Fieldcraft Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

[wpdrebel]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

i recently worked a suicide where a man shot himself with a .22 he put the barrel in his mouth and fired. i was suprised with the platter it caused. there was no exit but the bullet was just under the top of the mans skull, just above the forehead.

 

[Limey-]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I have seen lots of folks shot with lots of calibers. The 22 is a common round seen in urban trauma. They are often pretty darned Lethal dependant on shot placement. They are more often not lethal due to shot placement or lack thereof.

 

[Camo_Toe]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

The Marlin model 60 has been a long time favortie of Safari hunters!

 

[dbird180]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

great post DF!

little bit shocked at amount of penetration, like most of those that have posted..
shot plenty-o-gopher with .22lr from short to middle range and have much respect for it.
I feel like most posts, it should be respected as a probable leathal offensive round in the right hands, and more the score a "hit" that hopefully is an encounter ender for defence.
If it can kill a horse it can kill a person. That said, there is not much mass to it, so yes, it must hit something vital, easier said than done.

 

[deliciouspizza]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Excellent post. Of course I'd much rather have something bigger, but after reading this I have more respect for our little friend the .22.

 

[eddieo]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I use a little .22 in a rifle and pistol for regular pest control. They ae out of this world for accuracy and efficiency... cheap as shit to fire and a good days shooting to be had for very little money...

Anyone underestimated this little fella, better think again.

 

[eddieo]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">alright i concur that a .22 will hit and penetrate, but i would consider "lethality" to mean "fight stopping" and a .22 aint it. mostly folks shot with it still have a whack at the shooter. theres no expansion or temporary expanded wound channel to devastatingly stop the tango and the hole created is so small that it easily closes itself preventing massive hemmorage in many cases. sure theyre likely to die but maybe after killing you, your team, your family, your dog, everyone you know... </div></div>

Marduk. A buddy of mine some years ago hit a bad guy at about 75 yards with a little .22lr rifle, to the left side of the left eyebrow. Dropped him like a stone ! wasnt there to see it myself but another bud was and he said the bad guy just tumbled up in a ball after the hit. 1 shot

 

[killahog]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Thanks for that test DF I think all that would be to much work but I do have alot of real world experiance with the 22 I can contest that they kill deer, coyotees, Even a very very large Rotwiller I have also shot hundreds of rounds at ranges out to 300 yards at prairy dogs. o and for turkeys I shot them in the Head they also die quickly. thanks again

 

[AZ15]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

What's up Frog! You Californians... taking lead out of the turkey...

 

[MAC-10_Justice]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

There was a kid home alone some time ago back in early nineties late eighties that grabbed a marlin 22 long rifle to defend himself against 2 men breaking into the house and he killed the shit out of them with it. think it made national news. The 22 also has always been top choice for mafia hits it rattles around in the skull quite a bit. i have seen a lot of 22 gunshot victims i think mostly because they lose respect for what the cartridge can do and they become careless.

The bullets tend to ricochet like crazy and leave some pretty impressive wounds in people. On top of that there is hardly any noise or recoil so u can easily fill somebody with enough lead that they can use their dick for a pencil if uhave like a 10/22.

 

[AnthonyRMC]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

An excellent thread for sure.

Thank you.

 

[22longrange]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

New to this board. This 22lr thread is great.

I mostly use the Marlin Model 60(which I have 4 of) for target practice. If using standard velocity bullets do this well at range I wonder how the CCI Stingers (1640fps) and other high velocity .22 rounds will do. With ammo becoming more scarce I have been stocking up on high velocity .22 which is still available.

Midway has the Aguila Interceptor (1470 fps) for sale for $47/box500.

 

[softcock]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I already said something way early in this Thread about how I think that the .22 subsonic match is " Grossly Underestimated " for lethality and penetration. I been lobbing .22 match for many years & got another reminder of just how " Efficient " it is.
last week and for the second time over the last few years. Most time I just hunt at Night for coyote. I caught another Coyote out mouseing in the latter morning hour. was easy In-Range and daylight . So I slid the truck into a side road and punched 129 yrd. on the LFR. Did the holdover, One-Shot to the noggin, suppressed and quiet too.
.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

alright ballistics testing recently find that:

a. the 22lr fired from a 1911 ciener slide at 30 feet backlit by a walmart surefire clone is one shot one kill effective on field mice running the barn rafters. and,

2. three shots fired from ruger 10/22 at 2 feet in broad daylight, (first round to fore head, second to the eye and third base of skull slightly from behind) leaves boar pig squealing and flopping and trying to attack or run away for nearly five minutes.

my conclusion "22lr lethality" is misnomer unless yer talkin rodents.

