Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

3positionshooter

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I was just reading that Les Baer is going to make bolt guns this year, they will have (get this) a 10 shot UNDER 1/2 moa accuracy guarentee using factory match ammo...

What say you??? Who is going to get on the list?

LBC) is a highly respected maker of “semi-custom” 1911 pistols and AR platform rifles. Now Baer moves into the precision bolt-action rifle market with impressive new offerings for 2010. Baer will sell two different bolt-guns, each fitted with a Stiller custom action and a cut-rifled barrel made in-house by LBC. Available chamberings (for both models) are .243 Win, .260 Rem, or .308 Win (later this year LCB will release a .338 Lapua). Remarkably, Baer guarantees these new guns can deliver UNDER half-MOA 10-shot groups with match grade ammo.

The new Les Baer Custom bolt-action rifles all feature a Stiller Tac 30 action with Picatinny rail, Wyatt precision floor plate with Wyatt detachable box magazine (DBM), along with a “match grade” 24″ cut-rifled, 5-groove LBC barrel. A Timney match trigger with 2.5-lb pull is fitted, and both action and barrel are coated in a matte-black Dupont S finish.
Two different Bell & Carlson composite stock designs are offered. The LBC Tactical Recon Bolt Action Rifle features a tactical-style stock, similar in appearance to the SAKO TRG stock. It has a vertical pistol grip, undercut toe, plus an adjustable cheekpiece and adjustable buttplate. MSRP for the “Tactical Recon” model is $3560.00.

If you want a lighter rifle with a more conventional stock, the LBC Tactical Varmint Classic features a varmint-style composite stock with a narrower fore-arm, “standard” wrist-grip shape, and a straight comb. There is a small hook in the underside of the buttstock. Like the “Tactical Recon” model, the “Tactical Varmint” features a Stiller action, Wyatt bottom metal/magazine, and 24″ cut-rifled barrel. MSRP for the “Tactical Varmint” is $3410.00.

New Les Baer Bolt-Guns have 10-shot Half-MOA Guarantee
We talked with Les Baer yesterday, and he told us that the prototype Baer tactical rifles have show outstanding accuracy during testing, producing some <span style="color: #FF0000">1/2 INCH GROUPS at TWO HUNDRED </span><span style="color: #FF0000"> </span> yards. Accordingly, Baer is offering one of the best guarantees in the business. Both LBC tactical bolt-guns “are guaranteed to shoot 10-shot groups under 1/2 MOA with match grade ammo.”



 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

Interesting. Seems to be quality parts and I know his Premier II 1.5" 1911 literally shoots below his actual guarantee (closer to 1.25"), so knowing LB his rifles will probably be very accurate and live up to his guarantee.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

Les Baer makes great guns, and I look forward to getting my hands on one, no question, but has anyone noticed that HS Precision has been guaranteeing 1/2" groups or better at 100 yards with all of their .30 cal and under rifles except the lightweight ones, for years?
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

....well whats the guarantee? If it doesn't shoot 1/2 MOA do I get an ice cream cone or a t-shirt? Not trying to be a skeptic here but often times the devil is in the details..
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....well whats the guarantee? If it doesn't shoot 1/2 MOA do I get an ice cream cone or a t-shirt? Not trying to be a skeptic here but often times the devil is in the details.. </div></div>

No, but you may get a new rifle with 300 rounds down the tube attempting to hit the guarantee...

Josh
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....well whats the guarantee? If it doesn't shoot 1/2 MOA do I get an ice cream cone or a t-shirt? Not trying to be a skeptic here but often times the devil is in the details.. </div></div>You will more than likely receive a test target showing that it has been done - guarantee met. Then it is up to you to match it or do better.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will more than likely receive a test target showing that it has been done - guarantee met. Then it is up to you to match it or do better. </div></div>

Exactly.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

I have two LB Super varmints and their test targets (two come with each gun) have 5 shot groups done at 100 yards off a sand bag rest (shot by Les himself) the first is .173 .182 the second gun is .218 and .207. He used Winchester Supreme on both. I can say that since I have owned the guns, they have shot many of targets in the low 2's and a handful in the high 1's with the same ammo.
I have little doubt that they will be able to achieve his 10 shots less then 1/2 moa as stated and yes..you will get two test targets with each gun as he did with the AR's.

