I am now trying to figure out which IR laser/illuminator I should get. I know the MAWL-C is basically the new standard for civilian class IR devices, but once I drop the cash for L3 WP RNVG's the MAWL-C is less appealing at $2500. Is there an IR laser/illuminator under $1k that's good? Usage would be for target shooting and hunting coyotes. The laser would be mounted primarily on my 12.5" 5.56 SBR.
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Night Vision Let's Discuss Lasers
- Thread starter aslrookie
- Start date
For $1,000 I think of the combo of
Steiner CQBL ir-laser ... 8 oz .. a basic ir-laser ... but a step up from the plastic laser max lasers for around $150. The CQBL was $700 the last time I looked.
And for the laser illuminator, the Luna ELIR-3. Those are around $350 last time I checked.
Basically the integrated units with low power laser illuminators are not worth the weight to carry.
Steiner CQBL ir-laser ... 8 oz .. a basic ir-laser ... but a step up from the plastic laser max lasers for around $150. The CQBL was $700 the last time I looked.
And for the laser illuminator, the Luna ELIR-3. Those are around $350 last time I checked.
Basically the integrated units with low power laser illuminators are not worth the weight to carry.
DBAL-D^2 laser/illuminators are good to go and can be found used for sub $1k. My preferred laser/illuminator setup for short guns is a Crimson Trace Rail Master IR laser @ 3 o'clock and Surefire X300V at 12 o'clock (9 o'clock on my PS90 SBR). The weight added to the rifle is negligible and there are no cables hanging around. The illumination range is nothing like a D^2 or MAWL, though.
Do you guys find any practical use for visible lasers? I know the visible laser can damage the night vision because it’s too bright. I’m just asking more for the sake of conversation. Only time I’ve used a visible laser was early morning coyote hunting and was using it as a way to mark areas instead of saying “that bush over there”.
I suppose the other use would be zeroing during daytime if the visible and IR are slaved together, but that’s pretty minuscule in the grand scheme of things.
I suppose the other use would be zeroing during daytime if the visible and IR are slaved together, but that’s pretty minuscule in the grand scheme of things.
I use vis laser on the cqbl to pre-zero in the house before going outside to zero.
On the radius, I use the vis laser to zero the LRF, since it doesn't have an ir-laser.
Thru a PVS-14 vis lasers look about like ir-lasers .. and you can see them hundreds of yards out ... so they are sort of interchangeable at night with a pvs-14.
Vis lasers are not visible much beyond 25yds in the day time ... hence other than pre-zeroing in the house with them, I only use vis lasers at night with a 14.
I have 2 pistols a 1911 and a 19X. I put an ir-grip laser on the 1911. By the time I got the 19X CT didn't make grip ir-lasers any more. So I put a grip vis laser on the 19X. Again, it works just like the ir-laser at night, with a 14.
On the radius, I use the vis laser to zero the LRF, since it doesn't have an ir-laser.
Thru a PVS-14 vis lasers look about like ir-lasers .. and you can see them hundreds of yards out ... so they are sort of interchangeable at night with a pvs-14.
Vis lasers are not visible much beyond 25yds in the day time ... hence other than pre-zeroing in the house with them, I only use vis lasers at night with a 14.
I have 2 pistols a 1911 and a 19X. I put an ir-grip laser on the 1911. By the time I got the 19X CT didn't make grip ir-lasers any more. So I put a grip vis laser on the 19X. Again, it works just like the ir-laser at night, with a 14.
Doesn’t the vis laser damage night vision? I was trying out my buddies sentinels and used my vis laser and night and he yelled at me for it.
If you point it at a reflective object it could. I don't target shoot 100rds a night with vis lasers and 14s ... but I've been using them together for 5 years and no damage to my 14s.
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As far as aiming lasers go, for snap shots against critters out to 150yds, standing unsupported, any laser will do. Some of them bloom a little while you are zeroing them. I use the illuminator on my helmet to knock out that bloom.
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As to illuminators .. if u want to shoot out to 600yds and need an illuminator to do it ... then not all illuminators will get you there.
To support lighting up critter eyes for snap shots within 150yds ... I use small LED illuminators on my helmets. For 600yds target shooting with SIMRAD, I use ELIR-3 on the rifle.
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As far as aiming lasers go, for snap shots against critters out to 150yds, standing unsupported, any laser will do. Some of them bloom a little while you are zeroing them. I use the illuminator on my helmet to knock out that bloom.
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As to illuminators .. if u want to shoot out to 600yds and need an illuminator to do it ... then not all illuminators will get you there.
To support lighting up critter eyes for snap shots within 150yds ... I use small LED illuminators on my helmets. For 600yds target shooting with SIMRAD, I use ELIR-3 on the rifle.