 

[pascal]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

This was already covered on page 2.

The definition of Lethality is: "capable to kill".

 

[g5]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

This is one fine thread.

 

[chain]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

This is great. I shoot my 10/22 alot but not enough. I need to get a trigger, the one on my rifle was designed and built by a law firm. Best way I know of to teach a young shooter basics and also lethality. I have killed some big things with the 22 and some things that are hard to kill. Good thread.

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

i worked on a farm in the late 50's, and whenever a calf or cow died i would always take them to a place way back in the woods. there was a large pack of wild dogs that would come to feed and i had a perfect field of view from a tree i sat in. i used a win model 62a and whatever ammo that mr dave bought. distance was abt50 yards and i head shot only. they would almost always drop in there tracks.that little round did a great job on them. i would never under gunned taking a 22 into a situation were i needed a weapon and that was the only one i could get my hands on.

 

[SpizyChicken]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

A man after my own heart! Our at least my own curiosities in .22 lethality.

I have a P22 for home defense and conceal carry. (saving for 2 more guns in the 9MM and .40 Cal).

But I grew up on a farm and we used a standard .22lr Ruger from 1964 and some old cheap .22 ammo to slaughter our animals all the time.
I'm talking Full Size 150+lb GOATS with big thick heads.

Granted, it was from about 3 feet. But one shot kill every time. Never had two use a second round. EVER. Rabbits, Goats, etc.
One shot, One Kill. They would drop instantly.

I shot the same old Ruger at an old full size fridge we had and it went clean through the front and out the back.

I also put it through TWO 2x4s and into a 3rd at about 25 feet. Some of the rounds started to fragment but kept shredding through and made a nice mess out of the wood. (bone?)

We also had an old car we would shoot up. The .22LR round would easily penetrate the windshield from the front, go through the driver seat, and into the trunk no problem.

Even had it go through both driver and passenger side door many times.

I honestly think with all the hype on larger calibers, this and that, that people have simply underrated the .22lr. They almost see it as the new BB gun. (Big Mistake)

Did you see Mythbusters? You would actually be safer under water at 3 feet from a .50 CAL Sniper Rifle then a .22LR shot.

I wouldn't want to ever got shot with one. And I challenge all those Naysayers to go stand out at around 15 feet (a good home defense range) and let me shoot you with 10 rounds of CCI Stinger from my Walther P22 and see how "NON-LETHAL" it is. After all, it's just a "plinker" and a toy gun for shooting mice. Just a "Mice or Snake Round"

Eh uh. NOT.

 

[Former0302]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I remember reading how Chris McCandless dropped a moose with a Remington Nylon 66, .22LR in John Krakauer's recounting of his Alaskan misadventure in Into the Wild. When the story was first published as a magazine article, peopled cried BS becuase they couldn't believe a .22LR would drop a moose.

A .22LR clearly isn't an ethical big game caliber...but another example of how it can deal out some death.

Great thread, mostly becuase it proves how important it is to respect any weapon. Complacency kills.

FYI...as is usually the case...the book Into the Wild is FAR BETTER than the movie.

 

[Vic303]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Great testing! Loved the post.

 

[sailronin]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I know that this has been up for a while but, great work. I'm going to get a 22lr after getting over the sticker shock of .308 ammo this week.
Looking at either Savage, Sako Finnfire or Anschutz but having a hard time deciding. Understand Anschutz is the best but really expensive, Finnfire is beautiful and expensive and Savage will be a good shooter but may need tuning...
Decisions, decisions....

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spizy Chicken</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A man after my own heart! Our at least my own curiosities in .22 lethality.

I have a P22 for home defense and conceal carry. (saving for 2 more guns in the 9MM and .40 Cal).

