Let's talk PCC's

[kthomas]

The wife wants a shorty PCC.

Something that's compact, reliable, fun and suppressor ready for the Octane 45 she owns.

What PCC pistols should we look at? What are you using as a PCC, and how do you like it?

I see Sig makes the MCX, the JP GMR-15, and Noveske Diplomat. What else is out there? Any to add or cross off the list?

 

[NewsShooter]

The wife wants a shorty PCC.

Something that's compact, reliable, fun and suppressor ready for the Octane 45 she owns.

What PCC pistols should we look at? What are you using as a PCC, and how do you like it?

I see Sig makes the MCX, the JP GMR-15, and Noveske Diplomat. What else is out there? Any to add or cross off the list?

Leadstar makes a decent one, I put one together with aero precision parts. Both use glock mags.

 

[CaptArab]

The new JP roller looks sweet but I'd rather buy a used AI for that coin.

Cmmg banshee sounds great with a can (noticably better than a blowback) if you value suppressed giggles over reliability.

 

[srt-4_uk]

I have an MPX and love it. Super reliable for me and I run it with an Octane 45.
I also hear really good things about the CMMG radial delay guns. It also has a lot more caliber options

 

[Bkultra]

APC9 Pro (Aimpoint Arco P2 in transit)

 

[ELCO82]

Apc45 is my favorite

 

[ut755ln]

The wife wants a shorty PCC.

Something that's compact, reliable, fun and suppressor ready for the Octane 45 she owns.

What PCC pistols should we look at? What are you using as a PCC, and how do you like it?

I see Sig makes the MCX, the JP GMR-15, and Noveske Diplomat. What else is out there? Any to add or cross off the list?

I am going to give you two different answers because I am mental.

1) Almost any direct blow back PCC works fine. It is hard for them to mess up because it is a very basic operating system. If you are okay with shooting a 9mm pistol, a PCC is going to be that much easier. After playing with them for a while, I bought the Kalashnikov KP9 with a folding brace. I splurged on the upgrade trigger. It is a really nice PCC and it is extremely simple and reliable.

2) I sold the PCC when I realized that there was no point in me owning one. I don't compete in a PCC division so I just decided to stick with either rifle caliber carbines or pistols just to make my life easier. When thinking about this space, I go back and forth on the 300 Blackout and shooting it subsonic instead of say a 9mm.

 

[hafejd30]

I like my cz scorpion

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Love my mpx. Softest shooting, suppressed it's super quiet, and I can hit a 6" plate all day long at 100 with my cheap sig romeo5 on it. You can put a really nice trigger on it too but just replacing the trigger springs does quite a bit. My 5 year old absolutely loves shooting it and my wife does too.

My pcc/223 is what I carry around in my truck. It's sweet too and piston driven so with a can it's pretty slick but it's not like shooting a 9mm of course

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Pretty sure my AR is going to a neighbor who will pay more than I paid for it to be replaced by a Sig MPX....both I and the old woman can run it and there is oodles of 9mm in the basement. I think moving forward my SHTF carbine will be a PCC backed by high cap 9mm double stack pistols that use the same ammuntion.

Getting too old for AR's.

VooDoo

 

[AMGtuned]

I am designing/building a 40s&w PCC type weapon. It will utilize a lot of Aero Precision stuff, and a good charge of homemade items. End goal is integrally suppressed, SBR.

This was part of my inspiration; from Quarter Circle 10

 

[roostercogburn98]

AR 9 is hard to beat for reliability. They do have the tendency to be heavy recoiled with all that mass reciprocating. They can be made fairly short and parts are everywhere and affordable.

I was a huge fan of roller guns until I had my OM9RS. The fluted chamber does funky things to brass, but if your not reloading then no big deal there. Parts are fairly common, but seem a little more pricey.

Both were about the same size, and honestly I’d be happy with either.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Blowback PCCs are reliable. But my favorite thing about a blowback pcc is 10x the recoil of a rifle round for only 50% of the effectiveness.

 

[CK1.0]

I've had just about every PCC under the sun (short of the new JP5) and shot tens of thousands of rounds of 9mm through them, and for getting into it, I'd recommend a Foxtrot Mike. You won't have to change anything unless you want to and you'll have a good gun that works and is fun to shoot.

That said, while not expensive, they are made well and are a great platform for tricking out as far as you want to take it. Drop in a $200 Hiperfire and a $300 buffer system and there's probably nothing better for burning through shitloads of 9mm at warp speed. I'll be slapping a Brekke Custom upper on one of mine soon.

