Level Indicators - Any recommendations?

[sandwalk3r]

It's been a while since I have been on here, but my new .308 Stalker Gen2 RPA from Drake Associates is shipping this week, so I'm about to be able to start piecing together a full kit again.

I was wondering about opinions regarding level indicators. I had a Vortex scope on my previous bolt gun and used their ring-mounted bubble level on the scope. While it was fine for the money, I definitely want something better.

Reviews of both the fixed and swivel rail-mounted level indicators from US Optics seem to be mixed (at least on Midway USA), in that the accuracy of the level was pretty iffy.

Accuracy 1st looks awesome, though it's only for 30 or 34mm tubes (bad if it's a Vortex HD).

Since I've been off the gear scene for a while, I would appreciate any recommendations or reviews for the above products or any that I have missed anywhere. I like the idea of it being rail-mounted, but I'm not set on it.

Now to lament at how all the best reticle options are in MIL ;(

 

[Hairball]

I use these for the most part: Horus Vision

And I also have a small level on the Spuhr mounts but with my old eyes the other one works better for me

 

[2_many_dogs]

Flatline Ops has various sizes of Acculevel. I like the one I have as there is a fine adjustment for both the deployed and low-drag positions which makes setting up painless. Mounts to the tube body.

 

[Hammertime]

SWFA just came out with a new one.
SWFA SS-TAC 30mm Bubble Level With 1" Inserts

 

[Playerz1337]

If you're on a budget, SWFA or Vortex. ($40 / $35).

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

I did a writeup of my experiences during my build at http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-w-bushnell-hdmr-h59-reticle-impressions.html

First, I've become a big fan of my Horus reticle, especially on a semi-auto. Next, I leveled my optic with Applied Ballistics 100 yard tall-target test and a Flatline Ops Recon. The reason I chose that was because of the design simplicity; sometimes less is more. It's an extremely solid product, easy to see, and could be mounted on either side of the glass.

 

[deadnbrkn84]

I have one of the 35mm Flateline Ops ones for sale. It's as nice as they come, and mine is the whole package with the cosign indicator as well. I just sold a scope so I don't need an extra one of these floating around.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/options-accessories-sale/218780-flatline-ops-35mm-articulating-level-arm-aci-etc.html

 

[jdgray]

Mounting Solutions Plus Anti-Cant Device 30mm Matte

These no frills levels work for me... I do like the one in post #2

 

[Layton]

The USO Rail mount level is for the most part useless. They look cool though.

L

 

[ZiaHunter]

The Accuracy 1st level is well made and accurate and have them mounted on two rifles. They use inserts and will fit from 1" to 34mm tubes.

 

[Ultraman550]

Holland Bubble Level

 

[AKONA]

Badger, SWFA, horus, Weaver depending on how Mr. Master Card feels that day. They all work.

Someone on a really really tight budget get one of those tiny $1 keychain astronomers units at the local hardware Ace store, cut the plastic link and epoxy that
to a inexpensive aluminum ring. Then when you have your laser and plum you can fine tune when leveling your scope/stadia.

Hot Barrel Mount 30 25 4mm 1"Ring Scope Weaver Picatinny Rail 20mm Adapter C1 | eBay

Keychain Level Compact | eBay

That will give you a nice "LOL" level that actually works. My son made his own for his new 6x45 rifle.

 

[mkollman74]

Flatline Ops for me...

 

[jkonzal]

I like the Holland Signature Series.

 

[sandwalk3r]

Thanks everyone. I think the flatline ops package looks pretty solid, especially with the strong arm and ACI option.

A question I have: do the bubbles in your levels ever get messed up by recoil? My Vortex level always split up and forced me to shake my R700 until it became one bubble again.

That makes the Accuracy 1st look good w/a ceramic bubble, but not sure I'll end up w/a scope that will fit.

 

[2_many_dogs]

Thanks everyone. I think the flatline ops package looks pretty solid, especially with the strong arm and ACI option.

A question I have: do the bubbles in your levels ever get messed up by recoil? My Vortex level always split up and forced me to shake my R700 until it became one bubble again.

That makes the Accuracy 1st look good w/a ceramic bubble, but not sure I'll end up w/a scope that will fit.

Never had an issue with the bubble under recoil.

 

[sib1948]

For my 35mm Vortex Razor HD 5-20X I use the Suphr mount with built in level. All my other ELR rifles and scopes are adorned with the Accuracy 1st levels. Accurate and can't be beat! Nuff said.

 

[William_LXIX]

I have a USO Anti-Cant I picked up here in the Post Exchange.

While mounting & leveling my scope I used a back-up: Cross Check Level

Bought that thing for $0.79 popped out both levels, used one on top of the top knob and other silicone into place on the back of the rail.