The MAWL far out performs the other civilian/US made lasers if you want integrated illumination along with a laser.
Features you have to consider would include:
Illumination and a laser integrated? If not, what are you illuminating with? That adds cost to have an IR light, additional pressure pad, and more buttons to push.
Does the laser have a VIS to help with zeroing? Are the VIS and IR lasers slaved?
How do the switches work/can you reach them easily? Each Laser is different, and each person has different hand sizes.
As I am jumping into the NV world, I took a class where I had the chance to rent a MAWL C1+. Compared to my work (full power) PEQ15, I didn’t really find myself wanting more, even out at 300m. I like the dual switches for the MAWL, as well as the power adjustments. I find similar adjustments not as user friendly on a PEQ-15.
It is a lot of money for sure, but the features make it worth it *for me* to save up the extra money over other options (including questionable PEQ15’s), to get the most performance in the long term.
Features you have to consider would include:
Illumination and a laser integrated? If not, what are you illuminating with? That adds cost to have an IR light, additional pressure pad, and more buttons to push.
Does the laser have a VIS to help with zeroing? Are the VIS and IR lasers slaved?
How do the switches work/can you reach them easily? Each Laser is different, and each person has different hand sizes.
As I am jumping into the NV world, I took a class where I had the chance to rent a MAWL C1+. Compared to my work (full power) PEQ15, I didn’t really find myself wanting more, even out at 300m. I like the dual switches for the MAWL, as well as the power adjustments. I find similar adjustments not as user friendly on a PEQ-15.
It is a lot of money for sure, but the features make it worth it *for me* to save up the extra money over other options (including questionable PEQ15’s), to get the most performance in the long term.
Uh, yeah, TNVC has some of the best CS in the business. And they don't blow smoke up their customer's asses. I think they're among the best in a very cut throat industry, an industry that tried to sell me "NASA rated PVS14's" at one point. Yeah. NASA. And Vic is regularly on here, patiently answering the same goddamn questions each week with same exuberance he exhibited years ago when I bought mine. And did I say they have stellar CS? They have stellar CS.
Now I don't know about the Russian shit, I do know it's pretty simple to make one of these if you have the means to do so, so it's hard to fuck up unless you're just cheap. The prices definitely make one worth trying, but after that it needs to be reviewed really good on here. I'd like one along those lines if it holds up.
Finally, for lasing a target to shoot with an AR, 300m is about where most zero it on a rifle with a 300m zero. That way it'll be pretty close to center all the way out to 300 and bit high at the max ordinate around 225m or so. So if the laser maxes out here, no big deal really. And I've taught plenty of SDM's to zero PEQ2's and PAQ4's at .7mW and it works just fine in all but the absolute worst conditions (lots of smoke or fog, shit like that).
If you can afford it and you can find one that's not stolen (which means you know all the agencies to call and ask, etc.) then a PEQ2 is hard to beat if you have the real estate for it. For $2350 a member has a PEQ16 for sale on here now. I'd snatch it up if I had the money to spare on it and wasn't moving. Smaller than a 15, it has all three laser outputs including the illuminator and color laser slaved to one output for easy zeroing and it has a built in white light illuminator. The A model uses an incandescent and the B model uses an LED but I bet changing from incandescent to LED wouldn't be too hard. Anyway, that's about the best you can find for an SBR at the moment that I'm aware of. A PEQ2 can be had for 1/3rd the price though.
For as little as it gets used, I tend to just put Surefire 400V lights on SBR's anymore. Small, light, enough power to do what I'm talking about. You can also get a MeproMor reflex sight that uses batteries, tritium and fiber optics plus has an IR and red laser, both 5mW (which IMO is about perfect for a weapon fired laser pointer) slaved to the dot sight. It was intended for Israeli SF and it's a decent sight worth a look, may be able to get the laser and sight all in one.
You can get a PEQ2A for 500-750 in the secondary market. You can get a full power PEQ15 for less than 2k.
Downside to the 2A is the size, and neither will have a warranty but are light years better than all the civi specific shit tier bullshit thats out there. Only exception is the MAWL which uses some phased laser witchcraft to 'game' its way around restrictions like the PEQ15/2A have. I've used one and its fine, I just dont like the size/shape of the body and its footprint.
Downside to the 2A is the size, and neither will have a warranty but are light years better than all the civi specific shit tier bullshit thats out there. Only exception is the MAWL which uses some phased laser witchcraft to 'game' its way around restrictions like the PEQ15/2A have. I've used one and its fine, I just dont like the size/shape of the body and its footprint.
good advise ..if you see a god buy on one . had 3 of the peq2a , units
and they do put out a nice 'clean' focus Illum. , I even think they cleaner on the focal collimation projected out, than the 15's . ( my opinion ) had a better quality lens cover used on that older model . I find my 15's get way more dust scratches on the lens than the old peq2a models .
