Let’s talk calipers

[Nimothy]

So I’ve been running 2 cheap franklin Arsenal calipers for a couple years, one with a headspace comparitor on it the other with they ogive. They both died this week (I feel like they served me well) I have a set of old mitutyo dials for just my regulars( no add ons). I want to upgrade, but want the best bang for my buck so to speak. I’d like y’all to give your opinions on what/where to buy them. And keep in mind id like two sets. And should like machinist grade.

 

[Yerman]

I like these

https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-500...al+Caliper&qid=1584557606&s=industrial&sr=1-3

 

[47guy]

I like these

https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-500...al+Caliper&qid=1584557606&s=industrial&sr=1-3

this^^^

 

[pmclaine]

I live/work near Athol MA.

I advocate for American jobs/workers and suggest getting a US made set from Starrett.

Choose carefully though as I think even some of the Starett line is made in Corona land

 

[Steel head]

 

[Nimothy]

I’ve read that amazon ones are fake. Have y’all experienced that? If not, that’s seems like a 2good to be true price. I thought the real ones were in the 200 range

 

[spife7980]

I’ve read that amazon ones are fake. Have y’all experienced that? If not, that’s seems like a 2good to be true price. I thought the real ones were in the 200 range

Some are if you get the fluid proof and computer connecting models.

I got my mity 500-196s from msiviking when they were on sale for 89 bucks a few years ago, genuine article. Currently the amazon price looks as good as anything though.

 

[Nimothy]

I ordered them. Thanks y’all. I love this place you get the answer and tips in less than 3 hours. Saved me close to 200$ on two pair.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

I also prefer two, one set up for measuring BTO and other as a headspace comparator.

Ive had the same two Mitutoyo digital calipers (50075220) being used in this fashion for about 8 years now? There are cheaper Mitutoyo options available.

I also have a drawer with 4-6 cheap harbor freight calipers that haven’t lasted, but did enough for the little $ they cost.

Do you want to spend $20 ten times or $200 once?

 

[Dthomas3523]

I have the mitituyo as well.

Just keep in mind they (like most all calipers) may not do so well as small things.

Here is a pic with calipers and mic. This was after both were verified with a .5” gauge block. Both measured the block at .500 exactly. Then gave this measurement:

Calipers would do the same then when measuring loaded neck diameters. Be about .002 smaller than what it is.

 

[Nimothy]

I have the mitituyo as well.

Just keep in mind they (like most all calipers) may not do so well as small things.

Here is a pic with calipers and mic. This was after both were verified with a .5” gauge block. Both measured the block at .500 exactly. Then gave this measurement:

Calipers would do the same then when measuring loaded neck diameters. Be about .002 smaller than what it is.

That’s interesting, I wouldn’t have thought that. What’s the alternative, a more expensive pair? Or dials?

 

[Dthomas3523]

That’s interesting, I wouldn’t have thought that. What’s the alternative, a more expensive pair? Or dials?

Dial calipers (as it could be the digital read) or using outside micrometers for small measurements.

Interestingly, it seems to be pretty close with neck wall thickness (in-line with my analog mitituyo inside mics).

But basically, I use the calipers for things like shoulder bump and outside micrometers for thinks like neck diameter.

 

[Nimothy]

I use a Redding Gauge for neck thickness I bought it nib off of accurateshooter, it’s serves me very well. But I’m also a neckturner, I see some guys just write it off as unnecessary, I think it’s absolutely needed for consistency. And this is a very inexpensive option that’s easy and consistent to use.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I use a Redding Gauge for neck thickness I bought it nib off of accurateshooter, it’s serves me very well. But I’m also a neckturner, I see some guys just write it off as unnecessary, I think it’s absolutely needed for consistency. And this is a very inexpensive option that’s easy and consistent to use. View attachment 7276482

I neck turn as well. It’s an easy way to get your ES way down.

I use a mitituyo inside micrometer for mine.

 

[Nimothy]

I live/work near Athol MA.