But I grew up on a farm and we used a standard .22lr Ruger from 1964 and some old cheap .22 ammo to slaughter our animals all the time.
I'm talking Full Size 150+lb GOATS with big thick heads.

Granted, it was from about 3 feet. But one shot kill every time. Never had two use a second round. EVER. Rabbits, Goats, etc.
One shot, One Kill. They would drop instantly.

I shot the same old Ruger at an old full size fridge we had and it went clean through the front and out the back.

I also put it through TWO 2x4s and into a 3rd at about 25 feet. Some of the rounds started to fragment but kept shredding through and made a nice mess out of the wood. (bone?)

We also had an old car we would shoot up. The .22LR round would easily penetrate the windshield from the front, go through the driver seat, and into the trunk no problem.

Even had it go through both driver and passenger side door many times.

I honestly think with all the hype on larger calibers, this and that, that people have simply underrated the .22lr. They almost see it as the new BB gun. (Big Mistake)

Did you see Mythbusters? You would actually be safer under water at 3 feet from a .50 CAL Sniper Rifle then a .22LR shot.

I wouldn't want to ever got shot with one. And I challenge all those Naysayers to go stand out at around 15 feet (a good home defense range) and let me shoot you with 10 rounds of CCI Stinger from my Walther P22 and see how "NON-LETHAL" it is. After all, it's just a "plinker" and a toy gun for shooting mice. Just a "Mice or Snake Round"

Eh uh. NOT. </div></div>

You know whats interesting is that we used a .22LR for our cows and they have one big thick skull head. The .22 worked better than my friend who also lives on a farm tried to use his dads .45 and it took twelve rounds to get the cow down. Truth is the .45 passes through so fast it will not do the damage of a .22 when passing through bone. My father in law shot his first deer with a .22, heart shot and the thing fell dead 50 yards away.
I doubt that the knock down would be as nice as a .40 for a carry gun but not a bad backup.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailronin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know that this has been up for a while but, great work. I'm going to get a 22lr after getting over the sticker shock of .308 ammo this week.
Looking at either Savage, Sako Finnfire or Anschutz but having a hard time deciding. Understand Anschutz is the best but really expensive, Finnfire is beautiful and expensive and Savage will be a good shooter but may need tuning...
Decisions, decisions.... </div></div>
Have you looked at CZ? My friend can shoot the primers out of a shotgun round at 75 yards with his factory untuned CZ .22 LR

 

[hatidua]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sailronin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Finnfire is beautiful and expensive</div></div>

How 'bout a Sako Quad? fairly cheap (just over $400 at Whittakers), very accurate, fantastic trigger, etc.

 

[sailronin]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Thanks for the suggestions, I've put a bid in on a Kimber 82 Varmint that is pretty much unused. Will let you know if it goes through and how she stacks up.

 

[_Shay_]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Wow, so now I can kill a turkey wearing a winter jacket at 300 yards?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shay_Ellafrits</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, so now I can kill a turkey wearing a winter jacket at 300 yards? </div></div>

So you brought this up to make a dumbass remark? I think this thread is a great demonstration of the terminal ballistics that many think are lacking in the 22lr.

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

i do mouloge for area emt's and asked one of the older ones about the effect of a 22lr on the human body. he told me that if he were to ever get shot he hoped it would not be a 22lr. se stated that that round small as it is can do more damage to a persons insides the just abt any other handgun or rifle round with few exceptions. if you don't die when shot chances you will within 24-36 hours later if hit is in torso. small going in and most of the time it stays in, were it goes is any bodies guess until the er gets them.

 

[mercdeking]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

My dad, was shot twice with a 22, both times with the same gun and both were accidents (I'll even say it, he was a dork). He has an old .22 revolver with an extended barrel, easily 8 inches or longer. He dropped it the first time while handling it and it shot a round into his his left side leaving a nice farrow there. I believe it came out. The second time it fell from the top of a drawer and went off again this time into the same area of the body but a a slightly different angle. Believe the 2nd one left some bits of lead since it was a hollow point. Both were some good 'meat' shots since I can see the scars and the scars from sowing and removing the pieces as much as possible. Funny thing is that my dad learned to be more careful after the 1st incident but he was planning to shoot some feral cats (eating the chickens) on the farm when the 2nd incident happened. I was actually not 'born' when either accident occurred but I saw the wounds and asked him about them. And from looking at them and the fact that there is still some lead in there after 20+ years shows me that anything can be deadly.

