Lee collet die??

[Jedi]

How good is it??
Heard tell utilizing this eliminates need for neck turning as mandrel ensures even thickness thru out neck?

Concept here is avoid neck turning
Two step neck size
Collet first to even out neck thickness and initial reduction then follow with redding bushin die to ensure correct tension achieved.

Now this was passed to me by another shooter who swears by it, not as perfect as neck turning but close enuff not warrant neck turning.

 

[VTi]

Re: Lee collet die??

Here's my take FWIW:

It seems to me that using 2 separate neck sizing operations as you posted would basically "cancel out" the benefits of using the collet die in the first place.

After using the collet die, the neck is technically concentric on the inside of the case mouth (which is the most appealing and desirable aspect of the collet die). Any variation in neck thickness is on the outside of the case. That's the difference between the collet die and a bushing die. The bushing die sizes concentrically on the outside of the case, so any neck wall thickness variation will result in unevenness on the inside of the case mouth, and variation in neck tension will result.

I'm no expert, but I would surmise that performing both operations, especially in the order you posted, would make the use of the collet die moot. You might as well just size with the bushing and save yourself a step. The concentric inside neck provided by the collet would be made uneven again by following up with a bushing die.

 

[Jedi]

Re: Lee collet die??

So as it only trues inside of neck
neck turning still needed
hmmmmmmm

 

[VTi]

Re: Lee collet die??

Well, it depends on what you're trying to achieve. If you just want consistent, even neck tension, the collet die should do a great job of that as the case is concentric and round on the side that holds the bullet, the inside.

If you want perfect neck tension, and even neck thickness inside and out there's no replacement for turning necks.

 

[Jedi]

Re: Lee collet die??

CRap
thought it sounded to good to be true

 

[pell1203]

Re: Lee collet die??

Karl2U,

I've been using the two step process you describe above with good results. If nothing else, it works wonders straightening out those cases that have some minor dings on the neck.

My observation has been that using the Lee collet die for the initial 70% of neck reduction, followed with the Redding neck bushing sizer for the final step, has yielded much more consistent results than simply using the Redding sizer or collet die individually. I do not neck turn, nor will I be looking to start any time soon. Nevertheless, this process has consistently yielded 600 yard groups averaging between 3-4 inches vertical spread. This seems more than acceptable to me. Now, if I could only duplicate that on the horizontal spread, I'd be a very happy man.

I wonder... you think maybe it would help if I tried shooting sideways?

 

[Jedi]

Re: Lee collet die??

Pell
Your post kinda reflects info i was told, was hoping someone who actually does it would chime in.

Thou i have not tried it as i thought along lines of post by VTI, not to say that it wont work.

Seen alot of things that dont make sense perform tasks very well

 

[VTi]

Re: Lee collet die??

I have to agree with the above Karl. I never said it wouldn't "work", I just said it would in no way replace neck turning to even out case wall thickness in the neck area... and it most certainly does not. As Pell said, he performs 2 neck sizing operations, and gets good results at short distances, 600yds. That's great! Is it from the dual sizing operations??? Maybe. Maybe not. As is usually the case with extensive match prepping, if a person *thinks* it helps, it most often does. A person can feel free to use 5 or 6 different neck sizing operations if he wishes, and may get "good results", but it still in no way removes metal around the case wall at the neck area. That's what neck turning does, and what you were asking if this process replaces in your first post.

As to using a collet die first, it will have no effect if you run the bushing sizer after, good or bad. Look at it this way... say you size the case 70% of the way with the collet as posted above. Now when you run your case through the bushing neck sizer, the outside of the case is going to "look" exactly like the inside of the bushing die, whether it was run through the collet die first or not. No way around that. You can neck size as many times as you have time for, but the brass will come out looking like last die it was run through.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Lee collet die??

"Heard tell utilizing this eliminates need for neck turning as mandrel ensures even thickness thru out neck?"

No die can shift brass around in the neck to make poor necks good. What the collet die does, quite well, is explained above. It's superiority to a bushing die is that trivial differences in neck thickness don't really matter AND it makes for some straight necks if it's used right. But necks with a lot of thickness variation still need to be cleaned up with a turner a little.

A bushing die HAS to rely on the necks being the same thickness, all the way around, or the seated bullet WILL be off axis to the case body and rifle bore. AND bullet "tension" will vary directly with neck thickness.

The Lee collet sizer is the best neck die available, at any price, for those of us who shoot factory sporter rifles. IMHO.

 

[Two Shoes]

Re: Lee collet die??

Ya'll have left out an important option(you can order), or you can DIY.

You can change the Neck Tension on the Lee's, by turning(sanding/emery coth) down the OD of the mandrel.

This will aid you in changing NT's, for little or no money.

THe Collet Dies are set up for a basic .002 NT, I have found that brass (Not turned) is usually not all the same neck thickness.......like you all have.

So, by making the mandrel smaller, you INSURE a more uniform case NT.

Those that have them, have FELT the difference, in seating pressures........this means your necks are not getting the same NT.

Making them a .003 NT, will aid in more NT.