Lee Case Length Gauge

[mb3]

Not sure if I am using this tool right or if my gauge is short but my results have not been what I have expected. I am under the assumption the generally accepted case length for a 308 is around 2.0 (give or take). I took apart a factory FGM round and measured the case length and it came out to 2.014.
I then took a once fired Fed 308 case ran it through the Full Length Sizing die and it measured 2.017 after being resized. I put the resized case into the Lee shell holder and used my Lee Case Length sizing tool to trim the case to its proper length, and while doing so I felt like too much material was being taken off so I stopped and measure the case. The case measured 1.9935,too short? I then reviewed my Lee reloading book which said the Lee Case length tool is supposed to stop when it bottoms out (as it passes through the flash hole) on the case holder, leaving the case at the proper length. I noted that when I stopped trimming my case the end of the resizing tool was little better that flush with the flash hole and not touching the case holder. It appears to me my gauge is either broken or just short, I measured it at 1.8715. Do any of you use this tool? Could you measure the length of the gauge so I can compare mine?

 

[mb3]

Mods, this is a double post. Can you please delete.

 

[cavemanlrrp]

I've had the same problem with .223 brass. I had to back out the gauge a bit from the cutter to get proper length. I think when I screwed in the gauge nice and tight, it bends the cutting edge that it bottoms out on. I got it to work but have to keep an eye on it.

A Wilson is on way.

Best
caveman

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Forget that stupid tool and get a decent lathe type trimmer, would be my first piece of advice.

Secondly, the trim to length for the .308 Winchester, in most all manuals (Lapua 2.008", IIRC) is 2.005", not 2.000" and not 2.015" (SAAMI MAX case length)

Just measure the case after sizing and make sure that you either remove the expander ball, buy a carbide expander ball, or lube the inside of your case necks before sizing. It sounds like you might be pulling your shoulders out and increasing actual case length, as unfired FGMM case should NOT be 2.014" in length.

Trimming isn't rocket science. If the case measures 2.015" (SAAMI max for the 308 Win.) and you want your cases to be 2.005", trim them to 2.005. I have a lathe trimmer so I don't have to mess with the Lee type tool, but it doesn't seem to be very consistent.

Shit, you might as well just use a flat file and an old trim die and go from there.

I'm not a Lee basher and I have some of his dies, his flip tray and I'd buy his Classic Cast O-frame press in a heartbeat, but a lot of his shit seems to be designed for the FUDD in mind, who's locked away in his log cabin, needing a couple/few rounds to get him through the winter without starving.

2.005" +/- .001" is where I'm trying to be, if I'm not letting my necks grow longer to fit a particular throat and create a better seal.

Chris

 

[mb3]

I am going to order a new case trimmer. I am just not sure why this Lee tool is not working properly, all of the reviews I read were positive and it seemed to be too simple to fail. I wonder if I got a lemon (short tool)?

 

[mb3]

Ok, just a little follow up; I measured my Lee 30 06 case trimmer. It is labeled as 30/06 and measures 2.485, and trims to that length. I doubled checked my Lee 308 trimmer and it is labeled 300s and measures 1.8715. SO it looks like I was sent the wrong tool in a 308 Winchester package. I wonder what 300s is?

 

[FLIGHT762]

Ok, just a little follow up; I measured my Lee 30 06 case trimmer. It is labeled as 30/06 and measures 2.485, and trims to that length. I doubled checked my Lee 308 trimmer and it is labeled 300s and measures 1.8715. SO it looks like I was sent the wrong tool in a 308 Winchester package. I wonder what 300s is?

Maybe 300 Savage?

 

[Fuzzball]

"... but a lot of (Lee) shit seems to be designed for the FUDD in mind, who's locked away in his log cabin, needing a couple/few rounds to get him through the winter without starving."

Exactly. There are many providers of sophisticated trimmers, debur tools, powder measures, etc, but only Lee strives to include the contemptable "FUDD" with functional reloading tools at a modest price --- and a lot of FUDDs thank him for that. How that translates to 'shit' escapes me. Seems IF a sophisticated user has the knowleddge to understand what he's buying there should be no surprizes. ???

