I bought a lee collet die in 308 to try out. When I initially tried to size a case it crushed it. I read the directions and they suggested I "un-spring" the die. This allowed the case to fit up into the die and be sized, but the die is leaving distinct marks on the neck. The impressions are obviously from the collet and look to be detrimental to the neck. Considering sending the die back, but I thought I'd ask the board if this is to be expected from the collet die. Maybe see if anyone had suggestions to remedy (yeah, I know, throw it in the trash and spend my money on a real die)
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
lee collet die problem?
- Thread starter Surffshr
- Start date
Re: lee collet die problem?
Go to leeprecision.com and check out the help vids they have a video on just about every die then manufacture. probably just a adjustment error, if not fantastic company they will make you happy no matter what it takes.
Go to leeprecision.com and check out the help vids they have a video on just about every die then manufacture. probably just a adjustment error, if not fantastic company they will make you happy no matter what it takes.
Re: lee collet die problem?
Hey Conan,
Step away from the reloading press.
Here's the deal, don't set up your press so that you are trying to cam-over, you need to feel the press as it pops the primer and then crimps the neck. With RP brass I am getting an inside measurement of .306 inside the neck of the brass.
I tried show in the picture that there is a slight mark on the brass, but not enough to feel.
SScott
Don't drink the kool-ade that makes you think that Lee dies are pcs. of SH!T. They work great for my Rem 700 5R. Including a light crimp.
Hey Conan,
Step away from the reloading press.
Here's the deal, don't set up your press so that you are trying to cam-over, you need to feel the press as it pops the primer and then crimps the neck. With RP brass I am getting an inside measurement of .306 inside the neck of the brass.
I tried show in the picture that there is a slight mark on the brass, but not enough to feel.
SScott
Don't drink the kool-ade that makes you think that Lee dies are pcs. of SH!T. They work great for my Rem 700 5R. Including a light crimp.
Re: lee collet die problem?
youtube>lee collet die>ammosmith. he mentions the detents in the brass, no effect he says. also shows how to use and adjust it. buying one soon, want to sell yours cheap?
youtube>lee collet die>ammosmith. he mentions the detents in the brass, no effect he says. also shows how to use and adjust it. buying one soon, want to sell yours cheap?
Re: lee collet die problem?
Yeah. Just tried again. I had previously adjusted the press not to cam over, but I read something in the instructions about "the neck is sized at the very end of the stroke. It requires considerable force on the press lever" I'm thinking my considerable force was a bit much.
Yeah. Just tried again. I had previously adjusted the press not to cam over, but I read something in the instructions about "the neck is sized at the very end of the stroke. It requires considerable force on the press lever" I'm thinking my considerable force was a bit much.
Re: lee collet die problem?
I broke a Rockchucker main casting with a Lee Collet die and my ham fisted technique.
Don't adjust the die that close to the cam over point.
I broke a Rockchucker main casting with a Lee Collet die and my ham fisted technique.
Don't adjust the die that close to the cam over point.
Re: lee collet die problem?
try these 2 vids.
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mhTUgytUGnM"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mhTUgytUGnM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MgHR43TN5Zk"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MgHR43TN5Zk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
try these 2 vids.
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mhTUgytUGnM"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mhTUgytUGnM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MgHR43TN5Zk"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MgHR43TN5Zk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Re: lee collet die problem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Conan,
Step away from the reloading press.
Here's the deal, don't set up your press so that you are trying to cam-over, you need to feel the press as it pops the primer and then crimps the neck. With RP brass I am getting an inside measurement of .306 inside the neck of the brass.
I tried show in the picture that there is a slight mark on the brass, but not enough to feel.
SScott
Don't drink the kool-ade that makes you think that Lee dies are pcs. of SH!T. They work great for my Rem 700 5R. Including a light crimp. </div></div>
I am not saying your method is wrong but I disagree totally. The reason he is marking the case necks is that he is using too much force because he has no place to stop and just lean's on the press and crushes the case because the die is not adjusted properly. If you have a press that can cam over.
