Liberty Optics Still Legit?

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I hope everyone gets their money back. Sounds like this cat was a stand-up guy, until he wasn't.

His terms with Vortex were Net-Never and he was living on the float.

I'll just stick with Euro-Optic.

Yeah that's what it looks like. He must have had some kind of addiction or something that messed him up. You don't run a successful business that long and then dissappear without a woman, drugs, or gambling involved, or maybe all 3.

It sucks because there's many small businesses that cater to us and are fantastic and this stuff and situations like it (that we seem to find out about once a year or so), make it harder for the good small business guys to do their thing. I can't blame anyone for taking the attitude of "I will stick with Euro Optics", it makes good sense, it just sucks this stuff happens and pretty regularly for whatever reason.

 

[lash]

Where there’s money and demand…

 

[Kiba]

Just received an email from my credit card provider that the chargeback investigation is now complete, they were unable to contact the merchant during the 45 day dispute/investigation period so the chargeback is now permanent in my favor.

I guess those 3% credit card processing fees are good for something after all.

FYI, it looks like at least one legal case has been filed against Scott... Looks like he took out a cash advance for $118k in March and failed to repay all of it. Looks like Scott repaid $86k then flaked on the balance.

SUMMONS + COMPLAINT - S & C November 14, 2023

SUMMONS + COMPLAINT - S & C November 14, 2023. Read court documents, court records online and search Trellis.law comprehensive legal database for any state court documents.

trellis.law

 

[Evintos]

Just received an email from my credit card provider that the chargeback investigation is now complete, they were unable to contact the merchant during the 45 day dispute/investigation period so the chargeback is now permanent in my favor.

I guess those 3% credit card processing fees are good for something after all.

FYI, it looks like at least one legal case has been filed against Scott... Looks like he took out a cash advance for $118k in March and failed to repay all of it. Looks like Scott repaid $86k then flaked on the balance.

SUMMONS + COMPLAINT - S & C November 14, 2023

SUMMONS + COMPLAINT - S & C November 14, 2023. Read court documents, court records online and search Trellis.law comprehensive legal database for any state court documents.

trellis.law

I'm starting to build a picture. He and his wife doesn't live in Montana full time. Cash advance is probably to pay attorneys for a failed age discrimination lawsuit in Florida (filed 10/22/22 and cased closed 06/22/23). He was working in Destin Florida as was his wife Lorraine rather than living in Montana. Both names, Scott J Berish and Lorraine Berish are found as names associated with Liberty Optics LLC. The Montana address is probably an investment rental property. Scott J Berish is associated Kalispell, MT and Valparaiso, FL. Valparaiso is less than 10 miles away from Destin, FL. Liberty Optics LLC principal address also used to be 2436 Cove Rd Navarre, FL 32566, which is around 30 miles from Destin. If I'm correct, Scott J Berish is the person on the left in the pic below.

Case # - 3:2022cv21061

 

[Kiba]

@4O6shootist has met Scott face to face before... Maybe he can confirm that's the correct Scott J Berish in that picture.

Also, both Kalispell house addresses Scott used in the LLC paperwork appear to be rentals owned by a property management company in Idaho, but I haven't dug any deeper than that.

Also, Lorraine Berish was deputy administrative coordinator for the city of Destin according to a couple of things I found, and previously was clerk of the board of supervisors in Thompson Falls soon after Scott and the Liberty LLC left Florida to head back to Montana several years ago... same name, both in clerical public service related positions, both in the same towns Scott is/was living in... your hunch might be right, probably not a coincidence that both a Scott and Lorraine Berish were on the Destin, FL payrolls at the same time and also appear on all the Liberty Optics LLC filings.

Taking out a cash advance against the business to cover the age discrimination case makes sense in regards to the timeline, and if he couldn't sell enough scopes fast enough to cover the automatic payments to the loan company that were mentioned in that filing that explains why orders weren't being paid for.

A positive ID of Scott in the picture above would fill in some blanks here... 406Shootist said he's met Scott face to face before to pick up scopes, and I believe Ilya has met Scott face to face before at SHOT back around 2010 and they might have done a video together at some point.

@koshkin -- is that the Scott we're looking for in the above picture?

 

[hkguns]

Hopefully his side hustle allowed him to fulfill all of his great responsibilities as "Deputy" park dog whilst slurping at the public trough.

Lordy.

ETA: Based on the court documents below, it is clear his side hustle impacted his score keeping at the rec center.

