Liberty Optics Still Legit?

Was Liberty Optics collecting tax in states where there is a sales tax? If not, that could be one of the reasons he performed his vanishing act. Once you hit a minimum sales amount, which varies by state, you have to collect and report those figures. The back payments and penalties on that alone would crush a small business.
 
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I didn’t get out my calendar and calculator, but I do believe that’s a lot less than 90 days.

This just further suggest he was using customers money for months.
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Package has arrived - 10/19/2023 02:09 PM

Much love and appreciation to the crew at Vortex Optics (Shamus, Morgan, Scott, and everyone else involved) who have gone above and beyond when they certainly did not have to. Truly, a shining light.
 
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Package has arrived - 10/19/2023 02:09 PM

Much love and appreciation to the crew at Vortex Optics (Shamus, Morgan, Scott, and everyone else involved) who have gone above and beyond when they certainly did not have to. Truly, a shining light.

Envintos,
We cant thank you enough for being patient/understanding and allowing us an opportunity to serve and get you taken care of.

Everyone,
Sincerely, we appreciate each and everyone of you for giving us the opportunity to try and help in this very odd situation.


Thank you,
Scott Parks
 
Envintos,
We cant thank you enough for being patient/understanding and allowing us an opportunity to serve and get you taken care of.

Everyone,
Sincerely, we appreciate each and everyone of you for giving us the opportunity to try and help in this very odd situation.


Thank you,
Scott Parks
You guys are outstanding for doing this. I do believe you have earned more customers for what you just did!
 
Envintos,
We cant thank you enough for being patient/understanding and allowing us an opportunity to serve and get you taken care of.

Everyone,
Sincerely, we appreciate each and everyone of you for giving us the opportunity to try and help in this very odd situation.


Thank you,
Scott Parks
You guys might not see it or realize it now, but you are creating ALOT of lifetime customers. Hats off to vortex!
 
Vortex is going above and beyond. CC company angle will fix some issues as well. All to the good.


Expecting help from the LE side is not going to happen. Even if they choose to act, which is unlikely, nothing will be recovered for the victims.
 
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Vortex customer service has always been great and something people made fun of on this site and others but now seeing it in actual use hopefully can help wake up some of the haters as to what kind of a company they are.
If this was a Quigley-Ford scope scandal…<shudder>


Lol I think we all needed a moment of levity…

I’m here all week folks!
 
I guess getting scammed out of $3k is as good of reason as any for a first post...
Does anyone know if we all pooled together and filed one large class action type of complaint with the Consumer Protection Office and/or local LE, if it would have a better chance of actually getting some sort or traction/response? I'm not sure if they automatically compile all the reports against one company/individual or not. Maybe seeing an individual report of 3k as opposed to a group of xx(x) being harmed for a substantially greater overall loss would make a difference?
 
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Vortex customer service has always been great and something people made fun of on this site and others but now seeing it in actual use hopefully can help wake up some of the haters as to what kind of a company they are.

This is more than just good customer service.
In this whole clusterfuck, Vortex did not owe anyone anything. They did nothing wrong.
The fact that they are stepping up and helping people out even in these circumstances speaks volumes about Vortex' company values.

ILya
 
This is more than just good customer service.
In this whole clusterfuck, Vortex did not owe anyone anything. They did nothing wrong.
The fact that they are stepping up and helping people out even in these circumstances speaks volumes about Vortex' company values.

ILya

Exactly. I said that a few times when someone in another thread was saying that Vortex should refund people money who bought from other vendors. No that’s not a joke. Yeah this shows that Vortex from the top down cares about their customers. That is customer service as a benchmark and not just a punchline.
 
I guess getting scammed out of $3k is as good of reason as any for a first post...
Does anyone know if we all pooled together and filed one large class action type of complaint with the Consumer Protection Office and/or local LE, if it would have a better chance of actually getting some sort or traction/response? I'm not sure if they automatically compile all the reports against one company/individual or not. Maybe seeing an individual report of 3k as opposed to a group of xx(x) being harmed for a substantially greater overall loss would make a difference?

Welcome, and I’m glad you’re posting (sorry it’s about this).

No, that will no help.

LE Will definitely be on this and nothing can be done at this point to escalate their response.

Class action suits suck for everyone but the lawyers. Don’t pursue that.

