Rifle Scopes Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

[Semper Jealous]

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum and with a tax return will be new to the rifle arena. Planning on a Rem 700 SPS Tactical .308 to start with and am torn between two Leupold scopes (both RFP). My shooting setting will initially be with targets to 800m, but if I acquire enough skill it could be used for work/tactical scenarios (100m or less) if I get assigned to such a unit. I would like the scope to be compatible for both. I'm torn between the two magnifications above and would appreciate all advice/opinions either way. These optics are almost twice the cost of my gun so I want to make the best choice I can being new to this game. I've read a bit on this already and there seem to be two camps: (1) Get as much magnification as you can, or (2) Don't go higher than 10 because of mirage or limited field of view. I've shot with my brother who has a 4.4-14, and I found it was hard to find targets and that the eye relief was tight on full magnification. Also, his 50mm objective was mounted on medium rings and I felt I had to crush my cheek just to get low enough to see something besides black. Maybe it's because I don't know WTF I'm doing, but I'm wondering if 10x magnification would be good enough out to 800m (given that that appears to be the max effective range of the rifle in question) and solve some of the things I struggled with? Or, is it better to get the 14x and count on the fact that it will get easier with dedicated practice? Thanks ahead of time for any advice on buying my new kit.

Cheers.

 

[USACS]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

10x is more than sufficient for 1000yds of shooting. However, at longer ranges you'll really appreciate having more magnification to hit your targets. This is especially important if you use smaller targets.
There's a minor difference between 3.5x and 4.5x, but there's a significant difference between 10x and 14x. It's better to have higher magnification and not need it than to need it and not have it. We have 6 snipers on our SERT team. 5 have Mark4 4.5-14x50 M1 scopes. One has the 3.5-10x40mm. The one with the 3.5-10x40 desperately wants to upgrade to the 4.5-14x50. For short range engagements, the 3.5x lower end is certainly an advantage, but for most situations, it's not big enough of an advantage to lose 4x on the top end, IMO.

You might also try to look at other options on the market that will meet your goals. The Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 MOA/MIL, or the new 3-15x50 FFP illuminated MIL/MIL, or the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

I have owned and used the 3.5-10x, 4.5-14x and 6.5-20x in the mil-dot and/or TMR configuration. All worked well on the range. If mirage or limited field of view was a problem I just dialed down until I had the view as I needed it. Only the 6.5-20 gave me problems. Because of where it was being used SOME of the time, 6.5 was to much power. In a range atmosphere that was never a problem, in the hunting fields it was a problem due to the heavy woods/brush that I sometimes find myself. I’ve never be unhappy with the other two.

If I HAD to choose between the two I would pick the 4.5-14x ever time. It offers 4x more when it is needed and I don’t miss the 1 lower power even when following moving game/targets. On scope height, that is controlled, not by the scope but the rings and/or stock (adj cheek piece if it has one). Everyone is a little different size and shape. It sounds like I am your opposite, medium rings tend to be on the high side for me... If you find you’re too high on the scope just move up in ring height.

When shooting out long, I only find my 10x lacking when aiming in on targets that are the same size and my cross hair thickness. 6-8 inch target can be a challenge at 1000 yards but 10-12 inch are not a problem. So it will depend on what you are aiming at.

My cameras not the best but this may help. Targets are left to right at 1000; 36", 24", 12" on the other side of the wall a life size prairie dog and IPSC target. Sorry, don’t have any through the 4.5-14x

SFP 3.5-10x40 at 10x

SFP @ 8x

If you’re LE, FWIW, I had a talk with my Department's marksmen/sniper a few years ago when we were training up for an upcoming local LE SWAT match and the subject turned to optics. He uses an older 1" tube Leupold mil-dot 3.5-10x and wished it had a higher top end because he wanted more target detail and less distractions. Limited field of view wasn't discussed... So I guess it all depends on what you’re calling "work/tactical scenarios (100m or less)" and your own personal preferences. There will always be a better option for a specific mission, but I believe you will be good to go with either of the optics you are looking at for general purpose/most of the time scenarios.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

Also, as an aside, you will want to put that tactical into another stock. It’s good enough for 100 yards but further out you will run into issues with the stock contacting the barrel when using a bipod or resting it on the forearm.

Do a search on “tactical” here; much has been asked and answered. It is a very popular rifle.

 

[Semper Jealous]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

Gentlemen,

I was on the cliff about the 4.5-14x, and both of you pushed me over. For this I thank you. It sounds like neither the 10x nor the 14x would be a bad choice, but the 14x is the best choice and the most flexible in the ways you want a scope to be. I'm glad to know that the only SERT guy regretting his choice was the guy who owned the 10x. Niles, the pictures were very helpful. I could see how the extra 4 over 10x would help at long distances. Also, I'm in agreement about the stock. Wasn't too happy when I held the stock at the gun store. Once I'm good enough to deserve a new stock I've got my heart set on a McMillan A4.

Cheers.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

I have used both the 3.5-10x40 MK4 and the 4.5-14x50 MK4 on my issued rifles and can tell you I like the 4.5-14x50 WAY BETTER.

In fact, I liked it so much I have two of my own on my personal rifles.

 

[ccoker]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

I have been testing the 4.5-14.5 x 50 FFP TMR
it's a very nice scope

 

[BCP]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

Hopefully you're getting a discount because you're LEO, if not check out nightforce offerings. Nightforce are MAP priced but some dealers will help you out on the price a little bit if you are mil or leo so it's worth it to shop around. Most of the mark4 4-14's I've looked at have been 12-1400$ which isn't that far from a SFP Nightforce 3-15.

FWIW I have a leupie 4-14x50 mk4 and it's a decent scope.

 

[Drifter™]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

I suggest getting M5 turrents (mil).

 

[ccoker]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

agree on the M5 knobs 100%

 

[Semper Jealous]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

Yes, the armorer is going to get me a discount through Brownells. Ccoker, that FFP is another thing that hangs me up. How are your tests coming? I know the RFP FFP discussion is a whole different thing. Yet, it would be interesting to hear a comparison of the 4.5-14x both RFP and FFP.

 

[ccoker]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

for what I was planning on using it for, long range steel and perhaps some +250 yard hunting I hands down preferred FFP and the matching M5 turret

for closer range and at lower power, there really isn't a need per se as I would just use the center crosshair and wouldn't need the hashmarks for holdover. (say under 250 yards)

at lower magnifications the hash marks become hard to see which probably isn't a real issue because you wouldn't need them.

I initially set a 100 yard zero but plan to set to a 200 yard zero give or take dependant upon how I can get the hash marks to line up with varying yardages with my 308.

 

[Semper Jealous]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

Well in Ccoker, I appreciate the detailed feedback on that scope. I may have to reconsider the m5 vs. m1 adjustments based on your feedback and that of others above.

 

[ccoker]

Re: Leupy MkIV 3.5-10x 40mm TMR vs. 4.5-14x50mm TMR

matching turret to reticle is such a "why the F would they do it any other way" type of thing