You adjust the die to just cam over a small amount and increas it a small amount at a time until the case neck is sized to hold the bullet . Then you have found the spot to leave the die at for those cases . If some thicker necks come along you can back the die off a small amount.
Both ways work if you know exactly what you are doing but if you learn the cam over method it is way easier on your arm as you are using the full leverage of a compound press which only comes in the last inch of travel .
I can size a 223 case in an RCBS RC using a lee collet die with one finger on the handle using the cam over method.
There is no way on gods earth that I will do it the way Lee says its just crap.
If you watch the bottom video the method he is using is CAM OVER , the ram handle goes all the way to its stop.
Watch the video , see how little hand force is required to size the neck with cam over .
However he adjusts the die correctly to start .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Conan,
Step away from the reloading press.
Here's the deal, don't set up your press so that you are trying to cam-over, you need to feel the press as it pops the primer and then crimps the neck. With RP brass I am getting an inside measurement of .306 inside the neck of the brass.
I tried show in the picture that there is a slight mark on the brass, but not enough to feel.
SScott
Don't drink the kool-ade that makes you think that Lee dies are pcs. of SH!T. They work great for my Rem 700 5R. Including a light crimp. </div></div>
I am not saying your method is wrong but I disagree totally. The reason he is marking the case necks is that he is using too much force because he has no place to stop and just lean's on the press and crushes the case because the die is not adjusted properly. If you have a press that can cam over.
You adjust the die to just cam over a small amount and increas it a small amount at a time until the case neck is sized to hold the bullet . Then you have found the spot to leave the die at for those cases . If some thicker necks come along you can back the die off a small amount.
Both ways work if you know exactly what you are doing but if you learn the cam over method it is way easier on your arm as you are using the full leverage of a compound press which only comes in the last inch of travel .
I can size a 223 case in an RCBS RC using a lee collet die with one finger on the handle using the cam over method.
There is no way on gods earth that I will do it the way Lee says its just crap.
If you watch the bottom video the method he is using is CAM OVER , the ram handle goes all the way to its stop.
Watch the video , see how little hand force is required to size the neck with cam over .
However he adjusts the die correctly to start .
Re: lee collet die problem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I broke a Rockchucker main casting with a Lee Collet die and my ham fisted technique.
Don't adjust the die that close to the cam over point. </div></div>
To break a RC would take an insane amount of force . What the hell were you thinking .
I have been using several Lee collet dies in a RC a Redding and a Simplex since they came on the market and have never broke anything at all ever . Because I go gently and adjust the die properly and if the force is too great stop and back off the die a bit more. Common sense .
It does not take much force to size the neck to the mandrel if you are leaning on the handle then the die is not adjusted right.
You start with a full ram travel with no sizing being done and then adjust the diea small amount at a time until it just cams over . Then check the case neck for bullet fit.
The whole idea is to get close to the cam over point . The closer you are the less chance of damage.
What you did was get too far away from the cam over point but then you used insane force to get it to cam over and bust,
Keep adjsuting it down a very small amount until it cams a bit harder and that will mostlikely be plenty. You should be able to size a 223 with one single finger on the press handle or maybe two for small person in the correct cam over position. Been doing it that way for 20 years maybe more.
Very slight marks on the case neck may not be a problem as sometimes the collet is a bit sharp on the edges after it is split.
Inspect the die and if it looks a bit burry then get in along the split with the end of a small hobbie file and deburr it.
While you have it apart grease the taper area of the sleeve .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I broke a Rockchucker main casting with a Lee Collet die and my ham fisted technique.
Don't adjust the die that close to the cam over point. </div></div>
To break a RC would take an insane amount of force . What the hell were you thinking .
I have been using several Lee collet dies in a RC a Redding and a Simplex since they came on the market and have never broke anything at all ever . Because I go gently and adjust the die properly and if the force is too great stop and back off the die a bit more. Common sense .
It does not take much force to size the neck to the mandrel if you are leaning on the handle then the die is not adjusted right.
You start with a full ram travel with no sizing being done and then adjust the diea small amount at a time until it just cams over . Then check the case neck for bullet fit.