funny, I have a cooper 21 in 223 and so many people poo-poo the target that comes with the gun. some say its shot indoors at 50 yards, others say indoors at 80 yards...call them its shot at 100 yards inside with a 36 dot leup...the handload is listed on the card (only the grains of powder and case length are omitted) and yes I have duplicated ragged 5 shot holes a few times at the range (outside) when condtions are very good.

that being said, i dont care for the stocks he selected to use..I wonder if it had more to due with sourcing on a timely basis then anything else..Mcmillan is probably backloged for some time on their stocks...
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walsh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the $3,600 I would expect a Manners or McMillian.....

Anyways that is a great guarantee!!</div></div>

When I got my NRA magazine today I saw an advertisement for the Les Baer rifle and that was the first thing I thought of when I saw the price - what, a B&C stock...hmm. Looks expensive to me for what you get. They are up against some pretty tough competion in that price range.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have two LB Super varmints and their test targets (two come with each gun) have 5 shot groups done at 100 yards off a sand bag rest (shot by Les himself) the first is .173 .182 the second gun is .218 and .207. He used Winchester Supreme on both. I can say that since I have owned the guns, they have shot many of targets in the low 2's and a handful in the high 1's with the same ammo. </div></div>Impressive!!!
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The new Les Baer Custom bolt-action rifles all feature a Stiller Tac 30 action with </div></div>

No doubt it will be a fine rifle; but I wouldn't call it custom. Looks like he offers a choice of 3 or 4 chamberings. Other than that, it's Les' choice of action, barrel, trigger, bottom metal and stock. I'm sure it'll shoot; but, for that kind of money, I want more input on the final product.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

i looked on the site and he now offers camo, and custom painting on the ar's...nodoubt he will also extend this to the rifles....

and yeah, it is a turnkey approach to a rifle...i suppose in time, you could request a shorter barrel and he would be able to do this for a fee $$.

my question is this, with a current gap rifle (not to pick on them but they have a terrific reputation) and the best factory match ammo (you pick) can they generate sub 1/2 inch 10 shot groups at 100?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The new Les Baer Custom bolt-action rifles all feature a Stiller Tac 30 action with </div></div>

No doubt it will be a fine rifle; but I wouldn't call it custom. Looks like he offers a choice of 3 or 4 chamberings. Other than that, it's Les' choice of action, barrel, trigger, bottom metal and stock. I'm sure it'll shoot; but, for that kind of money, I want more input on the final product. </div></div>
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

The new Les Baer bolt action rifles were at the SHOT show. I went over to look at them and was not excited, mainly due to their high price. Maybe I'm missed something, like very light weight or an exceptionally smooth action, but I would pick a GAP, KWM APA,... instead.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

I'll pass. If I'm gonna drop 3K+ on a precision rig, it's going to be from someone that is proven.

Granted, LB does make some nice guns, but I don't think you can just walk into the realm of long range shooting carrying your guarantees and riding your high priced name/reputation.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

It is kind of typical with les baer. You pay a premium price for the firearm, but some of the components are, dare I say, cheap?

I have had a few LB AR's pass by me. $2400-$2600 for a rifle with a $15 standard collaspable stock, a $2 nylon sling. Not to mention the backwards castle nut.

Nothing against B&C, but as far as quality, they aren't mcmillian or HS.

just my humble opinion
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BeachGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to mention the backwards castle nut.</div></div>

LB takes a lot of flack over this, I'm not sure why they continue to do it when it's such a simple thing.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BeachGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to mention the backwards castle nut.</div></div>

LB takes a lot of flack over this, I'm not sure why they continue to do it when it's such a simple thing. </div></div>

According to LB, it is installed that way to prevent snagging.

