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Let's discuss 350 Legend
- Thread starter steve123
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the 375 no the 45/70 yes a company is making an ar-10 in it so. my comment was using a cartridge case mouth to headspace with especially in a semi-auto and the chances of a catastrophic over pressure that could occur with this cartridge case. you guys up north need to get your who ever to fix your hunting laws. sounds like they are trying to limit you to straight walled pistol cases.
AR15, if you please. And I’m so far north that I’m south, central Florida to be exact. And they aren’t trying to restrict them to straight wall pistol cartridges, they have been, for many, many years. It was that way in Michigan in the mid-nineties when I hunted with my brother there. Probably before then.
You should write Winchester about your concerns. I’m not losing sleep over them.
By the way, claim is that it is softer recoiling in an AR15 than a .223, though I’d have to feel both next to each other to believe that. How’s your .45-70 recoil, even in an AR10? I know how it recoils in a Marlin.
You should write Winchester about your concerns. I’m not losing sleep over them.
By the way, claim is that it is softer recoiling in an AR15 than a .223, though I’d have to feel both next to each other to believe that. How’s your .45-70 recoil, even in an AR10? I know how it recoils in a Marlin.
jeees guy your the one that called the 375 win a bottle neck cartridge not me. your problem is your problem in michigan. i dont like the design of the case, or are we not allowed to do that on here for fear of hurting someones feelings??? the other cartridges i mentioned were for comparison and ones i have experience with.
""By the way, claim is that it is softer recoiling in an AR15 than a .223""
At the beginning when I shot the factory Win 145gr load, which didn't function in my upper, I thought maybe so, but not now after having about 140 rounds of 180's through it.
Also I pulled the bullets out of the rest of the box of that 145gr factory ammo and loaded 25grs of lilgun, reseated them, and it created some authoritative recoil, much more than 223.
IMO, this cartridge has more recoil than a 223 by quite a bit. Maybe if the right burn rate powders were used and 350L was loaded way down with 115's??? Like someone mentioned earlier, it'd probably take a carbine length gas system to get it to work.
Punishing 350L isn't, but it can be loaded up much more than I had anticipated going in, like I mentioned previously in this thread. Deceptively powerful might be a way to describe it?!
At the beginning when I shot the factory Win 145gr load, which didn't function in my upper, I thought maybe so, but not now after having about 140 rounds of 180's through it.
Also I pulled the bullets out of the rest of the box of that 145gr factory ammo and loaded 25grs of lilgun, reseated them, and it created some authoritative recoil, much more than 223.
IMO, this cartridge has more recoil than a 223 by quite a bit. Maybe if the right burn rate powders were used and 350L was loaded way down with 115's??? Like someone mentioned earlier, it'd probably take a carbine length gas system to get it to work.
Punishing 350L isn't, but it can be loaded up much more than I had anticipated going in, like I mentioned previously in this thread. Deceptively powerful might be a way to describe it?!
On a different note, my 16" Ruger American...
Is responding well to Hornady's 165 FTX.
Two groups of three. 1.1"ctc & .36"ctc @ 90 yards... as I didn't feel like laying in the slush at 100.
Is responding well to Hornady's 165 FTX.
Two groups of three. 1.1"ctc & .36"ctc @ 90 yards... as I didn't feel like laying in the slush at 100.
No he didn't. You're the only one who brought up the 375 Win and the 38/55, neither of which have anything to do with the AR15, this thread, or even this section of the forum. And yeah, we're all aware that the Legend headspaces on the case mouth. Your feelings about it in comparison to lever action cartridges have nothing much to do with anything. Let it go.
Who claimed that? It definitely is not. It's not hard to shoot, but it's not in the "almost zero recoil" category of a 223.
Okay, I am going to have to claim stupidity and bad memory in this one. It’s been over a year since I read the original claims and I got this one wrong. Good catch. Here’s what it really said:
errrr..... "You're on the right thwack!"............ lol, corny? yes, but hey what the heck.