The MPX is also a great platform, and I ran one hard for a long time with every upgrade one can get for them, but they're not my first choice anymore because once they get dirty they can become unreliable (I'd rather live with simple caveman blow-back that doesn't fuck up ever).

(As an aside, I think it's hilarious when guys dismiss these things as being shitty for home defense... I've shot a lot of AR in 3-gun and tactical LEO/SORT/SWAT situations for a long time, and the blizzard of nails one can unleash with a PCC, without any blast or concussion to contend with, especially indoors, is no fucking joke. AFAIK 9mm JHP doesn't just bounce off lol.)

 

[kthomas]

Appreciate all the opinions so far!

My wife reminded me that a work friend of hers builds/assembles PCC's as a hobby, and she doesn't want to spend much on this project. Ultimately, it's just a range toy, nothing more.

I'll work with her friend to get something built. The foxtrot Mike looks interesting, especially for the price. I've also heard really good things about the CMMG Banshee.

So any tips on what components we should be looking at for building a reliable and fun PCC for the money would be good. The high end stuff like JP and the likes are out

 

[TurboTrout]

Would highly recommend

KP-9 Pistol

Explore Kalashnikov USA KP-9 Pistol and other firearms and tactical accessories at Kalashnikov USA. Russian heritage. American Ingenuity.

kalashnikov-usa.com

The photo isn’t mine, but with a CMC trigger and a small RDS its a hoot, if she wants more pretty you can also put the old school AK wood on, or go full kebbs mlock hand guard



(Not my video ether)




They also have a Kr9 with a longer barrel, if you’re into that type of thing

Outside from that I’d go JP, if budget didn’t allow CMMG, but price point isnt all that different honestly

 

[kthomas]

Would highly recommend

KP-9 Pistol

Explore Kalashnikov USA KP-9 Pistol and other firearms and tactical accessories at Kalashnikov USA. Russian heritage. American Ingenuity.

kalashnikov-usa.com

The photo isn’t mine, but with a CMC trigger and a small RDS its a hoot, if she wants more pretty you can also put the old school AK wood on, or go full kebbs mlock hand guard



(Not my video ether)




They also have a Kr9 with a longer barrel, if you’re into that type of thing

Outside from that I’d go JP, if budget didn’t allow CMMG, but price point isnt all that different honestly

That KP-9 looks pretty awesome and a load of fun

 

[TurboTrout]

That KP-9 looks pretty awesome and a load of fun

It is, but man that 9mm goes quick lol

 

[CK1.0]

Appreciate all the opinions so far!

My wife reminded me that a work friend of hers builds/assembles PCC's as a hobby, and she doesn't want to spend much on this project. Ultimately, it's just a range toy, nothing more.

I'll work with her friend to get something built. The foxtrot Mike looks interesting, especially for the price. I've also heard really good things about the CMMG Banshee.

So any tips on what components we should be looking at for building a reliable and fun PCC for the money would be good. The high end stuff like JP and the likes are out

Building it yourself is the best way.

I'd start with a Foxtrot Mike lower for sure, they've got it right. They have a stripped lower, and a semi-complete one (with buffer and tube, ambi-safety, etc) that's great for the money. Their bolt is pretty good too. Often, with Primary Arms' or Brownell's specials, it's cheaper to buy a complete one and just take off what you don't like.

From there, you can do pretty much whatever you want.

FWIW, if you end up going whole hog and end up wading into the short-stroke waters: the A5 tube + Orange Sprinco + $0.50 in quarters or Brekke spacer + KynShot 5020ss = totally worth the money, shredding nirvana lol.

 

[308ftWIN]

CMMG

 

[kriller134]

I’d recommend the hi point carbine. It’s cheap and has that hi point reliability. Take that for what you will, but when it works it works, and when it doesn’t, you can beat the fuck out someone with it.

 

[1911hombre]

Laugh. Go ahead. My KelTec Sub 2000 is a hoot and dead reliable. Folds and unfolds in the blink of an eye.

 

[Flintdog2011]

Laugh. Go ahead. My KelTec Sub 2000 is a hoot and dead reliable. Folds and unfolds in the blink of an eye.

I’ve got a Ruger. Paid next to nothing, worth next to nothing, and has run like a sewing machine since I got it. Plenty accurate and reliable

 

[CK1.0]

Damn, watched that Garand Thumb vid and now I kind of want one of those Kp-9's too. It's hard to resist the power of the AK...

