Learning That Sniper Hide Sucks

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paparockcal

paparockcal

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May 17, 2018
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#1
Learning To Read People - is one of the most invaluable skills you can develop no matter who you are or what you do. Learning even a few of the skills of when someone is telling the truth or inventing a story when you are talking to someone is something everyone can use in their everyday life from personal to professional. From simple questioning of a subordinate to interrogating extremely dangerous people that could result in saving lives one should seek to develop this ability. The following are just a few of those available on the subject.


What Every BODY is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent8217;s Guide to Speed-Reading People - https://www.amazon.com/What-Every-B...323&sr=1-2&keywords=behavioral+analysis+books

How to Analyze People: A Psychologist’s Guide to Mastering the Art of Speed Reading People, Through Human Psychology & Analysis of Body Language - https://www.amazon.com/How-Analyze-...11&sr=1-13&keywords=behavioral+analysis+books

Advanced Interviewing Techniques: Proven Strategies for Law Enforcement, Military, and Security Personnel - https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Int...795549&sr=1-2&keywords=advanced+interrogation

Criminal Profiling, Fourth Edition: An Introduction to Behavioral Evidence Analysis - https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Pro...018&sr=1-3&keywords=behavioral+analysis+books

Behavior Analysis and Learning: A Biobehavioral Approach, Sixth Edition - https://www.amazon.com/Behavior-Ana...145&sr=1-9&keywords=behavioral+analysis+books




















 
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#3
most people are terrible liars....everyone thinks they are a good liar.......99% of them are wrong.

the easiest way to tell if someone is lying is to follow your gut and use some common sense.

most people dont remember the lies theyve told.......if you think someone is lying about something, simply repeat their story back to them at a later date and change a few minor details.....but nothing important, if they dont correct you they dont remember the story they told and are likely lying.

when people lie, they tend to go WAY to far into detail to try and cover all their bases.......people dont talk like that........if you ask someone where they were the other night, and they start going into detail about how much they paid for gas at the gas station, and exactly how many minutes and exactly at what time they were in a store, they are likely lying

also, anytime someone claims they "Arent feeling well"......75% chance theyre lying to you.
 
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#4
paparockcal said:
to interrogating extremely dangerous people that could result in saving lives one should seek to develop this ability.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Well luckily those that are required to do this; do NOT learn or seek those skills from books on amazon....
The most comprehensive source on this subject is condensed into pretty much 1 location in the USA...Camp Peary :)

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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#5
Sounds to me like someone covertly looking for answer's for an upcoming Poly and or interview. ;)

@mcameron has nailed it. I know for a fact when I'm down the corridor and one of my orange jumpsuit clad felons starts in my ear hole it's BS till it goes quiet. Period. Terrible liars indeed. To the point it becomes offensive. Ton of techniques for reading people. But always trust the gut.
 
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#7
mcameron said:
most people dont remember the lies theyve told.......if you think someone is lying about something, simply repeat their story back to them at a later date and change a few minor details.....but nothing important, if they dont correct you they dont remember the story they told and are likely lying.
Click to expand...

I do something similar when I'm interviewing people. Randomly introduce false statements to see if they correct me (e.g., they know what they're talking about). If they don't, there's a number of possible reasons why they didn't.
 
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#8
I just have them talk to my girlfriend, she can get virtually anyone to tell them all their secrets. Of course with two masters and a Ph.D in psychology fields, she kind of does it for a living. She has her own personal library on the subject, close to 400 books or so and she's read every single one of them, yet she will be the first to say you only really learn anything by actually doing it. There's a reason someone has to document thousands of hours of supervised post-grad/doc work before they get a license to practice independently.

Me? I'm still just watching hands and waiting for the hair on the back of my neck to stand up if I think someone is dangerous. I leave the interrogations to the pros. I certainly include an 0211 CI/HUMINT Marine in that category too (as well as the Army equivalent) as "the professionals", so The Farm isn't the one and only place to learn the trade, although they are certainly the gold standard. There's some pretty tricky LEO detectives out there as well, they're at the top of learning the trade through experience.

Just not the FBI, they couldn't even nail Hillary and Huma after catching them red fucking handed. They give classes in how to be crooked and clueless at the same time.
 