FWIW, Wilson Combat sells a 15rd mag ( Modified Lancer 330BK ) and the 2 reviews say it will hold 18rds... YMMV. Reasonably priced @ 25 bucks.
https://shopwilsoncombat.com/AR-Sty...und-Polymer/productinfo/TR-350LMAG15/#reviews
And as for the use of a .355 bullet v. a .357 bullet ... I thought ... this article tells some info better then I can write it.
And it mentions some Winc. White Box ammo that had .349- .353 sized bullets.
Now I have to just figure out if I want a .350 Legend.. or a 300 HAM'R
( I need to win the lottery, and buy some of everything )
Most of the 350 Legend claims are total BS . The 350 Legend doesn't come close to matching a 30-30. Not sure what kind of .243 they are comparing the penetration to since a .243 will go thru a deer over 300 yds away. As for a 300 Blackout it may be better but I've put down a lot of deer with my 16" and 10.5" Blackouts and I've yet to need a second shot or track more that 100 feet. Most have dropped in their tracks and several have been around 200 yd shots.
If I were to need a straight wall cartridge I would go for the 450 Bushmaster and not an anemic cartridge like the 350 Legend.
If I were to need a straight wall cartridge I would go for the 450 Bushmaster and not an anemic cartridge like the 350 Legend.
Buy a 6.5 Grendel.
It is capable of 500+ yds and a big choice of bullets. If you want to varmint hunt you can use 90 gr bullets. As for hogs and deer I find the 130 gr bullets work very good. On the plus side, you can make tons of brass from 7.62x39 that are laying around at any of your local ranges. Just remember to load about 1 gr less than maximum if you reload.
Calm down Karen, the 350 Legend was designed for a very specific purpose...
Yeah, after reading this I come to the conclusion that if you're hunting deer in that 0-300m range and have cartridge limitations, then yeah, this is the way to go.
Otherwise, .330BLK is still the best all around SBR round for the AR. 5.56 is still the best all around, period, and 6.5G is still the optimized round for the AR, it still carries the KE downrange fast enough to hit hard at multiple ranges. I've "thwacked" steel with it, hanging from logging chains, and fast enough to keep it rotating back and forth indefinitely... You can do much better short of hitting it twice and twisting it up.
If 5.56 is fucking up your steel, you need different steel. At SDM school we used what I think were 3/4" AR500 plate (it's possible we had some special face hardened armor but I doubt it) in E, F and pepper popper styles. No 5.56 or 7.62 ever did more than leave a mark. Now Raufoss, someone hit one of our plates and it looked like a cutting torch burned a hole through it. I bet 1/2" or even 3/8" would be sufficient for most AR work. That thinner shit isn't cut out for it. Plate targets should be a lifetime investment unless you're shooting 'em with BMG's (which generally have steel cores or are solids to begin with, even if not AP). Talk about thwacking steel though. Nothing like setting up suppressed at 1k with an HTI while guys are shooting steel close in and just blasting the fuck out of it in sync with their fire... They look at their rifle, then back at the target, then the look around do see if anyone is behind 'em etc., then shake their head. Rinse and repeat for even more fun.
I'm not into adopting new cartridges, it's a real pain and I go for the best ones optimized for the platform. It's expensive for me, I load everything so cost of the firearm is only half the total cost to adopt a new rifle in a new cartridge. It's why I'm still no on the 6.5CM bandwagon (but it looks like I'm gonna pass that one right by in lieu of the 6.5PRC, not sure yet). I'm a late adopter, only reason I have Beowulf is I did Bill A. a favor at SDM school and tested his weapon and demo'd it before the war college (my guys didn't adopt it but CG did). That'a HARD hitting round but it's limited to 100-150m. If you're in that range though, you're gonna have a bad fucking day. People drastically underestimate Beowulf. SHITTY BC. But up close? Doesn't matter. It has moment and a fair share of velocity. It penetrates 3A armor like it isn't there and shatters blocks and railroad ties after penetrating the armor and retains a a good amount of weight on the exit --albeit fuzed with kevlar and bone. It's NASTY.