Worked so good I am going to leave it and see how long the one silicone on the back of the rail lasts.

Cheap, works, easy to see and if it comes loose or goes MIA I still have the USO on the front bolted on as a back up.

~Will

 

[Cproflow]

Love my Accuracy 1st level. Sounds like it might be a no-go for a 35mm tube though.
I use the Accuracy 1st level even though I have the built-in bubble with the Spuhr mount. That thing is just too close to my eyes to see! I have my Accuracy 1st levelout as far as the last mm before the tube bells out to the objective!

 

[jbell]

Strange to hear the likes for the accuracy 1ST. First off I have nothing against the company by any means. However with that being said I am not a fan of the level they offer. Just by design the ball is going to want to stay at the lowest point which is a good way of keeping the ball from having to settle or roll out of place. But also by design it seems to have enough drag in the curve that the ball doesn't "track" very well or fast. I have owned 2 of them and sent one back because it was slow to react to cant and also just plain hang up in position even with a noticeable cant in the rifle. If you are in position and very slowly cant the rifle while watching the ball you will see that it will stay in place for several degrees of actual cant. I have had the Accuracy 1ST and a conventional bubble level on the scope at the same time and have been able to keep the ball centered and the bubble all the way to one side. This is a real problem when shooting at distance. I shoot a TRG with the factory bipod so it is very easy to just slightly cant the rifle with no effort so this may make the problem more obvious.

I would like to hear form those of you who shoot them and if I am just crazy or not...

 

[glockaholic]

David Tubb makes one that is not expensive. Seems to work fine for me.

 

[ZiaHunter]

Jbell:

I have two Accuracy 1st levels mounted on rifles and have not experienced the issues mentioned in your post. Both have tracked very well and have checked against bubble levels.

 

[jbell]

Cool, but have you tried canting the rifle very slowly while watching the ball? Just curious not disagreeing...

 

[Deadshot2]

I use these for the most part: Horus Vision

And I also have a small level on the Spuhr mounts but with my old eyes the other one works better for me

Another fan of Hours Vision's ASLI here. I've tried the US Optics (folding level) and the Vortex, but they've now been relegated to "Other Rifles". The Horus does it all for me.

 

[Cproflow]

jbell--I tried it with mine, and just don't see it in a meaningful way. I had the Spuhr bubble mount to track against, and they seemed to move close to equal when canted. By equal, I mean sensitivity to the cant.
Inherently though, there is a difference between a bubble moving though a liquid vs. a solid object affected by both gravity and friction. In practice though, I'm not convinced this would translate into an issue, especially after you set up and settle in to your shot.
The robustness & build quality, simplicity in centering, mounting flexibility, multiple graduations, and high visibility (even a tritium ability...if you needed that, I don't) make the Accuracy 1st a solid choice.

I wonder if some surface imperfections in the ceramic ball on the unit you had was a bit more 'grabby'? Maybe just a bad unit?

Someone else mention the Tubbs level. I have heard good things about that as well. The price isn't too bad either. I'm thinking about giving that a try for my .223 Tikka.

 

[VTSEAL]

I haven't had any problems with the Vortex, but not using them on anything with more recoil that 300 WM.

 

[louboyd]

Related to this thread, where do you mount your level and how do look at it while you're shooting? It seems to me a level is only useful if I can see it just before pulling the trigger without taking my eye off of the target being observed through the rifle scope. With a typical scope there's no place to mount the level where it can be seen with the shooting eye without taking it off the target though some scopes with internal levels allow that.

I've found that mounting an offset level at the 10 oclock position just behind the scope bell on the scope tube allows me to see it with my left eye while aiming with mi right eye. There it's also far enough from my left eye to bring the level vial into decent focus. I use inexpensive Sinclair levels which are available in 25.4 and 30mm size for mounting to scope tubes. Rail mount levels could probably work too if the rails extend far enough forward.

 

[jbell]

Cproflow - I had two that did the same thing. I do like the concept and design of it but couldn't get past the ball hanging up. Oh well, maybe I am just a picky bitch. haha

louboyd - I like a scope tube mounted level the best, mounted where you can see it from your shooting position but not blocking either turret. I usually put mine just behind the parallax knob (right handed shooter) with plenty of space so it don't get in the way of adjust the parallax. I don't look at the indicators on the parallax knob when adjusting it so that don't matter. I like the scope mounted style so if when holding level the scope don't track perfectly straight up instead of repositioning the scope in relation to the rifle I adjust the level until the scope tracks straight up. But with that being said if when the rifle is level based on the bubble and also tracks straight up when adjusted but looks canted in relation to the rifle Ill adjust the scope and then reset the level for the scope to track true.