I have other opinions on this, but this isn't the place, and it would be off topic.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

I am somewhat underwhelmed by Les Baer's choice of both stock and trigger. For that kind of money, I should get my choice of trigger, barrel, and stock. I don't expect to see them jumping off the shelf.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

The bottom metal on the Tactical Recon is absolute crap. Single stack magazine with lots of slop and feeding problems... I have one and am impressed with the accuracy, but extremely disappointed in the trigger guard, magazine system. When I ordered the gun, I was looking for a replacement for my single shot 6.5X284. A 10 round magazine was the closer. Now that I have it, I am disappointed. I am hoping to replace the Magazine system with a Long Action Badger Ordinance Magazine system. Shot a team match with it and did reasonably well, except for the feeding problems.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: customshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">family member...Bruce Bear.... big daddy in BR.... </div></div>

So, what's your point?
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

What I find interesting is this sudden trend amongst the semi-custom 1911 shops to randomly hop into the precision rifle world: Ed Brown, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk...why do they feel the need to start cranking out bolt guns, when they can't keep up with demand on their 1911s? If I need a Wilson Combat for a customer, it's going to be a six month wait at best. So clearly what I need is more bolt-actions from custom pistol shops? What's missing here?
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

Just picked two up in .260. The test targets are 10 in <1/4 with black hills factory 139gr. Ill see what I can do with them and get back to you. have not noticed any magazine problems, but have not shot them yet either. Did not come with the bipod like it says on the website so I will be following up on that and the case it comes in is nothing special. Beautiful work and I have no complaints about the stock, I got the classic varmint stocks though.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I find interesting is this sudden trend amongst the semi-custom 1911 shops to randomly hop into the precision rifle world: Ed Brown, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk...why do they feel the need to start cranking out bolt guns, when they can't keep up with demand on their 1911s? If I need a Wilson Combat for a customer, it's going to be a six month wait at best. So clearly what I need is more bolt-actions from custom pistol shops? What's missing here?</div></div>

Brown is already out. I am not sure of the others. I think what they are looking at is the relative simplicity of the bolt gun and the high prices they are fetching. Tactical precision rifles are "in."

But then, look what they are turning out. There is not really a niche for a semi-custom bolt gun the way that there is a niche for semi-custom 1911's. With a semi-custom 1911, you can get most of the value of a fully custom 1911 at a pretty substantially reduced cost.

A semi-custom bolt gun does not provide a similar value proposition. Either you skimp on the parts (like Baer has) or you provide a product that costs what a fully custom bolt gun does... and there is no differentiation.

This is why Brown has left the market. There is a lot of labor that goes into a bolt gun and the margins just aren't there like they might seem to be.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

Had one out shooting. Its humbling knowing Les put 10 rds into about <.2 at 100 and I am having trouble doing .5x10 at 100. Possibly the most accurate rifle I have shot, but the fit and finish is not up to par with my GAP's. The barrel on one is not down the center of the barrel channel and the feeding is rough and unrefined. The magazine rattles in the mag well so I am thinking about replacing the bottom metal. Not what I want to do after spending 3k per rifle. They are much lighter weight than my other custom rifles they point well and are comfortable. The barrel is the easiest barrel to clean that I have ever had. quite literally 3-5 patches with nylon brush between to clean. this is after 30-50 rds of .260. Great rifles but I will not be buying any more until Les changes to better bottom metal
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papagallos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Send it back. Three grand merits a return for better service after a sale has been made. </div></div>

I am frankly surprised that they cut corners with a B&C stock and wyatts DBM. Don't get me wrong, these are ok products if you understand what you are buying and make the conscious choice to use the budget options. I have defended my experience with B&C on here a few times.

But Les isn't advertising a middle-of-the-road budget precision rifle. They are advertising "... performance that just won’t quit because just like Les Baer’s ultra accurate semi-auto ARs, these guns are built by Les Baer Custom from the ground up with only the very best parts" - quoted from the website directly.

I don't think a B&C is "ahead of the art" nor would anyone argue that the Wyatt's DBM qualifies as one of "the very best parts".

Not to mention the absurd overuse of the word tactical on that site. If you are not an operator using it in an operational manner that is distinctly more focused than a strategic operation, then it is not tactical.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

Les Baer is way overpriced for what you get.I dont have any of his rifle products,but I do have his so called 1911 pistol drop in parts,which are anything but,and I have some of his shotgun upgrades and the products are no better than any others that can be purchsaed for a lot less elsewhere.Probably paying for the name more than anything else...
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

I have one of his AR15's Police Special's with two mods:
PRS Stock
Giessle Trigger

It will shoot consistent moa at 100 yds. 10 shot groups. With a more experienced shooter.....probably 1/2 to 3/4.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