 

[ChrisGarrett]

"... but a lot of (Lee) shit seems to be designed for the FUDD in mind, who's locked away in his log cabin, needing a couple/few rounds to get him through the winter without starving."

Exactly. There are many providers of sophisticated trimmers, debur tools, powder measures, etc, but only Lee strives to include the contemptable "FUDD" with functional reloading tools at a modest price --- and a lot of FUDDs thank him for that. How that translates to 'shit' escapes me. Seems IF a sophisticated user has the knowleddge to understand what he's buying there should be no surprizes. ???

That's the problem, we don't have a lot of "sophisticated" reloaders beginning the journey into the world of reloading, since the stampede of '08, do we?

This is the first post I've read, in all of my years on this site and AR15.com, who've actually bought that trimmer and I've read a lot of posts.

Tells you something about the product, doesn't it?

Not every idea is a winner.

Chris

 

[rodnocker1`]

I've got Lee Case Length Gauges in close to 30 different calibers. They work and I use them all. The only one I am having trouble with is the new 300 BLK trimmer and I'm going to send it back and exchange it.

FWIW, I also have 3 lyman manual trimmers and 1 RCBS Power Pro trimmer (I no longer use these), and 2 Girauds (1 set up for .308 Win, .300 Win Mag, 300 BLK, and 1 for .223 Rem)....... For everything else-FUDD.....er, I mean, Lee!

 

[DocB]

mb3,

Mine says 308, nothing else, measures to approximately 2.002" and cuts to that length. I would guess the 308 s is the 308 Savage, but I don't have one. My old Speer #9 reloading manual lists the nominal case length of the 300 Savage as 1.871", so you appear to have made a good guess for what you received.

FWIW, my results from the Lee case length trimmers are at least as consistent as the Forster, and usually better. The Lee base and stud also allow me to do a number of operations on the case, such as flash hole uniforming, chamfering, and light neck turning. You can buy more expensive tools, but why?

HTH,
DocB

 

[5R Milspec]

yep you got the wrong one my friend.Like one said pull it out some,but think in your case this wouldn't help you.Call the people you ordered from,even check to make sure you ordered the right one,I'd bet they will make it right,or I would hope so,people make mistakes.Many orders go out from many places these days.

Me I would own a lathe type cutter,the Lee just works for me ( cheap and works )

 

[5R Milspec]

yep you got the wrong one my friend.Like one said pull it out some,but think in your case this wouldn't help you.Call the people you ordered from,even check to make sure you ordered the right one,I'd bet they will make it right,or I would hope so,people make mistakes.Many orders go out from many places these days.

Me I would own a lathe type cutter,the Lee just works for me ( cheap and works )

 

[mb3]

mb3,

Mine says 308, nothing else, measures to approximately 2.002" and cuts to that length. I would guess the 308 s is the 308 Savage, but I don't have one. My old Speer #9 reloading manual lists the nominal case length of the 300 Savage as 1.871", so you appear to have made a good guess for what you received.

FWIW, my results from the Lee case length trimmers are at least as consistent as the Forster, and usually better. The Lee base and stud also allow me to do a number of operations on the case, such as flash hole uniforming, chamfering, and light neck turning. You can buy more expensive tools, but why?

HTH,
DocB

I got another one on order, dont recall where I bought this one from. Guess I'll keep it in case someone needs a 300 Savage gauge. Thanks for the info.

 

[BoilerUP]

I use Lee Case Length Gauges for 223/223AI and 260...they work just fine for my purposes.

<shrug>

 

[Fuzzball]

Garret: "Tells you something about the product, doesn't it? Not every idea is a winner."

Well, now you've heard from a few more happy Lee trimmer users! In agreement with the posts above, it seems to tell me more about the users who got it but don't like it than about the tool itself.

I've had two conventional case trimmers for 20-30 years; bought a Lee trimmer 'bout 10 years ago just to see how well it worked. Liked it so much I eventually bought four more length gages and use them more often than my lathe types. Lee's is faster, easier, very consistant; what more could we ask of a case trimmer?

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Garret: "Tells you something about the product, doesn't it? Not every idea is a winner."