I advocate for American jobs/workers and suggest getting a US made set from Starrett.

Choose carefully though as I think even some of the Starett line is made in Corona land

I gotta ask do you think they make them all
In house? If not, wouldn’t you employ the same number as just an importer, like how luepold
Scopes are assembled here, but not exactly made here. You think luepold (if they made the same number of scopes, I know this isn’t apples to apples) employs the same number as night force or vortex? We as much as it sucks to say need other countries for our tech manufacturing, the American won’t do it for the same price. And let’s be honest it probably wouldn’t be as good. made in the USA doesn’t mean the same thing it did 50-60 years ago. So I say buy where you can get the best product, a lot of times that is American, sometimes it’s not. Ie. scope glass, plastic pissols, electronics.

 

[Nimothy]

I neck turn as well. It’s an easy way to get your ES way down.

I use a mitituyo inside micrometer for mine.

I always felt like I needed 3 hands with those type mics, lol, I guess I shouldn’t have been a cheap ass and bought the stand. The Redding tool is very convenient, I recommend it to people that want to neck turn all the time. It’s 125$Ish with all the mandrels most need. And kinda fool proof, I like how it stabilizes on the case neck and flash hole

 

[Dthomas3523]

I always felt like I needed 3 hands with those type mics, lol, I guess I shouldn’t have been a cheap ass and bought the stand. The Redding tool is very convenient, I recommend it to people that want to neck turn all the time. It’s 125$Ish with all the mandrels most need. And kinda fool proof, I like how it stabilizes on the case neck and flash hole

I have a stand for mine. I might try the Redding just because I like trying different gadgets.

 

[Nimothy]

I have a stand for mine. I might try the Redding just because I like trying different gadgets.

If you like high end measurement tools I’m sure you could upgrade the dial, most seem pretty standard

 

[Centuriator]

Is this a 9mm v. 45ACP caliper debate?

 

[pmclaine]

I gotta ask do you think they make them all
In house? If not, wouldn’t you employ the same number as just an importer, like how luepold
Scopes are assembled here, but not exactly made here. You think luepold (if they made the same number of scopes, I know this isn’t apples to apples) employs the same number as night force or vortex? We as much as it sucks to say need other countries for our tech manufacturing, the American won’t do it for the same price. And let’s be honest it probably wouldn’t be as good. made in the USA doesn’t mean the same thing it did 50-60 years ago. So I say buy where you can get the best product, a lot of times that is American, sometimes it’s not. Ie. scope glass, plastic pissols, electronics.

I think their analog instruments are made in Athol.

The price reflects that. You wont pay less than $150 for the Athol instrument.

Electronics are all chicom.

Look if the present situation doesnt convince you of the need for domestic manufacturing nothing will.

Americans are doing it for "the same price" problem is foreign manufacturers dont follow our American regulations.

Where as Athol Starret drums all their lathe coolant and pays to recycle it China washes that shit out into the Yangtze River.

Athol is forced to put safety guards up to protect workers. China just sweeps away the amputated fingers and gets another slave that can count to ten.

We are currently unable to supply the health care workers with PPE because China aint sending any.

If that seems okay than I guess Im chicken little.

Ill buy used but looks well cared for off EBay before I buy CoronaFluSourced.

 

[ZiaHunter]

I have been using a Brown & Sharp/Tesa digital calipers for several years now and very pleases with the unit. The US made Starrett tools are very well made and have a number of their instruments in my tool set. The Starrett Chicom made stuff is not of the same quality.

 

[Nimothy]

I think their analog instruments are made in Athol.

The price reflects that. You wont pay less than $150 for the Athol instrument.

Electronics are all chicom.

Look if the present situation doesnt convince you of the need for domestic manufacturing nothing will.

Americans are doing it for "the same price" problem is foreign manufacturers dont follow our American regulations.

Where as Athol Starret drums all their lathe coolant and pays to recycle it China washes that shit out into the Yangtze River.

Athol is forced to put safety guards up to protect workers. China just sweeps away the amputated fingers and gets another slave that can count to ten.