Two comments

My wife is shooting the police carbine. Modified with a Geissele 3 gun trigger and Magpul stock and scoped with a Leupy M4. Will shoot .5MOA all day long off an Atlas and rear bag.
I took one of the .308 bolt guns and put it in a Manners chassis t 5A which Tom was kind enough to fit and bed for me. The B&C was fine but the T5 is way better. The Badger bottom metal and AICS mags are too. I ended up with a very comfortable sub .5MOA Rifle. Obviously I could and perhaps should have gone fully custom to begin with. On the other hand I was initially looking for rapid gratification which I got. I suspect that's why Les went with the Wyatt's and B&C to begin with-rapid availability and a really accurate rifle. Obviously the mechanical core of the rifle (Stiller Tac 30 action and Les' custom barrel) is as good as anyone's.
Seems to me one has to decide on the goal. If it is an off the shelf great shooter the factory package works well. If a custom or a piece of art there are other perhaps more linear choices. I've ended up with a custom rifle which is both beautiful and a hammer but I took a circuitous route getting there.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speeddog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two comments

My wife is shooting the police carbine. Modified with a Geissele 3 gun trigger and Magpul stock and scoped with a Leupy M4. Will shoot .5MOA all day long off an Atlas and rear bag.
I took one of the .308 bolt guns and put it in a Manners chassis t 5A which Tom was kind enough to fit and bed for me. The B&C was fine but the T5 is way better. The Badger bottom metal and AICS mags are too. I ended up with a very comfortable sub .5MOA Rifle. Obviously I could and perhaps should have gone fully custom to begin with. On the other hand I was initially looking for rapid gratification which I got. I suspect that's why Les went with the Wyatt's and B&C to begin with-rapid availability and a really accurate rifle. Obviously the mechanical core of the rifle (Stiller Tac 30 action and Les' custom barrel) is as good as anyone's.
Seems to me one has to decide on the goal. If it is an off the shelf great shooter the factory package works well. If a custom or a piece of art there are other perhaps more linear choices. I've ended up with a custom rifle which is both beautiful and a hammer but I took a circuitous route getting there.
</div></div>

Any pics??
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

My thoughts...

It's not custom, it's a puzzle that someone else puts together

Do we know how good LBC's barrels are going to be?

Accuracy gurantees are retarded and useless.

B&C stock and Wyatt DBM? Seriously?

For that money I'll take a GAP that will easily do 10 shots under .5 and have it built with quality components.

Just another example of someone trying to take advantage of their "brand" and not giving a crap about the end user.
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SVG308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speeddog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two comments

My wife is shooting the police carbine. Modified with a Geissele 3 gun trigger and Magpul stock and scoped with a Leupy M4. Will shoot .5MOA all day long off an Atlas and rear bag.
I took one of the .308 bolt guns and put it in a Manners chassis t 5A which Tom was kind enough to fit and bed for me. The B&C was fine but the T5 is way better. The Badger bottom metal and AICS mags are too. I ended up with a very comfortable sub .5MOA Rifle. Obviously I could and perhaps should have gone fully custom to begin with. On the other hand I was initially
looking for rapid gratification which I got. I suspect that's why Les went with the Wyatt's and B&C to begin with-rapid availability and a really accurate rifle. Obviously the mechanical core of the rifle (Stiller Tac 30 action and Les' custom barrel) is as good as anyone's.


Seems to me one has to decide on the goal. If it is an off the shelf great shooter the factory package works well. If a custom or a piece of art there are other perhaps more linear choices. I've ended up with a custom rifle which is both beautiful and a hammer but I took a circuitous route getting there.
</div></div>

Any pics?? </div></div>



I'm on call for a few days and not at home. See what I can do after I get back
 
Re: Les Baer is going to make bolt guns

Agreed. How can anyone qualify accuracy for a 10 shot group? Do they think everyone buying these rifles is a highly experienced BR shooter? <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My thoughts...

It's not custom, it's a puzzle that someone else puts together

Do we know how good LBC's barrels are going to be?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Accuracy gurantees are retarded and useless. </span>

B&C stock and Wyatt DBM? Seriously?

For that money I'll take a GAP that will easily do 10 shots under .5 and have it built with quality components.

Just another example of someone trying to take advantage of their "brand" and not giving a crap about the end user. </div></div>