Rifle Scopes Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

[stefan73]

What is the benefit between the M1 and M5 turrets?

Does anybody have any experience with the
Leupold Mark 4 ERT 6.5-20X50 FFP?
I know it has a total of 70 moa elevation and windage.

Do you prefer the TMR or Mildot recticle?
Why?

I would like to use this on a tactical .308 build that I would like to start on when I return from Iraq.

I appreciate any and all help with this!!

 

[Lindy]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

The M5 turrets are 0.1 milliradian clicks, to match a reticle graduated in mils.

I would probably prefer the TMR to the mildot, simply because the TMR has small hashmarks at the half-way point between the hash marks which are 1 mil apart. That makes holds a bit more precise, and Leupold cannot put those marks in a mildot reticle.

 

[stefan73]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

Shukran aka Thank you very much for that info!

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

I just wonder if we are going to be able to exchange our M1 dials for the M5's? I have seen a lot written on the subject but nothing definitive.

I have both reticules and I prefer the TMR as it is easier to figure the fine increments for distance judging.

 

[stefan73]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

That is what most of the shooters I have talked to said. I think I will go TMR and am seriously thinking about going with the M5 Turrets.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

I wrote this in another thread of the same subject so I will put in both places.

I wrote Leupold and this is what they said;

"Currently this retrofit is not available. We have just released the MIL adjustment system into our Mark 4 line for the 2010 year. Because of this retrofits will not be available until 2011."

 

[HD1911]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

Just placed my order today with Chris from SWFA for a Mark 4 ER/T 4.5-14x50 FFP with M5 knobs. Can't wait to get it

 

[Derek Myers]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

I also like the TMR and I like the M3 knobs......I like the TMR for precise ranging but I have spent so much time shooting MOA's I plan on staying that way at least for awhile. I however shoot the 3.5-10 M3 in FFP........I'm sure you see alot of those in the Sand box. I wonder if Leupold can take one of their higher mag scopes that come with M1 knobs and put on M3 or even M2 knobs. I know its not a bulleys shooter but I like the 1 turn knob and courser adjustments of the M3, I think its better for combat or combat like shooting/training.........my HO.

Derek

 

[Lindy]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

I has a FFP 3.5-10X40M1. I almost never used it other than at 10 power, and when I did, I just held off relative to the size of the target rather than trying to use the reticle.

So, if I wanted another scope in that power range, I wouldn't spend the extra money to get it in FFP.

 

[Trovan]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

Are the reticles on these Mark 4 ER/T's Illuminated?

 

[stefan73]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

I haven't seen any of the ones with M5 turrets on them illuminated. It'll probably be just a matter of time before the illuminated recticle comes out.

I have seen some of these with the M1 turrets for sale that are illuminated.

 

[Trovan]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

Thanks. Didn't see it in the description but I am surprised that they aren't. I shouldn't be surprised. It seems Leupold just doesn't want to make something that everyone wants.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

Leupold's primary market is hunters. They've had to be dragged, kicking and screaming every step of the way, and denying that there was a market, into the tactical world. For example, Premier Reticles for a decade or more made their primary business putting FFP reticles in Leupold scopes, because Leupold wouldn't.

As a result, they are way behind the curve and trying to catch up to the competition.

Competition is good. It corrects the direction of the slower players - or kills them off.

 

[HD1911]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

So Lindy, are you not a fan of Leupold overall? Is there anything positive to be said about the Mark 4 line?

thanks

 

[Lindy]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

Actually, I own 3 Leupold scopes. Two are 6.5-20X50M1, and the other is a 3.5-14X50M1, all of which have Premier Reticles Gen II mildot reticles in the first focal plane. But I own them because of the Premier reticles.

(And before someone asks, none are for sale.)

Unless Leupold improves their quality, catches up to some of the competition, and lowers their prices, it's questionable if I'll ever own another Leupold, though.

Leupold makes no scope which competes in features, reliability, or ruggedness with the Nightforce F1 3-15X50 with a FFP illuminated reticle, zero stop, and 0.1 mil turrets, at any price, for example, and that's what's on my primary rifle.

