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Lets see your USMC M40-M40A6!!!
- Thread starter callsignninja
- Start date
Y’all would have better luck betting on the sun not coming up tomorrow before Surefire does another run of those cans. It will never happen. It’s simply a pay to play game now.
Why do you have to ruin my optimism?
Can’t a fella dream?
I'm holding out on rebuilding my A1 for someone who can really do it correctly. I don't want Cerakote black again, and I'm in no hurry.
A3s are the real MVPs. No pun intended
This is a sick set up wow, must take you a lot of time taking care of those sweet girls
Not an M40 but a distant cousin. XM-3
It can be a love hate relationship at times lolThis is a sick set up wow, must take you a lot of time taking care of those sweet girls
Assembled my Christmas gift to myself this year
, been looking for a while for this old store display.
My first M40A1 clone from many years ago.
, been looking for a while for this old store display.My first M40A1 clone from many years ago.
That’s awesome! Just need to swap in some museum glass and get rid of that glare! I used PDI in my pinball machine and you can’t even tell there is glass.
My 2 cents:
This is my M40A3 built with the original specs for the USMC, along with my Colt M45A1, the perfect duo.
This rifle was modified completely by Dan Ross from D. D. Ross Co, using his and McMillan original parts as in the prototypes and first-issued M40A3's, circa 1999-2001. To me, this is the equivalent to getting Carrol Shelby to build me a GT40.
While most information I found online also cites the schneider barrel as the original M40A3 barrel, it was the D.D. Ross Co barrel, recoil lug, floorplate and optics rail, that was set into M40A3's when first tested and issued.
The rifle has titanium bedding, and weighs in at 18.8lbs.
Yes, the scope and rings are not USMC issued, my cash flow isn't that high yet lol, and the bolt knob cover is purely for storage protection.
I am now in the search for the remaining accessories to make it a complete USMC-Issued build:
This is my M40A3 built with the original specs for the USMC, along with my Colt M45A1, the perfect duo.
This rifle was modified completely by Dan Ross from D. D. Ross Co, using his and McMillan original parts as in the prototypes and first-issued M40A3's, circa 1999-2001. To me, this is the equivalent to getting Carrol Shelby to build me a GT40.
While most information I found online also cites the schneider barrel as the original M40A3 barrel, it was the D.D. Ross Co barrel, recoil lug, floorplate and optics rail, that was set into M40A3's when first tested and issued.
The rifle has titanium bedding, and weighs in at 18.8lbs.
Yes, the scope and rings are not USMC issued, my cash flow isn't that high yet lol, and the bolt knob cover is purely for storage protection.
I am now in the search for the remaining accessories to make it a complete USMC-Issued build:
- M24 Trigger
- Unertl / S&B / Premiere Reticle scope (USMC Issued)
- MRT Sling (issued for M40A1)
- Harris S-BRM (USMC Issued)
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Nice looking stick. Have you shot it yet? I’m still waiting for Dan to build mine.
Nice rifle!
This is the first I've heard of Dan rifling his own barrels from a chuck of steel, interesting bit of history.
This is the first I've heard of Dan rifling his own barrels from a chuck of steel, interesting bit of history.
Mine took 1.5 years, so keep patience by your side lol
Have not shot it yet...why...not mentally past the "trophy/awe" phase yet. This rifle embodies the dream I lost when I was 11 of becoming an USMC Sniper, so it's been more of an accolade than just another rifle to shoot.
My goal with it is a 5-shot 2" grouping at 1000yds. A lot of the long range shooting ranges around me have closed down or have super expensive memberships, so I am still trying to figure out a road map of places to practice and qualify at. My buddy has acreage for the long shots, but I wouldn't be able to practice much there.
Thanks! Dan has been great to get to know and learn from. My goal is to help rewrite a lot of the history around the M40A3 to include the part he played in its history. For all I actually know, he could be bs'ing, but part of my journey will be to get as much information, documentation, and stories from him regarding the prototyping of the rifle, contracting, manufacturing, and everything up until the M40A5 was introduced.
He had plenty to say about Schneider, and Badger in our brief phone convos and texts, so I'm excited to get the full details and supporting documentation of that time frame from 1996 - 2001.