Ive been here (not involved with this one). Odds are low of any recovery from the suspect. The money is already spent 😕
 
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The Theis situation is what came to mind for me too, but with Theis it certainly felt like it was the "long con" from the beginning, but with Scott, offering well over a decade of legit business with nothing but stellar experiences does not feel like "long con" to me; however, in lieu of the stages involved and the closure of the LLC etc. it seems like something has happened. At this time nobody knows what has happened or why, so I agree that the best course of action would be to try to get your credit card company involved for refunds.
I remember Theis, but don't know what the name of his company was or what he was "selling"... What happened in that situation? I guess I missed all that drama...
 
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I missed the Theis drama, but I was around for the HD Rifles / Jeff Hicks stuff.
I don't even know about that... I try to only buy and deal with reputable actual dealers like Midway, EuroOptic, Midsouth, Brownells, Primary Arms, etc... The odds of having something like this happen is very slim that way.

The only issue I'm having right now is with Polymer80... I ordered a slide and barrel in June and it said 2-4 week lead, and I still haven't seen the damn thing, nor has it shown as shipped in my orders. I reached out several times, got 1 guy ONCE, after that, crickets... Finally got someone on their IG page to respond, through DM I explained what happened, then emailed them for a case number, and got that a couple weeks ago, and once again... Fucking crickets... I'll never deal with them again after this shit.
 
I guess getting scammed out of $3k is as good of reason as any for a first post...
Does anyone know if we all pooled together and filed one large class action type of complaint with the Consumer Protection Office and/or local LE, if it would have a better chance of actually getting some sort or traction/response? I'm not sure if they automatically compile all the reports against one company/individual or not. Maybe seeing an individual report of 3k as opposed to a group of xx(x) being harmed for a substantially greater overall loss would make a difference?
I wouldn't count on it. Did you already talk to your bank or CC company about a chargeback? Consumer protection is a joke...it's not like he is staying in business. Going to the states attorney who can do MT investigations and/or the sheriff dept is your best bet. Once they get enough statements then can figure out what to charge him with and atleast get it in the various databases of he did go MIA. He moat likely broke a number of federal laws but good luck getting those worthless fucks to do anything unless you got dirt on Trump or have info on how to help them protect child molesters and terrorists.

I'm going to wait to see if USAA gives me my money back before deciding how much time and effort and money I'm going to put into destroying someone's will to live.
 
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I will add myself to the list of shocked people. Been dealing with Scott since before the move to MT. Talked on the phone multiple times.

I bought a G3 earlier this year and it arrived more or less when promised. Previously bought a Leupy and it was a good transaction.

I'm with the something must have really gone sideways crowd -
 
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Just an FYI post from experience on the LE side.

What will happen if this is enough to make their radar (depends how busy the agency(s)/dept(s) are, and how big a fish this seems in relation to their current workload).......

There will be a longer than anyone wants investigation. This stuff is cut and dry to anyone on the outside looking in, but you have to have very good/specific evidence when this goes to the prosecutor. Otherwise the defense attorney will just advise client to plead not guilty and take a soft/weak case to a jury.

So, the investigations almost always take much longer than the public thinks it should.

Sometimes they can only prove beyond a reasonable doubt part of the offenses/fraud. The whole "its not what you know, its what you can prove" is in effect. For example, its not unheard of for people who scammed $50k or $100k to get charged with something like $10k as that's what authorities could prove without taking and even longer amount of time to get the proof for the rest of it.


Once charged, then there is the whole balancing act of punishment vs restitution. In fraud cases, the victims are many times regular hard working people that could use that money back.

Throwing someone in jail is how you 1000% guarantee zero victims recoup any monies while the offender is serving time. And many times, once they have done jail time, they will not be as motivated to pay things back once they are released.

So, if there is a decent chance of victims receiving restitution in a timely manner, deals will be cut that avoid jail (and sometimes avoid felony convictions) as long as they stick to a scheduled payment. And even then, when they fall behind, authorities are a bit lenient if they feel they will get back on track with payments. So they don't just toss them in jail immediately after they default.



The TLDR:

The investigations always take a while. And the outcome is never ideal. You generally end up either with them going to jail and victims never paid back, or they pay back slowly and don't go to jail.

And that outcome never makes everyone happy. As the ideal situation would be to recover the money AND they serve time. But in real life, it's usually never both. Authorities usually have to pick one. Punishment or restitution.



Point being.......don't expect the LE response to be as fast as you'd like and don't expect the outcome to be ideal. It just never is in these types of fraud.
 
Just an FYI post from experience on the LE side.

What will happen if this is enough to make their radar (depends how busy the agency(s)/dept(s) are, and how big a fish this seems in relation to their current workload).......