If Leupold wants my money, they're going to have to work hard to catch up. Maybe they will.

 

[HD1911]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

The new FFP Mark4 with M5 knows is a huge step in the right direction then, no?

Are zero-stops really worth it? And is illumination used only in conjuction with a NVD or does it actually contrast the reticle against target without affecting your lowlight vision/sensitivity?

*coming from a newbie

 

[Lindy]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

A zero stop allows you to return to zero in the dark. That's very useful to people who operate in the dark. Doesn't matter to square-range competitors or hunters.

If you have a NV device like the AN/PVS 22, 26, or 27, you don't need an illuminated reticle. However, L.E. SWAT often doesn't have that kind of gear and needs the illuminated reticle.

The point is, though, that those are all desireable things in a tactical scope, and Leupold doesn't make one with those features.

They do make scopes with illuminated reticles, but those are SFP scopes. The illumination turret is at the back of the scope, therefore, and would have to be up in the middle for a FFP reticle, involving a redesign of the scopes.

They're just way behind. Playing catchup is not a good way for a company to operate. Once you lose market share and people turn to another company's product, they often never come back.

 

[HD1911]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

makes sense.

thanks for your contribution.

 

[jackh]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

im doing some research on these ER/T's with M5 knobs.

im primarily a hunter but shoot steel and milk jugs from way off for shits n giggles. i dont ever shoot at night unless im calling coyotes, in which case i have spotlights. therefore, zero stop and illumination are not really needed for me. i do however want a ffp mil/mil scope in about this power range. i have been quoted around $1400 for a brand new one of these. i dont think that can be beat for this price range. is there a better NF choice with these options in this price?

 

[edward r homeyer]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

M5 is .1 mil elevation with a locking turret, The windage is .1 and the turret is capped. Parallax is crisp and clean. Mine has a H58 horus reticle. It is mounted on my XM2010 .300 win. I have only shot it at 12" plates out to 800 meters, but I tested the tracking and it is on the money. I like it and will be keeping mine.

 

[CST]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

J.J. put some pics up of youre setup!!would be cool to see

 

[edward r homeyer]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

Have to be around sunday, I lock it up at work

 

[TresMon]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold's primary market is hunters. They've had to be dragged, kicking and screaming every step of the way, and denying that there was a market, into the tactical world. For example, Premier Reticles for a decade or more made their primary business putting FFP reticles in Leupold scopes, because Leupold wouldn't.

As a result, they are way behind the curve and trying to catch up to the competition.

Competition is good. It corrects the direction of the slower players - or kills them off.
</div></div>

Standing ovation!!!!!!!! I got my first Premier Leupy retro'd with a wire mil ret when I was but a young lad. Leupold is even slower than the wheels of justice.

 

[Jon A]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.J. McQuade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M5 is .1 mil elevation with a locking turret, The windage is .1 and the turret is capped. </div></div>
I don't think you're talking about the same scope he is. He isn't talking about the 34mm $3000 one. The knobs he is talking about look like this:

(Thanks to Storm Tactical for posting that pic earlier.)

Anyway, my opinion on it as a fellow hunter who can stretch the range if need be is you could certainly do worse than that scope but I don't think I could bring myself to spend that much money on it. The TMR is nice but it's pretty thin if you do much low light hunting and could really use some illumination. If you get the 40% discount, it's reasonable. But for that price I'd want more.

If you can't spend any more, I'd wait a couple more months for a PST or use a Bushnell or Weaver for the time being. If you can spend a bit more, a Razor, F1, or IOR 3.5-18 are a lot more scope for the money.

 

[edward r homeyer]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

my elevation turret has a push button on top, and the windage has a cap over the turret. Pics to follow in a few days.

 

[jackh]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

i was dead set on a pst but ive since read that they are really not all that great. got some cool bells and whistles but ive heard the glass is not that great.

 

[hank440]

Re: Leupold M1 vs M5 turrets? Mark4 ERT 6.5-20X50?

J.J. has the 34mm tube version that's $3k

http://swfa.com/Leupold-65-20x50-Mark-4-ERT-34mm-Riflescope-P48099.aspx