The whole idea is to get close to the cam over point . The closer you are the less chance of damage.
What you did was get too far away from the cam over point but then you used insane force to get it to cam over and bust,
Keep adjsuting it down a very small amount until it cams a bit harder and that will mostlikely be plenty. You should be able to size a 223 with one single finger on the press handle or maybe two for small person in the correct cam over position. Been doing it that way for 20 years maybe more.
Very slight marks on the case neck may not be a problem as sometimes the collet is a bit sharp on the edges after it is split.
Inspect the die and if it looks a bit burry then get in along the split with the end of a small hobbie file and deburr it.
While you have it apart grease the taper area of the sleeve .
Re: lee collet die problem?
I can tell if the die is not adjusted properly pretty easily by feeling how the case is getting rammed into the die. If there is any resistance before it gets to the point where it cams over, you're going to either crush the case or the neck will bulge.
If you feel any resistance, back it off and take the case out (the case should still be fine, unless you've already started camming over) and back off the die about 3/4 a turn or so. Then work up your adjustment in 1/8 turns until you get enough neck tension to seat the bullet.
If the marks on the neck are gouges instead of marks, you've got too much tension / you've adjusted your die incorrectly. Back off your die a little. Slight marks / subtle scratches won't matter at all.
At least that works for me.
I can tell if the die is not adjusted properly pretty easily by feeling how the case is getting rammed into the die. If there is any resistance before it gets to the point where it cams over, you're going to either crush the case or the neck will bulge.
If you feel any resistance, back it off and take the case out (the case should still be fine, unless you've already started camming over) and back off the die about 3/4 a turn or so. Then work up your adjustment in 1/8 turns until you get enough neck tension to seat the bullet.
If the marks on the neck are gouges instead of marks, you've got too much tension / you've adjusted your die incorrectly. Back off your die a little. Slight marks / subtle scratches won't matter at all.
At least that works for me.
Re: lee collet die problem?
First, the longitude marks have no effective meaning. The collet has four fingers so there will often be a slight surface impression of where they come together; forget it.
The Lee collet is the best neck die available for factory chambers, at any price. It has a unique moving part (the collet) and that leaves those who wish to use it in a mechanical 1-2-3 step process puzzled. Jamming it fully up and then trying to insert a case is a common mistake.
The way it works is to squeeze the case neck around a long, straight mandrel that makes for some very straight case necks of the proper inside diameter without using an expander or case lube; GREAT idea! All it needs (or can even benefit from) is enough pressure on the soft necks to make them conform to the mandrel. The necks can't possibly be made any smaller so leaning on the lever harder only stresses the die and press body.
Lee deliberately made the die's top cap of aluminum with fine threads so it would, hopefully, strip out before damaging the die body or press if/when the user gets too vigorous. That usually works (and the owners then cuss the "lousy, cheap aluminum cap" that was made to protect them from self-inflected tool damage!).
Use only enough lever pressure (typically about 20-25 pounds of force) to form the necks firmly against the mandrel and quit, that's all you gonna get.
It seems that bullet grip is a confusing thing. Seeking a high 'bullet tension' by making the neck ID smaller than 1 or 2 thou below bullet diameter only increases the incidence of bullet runout during seating while doing nothing for real bullet "tension." When the necks are expanded more than a couple thousants it stretches permanately, so real bullet grip is NOT increased but the force required to seat the bullet is.
Used, work hardened cases have more spring-back than new or annealed cases and may not give enough bullet grip. If you have sized as hard as practical and still have too little grip either get new cases or neck anneal what you have. Making the mandrel a bit smaller is an option but it's a poor one.
Camming over a press or not is irrelivant. Lee's presses don't cam over and their instructions are for tho their presses. All a cam over means is the ram has gone passed top dead center and started back down, there's no magic in that.
First, the longitude marks have no effective meaning. The collet has four fingers so there will often be a slight surface impression of where they come together; forget it.
The Lee collet is the best neck die available for factory chambers, at any price. It has a unique moving part (the collet) and that leaves those who wish to use it in a mechanical 1-2-3 step process puzzled. Jamming it fully up and then trying to insert a case is a common mistake.