Pragmatically though, glock mags + AR parts = easier.

(Still might have to get one lol )

 

[TurboTrout]

Damn, watched that Garand Thumb vid and now I kind of want one of those Kp-9's too. It's hard to resist the power of the AK...

Pragmatically though, glock mags + AR parts = easier.

(Still might have to get one lol )

The Kalashnikov mags are actually pretty good, load super easy and I haven’t had any troubles shooting FMJ range ammo to HSTs, it’s nice to be standardized but for a specific mag, ain’t bad

2 for $50

Kalashnikov USA KR-9 Mag - AtlanticFirearms.com

Kalashnikov USA KR-9 30 round magazine. 9MM 30 round magazine perfect for your KR-9 or other Kalashnikov 9MM firearms. 811777020647.

atlanticfirearms.com

 

[Dough300]

I bought 2 ATI Milsports over the last 4 years. They were under the $800, don't remember the exact price. They have ran great with over 15k through each of them. With only one broken firing pin. I do change them after about 5k rounds now.

 

[ut755ln]

Damn, watched that Garand Thumb vid and now I kind of want one of those Kp-9's too. It's hard to resist the power of the AK...

Pragmatically though, glock mags + AR parts = easier.

(Still might have to get one lol )

Yeah I had one and enjoyed shooting it, I just did not have a purpose for it so I sold it.

 

[WindstormSCR]

having owned/shot several different PCCs and a few full-auto 9mm subguns, my opinion on this has changed a bit over time.

I own a scorpion and quite enjoy it, but if I were doing the whole thing again I think my recommendation would have to seriously be a PTR 9CT. the fit and finish on them is good, the price isn't categorically insane, and unlike the HK offering it's actually compatible with old school MP5 parts.

there are a few different models to choose from, depending if you want a welded rail or not. all of them are easily swapped to suppressor rollers and most I believe now come with both a three-lug and a thread on the barrel.

9 x 19mm – PTR

PTR |

ptr-us.com

the only catch is that you'll need to send it to them to have the bolt/rollers correctly set up for suppressed use (they have to swap the bolt out to fit the correct 80 degree locking piece)

once that's done though, you'll never want to sell it. too much fun.

Laugh. Go ahead. My KelTec Sub 2000 is a hoot and dead reliable. Folds and unfolds in the blink of an eye.

Tbh, the Sub-2000 is interesting in a lot of ways, I think it's a shame they don't make a more compact variant. most of the KT stuff in my experience so far is that the designs are solid, but sometimes the design is let down by use of less "premium" materials in places it really could have done with them.

The CMR-30 is a great example. interesting design, very fun, but just that little bit of polish away from being something incredibly special.

 

[ECK]

I assembled my own from parts back in 2017 when PCC was introduced as a provisional division for USPSA. Shot it for most of that first year. PCCs are fun, and putting together your own can be a cheaper option than buying one off the shelf with the added bonus you end up with exactly the configuration you want. But be warned, my PCC today looks nothing like the original one from 2017 other than the lower once I got into it and started playing around with different parts for gun games….

Big question for new PCC owner is what mags do you want it to run off of? The two biggies are Colt SMG pattern mags or Glock mags. A few makers also offer MP5 mags as an option or even some of the more common pistol mags (hint, if you also have a pistol it is kinda handy to share mags between the two). If you go with the Sig you’re stuck with Sig proprietary PCC mags.

I started out with a Quarter Circle 10 lower that accepted Colt SMG mags, a generic AR-15 upper, CMMG BCG, generic 16” barrel w/ A2 birdcage, 13” handguard, and a basic Magpul stock. Swapped out the CMMG BCG and basic AR buffer for JP BCG and SCS for softer recoil. Also replaced the 16” barrel with a Taccom 5.5” bbl w/ pinned 16.1” aluminum shroud. Also added a Hyperfire trigger and Magpul K2 grip (more vertical grip on a shorter AR was more comfortable for me).

For optics, I’ve played around with a few, but the basic C-More railway is a proven optic and a 6MOA dot is good for engaging targets from 5 yds to 75 yds (probably more). I also added a second red dot on a 45 deg offset mount for hard left leans.

 

[kthomas]

Good input about mags.

I know a lot use Glock magazines - I don't own any Glocks, so that's not really a pro for me.

