deep pockets and just wants to be one of the guys. He wants to shoot and learn reloading and we still get to kill Elk on the property.
Couple pics of the place and my dear friend Ron. RIP Brother.
I know you'll enjoy these shots for what they are. It was a helluva run and project and an incredible Home built around 1884 I believe. A better friendship to be sure. He fought Colon Cancer for so long. I've never seen anyone fight so hard for so long. He always said "I'm going to be the healthiest dead guy to ever be buried", and he was. Mad respect Ron.
Love that corner door... I have to remember that feature for the future. Because that is cool!
Nice job on the place.
BTW, the guy I worked for Roland (old French Vermonter) was a barn straightener. So every morning before we went to work on the various houses we were refurbing, we would drive around to the 3 or 4 barns that were being put back onto plumb with jacks and bobs and columns. It would take all summer to straighten a barn. Move handles an 1/8th of a turn or a 1/4 turn or a 1/2 a turn each morning and sometimes each night. Cables running this way and that with turn buckles. He was all crippled up by that time, but he would tell me and my friend which ones to turn and how much. He listened to the building. Would listen to the cables.
But he could take a barn with a huge roof sway in it and have it straight as an arrow and plumb in a summer. All reinforced. Repaired footers and headers.
I don't even know if there are any old-time barn straighteners left. I think now it's all contractors who cut stuff apart an put in new lumber. But if push came to shove, I still remember how he did it.
Yeah.... going to the local lumberyard (or Home Depot) on a weekend is painful. Listening to the metrosexuals and their ignorance of anything related to DIY is pathetic. Had one guy in front of me at hardware store a few weeks ago. He had a broken pipe and was asking cashier how to sweat pipes. Off he went out back to buy a torch and solder and.... I assume, burn his house down. When he walked away, I asked the clerk if we should just preemptively call the fire department.....
Cheers,
Sirhr
Nice job on the place.
BTW, the guy I worked for Roland (old French Vermonter) was a barn straightener. So every morning before we went to work on the various houses we were refurbing, we would drive around to the 3 or 4 barns that were being put back onto plumb with jacks and bobs and columns. It would take all summer to straighten a barn. Move handles an 1/8th of a turn or a 1/4 turn or a 1/2 a turn each morning and sometimes each night. Cables running this way and that with turn buckles. He was all crippled up by that time, but he would tell me and my friend which ones to turn and how much. He listened to the building. Would listen to the cables.
But he could take a barn with a huge roof sway in it and have it straight as an arrow and plumb in a summer. All reinforced. Repaired footers and headers.
I don't even know if there are any old-time barn straighteners left. I think now it's all contractors who cut stuff apart an put in new lumber. But if push came to shove, I still remember how he did it.
Yeah.... going to the local lumberyard (or Home Depot) on a weekend is painful. Listening to the metrosexuals and their ignorance of anything related to DIY is pathetic. Had one guy in front of me at hardware store a few weeks ago. He had a broken pipe and was asking cashier how to sweat pipes. Off he went out back to buy a torch and solder and.... I assume, burn his house down. When he walked away, I asked the clerk if we should just preemptively call the fire department.....
Cheers,
Sirhr
You have no idea how hard I'm laughing right now. Oh my god. I love this thread. I know exactly what you're saying though. We have a couple seasoned boys who are very talented and are all about the old school doctrine that you speak of. Cut n paste if you will, or must, but patience, jacks, cables, I beams and/or railroad tracks can, and do, work wonders. The 'listen to the building' reference gave me chills. It's true though, and you know it. We had people on the second floor, first floor, and under this place and another friends place watching and listening to what was happening real time throughout. I'm not ashamed to tell you on the one place I heard 'get the hell out from under there" very clearly. Scooted out from under that place in record time. Nothing happened, but that's the way I like it.
Creaking is ok, popping makes me skeered.
I am looking at that corner door again and thinking that it's a heck of a framing job to take the load of the upper corner.... and cantilever it out like that. It took me a minute to figure out how they did it. But it's really brilliant!
I'll be filing that one away!
Cheers,
Sirhr
I'll be filing that one away!
