Liberty Optics Still Legit?

Think about it.
The credit card companies have gotten most folks in the USA to be fine with a 3% national sales tax on most things, paid to the biggest banks in the country...

Then have you looked at the interest rates for your credit cards?
There used to be a joke that the mob charged lower interest rates than American Express.
Most folks not making the full payment each month are essentially paying double the sticker price for what they buy, and all that extra money is going back to the banks.

So yes, it's a hugely good business that pays the banks super well.

Yes you do get some "protection" some times like in this case.
But like most other "insurance" in the end the house wins overall and for most people, you have paid out far more in premiums than you get back.

Debt = the modern slavery for a lot of people who don't understand how money works (and strangely enough nobody seems to teach children that important thing in High School).
I’m convinced that mob attorneys found positions for family members in all the big banks back in the 1920s. They were freaking drowning in cash-flow Q1 of 1920 after going into effect on 01 Jan, 1920. Within the first cycle, the street gangsters and old money mobsters who had established themselves in city governments in the 1800s were struggling to find ways to launder their profits.

Russian Jew mobster Mayer Lansky incorporated offshore laundering in Switzerland very early on during Prohibition, because they maxed-out on domestic CONUS laundering mechanisms and business fronts very early due to limited capacity. They had networks of attorneys, bought off all the city councils, police chiefs, Congressfags, Senators, judges, and unions.

It’s why they hated what was happening to banks in the Midwest when nobodies like John Dillinger, Bonnie & Clyde, and Ma Barker’s Gang started playing Robinhood. They especially hated Dillinger because in addition to him enjoying cat and mouse, he would burn mortgage records. The Mafia was already heavily-invested in mortgages, loans, savings accounts, union dues accounts, and business loans by 1934. They were more vulnerable in the banking system than most people due to how much cash they had flowing all those years, then branched out into narcotics. They were already heavily-into prostitution, gambling, racketeering, and murder-for-hire since the 1800s.

Insurance scams and credit were just icing on the cake for them in the finance industry. They basically legitimized in as many ways as possible from all I’ve been able to gather in my personal research since the 1980s into that world.
 
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Admittedly I didn't read every post in this thread but......
I knew Scot was a crook way back in 2009. He did me dirty on a scope purchase. I ended up contacting ATK at the time. ATK made it right and threatened him with pulling his dealer status..
I never mentioned it here because everyone seemed to like him so much and I hoped it was an isolated incident..
I’ve had a similar interaction in years past with a very private business person that is a public darling right now. A leopard die not change its spots.
 
I’ve had a similar interaction in years past with a very private business person that is a public darling right now. A leopard die not change its spots.
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Welp, I just found this.
Was being patient having done business with him before, and knowing he didn't need me pestering with "how much longer."
Wish I'd have ordered a vortex on my cc, rather than a sig on my gift card from work. Still contacting both though.
Between this news, and when I woke up Biden was still President, this day sucks.
 
I’ve had a similar interaction in years past with a very private business person that is a public darling right now. A leopard die not change its spots.
And don't mention any names so everyone else can get screwed over by this same business person while you laugh out loud behind the scenes thank you very much.

I'd personally feel really terrible as a responsible human being if I knew such bad things and didn't sound the alarms to warn everyone and the all of the "potential victims" who weren't "in the know" before they all got potentially screwed over and won't know until after the fact when it's too late.
 
And don't mention any names so everyone else can get screwed over by this same business person while you laugh out loud behind the scenes thank you very much.

I'd personally feel really terrible as a responsible human being if I knew such bad things and didn't sound the alarms to warn everyone and the all of the "potential victims" who weren't "in the know" before they all got potentially screwed over and won't know until after the fact when it's too late.
Calm yourself. You sound young enough to still believe the truth will set you free. Actually, truth can get you canceled or killed. I view myself as a tribal chief merc. My job is to play the game to benefit my tribe. No one gives a fuck about me and mine, so I have to look out for them.

No one would believe me about this guy at this point. They are all in thrall of this reclusive hero with great internet creds. He offers lower prices and a gigantic top tier in stock inventory that no other Canadian business seems able to match. I wonder why?
 