Only thing that is a minus - , is the unit is a little longer old body style that does eat-up a little more rail area .
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and they do put out a nice 'clean' focus Illum. , I even think they cleaner on the focal collimation projected out, than the 15's . ( my opinion ) had a better quality lens cover used on that older model . I find my 15's get way more dust scratches on the lens than the old peq2a models .
Only thing that is a minus - , is the unit is a little longer old body style that does eat-up a little more rail area .
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Truth! I bought my 14's from Vic/TNVC and I have had several experienced people ask me where I got such a good optic. CS and response is awesome.
None really to be honest. Just stay away from anything that feels entirely too shady.
However, there are a ton of units out there that are not stolen and some are even happy to provide you with an original receipt or proof of how they came across the unit. Also helps if you have acquisition contacts at DoD firms
Do you have experience with any Newcon Optik gear? If so, please share! There is interest, but not much is known about them or their gear.
And what do they do well? What do they do to out perform the other stuff mentioned above?
well, you might want to take a look at their offerings like I said.
For example, their LAM 3G is almost a dead ringer for a LA-5 specs wise at a price of $1300.
You are also dealing with a company that is based in Canada instead of Russia. Makes CS a little easier.
For example, their LAM 3G is almost a dead ringer for a LA-5 specs wise at a price of $1300.
You are also dealing with a company that is based in Canada instead of Russia. Makes CS a little easier.
You mean the Newcon Optik that has its military contracts suspended over alleged money laundering and bribing a competitor so Newcon would win a defense contract? If you mean that Newcon, I think I will stay away.
Your failure to be specific about their benefits, along with the “Just look them up” feel doesn’t exactly inspire confidence or belief that you actually have any real experience with them.
Cool, you read a data sheet. I looked at a spec sheet for a Dodge Viper, doesn’t mean I actually know if it is any good or not.
And Vortex is US based but makes lots of things over seas. Just because a company HQ is in one location doesn’t mean much in terms of production location.
@slowlearner
Man, you are appropriately named.
I never said that I had any hands on experience with them. I merely said that folks should check them out. I have heard good things about their other products and the laser seems like a good deal.
Then, when you were either too lazy or too stupid to actually go look for yourself I kindly provided you with the information regarding how their laser stacks up on paper to a known US laser.
I do not have one.
I do not have any time actually handling one.
They seem good on paper.
The company HQ is based in CA. This means that you will be able to talk to someone who speaks English instead of
Russiky.
I am well aware that they may or may not make their lasers in Russia, Canada, or elsewhere. I never implied that they did not make them in Russia. Frankly, they could be made on the moon and if they work that would be great. If you want to know where they are made, feel free to ask them, not me. I am not a company rep.
Now, if you would like to continue being an asshole or if you still have the need to make stupid and insinuating comments, go make them elsewhere. I am sorry for trying to provide you with good but limited info. If you want to see a hands on review, feel free to buy one yourself and post up on here with your findings.
Man, you are appropriately named.
I never said that I had any hands on experience with them. I merely said that folks should check them out. I have heard good things about their other products and the laser seems like a good deal.
Then, when you were either too lazy or too stupid to actually go look for yourself I kindly provided you with the information regarding how their laser stacks up on paper to a known US laser.
I do not have one.
I do not have any time actually handling one.
They seem good on paper.
The company HQ is based in CA. This means that you will be able to talk to someone who speaks English instead of
Russiky.
I am well aware that they may or may not make their lasers in Russia, Canada, or elsewhere. I never implied that they did not make them in Russia. Frankly, they could be made on the moon and if they work that would be great. If you want to know where they are made, feel free to ask them, not me. I am not a company rep.
Now, if you would like to continue being an asshole or if you still have the need to make stupid and insinuating comments, go make them elsewhere. I am sorry for trying to provide you with good but limited info. If you want to see a hands on review, feel free to buy one yourself and post up on here with your findings.
@MK20 In case you missed it ...
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/newcon-optik-newcon-international.6944034/#post-7744894
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/newcon-optik-newcon-international.6944034/#post-7744894
I have a civy DBAL i2 IR laser/illuminator. True, it is weak illuminator. I have an ELIR3. True its much better than the I2 but its not perfect and it is bulky. Still, I say spend the extra for a PERST3. Slimmer, better illuminator, pointer almost as good as Steiner, but more power. Cost is $1100-1200 type range.