But gotta admit, still prefer .300BLK for most stuff. Most versatile round for AR, hands down. Does it all, doesn't bitch about barrel length (within reason) or sacrifice much in velocity or reliability.
Not a fan of 6.8 (come one 6.5 is better!) but I think the brass case has potential, just with what I don't know. Perhaps a .243? 6mm? Sure some of this has been done but just kicking around ideas.
Color me wrong, but I still think 6.5G is the ideal and most optimized cartridge for AR. Based on the numbers, it can't be beat in a full size or carbine configuration. I have lot of reasons why, good ones, just don't wanna go into it all here.
For straight thwacking though , Beowulf has the most momentum of all the big rounds but the .458 SOCOM is the one you wanna adopt. Sometimes Beoful beats it out but usually .458 SOCOM is the harder hitting of the two, primarily due to slightly lighter bullets and what not. If I only had one it'd be that one. But Beowulf was free and operation capacity is similar enough --not to mention at the close ranges I'd be prone to use it, the range isn't really a concern.
I agree 100%
My problem with the 50 Beowolf is it destroys whatever it hits. A shoulder shot in a hog or deer and it will dang near tear them in half so I opt not to use mine.
My 300 Blackouts give me a wide choice of loads. I can shoot anything from 100 gr. half jackets to 240 gr subsonics. It's designed to be shot from a SBR so my 10.5" pistol wrings out the load very well. Doesn't take a lot of powder and will ring 300 yd plates all day long.
It’s pretty obvious that you yahoos have not bothered to even read the thread nor taken one minute to understand why this round was developed and created the way that it is. If you’d bothered to read this thread instead of jumping off the curb into traffic, you would know that there are mid-western states that restrict rifle cartridges for deer to straight walled cartridges over .30 caliber and limited in length, so zero of your ridiculous ramblings have anything to do with the purpose of this cartridge.
It was specially designed to meet the strict requirements of these crazy regulations and still work in a small frame AR platform. None of your favorite superhero cartridges meet all of the criteria and most don’t meet any.
So why don’t you leave commentary to people who actually know what they’re talking about and have a use for this application?
By the way, you know how I know that you're just fanboys and not really familiar with what you speak? The .350 Legend is essentially a .357 Maximum on steroids, which in itself is a .357 Magnum on steroids. Maybe you’ve heard of the .357 Magnum? Elmer Keith took deer in excess of 400 yards with heavy hard cast bullets and achieved great penetration and stopping power, out of a S&W revolver.
I’ve taken Michigan deer in the 200 yard range with a .357 Maximum easily, break both shoulders and lodge under the skin on the outside, with a 158 gr flat point semi wadcutter out of a 10” contender.
It was specially designed to meet the strict requirements of these crazy regulations and still work in a small frame AR platform. None of your favorite superhero cartridges meet all of the criteria and most don’t meet any.
So why don’t you leave commentary to people who actually know what they’re talking about and have a use for this application?
By the way, you know how I know that you're just fanboys and not really familiar with what you speak? The .350 Legend is essentially a .357 Maximum on steroids, which in itself is a .357 Magnum on steroids. Maybe you’ve heard of the .357 Magnum? Elmer Keith took deer in excess of 400 yards with heavy hard cast bullets and achieved great penetration and stopping power, out of a S&W revolver.
I’ve taken Michigan deer in the 200 yard range with a .357 Maximum easily, break both shoulders and lodge under the skin on the outside, with a 158 gr flat point semi wadcutter out of a 10” contender.
Yahoo's
The steel at my buds property for the most part is cut up propane tanks (the huge ones- he used to work for a propane Co) but some are AR 500. These were free, a donation, my bud likes free. Most of the steel has been there for 25 years.
A max loaded 350L is pretty damn powerful, much more than a 300BO, I know because I had one. Of course it's not as powerful as the 45's and 50's, I wasn't looking for that power level, and you can't double stack those in the small frame AR.