Calm yourself. You sound young enough to still believe the truth will set you free. Actually, truth can get you canceled or killed. I view myself as a tribal chief merc. My job is to play the game to benefit my tribe. No one gives a fuck about me and mine, so I have to look out for them.

No one would believe me about this guy at this point. They are all in thrall of this reclusive hero with great internet creds. He offers lower prices and a gigantic top tier in stock inventory that no other Canadian business seems able to match. I wonder why?

Yeah - Fuck Canada, right ?
 
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Yeah - Fuck Canada, right ?
You are also childish, like the other poster. No one will listen until it’s too late anyway. Case in point, the man who represents you to the world, President Biden. Up here we have Castro’s idiot spawn doing the job. I’m not a Private anymore, rushing into battle to die gloriously for nothing. You can show us how it’s done.
 
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Just because something is open box doesn't mean it's not new... As long as it's never been mounted and demo'd then it's still technically brand new...Just opened packaging. As long as this is the case, and as long as the full new-purchase warranty for said product is still in tact, I'm cool with it. But I agree, that they should at least tell people "New - Other (Open Box)" condition.
More reports of lots of opened scopes this sale cycle from EO.

What's a good reason for breaking the seal on "new" scopes before sending to would-be customers, sir? If it were once, four times, or perhaps half a dozen, sure, mistakes happen. This seems to be SOP at this point from EuroOptics.

Could @Shamus Terry take them out behind the woodshed or at least tell us what is at play here? My money is on selling back-to-stock returns/demos as "new", but I can't prove it. Yet.
 
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More reports of lots of opened scopes this sale cycle from EO.

What's a good reason for breaking the seal on "new" scopes before sending to would-be customers, sir? If it were once, four times, or perhaps half a dozen, sure, mistakes happen. This seems to be SOP at this point from EuroOptics.

Could @Shamus Terry take them out behind the woodshed or at least tell us what is at play here? My money is on selling back-to-stock returns/demos as "new", but I can't prove it. Yet.
Euro is a stand up company. We have worked with them long enough to know they would not knowingly sell anything other than new as new. That being said, I am also confident that if you buy a Vortex product from them and you are not happy with what you received they will swap it out for you if you contact them.

Sincerely
Scott
 
I’ve bought plenty from EO and I have another order on its way to me. I will say that I have received open box items which were sold as new. Let’s see what shows up with my latest order from their sale over the weekend.
 
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Euro is a stand up company. We have worked with them long enough to know they would not knowingly sell anything other than new as new. That being said, I am also confident that if you buy a Vortex product from them and you are not happy with what you received they will swap it out for you if you contact them.

Sincerely
Scott
I hear you...purchased thousands and thousands and thousands and...open box every fucking time, along with more than a dozen others every sale cycle.

Just thought someone could offer a reason; they blow smoke with, whoops, someone grabbed the wrong scope and sent it to you. Shady AF.
 
Euro is a stand up company. We have worked with them long enough to know they would not knowingly sell anything other than new as new. That being said, I am also confident that if you buy a Vortex product from them and you are not happy with what you received they will swap it out for you if you contact them.

Sincerely
Scott
No, they'll offer you $50 to keep it after the sale is over or get bent and ship it back, missing the sale—no swaps for a "new" scope (they have to pawn the used scope off to someone, so can't take it back after a second customer purchased it, I guess). True story, one repeated over and over and over again to Vortex fans.

Thanks nonetheless, sir. I guess it is what it is...but for the awesome Vortex warranty and stand-up CS, we would go elsewhere. Maybe it's time to go back to VIP forms and just wait it out. It's the safer play. :)
 
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That hasn’t happened for a while unless you’re in a lottery state like VA. $125-$150 is current if it’s not a fuck you store. If you don’t want to pay that try Basil Hayden, it’s excellent and not jacked up until John Wick 5 comes out and he sips that instead. The bottle probably isn’t cool enough though.
Thats all its worth imo. Sells for 70 ish around here although scarce at that price.
 