 

[w6zip]

I second ZiaHunter on the Accuracy First. The design and ability to add a tritium vial to the level is worth it- Buy Once, Cry Once!

 

[DrewinTejas]

JEC level. I just got one on my rifle it is great. jeccustoms.com

 

[secondofangle]

Never had an issue with the bubble under recoil.

My McMillan tac-50 Birkenhead my vortex twice. Had to keep super glueing the level in the mount. Finally gave it away to someone with a smaller rifle

 

[secondofangle]

Broke, sorry iPad sucks

ETA this is what I use (MSP Anti-cant device) and I just got one today from an ebay seller who undercuts EVERYBODY on price AND charges only $3 for shipping. I had mine USPS in less than 72 hours for under $30.

Anti Cant Device Level for 34mm Scope Tube Black | eBay

It weighs grams and is solid on any platform I have used it on, and it is visible from the shooting position when mounted on the scope tube AND it's MADE IN USA.

 

[Deadshot2]

Broke, sorry iPad sucks

ETA this is what I use (MSP Anti-cant device) and I just got one today from an ebay seller who undercuts EVERYBODY on price AND charges only $3 for shipping. I had mine USPS in less than 72 hours for under $30.

Anti Cant Device Level for 34mm Scope Tube Black | eBay

It weighs grams and is solid on any platform I have used it on, and it is visible from the shooting position when mounted on the scope tube AND it's MADE IN USA.

Would be even lighter if it was incorporated into the top half of a scope ring Also guaranteed to be aligned with the rifle for level rather than having to move it around the tube.

 

[secondofangle]

Doesn't work with Spuhr and limits where you can locate it along the length of the scope

 

[LawnMM]

Buy something that you can mount like a scope ring so you can calibrate it. I've used the rail mount version of the USO and its not optimal. You can't calibrate it so if its off a bit then its useless because you can't recalibrate it. I've used the Vortex levels, they are built like a tank, I think something like the Holland would be a little lighter and less huge. You can use a mount with a built in level like a Spuhr or Aadland but keep in mind those have the same shortfalls as the USO, if they're off, you can't fix it, you're stuck.

The ring mount approach is better, that way you can cant the rifle and get it good and comfortable and then zero the scope and reticle with the fall of gravity.

 

[KillShot]

Another vote for Flatline Ops

 

[sandwalk3r]

Glad to see all the input here.

I definitely agree that scope-mounted is better than rail-mounted. Either way, the more care and effort you out into precisely aligning the bubbles, the more you will get out of it.

Has anyone else had problems with the bubble splitting into 2 or more bubbles as I have had with my voretex level?

 

[Mikee36]

Has anyone ever found anything that mounts to a 40mm scope tube? Right now I've got the USO rail mounted one but wish like hell I could put a flatline ops on it.

 

[Deadshot2]

Has anyone ever found anything that mounts to a 40mm scope tube? Right now I've got the USO rail mounted one but wish like hell I could put a flatline ops on it.

Take a look at the Horus Vision (and others) where the level is incorporated into a cosine indicator housing. Most of those have a dovetail base that will fit into the bottom of a simple scope ring. The Horus Vision ASLI can be installed with the anti-cant level on top or bottom with no adverse effect on either level or Cosine indicator.

Just one possibility.

If you're adept at building your own "solutions", one could always find a nice small level tube like used on many anti-can't levels and make your own "top ring mount" by using Devcon putty. Clean off the top of the scope ring, perhaps by adding a small v-groove or flat, bed the level in place, and then shape after cured with a Dremel. Apply some Duracoat, Brownell's Aluma-Hyde, or just camo paint to match the rest of your theme. Devcon is pretty darn durable when fully cured and won't come loose if you prep the surface properly.

I made one several years ago with a level vial salvaged off a piece of wheel alignment equipment. It all depends on how much you trust your skills to keep something like this from looking too much like something from the hills of Arkansas or the swamps of Louisiana.

 

[Huckleberry75]

David Tubb makes one that is not expensive. Seems to work fine for me.

I got a Tubb level on a scope I bought here in the pX. Liked it so much, that I orderd one for all of my scopes. They are light, rugged and sensitive.

 

[Grizzdude]

Just picked up 2 of the Accuracy 1st scope levels and wow these things are sensitive! I just installed one on my rifle this morning and that thing is looking sweet! No hang up what so ever, smooth and accurate. I can't wait to shoot with it!

 

[WaltHer]

It's $$$, but the Spuhr mount with integrated level and scope indexing system can't be beat.

 

[calshipbuilder]

Holland has a decent light weight level, but I prefer my flatline ops top for Mark 4 rings- very solid and perfectly placed. If I keep both eyes open, the level appears to float transparently inside the scope