Well, now you've heard from a few more happy Lee trimmer users! In agreement with the posts above, it seems to tell me more about the users who got it but don't like it than about the tool itself.

I've had two conventional case trimmers for 20-30 years; bought a Lee trimmer 'bout 10 years ago just to see how well it worked. Liked it so much I eventually bought four more length gages and use them more often than my lathe types. Lee's is faster, easier, very consistant; what more could we ask of a case trimmer?

I bought the Lyman Universal Chuck trimmer 18 years ago, for one price. It'll do for me, 223-338LM and I don't need to buy any collets, or separate tools, to get my brass trimmed to +/- .001". I highly doubt that the Lees are as precise as a good Wilson, Forster, or any other lathe type with micrometer adjustments, so while they might be fine for plinking stuff, your BR guys are probably not using them on a regular basis, is my thought on the matter.

I like the guy above who bought 30 of them, no thanks. Look at the Possum Hollows and the WFT trimmers. Great ideas, but they're cartridge specific. If you're like me and you trim 8-10 different cartridges and have the option to do pistol cases, why spend all of that extra money...on duplicate tools, since you're almost up to the price of a Giraud with the WFT trimmers, at least.

I stand by my comments. A trim die and a flat file worked well for decades, for many reloaders, but how many of us use that method now?

Anyhow, I've made my peace and the last word is yours.

Chris

 

[Twoboxer]

The Lee case trimmer gauge you got MAY well be the wrong one.

HOWEVER, since it is short let me say that they wear out. This can occur fairly quickly when used with firm pressure while the locking collet is chucked in and spinning in a drill. As they spin metal-on-metal, they simply wear out.

Love the tool, btw. There are better, but none more cost-effective when used as intended.

 

[Fuzzball]

"I bought the Lyman Universal Chuck trimmer 18 years ago, for one price."

My oldest trimmer was the original Lyman "Universal", it's on it's fourth cutter head now and the bronze shaft bearing is a bit sloppy. It can do good work IF it's used correctly but it doesn't cut mouths quite as square as my simple little Lees do. Ditto my second trimmer, a Lyman "Accutrimmer" but the same assessories tools fit it. Like most other trimmers, neither had micro-adjustments and are a PITA to set to any specific case length. (Or they were until I finally made up a calibrated adjustment feature for them.)


"I highly doubt that the Lees are as precise as a good Wilson, Forster, or any other lathe type with micrometer adjustments, so while they might be fine for plinking stuff, your BR guys are probably not using them on a regular basis, is my thought on the matter."

You "doubt", but you speak as an authority without having used even one? That's an interesting "thought."

Not sure what you mean by "precise." Used with the same care as I expect for all reloading chores, Lee's trimmers are as precisely consistant as a young friend's Wilson. If you mean Lee's length guides aren't adjustable, that's true, but so what? They are made to trim to SAAMI factory chamber norms and for most of us that's fine. Your obsession with BR tools for common factory rifles and big game cartridges hardly computes. IF mb3's .308 and .30-06 rifles are BR rigs it's not likely he would be asking the questions you're BR answering...sorta. Not many of us are or even wish to be BR shooters so "my" BR shooter's tools and methods hardly matter for the FUDD hunting rifles you seem to denigrate as "plinking" rigs. ??


"If you're like me you trim 8-10 different rifle cartridges and have the option to do pistol cases, why spend all of that extra money...on duplicate tools, since you're almost up to the price of a Giraud with the WFT trimmers, at least."

If that's you, I am "like you" and then some, but we both know few others are like us so we know not many really need what we need. But goodness, how many Lee Lenght gages and shell holders can be purchased for the price of a Giraud these days? And what would be the total cost of adapting the WFT to all those cartridges you trim? All nice stuff to have but I don't need them and it sounds like you don't either. ?? So your alternatives aren't rational to the poor Fudd who's wanting to do good work at a price that won't prevent getting new summer shoes for momma and the kids.

I'm an old guy reloading "expert" who tries to address what the OP wants - and actually NEEDS - rather than denegrating his less costly choices while trying to clone myself.


"I stand by my comments. A trim die and a flat file worked well for decades, for many reloaders, but how many of us use that method now?"