 

[4O6shootist]

@Kiba the man on the L in that photo is Scott Berish, can confirm. He looks a bit older now with more gray, but no longer wears the glasses. This is all still just so strange. Between an eotech thermal clip on, several razors, sig kilo 10k, I've done close to 25k in transactions, all seamless. I did get a scope delivered to me in August, maybe that was the last one. Didn't want to fuck me over as I live here, know his face and he could possibly run into me some day. Scott drove an older small extended cab maroon pickup with a topper on it, believe it was a Tacoma, also saw him driving a newer white Tacoma. He had a regular habit of going to the Summit Wellness center as he would lift and swim, this was usually 11-2pm, as I met him there a handful of times to get a product. I have gone by there in his normal hours to see if I recognized his vehicle, or himself to see if he's still around, done this 3 times in lady few months. I myself work half the month out of town, and with hunting season, my days off were really tied up.

 

[Kiba]

@Kiba the man on the L in that photo is Scott Berish, can confirm. He looks a bit older now with more gray, but no longer wears the glasses. This is all still just so strange. Between an eotech thermal clip on, several razors, sig kilo 10k, I've done close to 25k in transactions, all seamless.

Awesome, thanks for the confirmation!

So he was apparently running Liberty out of Montana while he and his wife were working for the city of Destin in Florida. Looks like losing the age discrimination case might have been what put him on the financial downward spiral.

After him being a rather stand up dude for many of us who had been doing business with him for 20 years, it's still weird he chose this route to bring things to a close.

This is turning out to be an interesting Monday morning, lol

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Destin, Valparaiso, and Navarre is the last place I'd expect that fucker to turn up. Woah.

I know some folks in the area. Lemme see what I can turn up.

For the people that got scammed, Navarre is unincorporated and falls under the Santa Rosa County FL sheriff's department. Might be worth getting in touch with them.

 

[stanley_white]

And so it begins…

-Stan

 

[W54/XM-388]

Just received an email from my credit card provider that the chargeback investigation is now complete, they were unable to contact the merchant during the 45 day dispute/investigation period so the chargeback is now permanent in my favor.

I guess those 3% credit card processing fees are good for something after all.

FYI, it looks like at least one legal case has been filed against Scott... Looks like he took out a cash advance for $118k in March and failed to repay all of it. Looks like Scott repaid $86k then flaked on the balance.

SUMMONS + COMPLAINT - S & C November 14, 2023

SUMMONS + COMPLAINT - S & C November 14, 2023. Read court documents, court records online and search Trellis.law comprehensive legal database for any state court documents.

trellis.law

I'm starting to build a picture. He and his wife doesn't live in Montana full time. Cash advance is probably to pay attorneys for a failed age discrimination lawsuit in Florida (filed 10/22/22 and cased closed 06/22/23). He was working in Destin Florida as was his wife Lorraine rather than living in Montana. Both names, Scott J Berish and Lorraine Berish are found as names associated with Liberty Optics LLC. The Montana address is probably an investment rental property. Scott J Berish is associated Kalispell, MT and Valparaiso, FL. Valparaiso is less than 10 miles away from Destin, FL. Liberty Optics LLC principal address also used to be 2436 Cove Rd Navarre, FL 32566, which is around 30 miles from Destin. If I'm correct, Scott J Berish is the person on the left in the pic below.

Case # - 3:2022cv21061

View attachment 8288255
View attachment 8288267
View attachment 8288268

I think perhaps we might be able to get a pretty good idea of the why this suddenly all happened.
Predatory lenders and people too short sighted, too quick to rush for something or too ignorant to know what they are getting into.

Here is a possible explanation that is purely conjecture but offers some things that may be good for thought / research.
Scott didn't set out to try to rip anyone off, he had a decades long successful business going on that made decent just not huge money.
Something happened with employment for him or his wife while living in Florida and they were pretty angry about it.
Some lawyers around there were happy to take a suckers money and probably told them they had a slam dunk case and couldn't lose and everyone was going to be in the money very shortly.
BUT... said lawyers wanted money up front or pretty much pay as you go for some pretty expensive rates.
But don't worry, they said, it's all worth it, you'll get so much more back in return.

Scott and wife see $$$ in their eyes and rush for what seems to be an easy windfall, they just you know need to get their hands on like $100k right away to pay the lawyers.

Somebody (could have been the lawyers, could have been their own stupid searches for easy but expensive money) hooked them up with the worst kind of lender a business could possibly go to. Those NYC "lenders" that are pretty much guaranteed to bankrupt your business and bleed you dry.