We are currently unable to supply the health care workers with PPE because China aint sending any.

If that seems okay than I guess Im chicken little.

Ill buy used but looks well cared for off EBay before I buy CoronaFluSourced.

I get what you are saying, paper and rubber plants that make ppe are a far different thing than electronics. Are you willing to quadruple the price of everything in your house with a board in it? Idk if I am. As for other regulations I think if they are government mandated, eh, maybe they shouldn’t put uncle sams nose where it doesn’t belong. I’m probably not the person to speak to stick up for that sort of thing. Like I said I get what you are saying. But also I’d like to point out that the calipers most people recommended were from japan. Same as your scope buddy. Not chicom although I’m willing to bet a ton of money they have Chinese parts in em

 

[pmclaine]

I get what you are saying, paper and rubber plants that make ppe are a far different thing than electronics. Are you willing to quadruple the price of everything in your house with a board in it? Idk if I am. As for other regulations I think if they are government mandated, eh, maybe they shouldn’t put uncle sams nose where it doesn’t belong. I’m probably not the person to speak to stick up for that sort of thing. Like I said I get what you are saying. But also I’d like to point out that the calipers most people recommended were from japan. Same as your scope buddy. Not chicom although I’m willing to bet a ton of money they have Chinese parts in em

You seem to accept we cant do electronics?

Where were most of the advancements in electronics made?

Apple started in an American garage.

Im not totally against government regulation when it comes to creating a law such as......your operations shall not pollute nor be harmful to workers/consumers.

I think there is better understanding of that these days and there should be accountability when a business knowingly and negligently operates.

Buying from businesses that do not operate at our standards is criminal. Why does the govt require our business to follow a standard yet buys from one that doesnt. You would think the green movement would stop our off shore trade just to shut down fossil fueled container ship traffic via the Pacific.

Japan is a democracy and has standards similar to ours. I have less issues buying from peer democracies.

China is having to build its factories now to a standard that meets ours, the labor pool though is such humans are just spare parts.

Everyone will soon jettison humans and robots will be the norm for production.

I dont blindly buy US as I require that the manufacture be responsible to me.

I wont buy shit just because it bears a flag and sure there is a lot of stuff that is marketed that way - "Buy this because 'Murica".

Often times though I can see the American product will provide comparable or exceeding quality and Im willing (fortunate enough) to be able to pay the added price.

If the foreign product exceeds the quality of the US alternative Ill buy foreign.

For scopes I have old Unertl external adjustments, USO, Premier, Leupold, Trijicon, Aimpoint, S&B, Kollmorgen.......all are exceptional and do what I require them to do. Some have Stars and Stripes on the box, some dont.

 

[Nimothy]

You seem to accept we cant do electronics?

Where were most of the advancements in electronics made?

Apple started in an American garage.

Im not totally against government regulation when it comes to creating a law such as......your operations shall not pollute nor be harmful to workers/consumers.

I think there is better understanding of that these days and there should be accountability when a business knowingly and negligently operates.

Buying from businesses that do not operate at our standards is criminal. Why does the govt require our business to follow a standard yet buys from one that doesnt. You would think the green movement would stop our off shore trade just to shut down fossil fueled container ship traffic via the Pacific.

Japan is a democracy and has standards similar to ours. I have less issues buying from peer democracies.

China is having to build its factories now to a standard that meets ours, the labor pool though is such humans are just spare parts.

Everyone will soon jettison humans and robots will be the norm for production.

I dont blindly buy US as I require that the manufacture be responsible to me.

I wont buy shit just because it bears a flag and sure there is a lot of stuff that is marketed that way - "Buy this because 'Murica".

Often times though I can see the American product will provide comparable or exceeding quality and Im willing (fortunate enough) to be able to pay the added price.

If the foreign product exceeds the quality of the US alternative Ill buy foreign.

For scopes I have old Unertl external adjustments, USO, Premier, Leupold, Trijicon, Aimpoint, S&B, Kollmorgen.......all are exceptional and do what I require them to do. Some have Stars and Stripes on the box, some dont.