For pistols, I own a 1911, Sig P226 and an HK VP9. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that there is not much or any opportunity to share mags between my current pistols and a PCC.

 

[mrtoyz]

Kind of a been there done that PCC situation for me. Bottom line, KP-9 and or 8” MPX would be my suggestion.

 

[Pipefitter I’m]

Take a look at the Freedom Ordnance FX9, its reliable and fun

 

[srt-4_uk]

If you don't own a Glock/clone, you are buying mags for 1 gun.
If you don't own another PCC that takes Colt mags, you are buying mags for 1 gun.
If you don't own another MPX, you are buying mags for 1 gun.

At least with Glock mags, they are cheap, everywhere, and can be used on other guns you likely don't care about.
MPX mags are more expensive than Glock or Colt. Offer the same versatility as Colt (none). And are just as reliable as all the others.

 

[mkollman74]

I’ve had a few. I am currently running a roller-delayed Stribog that uses Glock mags. Simple. Reliable. Accurate (enough). I don’t see it going anywhere.

 

[Bluedog82]

Now is the best time ever to get into an MP5 clone. Around $1100 shipped at atlanticfirearms.com…I love mine so far.

 

[blbennett1288]

Now is the best time ever to get into an MP5 clone. Around $1100 shipped at atlanticfirearms.com…I love mine so far.

Link?

 

[CaptArab]

I assembled my own from parts back in 2017 when PCC was introduced as a provisional division for USPSA. Swapped out the CMMG BCG and basic AR buffer for JP BCG and SCS for softer recoil. Also replaced the 16” barrel with a Taccom 5.5” bbl w/ pinned 16.1” aluminum shroud.

A couple questions for ya-
I've got an 8" cmmg upper on a 223 lower but want a "rifle" setup for PCC games.

What's the deal with a pinned shroud? Why not just pin and weld a 14.5 or run a 16"?

Second, is the JP bolt/scs a good buy?
I might go with the aero receivers. Was tempted to do a cheapo toolcraft 9mm bolt. They're like $88 right now.

 

[Bluedog82]

Here’s the full-size with a quality folding brace… $1254 shipped. The K with folding brace is the same….with no brace is $1100.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Don’t buy a “K”.

The reverse stretch offers better buttstock or rear attachment options, and has a full size frame. It just has the short front end like a K.

 

[ECK]

A couple questions for ya-
I've got an 8" cmmg upper on a 223 lower but want a "rifle" setup for PCC games.

What's the deal with a pinned shroud? Why not just pin and weld a 14.5 or run a 16"?

Second, is the JP bolt/scs a good buy?
I might go with the aero receivers. Was tempted to do a cheapo toolcraft 9mm bolt. They're like $88 right now.

Two reasons I went with the Taccom barrel: when I had a 16” bbl on there my 9mm reloads chrono’d in the high 140’s PF instead of 130 PF they normally do out of a 5” pistol. So to tone down the dot bounce of the AR-9’s heavy bolt I downloaded my PCC ammo to a soft 130-ish PF. But that meant I had to keep two 9mm loads on hand. Kinda a logistical PITA. The Taccom 5.5” barrel meant I could use my comp pistol load and get roughly the same 130-132 PF. I could have done a 14.5” bbl with pinned comp, but that wouldn’t have resolved needing two loads of 9mm (one for PCC one for pistol).

The other reason I went with the Taccom was it took about 0.5 lb of weight off the front of the carbine and made is more balanced. Less weight out front resulted in faster transitions. Also no need for a comp as the shroud was plenty loud for the shot timer to pick up without the RO riding my ass. I got tired of reshoots when I had the A2 birdcage on the end of the 16” barrel bc the shot timer didn’t pick up my last shot.

JP BCG/SCS is a good combo. First off it is reliable. My original 9mm BCG, not so much. Never had a malf with the JP kit. Before I got the SCS I experimented with different buffer weights, springs, took the weight out of the BCG…etc. to minimize the dot bounce on recoil. There may be a better combo out there than the JP BCG/SCS to reduce blowback recoil, but I wanted reliability first. Plus I have the SCS in another AR, and not having the sound of the spring rubbing the buffer tube is nice.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

What's the deal with a pinned shroud? Why not just pin and weld a 14.5 or run a 16"?