Typical terms, sky high interest rates, direct access to your bank accounts, daily withdrawals of money from your deposits, probably signing of of those crooked documents that NY allows that lets them skip court proceedings and just grab all your stuff if there isn't enough money in the bank account to pay that day's takings. (do a bit of research, you'll find hundreds of pages of horror stories of dealing with those lenders, it almost always ends the same, business bankrupt, owners bust or worse).

So Scott and wife make the deal with the devil. All Scott's income from his business is now being sucked up daily by the "lenders" from NY.
Not a great situation but hey the lawsuit should be won shortly and then all will be good.

Well reality hits and either they don't have as good a case as they thought and it becomes clear it's basically going to be settled for next to nothing, or the lawyers say we've used up all that $100k you paid us, so either settle or pay us another $100k

So now Scott and wife are stuck between the devil and a hard place.
So Scott goes all in on trying to generate raw daily income to keep the devil at bay and starts using customer money for orders to pay off the devil that is daily hounding at his heels, hoping to get more new orders in to keep the previous orders dribbling out.
(Anyone intelligent knows how this is going to end, but the desperate hopeful always think that like "true communism" they will be the ones to get it done right and come out good)

Scott mentions they are having one of their slowest summers in like forever.
Scott tries more sales, tries everything and by this time is playing a desperate game of who can I string along vs. who needs their stuff now so as not to cause huge uproar.

Eventually one day there isn't enough money in the bank account for the daily feeding the devil demands.
The "lender" seizes every last drop of money in the bank account and any other assets they have their tentacles allowed to touch, probably without any warning, then says now you owe us a huge lump sum way more than agreed, and here is the lawsuit.

Scott is bust, no options, shuts down the business.
Can't face anyone after what went down and simply goes silent and disappears.

The devil will still keep looking for their pound of flesh until they decide they can't find anything to make it worthwhile, then they sell it to a lesser demon to try and down the chain until it's junk that some imp is trying to rattle. Credit card companies and payment processors will try to get theirs but eventually see it's not worth it as there is nothing left to have and just write it off against vast profits, while selling the noncollectable debt to imps that deal in junk.

And history is left with the story of yet another person who thought they were decent and good and went along very well for a long time but then got enticed by the dark side and lost it all.

 

[Baron23]

I think perhaps we might be able to get a pretty good idea of the why this suddenly all happened.
Predatory lenders and people too short sighted, too quick to rush for something or too ignorant to know what they are getting into.

Here is a possible explanation that is purely conjecture but offers some things that may be good for thought / research.
Scott didn't set out to try to rip anyone off, he had a decades long successful business going on that made decent just not huge money.
Something happened with employment for him or his wife while living in Florida and they were pretty angry about it.
Some lawyers around there were happy to take a suckers money and probably told them they had a slam dunk case and couldn't lose and everyone was going to be in the money very shortly.
BUT... said lawyers wanted money up front or pretty much pay as you go for some pretty expensive rates.
But don't worry, they said, it's all worth it, you'll get so much more back in return.

Scott and wife see $$$ in their eyes and rush for what seems to be an easy windfall, they just you know need to get their hands on like $100k right away to pay the lawyers.

Somebody (could have been the lawyers, could have been their own stupid searches for easy but expensive money) hooked them up with the worst kind of lender a business could possibly go to. Those NYC "lenders" that are pretty much guaranteed to bankrupt your business and bleed you dry.

Typical terms, sky high interest rates, direct access to your bank accounts, daily withdrawals of money from your deposits, probably signing of of those crooked documents that NY allows that lets them skip court proceedings and just grab all your stuff if there isn't enough money in the bank account to pay that day's takings. (do a bit of research, you'll find hundreds of pages of horror stories of dealing with those lenders, it almost always ends the same, business bankrupt, owners bust or worse).

So Scott and wife make the deal with the devil. All Scott's income from his business is now being sucked up daily by the "lenders" from NY.
Not a great situation but hey the lawsuit should be won shortly and then all will be good.

Well reality hits and either they don't have as good a case as they thought and it becomes clear it's basically going to be settled for next to nothing, or the lawyers say we've used up all that $100k you paid us, so either settle or pay us another $100k

So now Scott and wife are stuck between the devil and a hard place.
So Scott goes all in on trying to generate raw daily income to keep the devil at bay and starts using customer money for orders to pay off the devil that is daily hounding at his heels, hoping to get more new orders in to keep the previous orders dribbling out.
(Anyone intelligent knows how this is going to end, but the desperate hopeful always think that like "true communism" they will be the ones to get it done right and come out good)

Scott mentions they are having one of their slowest summers in like forever.
Scott tries more sales, tries everything and by this time is playing a desperate game of who can I string along vs. who needs their stuff now so as not to cause huge uproar.