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#9
Well, I took my courses in colleges and universities over the years from Arkansas, New Mexico, Texas, and a short stint at an Ivy League school courtesy of Uncle Sam. And no you will not become skilled reading books from amazon but anyone can pick up some skills such as learning involuntary eye movements when someone is accessing memory vs the part of their brain where they are creating a story. I've never been the snob type that felt holding my education over others. Anyone can learn common sense skills. If you have the motivation books are just a starting place then seek formal classroom education. However there are self-taught experts in many fields that have natural abilities and after 68 years of life I at least have come to respect those with natural abilities and motivations at least as much as many who claim expert status. I am far from an expert in any field but more of a Jack in many fields. I am LUCKY to still be alive as many of my friends and family are not. As an old Boy Scout Eagle Scout I like to pass own some of the things that have allowed me to survive. You can choose to accept them or NOT it is clearly your choice. I am not a modern man but the product of the training of many senior NCOs including my father of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam vintage. I sought out the best of the best during my active duty Army time and when I was in the only Army National Guard Airborne Infantry unit in the USA. My University degree is in Psychology with a double minor in Sociology and Military Science. I did post grad work in Criminal Justice though I worked for a major Oil Company to finance my studies. I have heard the sonic crack of bullets come past my head long before the report of their firing. I have seen my friends die, go insane from battle fatigue, and burn to death crying out for help when none could be given. I had a young daughter raped by an illegal alien out on leave from prison to attend his mother's funeral. I have seen and felt things I would not wish on anyone; so please spare my your snide comments.
 
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#12
Redmanss said:
Context is everything, we get a bit wary and suspicious around here, especially of new members and non-typical topics. Given your years, I'm sure you understand that.

Welcome to the Hide.
Click to expand...


There it is right there in a nutshell. Pretty diverse lot around here with a ton of knowledge and experience. From your Profile and post, yes, you appear to be seasoned and educated. But California? Hmmmm. ;)

Welcome Aboard as well.
 
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#13
mcameron said:
when people lie, they tend to go WAY to far into detail to try and cover all their bases.......people dont talk like that........if you ask someone where they were the other night, and they start going into detail about how much they paid for gas at the gas station, and exactly how many minutes and exactly at what time they were in a store, they are likely lying
Click to expand...

Hi,

Perfect context.....

Sincerely,
Theis
 
#14
THEIS said:
Hi,

Perfect context.....

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...
Screenshot_116.jpg
 
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#15
Redmanss said:
Context is everything, we get a bit wary and suspicious around here, especially of new members and non-typical topics. Given your years, I'm sure you understand that.

Welcome to the Hide.
Click to expand...


I understand that; I fully accept peoples' skepticism but it has only been in the last few years I have been willing to talk to people at all! I never joined the VFW because I don't drink and never have because alcohol makes me really sick and I got so sick and tired of trying to explain that! I had a Brigade Commander that called me a commie at my first officers "hail and fair well" because "I did not get drunk once a week"; his works. Need I say he was a stone cold alcoholic that I never saw totally sober?
 
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#17
I am verbose now because I have not spoken about any of this since 1973 even to my father before he died. I have had very few close friends and they have all been former military. They are all now dead. To be bluntly honest, I do not trust people especially if they have anything to do with the Federal Government! I'm JADED and have been lied to and have simply seen too much but at least I realize that. HAVING moved to the Peoples Republic of California has GREATLY aggravated everything that bothers me from health issues to me getting along with my wife because of how much I HATE California because it keeps stirring up all my BAD memories. Every time some Progressive starts spouting their GARBAGE it gives me such a headache I can not get away from them fast enough. Then there are these California idiots that keep passing retroactive laws making things I either own or love illegal it drives me up a wall. I keep pleading with my wife to just move over the Arizona border to reduce my stress but she refuses to even consider it. She could still visit her son and grand kids. They exclude her from almost all the family events she craves anyways.
 
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#20
My favorite during an interview / interrogation , is lightht converstion followed by friendly questions about growing up , first dog , fishing , trip bike . These recall memory and some require searching for said memory . Note is taken of eye direction while recallin g memories . Then what did you want to be when you grew up or favorite hobby ? Fast cars you say . What's your dream car ? Probing questions ; cragers or super tricks , 60s , 50s , Mickey Thompsons ? Watch eye direction for creative mind response. Also of note is a physical tell or posture .
If you think someone is lying there is a chance that they will assme the posture or tell if they believe you're swallowing it. That is a huge indicator .
 
#21
THEIS said:
Hi,

IF you really need to "break" someone then its best to go with the group that "breaks" Mossad agents when it is needed... The Shin Bet.

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...


I used to be a senior moderator for an Israeli Military site but "retired" last year. Though I am not Jewish I think the IDF has many things our forces could learn from their long experience with fighting terror. I trained alongside some IDF officers back in 1971 and found them some of the finest human beings and soldiers I had ever met. The ones' I have met since have only re-enforced that first impression!
 
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#23
paparockcal said:
I used to be a senior moderator for an Israeli Military site but "retired" last year. Though I am not Jewish I think the IDF has many things our forces could learn from their long experience with fighting terror. I trained alongside some IDF officers back in 1971 and found them some of the finest human beings and soldiers I had ever met. The ones' I have met since have only re-enforced that first impression!
Click to expand...

Nice to hear, because you know in the world news media they are depicted as the worst humans on the planet.
 