Seems like there is a lot of information and appreciation for the M40 platform on here. I haven't done much digging into it yet, but it would be great to have an M40 enthusiasts meeting or shooting competition, or even booth at a major gun show. Now that I have the rifle, I'm on the hunt for all of the accessories and auxiliary equipment that the sniper teams used along with the M40A3, so the meetings/conferences would be a great opportunity to meet, swap, and buy!
This map may help you out finding a range.
Over600 - The spot for ranges over 600 yards
Find a range near you that is over 600 yards with an easy to use map and list.
I have talked to Dan in the past, but didn't get the barrel story.
I've spent many years tracking down parts and have been able to complete a few rifles with some "rare" parts. I do take one of my clone rifles with me when I set up every year at our local Military show.
My buddy Harry has done the same. We always talk build progress and other clone world gossip lol. It's a good time. He usually has a clone'ish rifle or parts with him at the big military show in Louisville.
I've found in my experience that the hard-core collectors of unicorn type parts is a very tight knit group that hardly ever post anywhere or list much if anything for sale. Most of the "rare" parts I've gotten has been done by text with contacts I've made along the way. Can
M40rifle .com was a good site, but sadly... it dosen't exist anymore.
I didn't go spec on my A3'ish, it is 6.5cm with a barrel nut set up for easy barrel swaps/caliber changes (pic below). The drag bag is/was an issued piece I believe. I have another completed A3 barreled action, M24 trigger, SB 3-12, Ross issued rail, and other stuff ready to go if I decide to build "full spec" A3 clone down the road. It's actually set up as an "A2" right now. I've talked to Dan about the A2 before. "Officially" there was never an A2, but more of a testing before the A3. Search M40A2 on the site if you care to know more.
Let me if you need a MRT sling and have a certain date in mind... I will look through the extras that I have.
Attachments
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I found a bunch of unpublished M40 series docs at the National Archives and in the mid to late 1990's they start to talk about updating the aging M40A1 and you see the ground work start for the M40A3.
I see them state in the wind up to the new program that they were having a hard time getting the HS Precision barrels to shoot accurately. So they mention for the new updated M40 series rifle they would like to switch back to Hart, with alternatives of Schneider and Douglass. They detail all three were "Buttoned rifled barrels." They also detail that Schneider was very similar to Hart and was actually the barrel maker for the Army Shooting teams.
Next I see them do a barrel endurance test with the Schneider's in Dec 1997 on some newly built M40A1s and they were thoroughly impressed with how well the Schneider shot even exceeding nearly 3x their desired maximum round count for barrels. So they seem extremely impressed with Schneider barrels from that moment on.
The short of this is, they built the first test M40A3's around May 1999 and by then it seems Schneider was firmly established as the barrel maker. Then in 2001 when I see all the information on the barrels turned into Headquarters Marines for the orders to buy the parts to build the M40a3's, they detail the Schneider is the only barrel that meets the precision qualification of the M40A3. They once again reference the Dec 1997 endurance trials as proof that Schneider was the only choice. There are also mentions that they were the only manufacturer that could produce the barrel in the quantities they needed, in the timeframe required.
Talking to guys who were involved in the testing at PWS during this time, it sounds like there were a lot of things tested all the time. As companies were always submitting items to try to get a Govt Contract. A lot of that testing would have never made the official documents, so I'm sure a lot of stuff was tested that was never recorded and wouldn't be known by anyone unless you were there. So that is always a possibility. But at least from the official documents I found at the archives, Schneider seems to have been the choice even from the beginning.
I see them state in the wind up to the new program that they were having a hard time getting the HS Precision barrels to shoot accurately. So they mention for the new updated M40 series rifle they would like to switch back to Hart, with alternatives of Schneider and Douglass. They detail all three were "Buttoned rifled barrels." They also detail that Schneider was very similar to Hart and was actually the barrel maker for the Army Shooting teams.
Next I see them do a barrel endurance test with the Schneider's in Dec 1997 on some newly built M40A1s and they were thoroughly impressed with how well the Schneider shot even exceeding nearly 3x their desired maximum round count for barrels. So they seem extremely impressed with Schneider barrels from that moment on.