There will be a longer than anyone wants investigation. This stuff is cut and dry to anyone on the outside looking in, but you have to have very good/specific evidence when this goes to the prosecutor. Otherwise the defense attorney will just advise client to plead not guilty and take a soft/weak case to a jury.

So, the investigations almost always take much longer than the public thinks it should.

Sometimes they can only prove beyond a reasonable doubt part of the offenses/fraud. The whole "its not what you know, its what you can prove" is in effect. For example, its not unheard of for people who scammed $50k or $100k to get charged with something like $10k as that's what authorities could prove without taking and even longer amount of time to get the proof for the rest of it.


Once charged, then there is the whole balancing act of punishment vs restitution. In fraud cases, the victims are many times regular hard working people that could use that money back.

Throwing someone in jail is how you 1000% guarantee zero victims recoup any monies while the offender is serving time. And many times, once they have done jail time, they will not be as motivated to pay things back once they are released.

So, if there is a decent chance of victims receiving restitution in a timely manner, deals will be cut that avoid jail (and sometimes avoid felony convictions) as long as they stick to a scheduled payment. And even then, when they fall behind, authorities are a bit lenient if they feel they will get back on track with payments. So they don't just toss them in jail immediately after they default.



The TLDR:

The investigations always take a while. And the outcome is never ideal. You generally end up either with them going to jail and victims never paid back, or they pay back slowly and don't go to jail.

And that outcome never makes everyone happy. As the ideal situation would be to recover the money AND they serve time. But in real life, it's usually never both. Authorities usually have to pick one. Punishment or restitution.



Point being.......don't expect the LE response to be as fast as you'd like and don't expect the outcome to be ideal. It just never is in these types of fraud.
Appreciate you offering some insight from an LE perspective. I’m sure it’s not what any of us want to hear, but still good info to manage expectations to. Just gotta hope CC companies don’t shaft us.
 
Appreciate you offering some insight from an LE perspective. I’m sure it’s not what any of us want to hear, but still good info to manage expectations to. Just gotta hope CC companies don’t shaft us.

This will always be your quickest way to recoup funds. It should also trigger fraud departments at banks and CC companies to contact authorities which will help move that side along.

And then there is the civil remedy. But that takes a while to find the defendant, serve them properly, get to court, get a judgment....and then there is the whole collection side.
 
County attorneys are elected. I’m doubting a single person in that county lost anything.
This is not a “ build your reputation child molester crime” .

By doing nothing the prosecutor loses not a single vote. Zero interest from that arena even if the police would do a report.

“We have real crimes to investigate” which translates to I’m going out for coffee with my secretary, she’s hot.
 
When I order something from Euro Optic that isn't in stock they place the order and I'm not billed until it's ready to ship to me. Thats how it should be done.
Is that recent that you’ve ordered out of stock items from Euro Optic without being charged at the time of order?

Probably three years ago I ordered an out of stock item requiring 20% deposit at time of order. In the last 18 months ordering again an OOS item, Euro Optic’s policy is they now require 100% payment at time of order. Those items were Berger bullets, so nothing unusual. After five plus months of waiting I called, cancelled and was refunded with no issue.
 
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Holy shit. Got a message during deer camp but didn't check my phone until I was on my way home. Done about $10k in the last year or so with Scott and even worse reccomended him to friends.

I did place a Vortex order on July 23 that got fulfilled. Wasn't a g3 though.

Hope enough cc companies got screwed to try and recover their $$$. They at least have enough lawyers to hopefully make it hurt.
 
County attorneys are elected. I’m doubting a single person in that county lost anything.
This is not a “ build your reputation child molester crime” .

By doing nothing the prosecutor loses not a single vote. Zero interest from that arena even if the police would do a report.

“We have real crimes to investigate” which translates to I’m going out for coffee with my secretary, she’s hot.

While there are obviously some out there that fit this description (every profession has bad apples)....the amount of cases presented yearly to prosecuting attorneys is ridiculous. Discretion is mandatory as they wouldn't get anything done if they tried to take every case.

Like most people in every profession, most of them want to at least do their job fairly well and help people. Unfortunately, there are far, far more people out there doing terrible things than there are LE to do something about it.



A plumber who has weeks of lucrative appointments on the books doesn't pencil in someone who calls with a small leak under their sink. That's the equivalent of hoping LE chooses a case that's far below the severity of what they normally pursue.


Tis all I have to say and won't clog the thread with it anymore.
 