In electronics they do exceed the quality of American. And you do buy them. Like I said even if it’s an American product it is fitted with Asian electronics. No way around it. Government exists in industry to rob the people that either buy it or make it, no other reasons. The reason they buy from less regulated foreign businesses is because they know what they are doing is wrong. That regulation is wrong. taxation whatever it is for is wrong. I understand this isn’t popular opinion

 

[pmclaine]

In electronics they do exceed the quality of American. And you do buy them. Like I said even if it’s an American product it is fitted with Asian electronics. No way around it. Government exists in industry to rob the people that either buy it or make it, no other reasons. The reason they buy from less regulated foreign businesses is because they know what they are doing is wrong. That regulation is wrong. taxation whatever it is for is wrong. I understand this isn’t popular opinion

No I think we are in agreement....Govt is the problem

 

[Nimothy]

No I think we are in agreement....Govt is the problem

Funny how you find like minds in place like this. Hahaha

 

[Gil P.]

I have the mitituyo as well.

Just keep in mind they (like most all calipers) may not do so well as small things.

Here is a pic with calipers and mic. This was after both were verified with a .5” gauge block. Both measured the block at .500 exactly. Then gave this measurement:

Calipers would do the same then when measuring loaded neck diameters. Be about .002 smaller than what it is.

Did your caliper come with the paper that says it's calibrated correctly?

 

[Josh1978]

You won’t go wrong with Starrett. I have had a pair for over 20 years and they still work like new.

 

[padom]

I’ve read that amazon ones are fake. Have y’all experienced that? If not, that’s seems like a 2good to be true price. I thought the real ones were in the 200 range

Nope thats normal price for that model. Buy from Amazon direct, not 3rd part sellers. You can get fakes from 3rd party sellers but the sold by amazon ones are not fake

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I'm just throwing a few facts and realities out there, into the mix, to help confuse the issue. Ya'll take this for what it's all worth.

Calipers, in general, are only for "comparing" in the TRUE sense of the word. Ask any machinist/tool-and-die-maker/Obsessive-Compulsive-Neurotic and they'll all tell you the same thing. They are only for measuring the differences or similarities between any number of given items.

BUT, if you want to ACTUALLY measure for ACTUAL 'scientific' necessity and ACTUAL numbers for something NASA or Nuclear level requirement, then that is where the 'definite correctness' of the item measured needs to be 'completely accurate'.

Long before the invention of the "dial" readout, let alone the "digital" readout on the fancy-schmancey calipers.... there was a thing called the Vernier scale.
Those who actually used the tool for their job, knew to call them "very-near" scales. This is because 3 different operators could get 3 different measurements on the same item, using the same set of calipers. All because of the peculiarities and idoisyncracies of how they each held the tool, applied the tool, and the 'finger pressure' that they employed the tool with.

The same possibility exists with micrometers, but those who actually need to use a micrometer for their Trade know to use the knurling on the barrel as opposed to the "spring-clutch" on the end. (no two springs have the same tension/compression factor)

The point of the point that I'm blathering here, and to make a short story VERY long, is simply the application of the tool and the user of it. Take the measurement for what it is, and go with it. Any changes that you make, you can compare with your previous measurements. Just as long as you use the same tool in the same way, given the same parameters.

Calipers are also known as (tongue-in-cheek) "Optical Comparitors", and no.... not the scientific kind of them things. Just simply a "comparison" between the dimensions of one part vs. the next part.

If you REALLY want to dive down into the actual precise and scientific measurement equipment, then check out/google the actual "optical comparitor" and see how they work and what they do. Then you'll really take a step back, and relax a bit about "good calipers" and whatnot.

It's all figurative. Just adding my dos-centavo's,,, and you own me change back AND a coffee by this time. HA.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Did your caliper come with the paper that says it's calibrated correctly?

Yep. But this is the nature of calipers.

 

[Gil P.]