I hear you...purchased thousands and thousands and thousands and...open box every fucking time, along with more than a dozen others every sale cycle.

Just thought someone could offer a reason; they blow smoke with, whoops, someone grabbed the wrong scope and sent it to you. Shady AF.
Scott, is that you? This new burner account is funny. 🤣
 
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You are also childish, like the other poster. No one will listen until it’s too late anyway. Case in point, the man who represents you to the world, President Biden. Up here we have Castro’s idiot spawn doing the job. I’m not a Private anymore, rushing into battle to die gloriously for nothing. You can show us how it’s done.

I'm guessing this is your first day on the internet.
 
More reports of lots of opened scopes this sale cycle from EO.

What's a good reason for breaking the seal on "new" scopes before sending to would-be customers, sir? If it were once, four times, or perhaps half a dozen, sure, mistakes happen. This seems to be SOP at this point from EuroOptics.

Could @Shamus Terry take them out behind the woodshed or at least tell us what is at play here? My money is on selling back-to-stock returns/demos as "new", but I can't prove it. Yet.

Adding myself to the list of reports of opened scopes from EO.

Mine looked like someone first tried to open the box from the top until they realized that there was a flap sealed by a sticker. After breaking the seal, the person decided to poke a hole through the inspection card.
 

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Adding myself to the list of reports of opened scopes from EO.

Mine looked like someone first tried to open the box from the top until they realized that there was a flap sealed by a sticker. After breaking the seal, the person decided to poke a hole through the inspection card.
Holes in the inspection card here, too...and the instructions stick inside the little flap cut out for the propaganda. I wish the guys at Alibaba would get their shit together.

I'm going to force the issue...will create a thread, take names and states where this bait-and-switch is happening, and see if we can't change their business model.
 
I called vortex after a buddy got a gen iii 6-36 with opened sticker and a few weeks later I got a 6-36 and a 1-10 that were also both opened. These were from liberty and drop shipped right from vortex is my understanding. I figured they were returns or refurbs and that’s how Scott’s prices were so low. When I called vortex they said that likely the turrets were upgraded with new internals here in the states after the container arrived. Interesting they are still rolling in if it was a design change since that was ordered dec last year and we got the scopes in March and April.
 
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Holes in the inspection card here, too...and the instructions stick inside the little flap cut out for the propaganda. I wish the guys at Alibaba would get their shit together.

I'm going to force the issue...will create a thread, take names and states where this bait-and-switch is happening, and see if we can't change their business model.
Are holes in the inspection card like unsold paperbacks with the cover torn off? Like an industry standard way of denoting used goods?
 
There's no way these are scopes that have been sold and returned, not with that many of them.

The most likely story is that they are opened so that they can be sold at a discount. It's a clever way to get sales when everyone else is selling at MAP.

The scopes in the box are still brand new I'm sure. Mount the fucking thing and go shoot instead of crying on the internet about how the box looks...
 
Holes in the inspection card here, too...and the instructions stick inside the little flap cut out for the propaganda. I wish the guys at Alibaba would get their shit together.

I'm going to force the issue...will create a thread, take names and states where this bait-and-switch is happening, and see if we can't change their business model.
🤣😂🤣😂🤣 Best of luck Scotty…
 
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Sympathies for everyone that put out money and does not have what they paid for

I ordered one scope from LO a few years before the pandemic and got mine new in box/sealed

But I find it a bit ironic how people are unhappy about getting opened boxes and holes in papers from EuroOptic

In my thread I'm being it doesn't matter I got a cheap plastic case with my $2800 Seekins SP10 vs the much nicer ones another dealer confirmed the 2023's are supposed to have.
 
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More reports of lots of opened scopes this sale cycle from EO.

What's a good reason for breaking the seal on "new" scopes before sending to would-be customers, sir? If it were once, four times, or perhaps half a dozen, sure, mistakes happen. This seems to be SOP at this point from EuroOptics.