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#24
I have found no one to talk to over this last year after our move so my wife can be closer to her son and grand-kids. It is so expensive here. There are some good people here but they are so far and few between.

As soon as most hear even the first of my background you can see their minds turn off. The few I find that brighten up and identify with me say "we are getting out of California" "we can't take it any longer". It is so frustrating.
 
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#26
Last time I worked with Israelis, we did a company size MILES force-on-force with them at a MOUT town. After we caught them taking the batteries out of their receivers, we left the training grounds. Did some cross training with their Egoz, that was where I saw first hand that as hard as you try to integrate women by selecting the best available, women still are a liability in an infantry unit.

Suffice it to say, I was not impressed.

Side note paparockcal, white getting trained in counterinsurgency by SF in ROTC, did you know @buffalowinter? That would be so cool...
 
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#27
W54/XM-388 said:
Nice to hear, because you know in the world news media they are depicted as the worst humans on the planet.
Click to expand...


How many people have actually met much less got to know an actual Israeli Officer over many months of living and training with them? Most just judge on the basis of what others say. There were also a half dozen Syrian officers training at the school in the USA. I was neutral at first having never met an Arab as this was back in 1971. By the end of our training I came to despise the Syrians because they were obnoxious, undisciplined, refused to obey orders, and those are the nicer things. Our instructors had a hard time trying to teach due to the Syrians disruptions and shouting at the Israelis any time the Israelis were called on to answer a question. The rest of the class would literally have to stand up and yell at the Syrians to shut up and sit down or we were going to do it for them to get any work done. The Israelis always ignored the Syrians and were the consummate professionals!
 
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#28
W54/XM-388 said:
Did the wife talk you into moving to that liberal pit just to supposedly be closer to her kids, or was there some other reason?
Click to expand...

Yes, she did and I have regretted it every day since! She wanted to nanny her then new fraternal twin grand-daughters so I sat out in a rented house in Landers, CA just West of 29 Palms Marne Base for two years seeing her only on weekends. At least I had a lot of Marines around me that would see what I wore and salute me for my service. You have to love young Marines! I only get glares here around northern L.A.
 
#32
Redmanss said:
Last time I worked with Israelis, we did a company size MILES force-on-force with them at a MOUT town. After we caught them taking the batteries out of their receivers, we left the training grounds. Did some cross training with their Egoz, that was where I saw first hand that as hard as you try to integrate women by selecting the best available, women still are a liability in an infantry unit.

Suffice it to say, I was not impressed.

Side note paparockcal, white getting trained in counterinsurgency by SF in ROTC, did you know @buffalowinter? That would be so cool...
Click to expand...

No, I only knew one major by the name of Carol Bergdorff (I may be off on the spelling as it was back in 1970-71) he was of German decent as he told us.
 
#33
When applying for "that job" don't have these books in your Amazon purchase history


Liar Liar, You Are Hired: A simple guide to beating the modern lie detector test. Kindle Edition
by Anthony Lehman (Author, Editor)

Beat the box: The insider's guide to outwitting the lie detector Unknown Binding – 1983

by Vlad Kalashnikov (Author)

Winning the Polygraph Test Game: How to Beat the Lie Detector Hardcover – January 1, 1992

How to Pass a Polygraph Kindle Edition
by James Q. Murdoch (Author)

This book will take you by the hand, and guide you through the polygraph examination process. It will destroy the intimidation factor by dissecting the polygraph from both a physiological and psychological standpoint, minus the unnecessary technical jargon. After reading this book, you will have the confidence, knowledge, and metal capacity to pass any polygraph exam, at any time
 
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#34
The three books that influenced me the most are :
"Arresting Communication" by Lt. Jim Glennon
"I Know You are Lying" by Mark McClish
"The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker

I made my wife read "The Gift of Fear" I think it should be mandatory for every woman.
 
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#35
Redmanss, I wear a silver American Snipers Org. bracelet and also a American Snipers Org. sniper's rifle pin on my hat. I donate to that organization. I served in the U.S. Army 1971-1973 and later was in the only U.S. Army Airborne Infantry National Guard unit in Houston, TX. The young Marines would ask and I would tell them I am a Vietnam Era Vet and they would salute me for my service. It meant a lot to me as those of us that were in the military during Vietnam got a lot of crap. When I came home and was in LAX a young blond in her 20s came up to me and spat on me. How would you feel?
 
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#39
It's been a while since I've been in, but while I was I met many a man who served in the days of yore, from guys who served under Red Mike Edson on The 'Canal, fought their way back to the sea under Puller in Korea, to a good friend of mine seeing his first taste of battle on the Khe Sahn perimeter or having dinner with four RVN veteran recipients of the MOH, to getting my ass chewed by Mattis himself for one of my Marines not replacing the range card after a night's rain in Kandahar. Lots of vets, young and old, have great respect for each other.

