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Suppressors Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
- Thread starter HotIce
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Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
if your talking about RNL then this great article I read strongly recommends against it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-'Round-nose lead' (or RNL) are generally revolver bullets without any metal jacket around the bullet. These are worthless for self-defense, and I don't even use them at the range. If you come upon a bargain lot of RNL ammo, feel free to buy it for target practice. You will be scrubbing out your barel until the wee hours, however, as all-lead bullets scum up barrels something fierce. Use 'Flitz' metal polish to scour out the grimy residue.</div></div>
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
if your talking about RNL then this great article I read strongly recommends against it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-'Round-nose lead' (or RNL) are generally revolver bullets without any metal jacket around the bullet. These are worthless for self-defense, and I don't even use them at the range. If you come upon a bargain lot of RNL ammo, feel free to buy it for target practice. You will be scrubbing out your barel until the wee hours, however, as all-lead bullets scum up barrels something fierce. Use 'Flitz' metal polish to scour out the grimy residue.</div></div>
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
Hotice,
A friend of mine was shooting hard cast bullets, that shot great out of a Firestar, in a Glock. He got a Kaaboom ! He has since switched to an aftermarket barrel and heavier recoil spring and can now shoot these loads. Some barrels will not shoot cast safely. I remember reading an article in a gun magazine years ago where the guy shot 3 or 4 rounds and then Kaaboom.
david
Hotice,
A friend of mine was shooting hard cast bullets, that shot great out of a Firestar, in a Glock. He got a Kaaboom ! He has since switched to an aftermarket barrel and heavier recoil spring and can now shoot these loads. Some barrels will not shoot cast safely. I remember reading an article in a gun magazine years ago where the guy shot 3 or 4 rounds and then Kaaboom.
david
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
I'm sure you've heard the theory.
Polygonal rifling shaves minute pieces of lead from each round fired, slowing squeezing down the bore diameter and raising pressures to higher and higher levels with each shot.
Personally I've never had any issues with the occasional lead roundnose load. I've never had a kaboom but I've never won the lottery either. But somewhere somebody's probably buying that winning ticket right now.....
I'm sure you've heard the theory.
Polygonal rifling shaves minute pieces of lead from each round fired, slowing squeezing down the bore diameter and raising pressures to higher and higher levels with each shot.
Personally I've never had any issues with the occasional lead roundnose load. I've never had a kaboom but I've never won the lottery either. But somewhere somebody's probably buying that winning ticket right now.....
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
I wouldn't do it in a GLOCK, but have no problem slinging lead out of other handguns.
Get yourself an aftermarket barrel if you want to sling lead.
" But somewhere somebody's probably buying that winning ticket right now....."
That's classic.
I wouldn't do it in a GLOCK, but have no problem slinging lead out of other handguns.
Get yourself an aftermarket barrel if you want to sling lead.
" But somewhere somebody's probably buying that winning ticket right now....."
That's classic.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
HotIce,
I shot about 1500 hard cast lead rds through a factory Glock 20C barrel. It always functioned flawlessly but I have since heard about the pressure buildup from the lead in the barrel so I would probably advise against it. Not only that but it leaves the gun a filthy mess. If I were going to do it all over again I would buy a Glock 20 and an aftermarket barrel for woods protection to shoot hard cast bullets and use my other G20 for everything else.
HotIce,
I shot about 1500 hard cast lead rds through a factory Glock 20C barrel. It always functioned flawlessly but I have since heard about the pressure buildup from the lead in the barrel so I would probably advise against it. Not only that but it leaves the gun a filthy mess. If I were going to do it all over again I would buy a Glock 20 and an aftermarket barrel for woods protection to shoot hard cast bullets and use my other G20 for everything else.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
Most guys shooting lead out of a hexagonal barrel are reloading and doing so low side of powder charge index. Ammunition loaded to high side of powder index with a lead fouled barrel is just begging for KA_BOOM. Recommend you buy a rifled barrel if you want to run lead. Storm Lake advertises they make a drop-in for Glock. Brownells carries Storm Lake.
Most guys shooting lead out of a hexagonal barrel are reloading and doing so low side of powder charge index. Ammunition loaded to high side of powder index with a lead fouled barrel is just begging for KA_BOOM. Recommend you buy a rifled barrel if you want to run lead. Storm Lake advertises they make a drop-in for Glock. Brownells carries Storm Lake.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
No, this won't be in a Glock, but in an EAA Witness Elite Match (basically, a Tanfoglio) which I've been eyeballing for a while.
I am told it has polygonal rifling, but EAA did not reply to confirm that yet.
