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Fieldcraft Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

#201
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I just read about this. It was used by OSS and CIA. The really impressive thing about it is noise reduction is near 90%, said to be the best surpressor of its time. Unrecognizable at 30 yrds!

okie
 
#202
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I'll add my yarn to the heap...
Ten+/- years ago I found it necessary to dispatch a rather large woodchuck that had taken up residents in my backyard under pile of tree and brush trimmings that I had stacked, and neglected to dispose of. My weapon of choice, was my Marlin bolt action .22Mag that I had named "squirrel switch" for its exceptional ability to flip squirrels to the "Off Position" with ease on countless occations over the years since I had purchased it from the used rack at my favorite local Bang stick haunt. With Harris bi-pod and 3x-9x el-cheapo scope afixed in their perscibed positons I settled into mine at 80yds from the front-door hole of my uninvited guest, and determined that I would stake him out on this textbook August afternoon come hell or high sunburn. To my delite that furry fucker made his apperance with in fifteen minutes of my own. Seconds streatched as I took up aim and waited for his full exposure, and with a gentle squeeze I loosed the sibilant shot to its destination smacking upon arrival. I gleamed with satisfaction as I strode to find the remains of my quarrie. Upon inspection I found that my missle had impacted with such force as to dislodge both of the fiends eyeballs from thier homes when the slug struck directly between them, additionally the top of the critters head as well as all down his neck was covered with tiny dropplets of blood, one coming from each single hair folical from the top of it brow to the base of its shoulders. It was the vision of some macabre Lite-Brite under the afternoon sun as I slung my Squirrel-switch and headed to recover the shovel I would use to bury him in his own hole. My respect for this trusty rifle as well as the big brothers it slept beside in the vault increased in a manner not matched until my trip to A-land and the Big-Boy hunts and the mangled trophys I harvested there.
 
#204
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

so I'm looking to buy a .22 rifle for longer target practice, hoping to practice 200-300 yard shots. I am not worried about killing anything at those distances, only target practice.

so whats a better gun the ruger 10/22 or a Savage Mark II BTVS in 22 LR?

its my understanding that a bolt action is more accurate, but is the savage that much better than the ruger 10/22 for the money,
I like the idea of being able to hit a target at 300 yards with a .22

then i guess the next question will be whats the best scope for 300 yard shots on these guns, assume the scope can cost as much or more than the rifle
 
#205
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Some of the stories told here remind me of two individuals I grew up with. They were out shooting .22's one day when one put an old British Pith helmet on and asked the other to shoot him in the head with the .22. The other person said, "Stupid, take off your helmet and set it down on the ground by that tree". Stupid did it and the other person put a .22 through both sides of the helmet and into the tree. Stupid went on to race superbikes. Stupid also put a 9mm through my right trapezius a year or two earlier. First and LAST time I went "plinking" with him.

Darin
 
#206
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

When I was a very young kid (I figure at around 7) I spent alot of time with an uncle of mine in Northern Maine. He was a gunnery officer in the Navy and served throughout WW2 manning the AA guns on a fuel ship, serious business, serious guy.

Every year around fall he would call me from pushing Corgi cars around the floor infront of the wood stove to see the figure of a man crossing his back fields towards the house. We would stand there and watch as the distant figure made his way to the back door. My Uncle would welcome him in and the two of them would sit in the kitchen and have a talk about the upcoming hunting season. I would stay and listen and, as was the custom when Pepper Tom came, say nothing. Pepper Tom was a local Penawahpskewi indian that would stop by to borrow my uncles' .22 every fall to go deer hunting.

The ritual that followed was always the same, Pepper Tom presented my uncle with a can of coffee, coffee would be made, Pepper Tom smoking a pipe, my uncle getting his .22 rifle and presenting the rifle with a box of 22 LR. Pepper Tom would take the rifle and one (1) round, my uncle would encourage him to take as many as he needed. He would leave with one round. And, without fail, as the figure made his way back accross the field, rifle in hand, I would ask why he only took one round and my uncle would say "Pepper Tom is an Eye Shooter, yes he is." "Why does he need to borrow your rifle?" I would ask, already knowing the answer but not fully understanding the response. "Thats his rifle, I keep just keep it safe for him."