The way it works is to squeeze the case neck around a long, straight mandrel that makes for some very straight case necks of the proper inside diameter without using an expander or case lube; GREAT idea! All it needs (or can even benefit from) is enough pressure on the soft necks to make them conform to the mandrel. The necks can't possibly be made any smaller so leaning on the lever harder only stresses the die and press body.
Lee deliberately made the die's top cap of aluminum with fine threads so it would, hopefully, strip out before damaging the die body or press if/when the user gets too vigorous. That usually works (and the owners then cuss the "lousy, cheap aluminum cap" that was made to protect them from self-inflected tool damage!).
Use only enough lever pressure (typically about 20-25 pounds of force) to form the necks firmly against the mandrel and quit, that's all you gonna get.
It seems that bullet grip is a confusing thing. Seeking a high 'bullet tension' by making the neck ID smaller than 1 or 2 thou below bullet diameter only increases the incidence of bullet runout during seating while doing nothing for real bullet "tension." When the necks are expanded more than a couple thousants it stretches permanately, so real bullet grip is NOT increased but the force required to seat the bullet is.
Used, work hardened cases have more spring-back than new or annealed cases and may not give enough bullet grip. If you have sized as hard as practical and still have too little grip either get new cases or neck anneal what you have. Making the mandrel a bit smaller is an option but it's a poor one.
Camming over a press or not is irrelivant. Lee's presses don't cam over and their instructions are for tho their presses. All a cam over means is the ram has gone passed top dead center and started back down, there's no magic in that.
Re: lee collet die problem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Camming over a press or not is irrelivant. Lee's presses don't cam over and their instructions are for tho their presses. All a cam over means is the ram has gone passed top dead center and started back down, there's no magic in that.</div></div>
Yes I agree caming over is no big deal if you take care and do it right .
You are spot on about Lees instructions they ignore the cam over technique because their presses , the ones I have seen anyway don't cam over.
Both methods will size a case with care but I prefer the cam over method for control and it's way less tiring.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Camming over a press or not is irrelivant. Lee's presses don't cam over and their instructions are for tho their presses. All a cam over means is the ram has gone passed top dead center and started back down, there's no magic in that.</div></div>
Yes I agree caming over is no big deal if you take care and do it right .
You are spot on about Lees instructions they ignore the cam over technique because their presses , the ones I have seen anyway don't cam over.
Both methods will size a case with care but I prefer the cam over method for control and it's way less tiring.
Re: lee collet die problem?
I have loaded many or rounds with this type of die.and when its set up like one should it will give out very good ammo.
the way I set up my rock chucker
1 run the ram all the way up
2 run the die in till it just touches the shell holder
3 with a mark on the top of the die cap I then give it 2 full turns then lock it down but remember to use the 25 foot lbs to size your brass
but if you prefer to use the cam over just use one full turn and this should work.for I to sometimes use this way of useing the die.
and to keep from wasteing brass you should take the die apart and do the following.
1 polish all mateing parts
2 put a little grease on the mateing parts
this will help with the sizeing.and keep the two parts from sticking together.trust me you do not want the two parts to stick.if this happens and you do not catch it.it will push the neck down into the shoulder.then the case will no longer be good.
but hey this is something that I have learned to do,and just an opinion.either way works for me and gives out good ammo.its just that Lee for some reason will not take the time to polish their products.and if you want the neck to be smaller just use some 320 sandpapper and polish a little off the mandrel.this will sand away say .002-.003 off.depending on how long you do this.
but I say again this is the way I use the dies.so take it with a grain og salt.not trying to tell anyone what to do.
I have loaded many or rounds with this type of die.and when its set up like one should it will give out very good ammo.
the way I set up my rock chucker
1 run the ram all the way up
2 run the die in till it just touches the shell holder
3 with a mark on the top of the die cap I then give it 2 full turns then lock it down but remember to use the 25 foot lbs to size your brass
but if you prefer to use the cam over just use one full turn and this should work.for I to sometimes use this way of useing the die.
and to keep from wasteing brass you should take the die apart and do the following.