The short of this is, they built the first test M40A3's around May 1999 and by then it seems Schneider was firmly established as the barrel maker. Then in 2001 when I see all the information on the barrels turned into Headquarters Marines for the orders to buy the parts to build the M40a3's, they detail the Schneider is the only barrel that meets the precision qualification of the M40A3. They once again reference the Dec 1997 endurance trials as proof that Schneider was the only choice. There are also mentions that they were the only manufacturer that could produce the barrel in the quantities they needed, in the timeframe required.
Talking to guys who were involved in the testing at PWS during this time, it sounds like there were a lot of things tested all the time. As companies were always submitting items to try to get a Govt Contract. A lot of that testing would have never made the official documents, so I'm sure a lot of stuff was tested that was never recorded and wouldn't be known by anyone unless you were there. So that is always a possibility. But at least from the official documents I found at the archives, Schneider seems to have been the choice even from the beginning.
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In the spirit of early A3s gotta love a big hook stock
haha your collection is insane man your not fooling anyone here lol
I actually have one of the original USMC M40A3 test barrels from the late 1990's, I think it's a Douglas. It's an extremely unique barrel, and it's one of the only original USMC artifacts that still exists from the A3 testing in the late 90's. If you look in my A1 thread, you can see some photos of this unique A3 test barrel. (post number 5, barrel number 3 in the link below). I'll have to post some photos of the markings one of these days.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/need-help-deciding-m40a1-build-configurations.7153492/
When I look at the M40A3 Test rifles built in May 1999, at least everyone I see details a Schneider 1 in 12. Now whether there was anything else tested past that, that is a good question.
When I went through SSAC in '01, they (can't remember if it was the instructors or PWS when we toured the shop there) spoke of the Schneider test barrels. Throat shot out by far and still held sub MOA. It was a hands down win for Schneider.
As for the continued 1:12" twist, I'm betting that's in the category of "always done it that way" or the continued idea that someday snipers would be delinking belts to shoot 147gr. Or both.
As for the continued 1:12" twist, I'm betting that's in the category of "always done it that way" or the continued idea that someday snipers would be delinking belts to shoot 147gr. Or both.
When I talked to him I believe he mentioned having built one of the first A3s if not the first. Think he said he still has it. Had something to do with loaning it to McMillan and taking awhile to get it back from them. Maybe just a test piece or first assembly between those two. Maybe not an actual USMC test rifle. Lots of maybes. Lol.
I think most of us are just surprised to hear of a Dan Ross barrel…. I didn’t know he ever made his own barrels.
He doesn't make the blanks, I've never heard of him ever using any type of rifling equipment. I know for a fact that he really like using Hart barrels back in the 1990's, and he even used a Hart barrel on the rifle he sent to the Marines to test his prototype A3 parts.
I purchased that USMC A3 test rifle from him a long time ago, and I've posted photos of it on the forums before. It's a cool rifle! It uses prototype DD Ross A3 parts, and 1 of the first 5 McMillan A4 stocks ever made (large butthook and camo color). This rifle has a Hart barrel on it.
There's no question about it, the Marines tested numerous different barrels on the A3 prototypes. Here's my Douglas barrel that was tested in 1999. It was used on rifle 221732, and was tested pretty much side-by-side with a Schneider barrel on this same rifle (seriously, the barrels were switched and they were both twsted on 221732). So, Here's actual proof of other barrels being used in the A3 prototype testing. If you look in the test shed books, there should be an entry for the 221732 rifle with this Douglas barrel and the Schneider barrel. I wish this was the Schneider barrel, because that one would be far more valuable!
The Marines absolutely loved the Schneider barrels, and they gave the famous high round count barrel back to Gary Schneider, who still has it. He refuses to sell it, and he was even thinking about rechambering it and mounting it to one of his hunting rifles, just to piss off USMC collectors and historians. Don't bother asking him to sell you the barrel, he won't take anything for it, many people (including me) have tried to save that piece of USMC history. Who knows what he did with it or if he still has it (modified or unmodified).
Here is my USMC A3 prototype Douglas test barrel:
This barrel was legally acquired, since it was given to a very famous Marine after it was used in the A3 prototype testing (no, it was not given to Chandler).
one of the more beautiful things of getting fact checked is learning something new, thanks!