I did a pinned shroud on a 5.5" barrel but with a compensator between the barrel and shroud. The idea was light weight/fast pointing as well as what little gas 9mm makes still having some pressure when exiting at 5.5". The longer the barrel the more the gas expands to fill the volume of the bore. After 16" of .35x" bore to fill the gas has little to no pressure left to work against a baffle surface.
It worked. But it sucked. Mostly because it turned your hand black, gave it the tingles if it was too far back, and with coated bullets the buildup in the comp was ridiculous and required handguard removal to clean. Weirdly loud for a PCC too. I also kinda disliked the weightless front end feel and went to a 14" P&W setup. The comp doesn't work as well but the front end stability from the added weight makes up for it, and you could shoot it without ear pro if you had to.

 

[CaptArab]

Kicking myself I didn't snag that JP in the PX a couple days ago

 

[SanPatHogger]

I built a 10.5 AR9 pistol with a Moriatri arms kit. It shoots good. Then I found out you cant shoot it in USPSA, so I added a barrel extention and put a butstock on it. It has almost no recoil, but it does bounce a lot.
I shot a guys SIG MPX after the match was over. A 9mm gas gun with a big muzzle brake has ZERO recoil. I could shoot a shotgun shell on the ground and literally follow it with the red dot.
For the AR9 glock mags are cheap and the kit and lower were cheap. But if you want to go fast I'd say go with a SIG, it's way nicer.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

But if you want to go fast I'd say go with a SIG, it's way nicer.

That's what all the guys around me did. Up until they all ditched them.

 

[502Chevelle]

I’ve got a Leadstar and 2 JPs. It’s the Leadstar that rock and rolls at matches for me. Everyone is making extensions for Glock mags. It’s too easy. Grab a Leadstar, a few Glock mags and some big Taylor Freelance extensions, and have so much fun, that you will wonder how you did without one. Don’t get me wrong, the JPs rock, but they are much heavier, and my wife MUCH prefers the LS because of that. The fact is, I borrow “her” gun most Saturdays for matches.

 

[RKBArmory]

Now is the best time ever to get into an MP5 clone. Around $1100 shipped at atlanticfirearms.com…I love mine so far.

These lower prices finally allowed me to get one.

 

[SanPatHogger]

That's what all the guys around me did. Up until they all ditched them.

Why did they ditch them? After Shooting one I was thinking about giving up beer and stuff to try to get one...
I want to say I read somewhere that the PCC class in USPSA was now dominated by the MPX.
Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to see where you and the guys that ditched them are coming from.

I got the AR9 because I thought I could get my wife to shoot ARs with me. She likes shooting her pistol, I figured this would be the next easiest step. I've shot a carbine/AR match before and loved it, for $25 I can shoot limited AND PCC at my local indoor match. 9mm is cheap compared to .223/5.56 and has very low recoil. For home defense an AR in 9mm is fine, I wouldn't want to stand in front of one...

Anyway, not trying to be a jerk, just trying to see where having another gun that is fun to shot is a bad thing.

 

[dhoover1027]

I’ve got two CMMG banshees 5.7x28.
8” and 5” barrel with pistol braces and AR15 lowers.
They use the 32 round magazines sold by CMMG.
I’ve shot both a lot and they are fun, accurate, and the low recoil and weight that I desire.
I just ordered a Gibbz side charging upper and a 8” barrel and BCG from CMMG and will build the rest once I figure out
what I need. Ever since I’ve owned side charging FN SCARs I can’t get the AR15 charging handle to grow on me.
I think it was the M1 (?) that I shot in the Army that started this side charging proclivity.
Both the Banshees I’ve got have been extremely reliable and I’ve shot both suppressed.
YMMV.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Why did they ditch them? After Shooting one I was thinking about giving up beer and stuff to try to get one...
I want to say I read somewhere that the PCC class in USPSA was now dominated by the MPX.
Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to see where you and the guys that ditched them are coming from.

Parts wear/breakage, Sig being Sig with constant new generations while stopping support of older ones, need for very regular and thorough cleaning, I heard the word "finicky" a lot but can't tell you what that means exactly.
They all loved them for the first 15-20k rounds and couldn't keep their panties dry talking about them. Then they got quieter. Then they got new guns.
They are soft no doubt, I was pretty amazed the first time I shot one.
Looking at PCC Nats equipment survey, MPX's are not dominating. They are less than half as popular as JP's, which are not half as common as home builds.

 

[ZF-1]

I have a Beretta CX4 and the Ruger PC9.

Both are fun and decently accurate.