1 polish all mateing parts
2 put a little grease on the mateing parts
this will help with the sizeing.and keep the two parts from sticking together.trust me you do not want the two parts to stick.if this happens and you do not catch it.it will push the neck down into the shoulder.then the case will no longer be good.
but hey this is something that I have learned to do,and just an opinion.either way works for me and gives out good ammo.its just that Lee for some reason will not take the time to polish their products.and if you want the neck to be smaller just use some 320 sandpapper and polish a little off the mandrel.this will sand away say .002-.003 off.depending on how long you do this.
but I say again this is the way I use the dies.so take it with a grain og salt.not trying to tell anyone what to do.
Re: lee collet die problem?
This is my 260Rem Lee Collet dies when new
This is my 260 Lee Collet Dies after I polished the collet and the sleeve.
This is the Rockchucker press I broke by pushing with 100 pounds of force on the handle as it toggled over with a Lee Collet die. That mistake could be made with any die, as the force is infinite at the top, minus friction.
For years I thought that my Redding FL "S" die was better, until I did some real comparison with the Lee Collet die. The Lee looks cheap, but the results are top notch.
This is my 260Rem Lee Collet dies when new
This is my 260 Lee Collet Dies after I polished the collet and the sleeve.
This is the Rockchucker press I broke by pushing with 100 pounds of force on the handle as it toggled over with a Lee Collet die. That mistake could be made with any die, as the force is infinite at the top, minus friction.
For years I thought that my Redding FL "S" die was better, until I did some real comparison with the Lee Collet die. The Lee looks cheap, but the results are top notch.
Re: lee collet die problem?
How did you polish the dies like that? My .223 collet die could use that, they get stuck quite often (so that you have to "unspring" them). My 260 and 6mm Rem dies are ok, but could probably work smoother and still occasionally get stuck.
How did you polish the dies like that? My .223 collet die could use that, they get stuck quite often (so that you have to "unspring" them). My 260 and 6mm Rem dies are ok, but could probably work smoother and still occasionally get stuck.
Re: lee collet die problem?
I put the collet or the collar in the mini lathe and spin it fast.
Then I rub on it with emery cloth. Then a finer grade of emery cloth....finer.. finer.
I don't think it makes any more accurate ammo that way, but with a drop of oil between the collar and collet, the neck sizing process feels silky smooth, instead of crunchy.
I put the collet or the collar in the mini lathe and spin it fast.
Then I rub on it with emery cloth. Then a finer grade of emery cloth....finer.. finer.
I don't think it makes any more accurate ammo that way, but with a drop of oil between the collar and collet, the neck sizing process feels silky smooth, instead of crunchy.
Re: lee collet die problem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is my 260Rem Lee Collet dies when new
This is my 260 Lee Collet Dies after I polished the collet and the sleeve.
This is the Rockchucker press I broke by pushing with 100 pounds of force on the handle as it toggled over with a Lee Collet die. That mistake could be made with any die, as the force is infinite at the top, minus friction.
For years I thought that my Redding FL "S" die was better, until I did some real comparison with the Lee Collet die. The Lee looks cheap, but the results are top notch. </div></div>
Man you must be a strong guy to do that to a press .
I have noticed that there is a wide variation in the finish quality of Lee collet dies. They are a cheap die but generally they can produce good results if you know how to use them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is my 260Rem Lee Collet dies when new
This is my 260 Lee Collet Dies after I polished the collet and the sleeve.
This is the Rockchucker press I broke by pushing with 100 pounds of force on the handle as it toggled over with a Lee Collet die. That mistake could be made with any die, as the force is infinite at the top, minus friction.
For years I thought that my Redding FL "S" die was better, until I did some real comparison with the Lee Collet die. The Lee looks cheap, but the results are top notch. </div></div>
Man you must be a strong guy to do that to a press .
I have noticed that there is a wide variation in the finish quality of Lee collet dies. They are a cheap die but generally they can produce good results if you know how to use them.
Similar threads