Cheers,
Sirhr
It has me? Does the outside door frame go all the way to the eave to support the corner?????????
If you ever need some restorative stonemasonry let me know. Ive restored work in 200 year old houses so you couldnt see where the original ended and the new began. It aint cheap.
Ha! I was thinking about that last night after I went to bed and didn't have the picture to look at to figure it out. What did you come up with - 6x6 (sorry, 5-1/2x5-1/2) beams forming the corner above the door frame and door frame as well?
I'm thinking the framing from foundation to eaves is beveled, and a 'false corner' was installed on the second floor utilizing a cantilevered floor joist. But that's just me, and how I'd do it..... from the beginning. Though I worked in a lumber manufacturing facility for years, I am not a "Frame-ologist".... so what do I know?
Yup, I am betting on two cantilevered floor joists that extend out to make the point. If they siamesed several 2 x 8's or even 2 x 12's, they could easily handle the load extended out a couple of feet to a point. Plus I don't know what snow loads are there, but with a sharp roof point, there would be no problem at all handling the corner. Like I said, it took me a few minutes to figure out how I would do it... and it's simple. Today, with engineered lumber (or even steel reinforcing plates bolted on.
Like I said, I'm filing that one away for the future!
Cheers,
Sirhr
Like I said, I'm filing that one away for the future!
Cheers,
Sirhr
20 yrs ago that place had a HUUUUUGE Barn just below on the next level down by the fields. It's 80 Acres My kids grew up playing around here and basketball in the loft of the barn. The house was a mess back then. When Ron bought this place 8 yrs ago, he and his significant others 4th home (1 in CA, 2 in Astoria OR right across the street from each other on the hill by the College, and this place) they were all in right off the bat. They were from L.A., very wealthy, no bullshit people, became like family in a very short amount of time, and very generous for those willing to do (work) what they wanted. Took awhile to convince them to let 2 of us only have the green light to kill Elk on the property. They weren't really tree huggers, but really close. 2 friends worked full time on this place for 2 yrs. The Home is all that was there at the beginning. Over the 8 yrs they had the place 5 of us did everything on the place. The fields and all the shenanigans that go along with that, built a two bay garage, a $5,000 dollar chicken coop , a pole building/shop/with attached apartment, the entire deck, and everything and I mean everything regarding the Home.
Inside, outside, on top of, underneath, the whole gambit was for us to knock out. Some at our leisure whenever we had some spare time, some ring ring ring "hello" hey it's Ron I need/want NOW. He, they were on a time line. He was dying when we met and wasn't suppose to make it to Christmas the first year we met. They were in the Medical Billing Industry in Cali so they not only had bank, but they knew the system and treatment that gave you the best chance at longevity. Watching him go was difficult. I would take him to radiation and chemo appointments, all of us did, and it was brutal. Anyhow I see where I'm going already with this so I'll stop. Becoming War and Peace and it wasn't my intent. I'll keep it brief and answer your posts best I can.
vh20: You know how it is tearing apart a place that has old growth lumber/timbers in it. The places with square/box nails throughout the place. Ton of tongue n groove, and 1x throughout. Veneer? What's that? lol We saved every damn piece of original wood we could. The walls were stuffed with everything from paper to old toys. And Bats. 100's of Bats and guano. Good lord. It was very important to them that the wood stay natural and save every bit we could. We tore this place apart top to bottom. All hand sanded. No grinders at their insistence and cost. When we were finishing the floors it reminded me of Boot Camp. Swimming the Deck with socks on your hands and towels polishing and polishing.
Sir: Knowing my incredibly talented friends and know they can make anything they damn near want to, much like you, it was a feat for sure and something they didn't see coming until "Hey, let's chop this corner off and put a door out to the back deck right here". Not "Hey, what do you think about......." Didn't happen that way. It was boxed in upstairs n downstairs and has more milled beams than I can remember. Wasn't my project, I'm not a carpenter. I'm a real good gopher, yard tard, hey ya need another beer kinda guy. Ya, a grunt. I wish I had the pics of it being done. On my old phone that's long dead n gone. Lost so many pics that couldn't get moved from the ole flip up phone.
rlwilson: Yes it does. But it's framed/boxed top and bottom and has the aforementioned milled beams going through and the ends of the 'cradle'? all the way up. That corner isn't holding hardly anything anymore. It's hella stronger than it was before the chop chop. You know how it is listening to a bunch of guys brainstorming original ideas. Then outta left field someone comes up with an idea, while not cost effective, brilliant. There are many unique features to this place. Inside and out. Like Bowling Alley Lanes for counter tops and bathroom basin tops.