I didn't think to ask him if one needed more than a .22 if one was able to be an "eye shooter."
 
#207
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

AZEZZO- Perhaps you might consider .17HMR, As far as what to buy, Buy the best you can afford and enjoy what you buy. I have found that even lower priced guns and glass are more capable of being acurate than I am. That being said you'll soon forget the price, but never forget the quaity.
 
#210
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was a very young kid (I figure at around 7) I spent alot of time with an uncle of mine in Northern Maine. He was a gunnery officer in the Navy and served throughout WW2 manning the AA guns on a fuel ship, serious business, serious guy.

Every year around fall he would call me from pushing Corgi cars around the floor infront of the wood stove to see the figure of a man crossing his back fields towards the house. We would stand there and watch as the distant figure made his way to the back door. My Uncle would welcome him in and the two of them would sit in the kitchen and have a talk about the upcoming hunting season. I would stay and listen and, as was the custom when Pepper Tom came, say nothing. Pepper Tom was a local Penawahpskewi indian that would stop by to borrow my uncles' .22 every fall to go deer hunting.

The ritual that followed was always the same, Pepper Tom presented my uncle with a can of coffee, coffee would be made, Pepper Tom smoking a pipe, my uncle getting his .22 rifle and presenting the rifle with a box of 22 LR. Pepper Tom would take the rifle and one (1) round, my uncle would encourage him to take as many as he needed. He would leave with one round. And, without fail, as the figure made his way back accross the field, rifle in hand, I would ask why he only took one round and my uncle would say "Pepper Tom is an Eye Shooter, yes he is." "Why does he need to borrow your rifle?" I would ask, already knowing the answer but not fully understanding the response. "Thats his rifle, I keep just keep it safe for him."

I didn't think to ask him if one needed more than a .22 if one was able to be an "eye shooter." </div></div>

Cool story.

Keith
 
#211
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was a very young kid (I figure at around 7) I spent alot of time with an uncle of mine in Northern Maine. He was a gunnery officer in the Navy and served throughout WW2 manning the AA guns on a fuel ship, serious business, serious guy.

Every year around fall he would call me from pushing Corgi cars around the floor infront of the wood stove to see the figure of a man crossing his back fields towards the house. We would stand there and watch as the distant figure made his way to the back door. My Uncle would welcome him in and the two of them would sit in the kitchen and have a talk about the upcoming hunting season. I would stay and listen and, as was the custom when Pepper Tom came, say nothing. Pepper Tom was a local Penawahpskewi indian that would stop by to borrow my uncles' .22 every fall to go deer hunting.

The ritual that followed was always the same, Pepper Tom presented my uncle with a can of coffee, coffee would be made, Pepper Tom smoking a pipe, my uncle getting his .22 rifle and presenting the rifle with a box of 22 LR. Pepper Tom would take the rifle and one (1) round, my uncle would encourage him to take as many as he needed. He would leave with one round. And, without fail, as the figure made his way back accross the field, rifle in hand, I would ask why he only took one round and my uncle would say "Pepper Tom is an Eye Shooter, yes he is." "Why does he need to borrow your rifle?" I would ask, already knowing the answer but not fully understanding the response. "Thats his rifle, I keep just keep it safe for him."

I didn't think to ask him if one needed more than a .22 if one was able to be an "eye shooter." </div></div>

I'm assuming Pepper Tom always had venison, year after year?
Great story.
 
#212
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

This thread is what brought me to Sniper's Hide, awesome write up on a much maligned calibre.
I run a Browning .22LR lever action with a Olivon 2-7x32AO scope and firing CCI Stingers, lethal little bastard it is.
I've brought down foxes, rabbits, kangaroos, goats and sheep with it, ranges usually 50-150 metres.
Great research DF.
 