All these cartridges mentioned have their place.
The steel at my buds property for the most part is cut up propane tanks (the huge ones- he used to work for a propane Co) but some are AR 500. These were free, a donation, my bud likes free. Most of the steel has been there for 25 years.
A max loaded 350L is pretty damn powerful, much more than a 300BO, I know because I had one. Of course it's not as powerful as the 45's and 50's, I wasn't looking for that power level, and you can't double stack those in the small frame AR.
All these cartridges mentioned have their place.
I own several .357 Magnums and also a .357 Maximum Contender. A friend of mine made the mistake of buying a 350 Legend. I can tell you from experience that a 350 Legend IS NOT a .357 Maximum on steroids. It comes no where close. My take in this thread is to recommend to people who live where they must hunt with a straight wall cartridge to buy a 450 BM if they are shooting an AR platform.
I have had a couple 450's since michigan changed their deer regulations allowing straight walled cartridges. I'll be using a 350 from here on...
Well, I’m obviously not the expert that you self proclaim to be, so I’ll just drop this fairly unbiased article comparing the 350 Legend to the 450 Bushmaster. Not for your benefit, since you’ve already made up your mind, but for those that prefer their recommendations be unbiased and not colored with vague experiential references.
Like most cartridge choices, there are reasons why some will choose one and others will choose another and both will feel that they have the best choice for them. Others will decide that only their choice is appropriate for everybody and they’ll be wrong.
LOL ok then. Maybe if you're comparing the 145gr FMJ Winchester load, but anyone who bothered to pay attention would realize that one is significantly downloaded for practice compared to the hunting loads.
I'm trying to figure out how ignorant you'd have to be to look at a 350 L and 357 Max side by side, knowing the 350 operates at higher pressure with very similar case capacity, and still think the 350 "comes nowhere close". I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that one. The rest of your rants are equally absurd and ignorant.
"My friend had one so I know best!" LOL. Thanks for the chuckle at least. Did you not realize some of us actually own a 350 ourselves?
Hey, since this is a niche round for places like MI, I’ll have you know that “Karen’s” are now “Gretchen’s” up here
Hey, since this is a niche round for places like MI, I’ll have you know that “Karen’s” are now “Gretchen’s” up here
This is true and in common use!
what feed issues are you having, and can you give us some details:
- ammo (or bullet and OAL)
- what magazines
- a pic of your feed ramps
If everything is correct with your setup and you’re using Legend magazines, you shouldn’t have issues with factory ammo, but there are some inherent feed issues with long straight wall rounds like this that are made worse by wide meplat or bore riding bullets. Some can be mitigated with feed ramp adjustments, and others may just need an OAL adjustment.
@Yondering - I will pprovide details this evening. Headed to range now to try it & I’ll be there all day. Running Lawman5 300BO with milled front ribs. Trying today with feed lips tweaked. All factory ammo.
Splash one
165gr Hornady FTX, this lot averages 2196fps @ 72 degrees from my 16" Ruger American in a MDT chassis w/ a 1-4x vortex. This 10 point was quartering forward, I aimed for the heart shot. The bullet smashed through the shoulder blade's forward leg joint, then hit a rib bone and entered the chest cavity and clipped the artery bundle at the top of the heart. The deer spun around and trotted about 5-7 steps into the little tree he is resting against and expired. I was unable to find the bullet so I assume it was in the gut pile some where. The distance was about 40-50yards and over all I was impressed with the bullets performance after punching through a pretty heavy joint plus a rib.
While I'm sure my excitement played a round in this I was quite surprised how quiet the sound of the shot was compared to my 450's...
165gr Hornady FTX, this lot averages 2196fps @ 72 degrees from my 16" Ruger American in a MDT chassis w/ a 1-4x vortex. This 10 point was quartering forward, I aimed for the heart shot. The bullet smashed through the shoulder blade's forward leg joint, then hit a rib bone and entered the chest cavity and clipped the artery bundle at the top of the heart. The deer spun around and trotted about 5-7 steps into the little tree he is resting against and expired. I was unable to find the bullet so I assume it was in the gut pile some where. The distance was about 40-50yards and over all I was impressed with the bullets performance after punching through a pretty heavy joint plus a rib.