Earlier today the site was back up with the typical graphics but with an "under construction" popup every time you navigated to a new page; however the shopping cart functionality was disabled.

As of right now it just comes up to a blank white page that says "Under Construction!" in text.

Be nice to have the IP logs from his website to see who is performing maintenance on it.

Scott was last signed in here at 9:26 PM PST on Monday, right before all this stuff went down. He still hasn't signed back on with his account, but who knows, he might be browsing but not logged in. Be interesting to see what the typical IP addresses Scott used to sign into his account and if there have been any guests on and browsing SH with those same IP addresses from Tuesday morning on.
 
Curious as to why you would try to smear Vortex when it's clear you all got scammed by a fucking thief.

Are you in on it with him?
Smearing Vortex? I’m actually a huge Vortex supporter, love their product, and customer service. I run largely all Vortex scopes and spotting equipment. Not sure how you took anything I said as a “smear.” Comprehensive reading clearly isn’t your strong suit.
 
Sir,
There is no breakdown that i know of. Scott was close to a two decade customer as well.
Liberty Optics has placed many order since June. He has not paid for the orders, hence why they have not been released.
Please let me know if i can answer any further questions.
Shamus
Thanks Shamus. I have little understanding of how dealer accounts work. My curiosity referred to whether he may have been informed of an outstanding balance that limited his buying power until paid, or whether his dealer account may have been suspended as I understand he had a falling out with other reputable manufacturers. Good on y’all for helping guys out during the fallout.
 
Thanks Shamus. I have little understanding of how dealer accounts work. My curiosity referred to whether he may have been informed of an outstanding balance that limited his buying power until paid, or whether his dealer account may have been suspended as I understand he had a falling out with other reputable manufacturers. Good on y’all for helping guys out during the fallout.
No worries at all my friend. As Shamus said, there was no breakdown or anything like that we are aware of. Liberty was a prepay account, so they(Liberty) literally couldn't get behind with us. Liberty had to physically pay us in full for each order placed or it would not ship. It's just an odd situation for all involved and many questions are still unanswered.


Best Regards
Scott Parks
 
Wow, I am stunned about this situation with Scott at LO. I've never bought anything from him (always used EuroOptic or Sport Optics), but until a week or so ago, I don't recall reading one negative thing about him and his company. I've been a long time user of Vortex products and have many of their products, in fact all of my optics are Vortex (rifle scopes, red dots, spotting scopes, range finder and binos). Huge props to Vortex for helping people out in this shitty situation. I already considered myself a life customer of Vortex and this just solidified my stance. Vortex set the gold standard.
 
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For those who have been to Vortex, you may have seen this in their break area. There should be no doubt that this isn’t just a poster, but a way of operating, based on their actions here. I have a lot of Vortex scopes and have sold off everything else as this is the kind of company I like to support. I have also become good friends with a number of their employees, and they are all wonderful people.
 
So I just checked my invoice from Vortex and one thing I didn’t see mentioned is that not only did they match the price but they also ate the sales to match the price.

Honestly the lengths they have gone to help their customers out through this whole debacle has been fantastic. I would say it made me a convert but 90% of my optics are already Vortex including the binos, spotting scope and 1-10 razor I have in the stand with me this morning.

Coincidentally all of the optics were also purchased through Scott as well.
 
Does anyone have an actual count of how many people didn’t get their scopes?

Found out last night 2 people I referred to Scotts sale (SH members but not frequent visitors here)…1 got their scope which was ordered in late June, 1 did not who ordered mid June. I received mine which was ordered early June. So out of 3 people who ordered in June, only 1 person did not receive their scope.

You’d think if Scott was going all out and headed to Mexico with a boatload of cash, why deliver any scopes at all. Unless he was just trying to keep his credit line open at Vortex by paying for an order here and there along the way.
 
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Does anyone have an actual count of how many people didn’t get their scopes?

Found out last night 2 people I referred to Scotts sale (SH members but not frequent visitors here)…1 got their scope which was ordered in late June, 1 did not who ordered mid June. I received mine which was ordered early June. So out of 3 people who ordered in June, only 1 person did not receive their scope.

You’d think if Scott was going all out and headed to Mexico with a boatload of cash, why deliver any scopes at all. Unless he was just trying to keep his credit line open at Vortex by paying for an order here and there along the way.

You get to drag it out longer and take off with more cash if you make sure some are delivered.

You get to tell customer you're not sure what's up, since so and so got his scope........and so and so verifies the story. So the scam can keep going longer than it would if everyone didn't get anything.