One thing we veterans never do outside of both being in uniform and one being a senior officer, or one wearing that fancy blue banner with stars on it around their neck, is salute each other. That would be outside the mutual respect we have for fellow combat veterans, regardless of when either served. We hate saluting nearly as much as we hate shaving.

I've grown tired of this game, it's dinner time anyhow and I have someone much more beautiful to spend my evening with, so I'm out. I'll pick up in the morning with the counterinsurgency trained Israeli secret squirrel wanting to know more books on interrogation techniques comedy action. Good night fellas.

qKPQS7J.gif
 
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#42
I started this thread in hopes of getting some useful discussion to help others read people in the field. What I learned through the years in school and OJT helped keep me alive when others died around me. I was hoping for a more useful discussion like Alphatreedog with a great post.

There is a world of difference between a gut feeling and learning to understand the physical cues to give away what someone is trying to hide. Some people will not take anything serious someone tries to share with them. If you listen and learn you just might find out something that in a future situation you find yourself you will think back to " hey I remember this" when some repeatedly does that they are trying to.... press them. There is a time to be their friend and confidant getting them to talk and talk getting it all down on the record. Then there is the time to press them when they have lied or contradicted themselves. Which is it? Which is the truth? Why did you lie? Will they offer you someone else to relieve the pressure and you might get more information and a new lead from them? Everything and everyone is a puzzle so the more pieces you discover by every means available the more complete the picture becomes.
 
#45
Redmanss, sorry you feel the way you do. You are the type of man why I never joined the VFW and before I decided to at least try to reach out after all these years I feared I would meet. It is either the wannabes that cut down others to make themselves feel bigger or more important or some old timer that thinks he knows it all and has the right to rips others to shreds.

I may come back on this forum but I guess I will go back to my old ways at least for now. No good deed goes unpunished and don't worry Redmanss I would NEVER salute you. Game Over.
 
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#46
Hi,

You do realize you come onto a forum..(unlike most of the others) that has a very vast array of BTDT guys and you actually put in your profile you were trained for 3 years by Green Berets while in their ROTC Counter Insurgency Program. As if that is suppose to impress the forum members.
So then you went on into great detail about you trained with this and trained with that; almost killed for this, friends died for that, first drug enforcement this, turned down DEA that, Marines saluted you for what you wore, etc etc etc....it was you that kept digging your hole deeper and deeper. Not Redman.

So other than your 3 years ROTC, Brief NG duty, oil refinery job and owning a restaurant....what makes you think you have the knowledge to tell members of this forum what could and could not save their life?

You do realize what the 8541 means on Redmans moniker right?
You do realize there are guys on this forum that have and/or currently work for the DIA, CIA, USSS, DSA, DOS, etc etc?
You do realize there are guys on this forum that were part of the formation unit of "Delta Force"?
You do realize there are guys on this forum that were members of DevGru?
You do realize there are guys on this forum that consult and contract to foreign governments under the DOS guidelines?
You do realize there are guys on this forum that have 20+ years at working Department of Corrections and/or Law Enforcement?

So if you were under the impression that your detailed and continual edited "I am super secret squirrel" badge holder was going to be unique here you were mistaken and that is the root cause of your reception in this thread.

Sincerely,
Theis

PS: But what do I know :)
 
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#47
THEIS said:
Hi,

You do realize you come onto a forum..(unlike most of the others) that has a very vast array of BTDT guys and you actually put in your profile you were trained for 3 years by Green Berets while in their ROTC Counter Insurgency Program. As if that is suppose to impress the forum members.
So then you went on into great detail about you trained with this and trained with that; almost killed for this, friends died for that, first drug enforcement this, turned down DEA that, Marines saluted you for what you wore, etc etc etc....it was you that kept digging your hole deeper and deeper. Not Redman.

So other than your 3 years ROTC, Brief NG duty, oil refinery job and owning a restaurant....what makes you think you have the knowledge to tell members of this forum what could and could not save their life?

You do realize what the 8541 means on Redmans moniker right?
You do realize there are guys on this forum that have and/or currently work for the DIA, CIA, USSS, DSA, DOS, etc etc?
You do realize there are guys on this forum that were part of the formation unit of "Delta Force"?
You do realize there are guys on this forum that were members of DevGru?
You do realize there are guys on this forum that consult and contract to foreign governments under the DOS guidelines?
You do realize there are guys on this forum that have 20+ years at working Department of Corrections?

So if you were under the impression that your detailed and continual edited "I am super secret squirrel" badge holder was going to be unique here you were mistaken and that is the root cause of your reception in this thread.

Sincerely,
Theis

PS: But what do I know :)
Click to expand...

At least he doesn't macramé designer ghillie suits ... does he?
 
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