#215
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Thanks for such a great thread. I am a new member here after reading this thread. It was a real eye opener. I have a WW2 era S&W .38 special model 10. I also have an old Remington Fieldmaster 121 .22lr pump.... That .22 is a real nail driver. The tube holds 14 long rifle rounds and all I can say is I personally would not want to be on the business end of that rifle.
Again... great thread... great info.
 
#217
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

There is a guy over here that shot himself in the gut with a Walther P22 on accident not too long ago. I guess they are calling it an accident, as I would call it stupidity. Another reason I believe in condition 3, especially when you have little ones in the house. He luckily lived, but the round bounced around a lot and caused a lot of internal damage to intestine. The hospital also commented that a larger caliber round would have been better. They left the round in his abdomen.
 
#218
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I think that many of the "men" who put down the .22 fail to consider one other thing ... home defense and "the little woman." I'm working to get my wife to learn to shoot, just so she knows how, "just in case ..." She does NOT like the noise of my 9 or the shotgun and won't even touch them, but I have now convinced her to try the .22 which I think she will find OK. Once passed that, I think I can get her into the bigger stuff, but at least she will know about "shot placement", aiming and be able to pull the trigger without closing her eyes ... just in case!
 
#220
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

That really was a fantastic test and write up , Nice work! Gathering info from stories was an interesting start but taking the time to do a real field test is as real world as it gets.
Thanks to both of you.
 
#221
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I really enjoyed this post. Three isn't very much out there on long range 22's. I new that the 22 was capable of 150+ yd shots, but I had no idea that it could be as effective at such great distances. This has been a very educational reading. In the morning my buddy and I are heading to the range to put this to the test. We've got 5mph winds in the forecast so it should be a little easier for us. Thanks again for the info, and for the challenge you have presented to us.
Dave
 
#222
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

this just puts to paper...err...words, what i have always said about the venerable 22. I love this round and its big brother the 22wmr. those small rimfires are really a devastating round if applied propperly. i think i may have to print this thread out and show some of the naysayers what the "plinker/squirrel" round can do.
 
#224
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Great write-up! I was very impressed with the results of your study. At that range, I would have thought of nothing other than paper punching, but this sheds new light on the .22. It also shows the ignorance of the people who shoot .22s with no consideration to whatever my lie further beyond their 25-50 yard target reasoning that "its just a .22, how far can it go?"
 
#227
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

my favorite part about the 22LR is knowing what it can do point blank, the 22WMR can do at 100 yards.

NASTY little bullets the rimfire 22's are. I'd be willing to guess that wartime aside, more people die from 22 rimfire than any other caliber. WICKED nasty little bastards. I love my 22's. My SHTF gun is a mid 80's 10/22 carbine that used to be my grandfathers. it's accurate enough with a 5MOA red dot and i have little doubt it will kill any and everything I hit with it.
 
#230
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

In 1991 I went to a suicide wherea guy in a lawnchair, next to his woodpile, used a 44 mag with a 4" bbl to remove his head.

I can still visualize it to this day, was pretty gross - not sure I could do too man y of those these days, that was almost 20 years ago but I still can see it and the way his hand was sitting there in his lap, casually with the 44 mag...face folded forward, rear faced backward and nothing from the neck up.


Good data on the 22


Now does it matter what kind of rifle? Would you get more pressure and velocity from a bolt than a semi-auto?
 
#231
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

great test, good write up. CHALLENGING shooting at those winds with a .22.

back in the day I'd go rabbit hunting with my brother, every once in a while we'd catch a coyote hightailing it out of a valley.

We would just throw a hail mary volley of artillery fire at them, and twice killed coyotes at 400-500 yards with the .22s

they will work at surprising distances if you hit the right places.
 