USMCSGT0331
USMCSGT0331
USMCSGT0331: your dedication to accurate historically recording of the development and fielding of the USMC sniper rifles, along with research pursued by cplnorton is truely a magnificent body of work. Please, the book you have alluded to since the M40rifle days is sorely needed. Thanks so much for your efforts....
To be fair, I don't know if Dan Ross has ever experimented with rifling his own barrels and making barrels from scratch. I'm just providing the information that I know is 100% correct, such as him using Hart barrel blanks. It possible that he could have made a few barrels from scratch, but I highly doubt that would have ever happened. It's much easier to just acquire a barrel blank from a company that has decades of experience making them and then hanging it on a receiver.
I don't think I'm fact checking anyone or calling people out, I don't want to be that guy. I just post information that I have because it benefits everyone, that's all. If I'm wrong about anything (which happens, no one is infallible), I'm happy to learn something new and correct my information. I'm very glad that you liked the information that I posted, that's the best response that I could possibly get!
Fact checking can be a positive thing, with the right attitude. I too was just relaying information that I came across and got from him. Always the chance for some misunderstandings or exaggerations.
As far as I know, the barrel on mine was made from him, but you brought up a good point about the blank, and I'm not confident that I know if he made the blank or got it from somewhere. I'll reach out and confirm.
Thanks again for all the info. Will wait patiently for your book as well.
So I actually found the docs on this exact barrel at the Archives.
This barrel actually predates the M40A3 test rifles by a few years. It actually even predates the Schneider barrel tests from 1997. This was part of a M40A1 test barrel program because they seem to have been fed up with the poor accuracy of the HS Precision barrels and they were trying to figure out a way to fix it. So, the story on this barrel is this. This was actually a M40A1 test barrel from July 1996. The other thing is too, I would have likely assumed the 1732 was for serial 221732 just like you did. But 221732 actually wasn't a Marine M40 serial. But C6711732 was. Which also would be 1732.
Not only was C6711732 a M40A1, but it is detailed as prototype M40A1 used to test a (4GR 1-12 D) test barrel in July 1996. The exact same markings that are on your barrel above. They also tested a 1-10 HS precision barrel on this same receiver before this barrel. Then in July 1999 C6711732 was still classified as a M40A1, when the barrel was changed to a 1-12 Schneider.
This seems to be basically the functional end of the M40A1 program as about 2 years after your barrel is tested, they start to talk about the research and development of updating the M40A1 rifle. This was in the summer of 1998. By late 1998, that is where I see Dan Ross start to enter into the docs talking about his products.
To finish out the rollout of the M40A3 program, the test or prototype M40A3's were built around May 1999, which they detail they were built on E637 receivers and they detail Schneider 1-12's. These are the rifles I see listed in the M40A3 trial reports of 2000 and 2001. From those two trials everything is finalized, and orders are submitted to build all the M40A3's in 2001 to outfit the fleet.
So you actually have a 100% documented M40A1 trial barrel. I have the Marine docs on it from the Archives. Which probably makes it more desirable than a M40A3 test barrel. There were only a couple of these barrels made and that is an incredible piece of Marine history.
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Dang, that's amazing information, thank you! Not the first time I've gotten information wrong or mixed up, and it definitely won't be the last time, lol. I thought it was an A3 test barrel, but apparently I got my info wrong. Great to know about the receiver too! It's still a very unique and historical USMC artifact, now we know the details about it, thank you! On post #5 in my A1 thread, I show this barrel and say that it's an A1 barrel. No idea why I was thinking that it was an A3 barrel. My thinking and memory has been getting slower and less accurate over the past few years.So I actually found the docs on this exact barrel at the Archives.
So, the story on this barrel is this. This was actually a M40A1 test barrel from June 1996. The other thing is too, I would have likely assumed the 1732 was for serial 221732 just like you did. But 221732 actually wasn't a Marine M40 serial. But C6711732 was. Which also would be 1732.