, a pole building/shop/with attached apartment, the entire deck, and everything and I mean everything regarding the Home. Inside, outside, on top of, underneath, the whole gambit was for us to knock out. Some at our leisure whenever we had some spare time, some ring ring ring "hello" hey it's Ron I need/want NOW. He, they were on a time line. He was dying when we met and wasn't suppose to make it to Christmas the first year we met. They were in the Medical Billing Industry in Cali so they not only had bank, but they knew the system and treatment that gave you the best chance at longevity. Watching him go was difficult. I would take him to radiation and chemo appointments, all of us did, and it was brutal. Anyhow I see where I'm going already with this so I'll stop. Becoming War and Peace and it wasn't my intent. I'll keep it brief and answer your posts best I can.
vh20: You know how it is tearing apart a place that has old growth lumber/timbers in it. The places with square/box nails throughout the place. Ton of tongue n groove, and 1x throughout. Veneer? What's that? lol We saved every damn piece of original wood we could. The walls were stuffed with everything from paper to old toys. And Bats. 100's of Bats and guano. Good lord. It was very important to them that the wood stay natural and save every bit we could. We tore this place apart top to bottom. All hand sanded. No grinders at their insistence and cost. When we were finishing the floors it reminded me of Boot Camp. Swimming the Deck with socks on your hands and towels polishing and polishing.
Sir: Knowing my incredibly talented friends and know they can make anything they damn near want to, much like you, it was a feat for sure and something they didn't see coming until "Hey, let's chop this corner off and put a door out to the back deck right here". Not "Hey, what do you think about......." Didn't happen that way.
It was boxed in upstairs n downstairs and has more milled beams than I can remember. Wasn't my project, I'm not a carpenter. I'm a real good gopher, yard tard, hey ya need another beer kinda guy. Ya, a grunt. I wish I had the pics of it being done. On my old phone that's long dead n gone. Lost so many pics that couldn't get moved from the ole flip up phone. rlwilson: Yes it does. But it's framed/boxed top and bottom and has the aforementioned milled beams going through and the ends of the 'cradle'? all the way up. That corner isn't holding hardly anything anymore. It's hella stronger than it was before the chop chop.
You know how it is listening to a bunch of guys brainstorming original ideas. Then outta left field someone comes up with an idea, while not cost effective, brilliant. There are many unique features to this place. Inside and out. Like Bowling Alley Lanes for counter tops and bathroom basin tops.
Too many pics. I screwed it up bad. Had a great story an answers that I'm not gonna repeat. God Dammit. So here's some pics. You can only have so many per post so it ate my awesome post.
Tucker: There are two full time ponds and sometimes a lake on this property.
One between the fenced garden (Deer n Elk) and the Shop.
And one on the left by the chairs.
And one real big one full of Duck during the Winter in the lower 40.
Otherwise it stays pretty good down there. Good enough to make Hay.
Tucker: There are two full time ponds and sometimes a lake on this property.
One between the fenced garden (Deer n Elk) and the Shop.
And one on the left by the chairs.
And one real big one full of Duck during the Winter in the lower 40.
Otherwise it stays pretty good down there. Good enough to make Hay.