 

[oneshot86]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

got himself TWICE, with the same HEATER...

no fucking way...

post his name and picture for us all to avoid...

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wpdrebel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i recently worked a suicide where a man shot himself with a .22 he put the barrel in his mouth and fired. i was suprised with the platter it caused. there was no exit but the bullet was just under the top of the mans skull, just above the forehead. </div></div>

I also have worked a suicide where a guy placed a .357 under his chin. There was a glass lamp to his right about three feet that had exploded from the bone fragments. I only wish people could always use a .22 and be more kind to those who come to pick up.
Most of the drywall had to be replaced along with the bed he splattered himself on.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

This guy who worked with me told me about his grandfather was out hunting with his uncle when his uncle heard a shot. He ran over only to find his dad had tried pulling his .22 revolver out of the holster and it fired a round right into his leg right up against the main artery. The doctors couldn't remove it so there it sits to this day. The guy I worked with said you can feel the little 40 grain bullet under his skin.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

My Uncle was shot with a .22 in a prewar (pre-WWII) range incident. A trainee turned around, said he couldn't work the safety, and the rifle discharged, shooting my Uncle at pointblank range. The bullet passed through his chest and lodged near the skin below his shoulder blade. I'm guessing it was a roundnose round. He lay in a coma for several days, then one morning the nurse was changing his bandaging and the bullet broke through the skin and fell onto the bed. He woke up later the same day. He recovered completely, and went on to fly a full set of missions as a B-17 command pilot.

Greg

 

[dagwood]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

A good friend of mine was an ER nurse at the Acadiana Regional Medical Center in New Iberia,LA .
She had a patient that was shot in the right shoulder and the exit wound was the guys left ass cheek. The bullet bounced around like a pin ball. She had said that almost every major organ had some type of damage.
She always had told me she would rather see large caliber GSW's
than .22. She knew guns rather well, her husband owned a gun shop in New Iberia, and they both shot together very often.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

As I've said before, my dad made 4 landings in the Pacific in WWII, first wave in 3. Just saying this to let you know he'd seen a few gun shot wounds in his life. He always told me the 22lr was the most dangerous round on the planet because very few realized its capabilities.

okie

 

[awaken]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I've said before, my dad made 4 landings in the Pacific in WWII, first wave in 3. Just saying this to let you know he'd seen a few gun shot wounds in his life. He always told me the 22lr was the most dangerous round on the planet because very few realized its capabilities.

okie</div></div>

I've never heard your story about your Dad Okie... I'd like to hear about that one day!

 

[flyboy]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

To the few guys I've met or been friends with that laughed at the prospect of a 22lr being lethal, I always told them to stand out there at 100yds and hold a target for me. I mean whats the worst that could happen right. Never realy had any takers on that offer.

 

[Tex1970]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Friend of mine had one of those no trigger guard 22 derringers, while taking it out of his pocket accidentally discharged a round, went into his chest cavity bouncing around like a ball. It messed up a lot of organs, he lived but they opened him up like a fish to fix everything, he has a new found respect for 22 caliber pistols.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Awaken</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've never heard your story about your Dad Okie... I'd like to hear about that one day! </div></div>

May do that some day Awaken. Might take my memory a while to kick in, been nearly 30yrs he's been gone and those late night sessions listening to stories as a boy are getting further and further away.

okie

 

[Cartman]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I worked with a guy who was robbed at gunpoint and while laying chest down on the ground he was shot point blank in the back with a .22lr. Round passed straight through and came out his chest. No real damage. May go to show that nothing is certain and a lot can change depending on exactly where the round goes and what, exactly, it touches, and does not touch, and at what angle. Few sure things in life, and gunshots seem to be no different.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

so that shows its non lethal aspect dont it MDK?