No, this won't be in a Glock, but in an EAA Witness Elite Match (basically, a Tanfoglio) which I've been eyeballing for a while.
I am told it has polygonal rifling, but EAA did not reply to confirm that yet.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
Verify and stick to manufacturer recommendations is my suggestion or make a different choice for lead.
Verify and stick to manufacturer recommendations is my suggestion or make a different choice for lead.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
In my area we have a lot of people shooting lead in Glock and HK polygonal rifling. There is no doubt that the lead builds up quickly. You can take a look at a 22LR rifle shooting lead and see that it's fairly fast buildup compared to a plated or jacketed bullet.
With that being said, many of them are now shooting bullets with numerous types of coating on them. Most of the coatings create a lot of smoke.
Recently someone local to me as started distributing his own line of coated cast lead bullets. I haven't personally loaded them but one of my friends, who is much more experienced reloader than I, has loaded a lot of them.
After inspecting his barrel after 100-200 rounds in a session there is no left over residue a bore snake wouldn't take out. I'm not a fan of the bore snake myself but that is another story
I personally wouldn't shoot a non-coated lead bullet in an HK or Glock and haven't personally loaded any of the coated ones in my guns, but have seen and shot some he has loaded without issue.
I don't want to post the exact bullets I'm referring to as the fellow isn't a sponsor here and I think he's as busy as he can be to begin with.
In my area we have a lot of people shooting lead in Glock and HK polygonal rifling. There is no doubt that the lead builds up quickly. You can take a look at a 22LR rifle shooting lead and see that it's fairly fast buildup compared to a plated or jacketed bullet.
With that being said, many of them are now shooting bullets with numerous types of coating on them. Most of the coatings create a lot of smoke.
Recently someone local to me as started distributing his own line of coated cast lead bullets. I haven't personally loaded them but one of my friends, who is much more experienced reloader than I, has loaded a lot of them.
After inspecting his barrel after 100-200 rounds in a session there is no left over residue a bore snake wouldn't take out. I'm not a fan of the bore snake myself but that is another story
I personally wouldn't shoot a non-coated lead bullet in an HK or Glock and haven't personally loaded any of the coated ones in my guns, but have seen and shot some he has loaded without issue.
I don't want to post the exact bullets I'm referring to as the fellow isn't a sponsor here and I think he's as busy as he can be to begin with.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
I've shot lead out of my glock and hk. I never had any issues but I did clean after a night out at the range. Cleaning was a little bit of a pain but I had a system that worked well and never had any problems. All my loads were 45autos and I had them loaded pretty light. Just remember to clean and don't switch to a jacketed bullet until you remove all the lead from the barrel.
I've shot lead out of my glock and hk. I never had any issues but I did clean after a night out at the range. Cleaning was a little bit of a pain but I had a system that worked well and never had any problems. All my loads were 45autos and I had them loaded pretty light. Just remember to clean and don't switch to a jacketed bullet until you remove all the lead from the barrel.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
I shoot lead out of both of my Glocks with absolutely no issue UNDER THESE CONDITIONS
I shoot an extremely hard lead alloy that I quench by dropping it from the mould into water. The hardness is 35.5+ HBn
Soft, pure lead is about 6-7 HBn, Wheel weights run about 15 (still too soft)
You need to get it over 24 HBn before I saw no leading issues.
Even still, every few hundred rounds, just out of habit, I fire a mag full of hot jacketed loads and that scrapes the barrel clean if there IS any leading.
I have gone as far as 1000 rounds of 175 TC hard cast in my Glock 20 without leading being visible in the barrel (no jacketed loads fired).
If you're not making the bullets and testing the alloy for the hardness yourself then I would suggest you don't do it. 99% of the lead cast bullets on the market you can buy are too soft.
There is a guy in Philadelphia that will make super hard lead for you if you ask. He gave my dad the recipe for the super hard alloy. I was asked not to share it because that's his business. If you're interested, I will get you his contact info from my dad and you can see what he has to offer.
I shoot lead out of both of my Glocks with absolutely no issue UNDER THESE CONDITIONS
I shoot an extremely hard lead alloy that I quench by dropping it from the mould into water. The hardness is 35.5+ HBn
Soft, pure lead is about 6-7 HBn, Wheel weights run about 15 (still too soft)
You need to get it over 24 HBn before I saw no leading issues.
Even still, every few hundred rounds, just out of habit, I fire a mag full of hot jacketed loads and that scrapes the barrel clean if there IS any leading.
I have gone as far as 1000 rounds of 175 TC hard cast in my Glock 20 without leading being visible in the barrel (no jacketed loads fired).