Edit

I find when I measure my Whidden neck bushings with the ID jaws I get an accurate measurement. Or at least the same ID that Whidden claims.

 

[Gustav7]

When I first started reloading I bought a set of cheap General calipers from Cabelas with my Lyman reloading kit. They’ve fortunately worked well for me for 9 years.

This year I finally invested in a pair of Starrett 120A’s and I love them. Had a machinist buddy pick a pair off eBay used for me. They’re pretty legit and I actually like having the dial.

To my surprise, my General calipers are on point with my Starrett. Nicest part is having two calipers to do different things

 

[mcfred]

I have the mitituyo as well.

<snip>

Here is a pic with calipers and mic. This was after both were verified with a .5” gauge block. Both measured the block at .500 exactly. Then gave this measurement:

Might benefit from adusting the recessed screws on the back side to tighten it up. They can loosen up over time (wear) and the mechanism can rack out of square. It's part of regular maintenance on all dial/digital calipers. Also, where you measure with the jaws can matter too. If you close the jaws and see light through the gap, there's a high spot somewhere and the jaws will measure differently at different spots along their surfaces.

I just bought a 0-6" Mitutoyo caliper. It's new and tight, and it gauges the same 0-4" on gauge blocks and pins and projectiles. Something is up with your pair.

 

[lunatic209]

I have an iGaging origin cal, not a bad digital caliper for the price you pay $40. Haven't had it long so can't comment on long term use but it is really good, always gives consistent readout/measurement.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

I am a big fan of older Brown & Sharpe tools. They can be found for bargains and are right up there with Starret/Mit (some would argue better depending on what it is).

You can get high quality swiss made calipers for around $50. I have a bunch in both inch and metric. I could buy 3 of these for what a new starret would cost, and it gives up nothing to them.

 

[Faronth]

I live/work near Athol MA.

I advocate for American jobs/workers and suggest getting a US made set from Starrett.

Choose carefully though as I think even some of the Starett line is made in Corona land

I second the recommendation to buy Starrett. I worked with them closely for several years in a previous career, eventually training their entire national sale’s staff on the software tools we sold them. I have been in Doug Starrett’s office and walked away with a few Starrett items curtesy of Doug himself.

They have 2nd and 3rd generation employee’s working there. Great American company, great American product.

 

[pmclaine]

I second the recommendation to buy Starrett. I worked with them closely for several years in a previous career, eventually training their entire national sale’s staff on the software tools we sold them. I have been in Doug Starrett’s office and walked away with a few Starrett items curtesy of Doug himself.

They have 2nd and 3rd generation employee’s working there. Great American company, great American product.

Do you know who rides the "J" model Harley I have seen parked there?

 

[Faronth]

Do you know who rides the "J" model Harley I have seen parked there?

No I do not.

It has been a long time since I worked with them. They were a great group of guys though.

 

[ofelas]

100% agreed on Swiss made Browne & Sharpe.

I use their dial calipers for COAL & their outside micrometers for neck diameter, they have been a bit more consistent over the years than Starrett & Mituyo for me.

I am a big fan of older Brown & Sharpe tools. They can be found for bargains and are right up there with Starret/Mit (some would argue better depending on what it is).

You can get high quality swiss made calipers for around $50. I have a bunch in both inch and metric. I could buy 3 of these for what a new starret would cost, and it gives up nothing to them.

 

[KML7201]

I was looking to buy a new caliper as well. I emailed Starrett and was told none of their digital calipers were manufactured in the US.

 

[pmclaine]

I was looking to buy a new caliper as well. I emailed Starrett and was told none of their digital calipers were manufactured in the US.

Wouldnt expect them to be. Sadly we have come to the manufacturing point that indicates the USA can not build electronics.

Someone tell Kestrel.

Their mechanical stuff will work just fine.

 

[Chisel]

Better than 40 years in the machine trade;
Starrett model 120 - dial;
Digital is BS - there is no feel;
When you close a 120 on a part, there is a thud;
Others like the B&S or Mituyo - for my money it's the 120