#232
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Great write up and pics / information
Thanks never knew this was so potent at these distances!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertFrog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The wrapped around turkey looked like this:

research5.jpg


My son was with me and it took use considerable time to find the right location. Safety was definitely an issue but also, in order to have any chance to hit the target with winds that strong we had to shoot within the wind. Even then, because of the constant shifting of the wind from 7 to 5 O’clock, I had doubts we could even pull it off. So instead of 300 yards, we actually started at 250 yards which allowed me to use my elevation knob zeroed at 200 yards and my mildots reticle and thus “less guessing”.

As you can see the package is quite small at 250 yards!!!!!! The wrapped Turkey was a bit bigger then a human head, it wasn’t a big turkey to start with – I actually bought the cheapest one ($12)

research6.jpg



We positioned ourselves on top of the Jeep. My son used my 308 and the Leupold 6.5-20X to spot me (if we could do so) and I shot the 22LR.

research7.jpg


Equipment was as follow:

Savage Mark II BTVS in 22 LR
Bushnell 3200 Tactical Scope – 10X Mildots
Ammunition was Wolf Match Target – 40 Gr Bullet – 1050 fps

Note that shooting in that position was not the most stable and 25-30 MPH wind actually WILL shake you around. I calculated the wind cycle to range from around 18 to 30 MPH. It was a quick wind cycle with periods of 18 MPH lasting only a 4-5 seconds at best. I decided to shoot at the lowest point of the wind cycle and simply use 0 windage as I was shooting in the wind.

My first round went slightly to the left missing the target by a couple of inches, my second round did the same on the right side and my third one actually hit the small turkey dead center. I was actually amazed!!!!!!
I was ready to shoot 50 rounds in those windy conditions to have some “Hope” to hit the target because, from what I was told, the 22LR is so unstable in the wind at long distance. Yet despite the atrocious conditions – using elementary ballistic information and field craft, shooting it in 18 to 30 MPH was factually quite easy. From a tactical viewpoint, every single shot would have hit a center mass target.

Inspecting the 250 yards target was quite revealing…the bullet had gone through the 3 layers as if it was nothing.

Encouraged by the results and the fact that we could hit the target, we placed the turkey at 300 yards. I spotted for my son and he took the shots. Again we were amazed that despite the wind we had 4 hits out of 10 rounds!!! If someone had told me he can shoot such a small target in those conditions, before we did so ourselves, I would have laughed!

Here was the result:

research8.jpg


Note that the 300 yards round in the center seemed to have keyhole. The probability is that the bullet hit some of the sage brush that was moving around wildly in the wind because no other impacts showed signs of keyholing and we were somewhat shooting through the moving brushes.

Now the huge surprise was the following. After taking the shot at 250 yards I was quite happy to see that the bullet had penetrated the 3 layers of clothing but I would have never thought of actually checking the BACK OF THE TARGET.

After shooting the 300 yards and taking back the target to the Jeep, we realized that one round had gone through the whole turkey, the clothing layers in the front AND the layers in the back as well!!!!!!!!!! And this had to occur between 250 yards and 300 yards. This was MUCH MORE than I ever had anticipated for the standard velocity 22LR round!!!!!!!!!!

Not only that but because the clothing was wrapped around and folded/taped in the back, it was the equivalent of shooting through 3 layers of clothing in the front and 6 LAYERS of clothing in the back plus on layer of duct tape!

research9.jpg

</div></div>
 
#234
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertFrog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but i would consider "lethality" to mean "fight stopping" </div></div>

I use the dictionary definition of "Lethality"

Which is: <span style="font-weight: bold">Capable of causing death.</span>

Not the same as: "Stopping Power" or "Fight Stopping"

It is quite obvious that a 22LR does not have a lot of "stopping power" and it wasn't the intent of "experiment". It was related to how lethal the 22LR can be at long distance.