20 yrs ago that place had a HUUUUUGE Barn just below on the next level down by the fields. It's 80 Acres My kids grew up playing around here and basketball in the loft of the barn. The house was a mess back then. When Ron bought this place 8 yrs ago, he and his significant others 4th home (1 in CA, 2 in Astoria OR right across the street from each other on the hill by the College, and this place) they were all in right off the bat. They were from L.A., very wealthy, no bullshit people, became like family in a very short amount of time, and very generous for those willing to do (work) what they wanted. Took awhile to convince them to let 2 of us only have the green light to kill Elk on the property. They weren't really tree huggers, but really close. 2 friends worked full time on this place for 2 yrs. The Home is all that was there at the beginning. Over the 8 yrs they had the place 5 of us did everything on the place. The fields and all the shenanigans that go along with that, built a two bay garage, a $5,000 dollar chicken coop
Inside, outside, on top of, underneath, the whole gambit was for us to knock out. Some at our leisure whenever we had some spare time, some ring ring ring "hello" hey it's Ron I need/want NOW. He, they were on a time line. He was dying when we met and wasn't suppose to make it to Christmas the first year we met. They were in the Medical Billing Industry in Cali so they not only had bank, but they knew the system and treatment that gave you the best chance at longevity. Watching him go was difficult. I would take him to radiation and chemo appointments, all of us did, and it was brutal. Anyhow I see where I'm going already with this so I'll stop. Becoming War and Peace and it wasn't my intent. I'll keep it brief and answer your posts best I can.
vh20: You know how it is tearing apart a place that has old growth lumber/timbers in it. The places with square/box nails throughout the place. Ton of tongue n groove, and 1x throughout. Veneer? What's that? lol We saved every damn piece of original wood we could. The walls were stuffed with everything from paper to old toys. And Bats. 100's of Bats and guano. Good lord. It was very important to them that the wood stay natural and save every bit we could. We tore this place apart top to bottom. All hand sanded. No grinders at their insistence and cost. When we were finishing the floors it reminded me of Boot Camp. Swimming the Deck with socks on your hands and towels polishing and polishing.
Sir: Knowing my incredibly talented friends and know they can make anything they damn near want to, much like you, it was a feat for sure and something they didn't see coming until "Hey, let's chop this corner off and put a door out to the back deck right here". Not "Hey, what do you think about......." Didn't happen that way.
rlwilson: Yes it does. But it's framed/boxed top and bottom and has the aforementioned milled beams going through and the ends of the 'cradle'? all the way up. That corner isn't holding hardly anything anymore. It's hella stronger than it was before the chop chop.
The paper roll is empty - fail.
I guess ya just get used to it. It's the Evergreen State. And it likes to be watered.
It's probably why there isn't a lot of people around here which I love and there's just so damn much to do. It's really not as bad as ya think. But then again I may have water on the Brain......No, his significant other, Stephanie,and he were together for almost 30 yrs, never married. Both married previously and didn't wanna do it again. No electric sanders because once it's gone it's gone. They were adamant that they remove any error possible of destroying the floors anywhere in the home. Belt sanders can and do get carried away, never the operator.
I get their concern and they're signing the check. No problem.
Given the orientation of the flooring boards in the second floor pics, I'd say the floor joists run perpendicular to the gable end wall. You can see in the second floor pics that the trunk shown in a few is directly over that door. Given the year of construction and the local, it would be a good bet that there is also a solid sawn beam (4x8 to 5x10 in size, based on height between floors) that runs across the room from the opposite wall (past the staircase opening), out to the end of the cantilever. I also see evidence that a wall once stood on top of that beam, looking at the floor damage in pics 4, 5, and 6 of 1J's first post.
1J: Why are the fenestration head heights 8ft in the central section when they seem to be 6'-8" everywhere else?
As to the original topic, wait till these idiots start buying CMU. 7 5/8 x 15 5/8 just doesn't roll off the tongue like 8x16.
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jr, if you're talking about the four windows on the left here
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compared to the windows to the right it's because that section was all added on. Wrap around porch with eaves and that section with the four windows is a green room for plants. They did what they did. Again, I'm 'not' a carpenter, I'm a gopher and good little soldier that does what he's told.
edit: and oh ya, like I said earlier, it's been like the movie "The Money Pit". Literally I want this and make it happen $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Well I think we should get a class action law suit going from the hide. My dollar isnt worth a dollar anymore.
Sirhr,
Had a buddy with the corner door and he hated it due to it letting in the water and snow load. It did open in wards but the water seemed to bend and run fit into his doorway.
It looks very cool and if you could have some type of extended roof coming off it to give you some cover it would be a winner.