While I'm sure my excitement played a round in this I was quite surprised how quiet the sound of the shot was compared to my 450's...
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Nice Buck Niles! That's exactly what 350L was designed for.
I'm in Maryland & they added the straight wall cartridge this year. In this case it's actually a loosening of restrictions. We're allowed to run straight walls in the counties that were previously Shotgun only.
Running all factory ammo 4 varieties & all failed to feed. Browning 124 gr was the worst.
The feeding issues I was having is that the new round would get jammed at entry to the chamber. The sharp rim that this head spaces off is pretty close to chamber size & was catching on the back of the chamber & shaving brass (part of the problem).
When released from the feed lips in the mag it was at a pretty steep angle & the bolt just wedged it rather then allowing it to straighten itself into the chamber.
I think this is why they went with a bigger oddball base size + the smaller .355 bullet (trying to make it feed). Might be giving them to much credit on that?
Mags are Lawman5 300BO 10 rnd with the front guide ribs milled & front notch lowered a little (sim to what Wilson sells for 350L).
This morning I tweaked the feed lips on a mag to raise the rounds some and shortened the feed lips to release the back end sooner. Also kissed the back of the chamber were the chamfer meets it to break the edge.
I left the center lug intact on my extension, but did widen the ramps. I could probably round the corners on the outside notches a little more.
As shipped.
All velocities below are from 11" barrel.
Browning target 124gr round nose (9mm bullet) = 1949 fps avg this was originally the worst feeding of all. After mag mods it's still about 1 in 5 ftf
Win 145 gr FMJ target = did not crono this one, feeding issues were about 2/3, now it runs (ran 15 no ftf).
Win 180 gr power point = 2120 avg fps, FTF 2/3, now it runs (ran 20 no ftf).
Hornady 165gr FTX = 2150 avg fps, FTF 2/3, now it runs (ran 20 no ftf).
If you look close at the 124 Browning load it looks bent cause it is. It was one of the first I tried before mag mods that jammed.
I tried to put a group together @100 with the last 3 Win 180gr. Not easy with a 1x red dot. This barrel shows promise. I'll try again when I get the 3x magnifier.
Gun specs:
Anderson lower, Aero upper
X caliber 11" 16T carbine gas (.115 port) .875 gas block & 5/8 x 24
Odin works AGB
SLR blast forward comp
12" 2A rail with Titanium nut
Maximum Defense CQB brace (std buffer) with Wilson/BCM mod 3 grip
Sharps XPB bcg std weight
BCM gunfighter CH
Trigger tech competitive 3.5lb & Trigger tech ambi safety
Magpul aluminum enhanced trigger guard
Leupold Freedom RDS 1 moa dot + BDC elevation dial with zero stop
Trijicon 3x magnifier on order
FYI - for anyone looking for a blast forward comp the SLR 308 5/8 x 24 is what is on here. Through hole is .380 so alignment has to be money & it's self cleaning lol.
I like the round. It definitely has considerable more bark & recoil then 300BO. Aside from feeding quirks it should be perfect deer medicine.
@ 200 the Hornady 165 FTX still has + 100fps & + 140 lbs energy on a hot 357magnum 158 JHP @ muzzle.
Since this is a hunting round/build I'll make an exception to my rule i.e. mag mods acceptable.
I’ve killed two deer this year with the Win 150gr Deer Season loads. They worked well. But I put them in the right place so that isn’t surprising. The only bitch I have is that the bullets shed their jackets and I was picking jacket and lead fragments out of the deer when I cut them up. Next year, I’m using the Maker solid copper 150 gr loads. They shoot as well, or maybe even a bit tighter, than the Win 150s.
I just have a 1-4 Leupold on it so don’t know the potential of my barrel, but at 50 yards shots group in an inch or so.