</div></div>

I think what is actually being discussed here is what I like to call "Deadererer" which one (.22lr, 9mm, .45acp) makes an apponent "Deaderer"? Lol

The answer is still found in the person that can shoot the straightest and quickest.
 
#235
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Desert Frog, this is a great write up. I shoot frequently at 200 yds with my 22lr. I personally know that the 22lr can be quite lethal. The other day at the range I had put up a fresh target frame made out of 1X4 pine woods at 200 yds and a paper plate. Needless to say with my superior skills of shooting I missed the plate but could see 6 of the 10 shots I fired were high and had penetrated the 1x4 pine board. I always knew even the 22lr could be lethal and fatal but never new it could be at that distance.
 
#236
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I love shooting my M4 16" carbine with the AAC suppressor. I use Remington Sub-sonic and a Aimpoint red dot. I love taking groundhogs with this rig I've killed them dead clean out to 85+ yards. Funny my trigger was getting worn so if I didn't holf the gun tight I would feather the trigger getting a 2 round tap out. DEVISTATING on the hog! Barely a tail twitch!
 
#237
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M25BeastShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love shooting my M4 16" carbine with the AAC suppressor. I use Remington Sub-sonic and a Aimpoint red dot. I love taking groundhogs with this rig I've killed them dead clean out to 85+ yards. Funny my trigger was getting worn so if I didn't holf the gun tight I would feather the trigger getting a 2 round tap out. DEVISTATING on the hog! Barely a tail twitch! </div></div>
looks like we have a guy tryng to "UP" his posts
 
#239
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

When I was younger we (my parents and siblings) lived in utah where there are about a million prarie dogs per square inch of land. We used to shoot them out to about 200 yards with 22LRs. I have a Savage MkII and sometimes it took a couple shots to hit one sometimes but it eventually became fairly consistant. It was way more fun than with higher power weapons. a 22 is definitely a mean little fucker.
 
#241
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpyStyle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have the pics disappeared or is my browser messing up? </div></div>
nope not a problem with your computer, all i see is a bunch of red Xs and no pictures. dude man needs to re-host his pics somewhere like imageshack.com
 
#242
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

All of this is very usefull info, you just have to seperate the stupid from the common sense. I really would like to know some history/recorded fact! Is this True? Sirhan Sirhan shot Robert Kennedy with a 22? John Hinckley Jr. shot Ronald Reagan with a 22? I am looking for a list of 22 cal. assasinations and/or famous shootings.

Thanks for any Info you can give.
 
#244
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

I don't mean to offend anyone. I have tried google without much success, thats why i'm asking here. I am not attempting to advocate or glorify gore and violence, i am just seeking historical facts rather than storytelling.
 
#245
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former0302</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember reading how Chris McCandless dropped a moose with a Remington Nylon 66, .22LR in John Krakauer's recounting of his Alaskan misadventure in Into the Wild. When the story was first published as a magazine article, peopled cried BS becuase they couldn't believe a .22LR would drop a moose.

A .22LR clearly isn't an ethical big game caliber...but another example of how it can deal out some death.

Great thread, mostly becuase it proves how important it is to respect any weapon. Complacency kills.

FYI...as is usually the case...the book Into the Wild is FAR BETTER than the movie. </div></div>

...I'll have to read that book because the movie was great...
 
#248
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

My grandpa always used the old Remington .22 pump on hog kill'n day and my cousin killed a large doe with a .22 Short to the neck. I have always respected a .22 (though I saw a guy shot in the noggin with a .25 once and he just got a headache
laugh.gif
).

But those were head or neck shots. And now learning anatomy for an EMS degree I can understand how a .22LR can totally ruin your day with a torso hit, too. There are so many major arteries and veins that can be hit in the torso with only half decent penetration that will bleed you out quick.
 
#250
Re: Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Great thread. I'm in the process of buying a scope for my .22 and I wasn't sure how it performed at a distance. Thanks for all the great information!
 
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