Well, I still do when reforming cases like .30-06 to .22-250, 6mm International or .243, all of which need a lot of neck cut off. Am I doing it wrong?


"Anyhow, I've made my peace and the last word is yours."

Thank you. I always welcome the opportunity to voice an alternative (and better balanced) opinion.

 

[mb3]

Contacted Lee and they are going to replace the gauge with the proper 308 gauge. Thank you all for your help.

 

[gixxer822]

Good customer service. I use em and have for awhile. Never had any issues. I also have LE Wilson and Forster. But again the lees are used the most

 

[mark5pt56]

Replace the lock stud base from time to time as the point of the gauge will create a small divot into it.

 

[rodnocker1`]

Well said Fuzzball.

As I said, the Lee case length gauges work.

I am "the guy above who bought 30 of them, No Thanks!" that Chris likes.....the 30 (more or less) LCLG's that I have cost around $150.00 total. Yes, that's about 3 times what a Lyman Universal used to go for (don't know what they are now) but about 1/2 the price of the RCBS Power Pro and 1/3 the cost of a Giraud. And while you "need" (but don't have to have) a drill to really make the Lee's hum, most people already have one of those so I didn't add it into the total.

Also, the LCLG's are caliber specific meaning if you use them, you will have to buy one for each caliber (they're around $5.00 apiece so you can actually get into a single caliber for very little money). But they trim each case to the same length every time (or at least they get alot closer +/- then my Girauds do) because the rod length is what determines the length and not the shoulder. I'm not sure why there is so much hate for the LCLG's as they use the same principle as the lathe type trimmer (cutter head removes the excess brass to a predetermined length) with the difference being that the rod determines when the trimming stops rather than the stop you set on the lathe's crank (I've had those move). And they indeed aren't adjustable but if trimming to SAAMI specs,.....

Again, they are inexpensive and they work, PERIOD!

If you don't want to use them, then don't. But don't be badmouthing or try to belittle those that do.

mb3, Glad to see that Lee came through for you! They do have good Customer Service and they have helped me out a few times when I have lost parts.

FWIW, their decapping rods in their dies have an "unbreakable guarantee". When (Yeah, not if....it happens,,,,to me, at least) the decapping pin breaks, just email them with a photo of the broken rod and they will send you a new one.

 

[Fuzzball]

"I'm not sure why there is so much hate for the LCLG's..."

I'm sure; Lee's trimmers, etc, are so inexpensive there's no elitist hubris no matter how well they work. ??

And I find it fascinating that you do have a Giraud and find your case lengths change as much as my friend's do! It's amazing how confident some people can be to make judgements about tools they've never used!

 

[DocB]

Mark,

You can always grind them down. I've done that several times to some of the older trimmer studs. If I were really concerned with it, I'd get one of the knife makers or blacksmiths I know to do a case hardening on it.

HTH,
DocB

 

[chrisward3]

same issue here...just emailed Lee and will hopefully get the proper gauge sent out.

 

[QuickNDirty]

The Lee case trimmer gauge you got MAY well be the wrong one.

HOWEVER, since it is short let me say that they wear out. This can occur fairly quickly when used with firm pressure while the locking collet is chucked in and spinning in a drill. As they spin metal-on-metal, they simply wear out.

Love the tool, btw. There are better, but none more cost-effective when used as intended.

This is true.. Mine started out producing 2.005" cases but after a couple hundred they're down to 2.000"

Ammo still shoots good, though =)

 

[mb3]

Another little follow up: Got my case trimming ironed out, stayed with the Lee Case trimmer and all is working well. I am still trying to develop a load that will replicate my zero with FGM, but I have obtained some pretty good results so far. I am loading for the Ogive length at 2.33, 42gr of RL 15, 168 SMK. So far I am getting consistent 1/4 MOA at 200 yards. My groups are at .5 inches (four shots) and my max groups are a little lager around .6. I am still working my charge up- highest I have loaded so far is 42.7 gr. I am having to add 1/2 MOA to my vertical adjustment to get her on the center of the target- so I haven't found the right charge yet, but accuracy is there. I was loading 175 Burgers and tried them at 100 yards. They were basically hole in hole, but decided to save them for later.