Not only was C6711732 a M40A1, but it is detailed as prototype M40A1 used to test a (4GR 1-12 D) test barrel in June 1996. The exact same markings that are on your barrel above. They also tested a 1-10 HS precision barrel on this same receiver before this barrel. Then in July 1999 C6711732 was still classified as a M40A1, when the barrel was changed to a 1-12 Schneider.
This seems to be basically the functional end of the M40A1 program as about 2 years after your barrel is tested in the summer of 1998, they start to talk about the research and development of updating the M40A1 rifle. By late 1998, that is where I see Dan Ross start to enter into the docs talking about his products.
To finish out the rollout of the M40A3 program, the test or prototype M40A3's were built around May 1999, which they detail they were built on E637 receivers and they detail Schneider 1-12's. These are the rifles I see listed in the M40A3 trial reports of 2000 and 2001. From those two trials everything is finalized and orders are submitted to build all the M40A3's in late 2001 to outfit the fleet.
So you actually have a 100% documented M40A1 trial barrel. I have the Marine docs on it from the Archives. Which probably makes it more desirable than a M40A3 test barrel. There were only a couple of these barrels made and that is an incredible piece of Marine history.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/need-help-deciding-m40a1-build-configurations.7153492/
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It 100% is a unique item. As far as I can only 2 were trialed and I would bet alot of money this is the only one that still exists. That is super rare!
Would you mind sharing the documents? It would be great to read through.So I actually found the docs on this exact barrel at the Archives.
So, the story on this barrel is this. This was actually a M40A1 test barrel from July 1996. The other thing is too, I would have likely assumed the 1732 was for serial 221732 just like you did. But 221732 actually wasn't a Marine M40 serial. But C6711732 was. Which also would be 1732.
Not only was C6711732 a M40A1, but it is detailed as prototype M40A1 used to test a (4GR 1-12 D) test barrel in July 1996. The exact same markings that are on your barrel above. They also tested a 1-10 HS precision barrel on this same receiver before this barrel. Then in July 1999 C6711732 was still classified as a M40A1, when the barrel was changed to a 1-12 Schneider.
This seems to be basically the functional end of the M40A1 program as about 2 years after your barrel is tested in the summer of 1998, they start to talk about the research and development of updating the M40A1 rifle. By late 1998, that is where I see Dan Ross start to enter into the docs talking about his products.
To finish out the rollout of the M40A3 program, the test or prototype M40A3's were built around May 1999, which they detail they were built on E637 receivers and they detail Schneider 1-12's. These are the rifles I see listed in the M40A3 trial reports of 2000 and 2001. From those two trials everything is finalized, and orders are submitted to build all the M40A3's in 2001 to outfit the fleet.
So you actually have a 100% documented M40A1 trial barrel. I have the Marine docs on it from the Archives. Which probably makes it more desirable than a M40A3 test barrel. There were only a couple of these barrels made and that is an incredible piece of Marine history.
I read through some archives I came across, detailing the testing and orders of the premiere reticle scopes right before S&B took over, or something like that.
Hey I appreciate you asking and being so passionate about researching these rifles. I love to see people seek out the original source documents and not just rely on books or online posts for their info. I am however sorry to say I cannot share them (at least at this time) because some of the info was given to me and I was asked not to share until that individual was gone. I was mostly used as a caretaker of the info so it wasn't lost. On some of the story, an individual helped pay for my research trips to the Archives to find them, with the stipulation the docs would remain between us. So in both situations, I sort of gave my word to keep these docs private. I routinely share research pre-Vietnam because I funded all of that, but the later stuff I was helped financially with some of it, so I just always respect that.
I've been collecting Sniper documents for about 20 years now and I'm nearing the end just because I think I have exhausted nearly every lead. At some point once I have everyone's blessing that was involved, I'm going to release it all. Either a website, or hard drives of documents, or something to get the info out so people can continue the research. So it will be coming at some point.
Army Special Forces M40. I'm using an extremely rare M83 take-off scope base, and a NightForce Mil-Spec 3.5-15x50 scope with an H-59 reticle. I have no idea is any of these optics pieces would be correct for this type of rifle, they just fit well and look good!
That's a Contact Memory Button. I discuss that feature and the history of this unique rifle in post #5 in this thread:
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...irca-1968-69-probably-af-or-navy-m40.7218195/
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