Could @Shamus Terry take them out behind the woodshed or at least tell us what is at play here? My money is on selling back-to-stock returns/demos as "new", but I can't prove it. Yet.
Without reading any other comments, I'll answer this with my personal opinion. I don't know anything about EO opening boxes, but with other retailers it usually comes from a place of extra QC. Is everything in the box? Does it at least work? If so, okay send it on to the customer. If not, deal with the manufacturer directly rather than letting your customer find out for themselves that they have to submit an RMA on their brand new product.
 
I just bought a new Gen III from Scheels and picked up from store.
Box was not sealed and my inspection tag also had a hole punched in bottom left Corner I assume where the tag was attached at some point to the scope to show it was inspected?
Looks great turrets great all is good!
 
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As I've said before, I have no dog in this (LO) hunt and nothing owed to me. But, I figured I'd throw in my two cents worth on the subject of open boxes.........

If I'm getting a screaming deal, I'm less concerned with an open box than if I'm buying (for example) a product like brand new Swaro Bino's and paying full boat retail.

Vortex have always been known to have great C/S and a great Warranty. Votex would be pretty much the last company/product that I would have any concerns about receiving an "open box" product. :)
 
I posted earlier that I've gotten open box from EO, but since it's been Vortex stuff, I don't really give it much thought.

I know that if there is something wrong with it, then it's an easy fix.

The only hard feelings are that they often run even bigger discounts on their open box / demo items. And buying used from the PX here is also usually cheaper. So it's not a great feeling that you spent a little more than you could have, but again, I've haven't felt the need to send it back like I have done with other retailers that have sold clearly used items as new.
 
I called vortex after a buddy got a gen iii 6-36 with opened sticker and a few weeks later I got a 6-36 and a 1-10 that were also both opened. These were from liberty and drop shipped right from vortex is my understanding. I figured they were returns or refurbs and that’s how Scott’s prices were so low. When I called vortex they said that likely the turrets were upgraded with new internals here in the states after the container arrived. Interesting they are still rolling in if it was a design change since that was ordered dec last year and we got the scopes in March and April.

The 2x G3 6-36s I received directly from Vortex about two weeks ago (the ones I got hosed for by Scott that I reordered direct from Vortex) had the little tamper tape seal on the box cut/torn.

They were most definitely 100% brand new though-- they were spotless.

The 3x LHTs I received from Euro Optic in June had their tamper tape sealed. I had another G3 6-36 arrive from Euro Optic today (I couldn't resist the sale last weekend; even though the price was a little higher than my last transaction with Scott, there was a lot less drama involved... lol) and the little logo / tamper tape on the box was sealed.

Instead of worrying about what Euro Optic is selling, we should be tracking Scott down...
 
The 2x G3 6-36s I received directly from Vortex about two weeks ago (the ones I got hosed for by Scott that I reordered direct from Vortex) had the little tamper tape seal on the box cut/torn.

They were most definitely 100% brand new though-- they were spotless.

The 3x LHTs I received from Euro Optic in June had their tamper tape sealed. I had another G3 6-36 arrive from Euro Optic today (I couldn't resist the sale last weekend; even though the price was a little higher than my last transaction with Scott, there was a lot less drama involved... lol) and the little logo / tamper tape on the box was sealed.

Instead of worrying about what Euro Optic is selling, we should be tracking Scott down...
I'd guess that those arriving sealed are from batches that had the turrets fixed at the factory, opened boxes had the turrets done after landing.
 
More reports of lots of opened scopes this sale cycle from EO.

What's a good reason for breaking the seal on "new" scopes before sending to would-be customers, sir? If it were once, four times, or perhaps half a dozen, sure, mistakes happen. This seems to be SOP at this point from EuroOptics.

Could @Shamus Terry take them out behind the woodshed or at least tell us what is at play here? My money is on selling back-to-stock returns/demos as "new", but I can't prove it. Yet.

You’re an idiot if you can’t understand why dealers sell something as a “demo” or “open box”. Ever heard of MAP dude?

Every “demo” or “open box” special I’ve ever bought I’ve cut the seal on.

Instead of speculating about something which you’re clearly clueless about, why don’t you order one and see what you get?
 
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