 

[hankpac]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Another anecdotal story, which by the way means: it happened this way this time, but that doesn't mean it will happen that way again. which is what most of these stories are. Anecdotal, that is.
I was training as an EMT at Washoe Medical ER in Reno (now Renown), back in the early 70's. A young nurse hung up the phone, sort of chuckling and said "another prank call, said someone was in the lobby who had shot himself."
The phone rang again immediately, and after listening this time she hung up the phone looking a little more serious. "Maybe I better go up, and check this out." she says, and tells me to bring a wheel chair (!).
We trot up to the next floor which was the actual lobby to the hospital, and sure enough, there is a young guy skinny, sort of sad looking, sitting on a chair, with a small trickle of blood coming from his right ear. I tell him to sit in the wheel chair, and he does so under his own power, and we scoot for the ER.
On the way, he tells me his girl left him, and he hates his life, and that he took his 22 and shot himself in the ear. He then says he woke up a few minutes later, and was still alive, so he shot himself again, both times with a Ruger Bearcat .22. In the same ear. Then drove himself to the hospital, and walked in. And waited 15 minutes for us to come pick him up.
Cross table X rays done in ER showed a solid bullet against he opposite carotid artery, in his neck, and a split bullet , with one half against the spinal cord in his neck, about C3, and one against the carotid on the same side. By now, his neck and the side of his face was swelling, and he was a bit drowsy, so they took him to surgery, and that was the last I saw of him. Never learned the outcome.

 

[BePrepared]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

i LOVE my ruger 10/22

 

[AQC440]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Great post.....Thanks for sharing

 

[Mazin]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Just Joined today and this was the first write-up I have read and WOW never knew a little 22lr could do that. Thanks for the study and GREAT JOB!!!

 

[hrt4me]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Nice write-up, DF.

 

[SPDGG]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Great reminder for all.
Below is not me, but a point ....

".22lr pistol":
Distance: Approx. 15-20ft.

Round entered tricep, exited tricep. Entered into chest, punctured lung. Bounced off rib/bone bullet exited. One bullet, four holes.
Dr., "Lucky it came out the way it did. Could have been A Lot worse with where it was at" Luckily for the victim the hospital was a few blocks away. Victim lived.

IMHO: Anything with powder behind it I respect. Commonsense/Respect & Fear will keep you sharp/aware = ALIVE.

"To each his own"

Stay safe,
FTK

 

[okiefired]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hankpac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another anecdotal story, which by the way means: it happened this way this time, but that doesn't mean it will happen that way again. which is what most of these stories are. Anecdotal, that is.
I was training as an EMT at Washoe Medical ER in Reno (now Renown), back in the early 70's. A young nurse hung up the phone, sort of chuckling and said "another prank call, said someone was in the lobby who had shot himself."
The phone rang again immediately, and after listening this time she hung up the phone looking a little more serious. "Maybe I better go up, and check this out." she says, and tells me to bring a wheel chair (!).
We trot up to the next floor which was the actual lobby to the hospital, and sure enough, there is a young guy skinny, sort of sad looking, sitting on a chair, with a small trickle of blood coming from his right ear. I tell him to sit in the wheel chair, and he does so under his own power, and we scoot for the ER.
On the way, he tells me his girl left him, and he hates his life, and that he took his 22 and shot himself in the ear. He then says he woke up a few minutes later, and was still alive, so he shot himself again, both times with a Ruger Bearcat .22. In the same ear. Then drove himself to the hospital, and walked in. And waited 15 minutes for us to come pick him up.
Cross table X rays done in ER showed a solid bullet against he opposite carotid artery, in his neck, and a split bullet , with one half against the spinal cord in his neck, about C3, and one against the carotid on the same side. By now, his neck and the side of his face was swelling, and he was a bit drowsy, so they took him to surgery, and that was the last I saw of him. Never learned the outcome. </div></div>


Thats amazing.

okie

 

[MOOSEKNUCKLE]

Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I shoot more 22lr than anything and I am more "careless" around this caliber than I would be with something larger. Thanks for the post it kinda woke me up a little. I have (2) S&W 22As (1)S&W 22S (1) S&W 422 a GSG 5 a Remington 597. I go through a shit load of Wal Mart Federal bulk packs.