The barrel is a KAK 12.5”, and I have a GSL GT-MAG 350 Legend can on it.
I just have a 1-4 Leupold on it so don’t know the potential of my barrel, but at 50 yards shots group in an inch or so.
The barrel is a KAK 12.5”, and I have a GSL GT-MAG 350 Legend can on it.
Nice buck!
Add a few more for what is apparently an "anemic cartridge". Also using the 165 FTX. Love my 350, and most of the guys I know using the 450 have either picked up one or are taking a hard look at one.
I am in a state that only allows straight wall rifle cartridges except during bonus CWD season in some select locations route the county. I would love to use the Grendel for hunting but the 350 legend is incredibly good for this purpose.
One of the deer I dropped this year I hit it low and behind the heart but popped both lungs the guys that were tracking that one said it was easy because they were following a 6" wide blood trail the 20-30 yd that one made it. The other one my friend hit with the 45-70 high in the chest she dropped but then she got backup and took off running into my field of fire I popped her with 1 shot in the body and she dropped she was struggling to get backup and I shot her in the neck and that was it. Wound channel wise it was hard to tell what was 45 and what was 350.
I have bought a second longer barreled 350 legend and have bullets that are 200 grain for 35 Whelen. I'm sizing them down to .356 and working out a longer range load with it. Thus far when I get to the velocity (21 to 2200) I want the group's open up but when I have the velocity down around 19 and change the bullets end up touching. I can still get close to my 500yd goal with them at the lower velocity. I need to play with some different powder.
One of the deer I dropped this year I hit it low and behind the heart but popped both lungs the guys that were tracking that one said it was easy because they were following a 6" wide blood trail the 20-30 yd that one made it. The other one my friend hit with the 45-70 high in the chest she dropped but then she got backup and took off running into my field of fire I popped her with 1 shot in the body and she dropped she was struggling to get backup and I shot her in the neck and that was it. Wound channel wise it was hard to tell what was 45 and what was 350.
I have bought a second longer barreled 350 legend and have bullets that are 200 grain for 35 Whelen. I'm sizing them down to .356 and working out a longer range load with it. Thus far when I get to the velocity (21 to 2200) I want the group's open up but when I have the velocity down around 19 and change the bullets end up touching. I can still get close to my 500yd goal with them at the lower velocity. I need to play with some different powder.
No, I load my 357 Maximum with 210 gr spire point bullets. As for 357 Magnum I prefer 174 gr jacketed FP. I don't load anything lighter than that.
Best review the feeding issues of th 450 BM. They have solved most of the feed problems with straight wall rounds.
Looking at these feeds, it appears several guys have come up with pretty good solutions.
More on solid copper bullets. A southwest Michigan company is now loading a 160 gr solid copper 350 Legend round.
Custom Muzzleloader - Inline - Long Range Muzzleloader
Bear Creek Ballistics makes custom muzzleloaders and centerfire rifles, & they're skilled at customizing your current muzzleloaders to bring its best potential.
bearcreekballistics.com
Looks like you’ve done the right thing with the feed ramps; my feed ramp mods for wide meplat 35 cal bullets in a different wildcat are similar. BTW your mags are Lancer, not Lawman5. The model name on the side is L5-AWM so I see the confusion, but if you’re looking for more they are just Lancers. Good is mags generally, but I haven’t tried mine with the 350. I’m using a 350-specific Duramag that have worked flawlessly with the right ammo.
That 9mm bullet round gets hung up because of the rounded nose; while it’s a shorter bullet overall, look at the width about halfway up the nose, where it contacts the chamber wall at an angle during feeding, and compare to the other rounds. Seating deeper will help that middle part of the feeding cycle, but you may still encounter nose diving issues.
That issue of bending the case during feeding is a problem with long straight rounds like this. A shorter case length solves it, but delivers less power. My educated guess is that Winchester made this Legend case as long as they could get away with to feed in most rifles, and that feeding was the limiting factor to prevent making it longer.
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