If you're not making the bullets and testing the alloy for the hardness yourself then I would suggest you don't do it. 99% of the lead cast bullets on the market you can buy are too soft.
There is a guy in Philadelphia that will make super hard lead for you if you ask. He gave my dad the recipe for the super hard alloy. I was asked not to share it because that's his business. If you're interested, I will get you his contact info from my dad and you can see what he has to offer.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
I use the Lee tumble lube 200 swc in my HK usp and 15000 rds later no KB's lead bullets need to be tuned to the gun. Dont shoot jacketed bullets in the gun with out cleaning the barrel first. I hear people talk about firing a few jacketed bullets to clean lead out of the barrel this to me sound like a good way to make a disaster happen 2 feet from your face. Good luck and be safe I have had a KB(1911) it was no fun.
I use the Lee tumble lube 200 swc in my HK usp and 15000 rds later no KB's lead bullets need to be tuned to the gun. Dont shoot jacketed bullets in the gun with out cleaning the barrel first. I hear people talk about firing a few jacketed bullets to clean lead out of the barrel this to me sound like a good way to make a disaster happen 2 feet from your face. Good luck and be safe I have had a KB(1911) it was no fun.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zia shooter 1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hear people talk about firing a few jacketed bullets to clean lead out of the barrel this to me sound like a good way to make a disaster happen 2 feet from your face. </div></div>
I've done it many many times in both general types of rifling. I've tested it specifically, if ALL of my results didn't show it to be a safe practice I wouldn't suggest it to anyone.
I've gone so far as to turn wadcutters from solid brass to see if that worked any better. It does, you just shoot a couple more rounds with the jacketed bullets and you're back to the starting point. It's not worth the time involved to make a cylindrical bullet in my experience.
If you don't have any experience in it, giving advice to the otherwise is counterproductive.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zia shooter 1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hear people talk about firing a few jacketed bullets to clean lead out of the barrel this to me sound like a good way to make a disaster happen 2 feet from your face. </div></div>
I've done it many many times in both general types of rifling. I've tested it specifically, if ALL of my results didn't show it to be a safe practice I wouldn't suggest it to anyone.
I've gone so far as to turn wadcutters from solid brass to see if that worked any better. It does, you just shoot a couple more rounds with the jacketed bullets and you're back to the starting point. It's not worth the time involved to make a cylindrical bullet in my experience.
If you don't have any experience in it, giving advice to the otherwise is counterproductive.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
There probably isn't a single answer as far as shooting jacketed bullets after lead ones.
Mostly depends on how badly the barrel is lead-fooled before shooting the jacketed bullet.
There probably isn't a single answer as far as shooting jacketed bullets after lead ones.
Mostly depends on how badly the barrel is lead-fooled before shooting the jacketed bullet.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
I shot a little more than 500rds of 200grn Laser Cast SWCs through my HK USP(polygonal bore) with out a problem, then followed it up w/ jacketed bullets and didn't notice degradation in accuracy or function. If you want to shoot lead through a glock/hk, have at it. I just got 2500rds of 180grn .40s from a friend, I think I might put all of them through my G24 just to see if I have a problem. Don't expect much, f*^k all you guys and your second hand "kaboom" stories.
I shot a little more than 500rds of 200grn Laser Cast SWCs through my HK USP(polygonal bore) with out a problem, then followed it up w/ jacketed bullets and didn't notice degradation in accuracy or function. If you want to shoot lead through a glock/hk, have at it. I just got 2500rds of 180grn .40s from a friend, I think I might put all of them through my G24 just to see if I have a problem. Don't expect much, f*^k all you guys and your second hand "kaboom" stories.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There probably isn't a single answer as far as shooting jacketed bullets after lead ones.
Mostly depends on how badly the barrel is lead-fooled before shooting the jacketed bullet.
</div></div>
OK, that's true. I never leaded a bore so badly that I couldn't see the rifling anymore when I was testing it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There probably isn't a single answer as far as shooting jacketed bullets after lead ones.
Mostly depends on how badly the barrel is lead-fooled before shooting the jacketed bullet.
</div></div>
OK, that's true. I never leaded a bore so badly that I couldn't see the rifling anymore when I was testing it.
Re: Lead bullets and polygonal rifling in pistols
Well, I asked Tanfoglio directly (since EAA did not reply), and they told me no problem with lead bullets. They suggested though, to not leave long time the gun w/out cleaning (mainly for accuracy reasons), thing that never happen to me anyway.
Well, I asked Tanfoglio directly (since EAA did not reply), and they told me no problem with lead bullets. They suggested though, to not leave long time the gun w/out cleaning (mainly for accuracy reasons), thing that never happen to me anyway.