Eventually one day there isn't enough money in the bank account for the daily feeding the devil demands.
The "lender" seizes every last drop of money in the bank account and any other assets they have their tentacles allowed to touch, probably without any warning, then says now you owe us a huge lump sum way more than agreed, and here is the lawsuit.

Scott is bust, no options, shuts down the business.
Can't face anyone after what went down and simply goes silent and disappears.

The devil will still keep looking for their pound of flesh until they decide they can't find anything to make it worthwhile, then they sell it to a lesser demon to try and down the chain until it's junk that some imp is trying to rattle. Credit card companies and payment processors will try to get theirs but eventually see it's not worth it as there is nothing left to have and just write it off against vast profits, while selling the noncollectable debt to imps that deal in junk.

And history is left with the story of yet another person who thought they were decent and good and went along very well for a long time but then got enticed by the dark side and lost it all.

Yeah, and I believe in the tooth fairy too. ;-) lol

 

[shields shtr]

I think perhaps we might be able to get a pretty good idea of the why this suddenly all happened.
Predatory lenders and people too short sighted, too quick to rush for something or too ignorant to know what they are getting into.

Here is a possible explanation that is purely conjecture but offers some things that may be good for thought / research.
Scott didn't set out to try to rip anyone off, he had a decades long successful business going on that made decent just not huge money.
Something happened with employment for him or his wife while living in Florida and they were pretty angry about it.
Some lawyers around there were happy to take a suckers money and probably told them they had a slam dunk case and couldn't lose and everyone was going to be in the money very shortly.
BUT... said lawyers wanted money up front or pretty much pay as you go for some pretty expensive rates.
But don't worry, they said, it's all worth it, you'll get so much more back in return.

Scott and wife see $$$ in their eyes and rush for what seems to be an easy windfall, they just you know need to get their hands on like $100k right away to pay the lawyers.

Somebody (could have been the lawyers, could have been their own stupid searches for easy but expensive money) hooked them up with the worst kind of lender a business could possibly go to. Those NYC "lenders" that are pretty much guaranteed to bankrupt your business and bleed you dry.

Typical terms, sky high interest rates, direct access to your bank accounts, daily withdrawals of money from your deposits, probably signing of of those crooked documents that NY allows that lets them skip court proceedings and just grab all your stuff if there isn't enough money in the bank account to pay that day's takings. (do a bit of research, you'll find hundreds of pages of horror stories of dealing with those lenders, it almost always ends the same, business bankrupt, owners bust or worse).

So Scott and wife make the deal with the devil. All Scott's income from his business is now being sucked up daily by the "lenders" from NY.
Not a great situation but hey the lawsuit should be won shortly and then all will be good.

Well reality hits and either they don't have as good a case as they thought and it becomes clear it's basically going to be settled for next to nothing, or the lawyers say we've used up all that $100k you paid us, so either settle or pay us another $100k

So now Scott and wife are stuck between the devil and a hard place.
So Scott goes all in on trying to generate raw daily income to keep the devil at bay and starts using customer money for orders to pay off the devil that is daily hounding at his heels, hoping to get more new orders in to keep the previous orders dribbling out.
(Anyone intelligent knows how this is going to end, but the desperate hopeful always think that like "true communism" they will be the ones to get it done right and come out good)

Scott mentions they are having one of their slowest summers in like forever.
Scott tries more sales, tries everything and by this time is playing a desperate game of who can I string along vs. who needs their stuff now so as not to cause huge uproar.

Eventually one day there isn't enough money in the bank account for the daily feeding the devil demands.
The "lender" seizes every last drop of money in the bank account and any other assets they have their tentacles allowed to touch, atprobably without any warning, then says now you owe us a huge lump sum way more than agreed, and here is the lawsuit.

Scott is bust, no options, shuts down the business.
Can't face anyone after what went down and simply goes silent and disappears.

The devil will still keep looking for their pound of flesh until they decide they can't find anything to make it worthwhile, then they sell it to a lesser demon to try and down the chain until it's junk that some imp is trying to rattle. Credit card companies and payment processors will try to get theirs but eventually see it's not worth it as there is nothing left to have and just write it off against vast profits, while selling the noncollectable debt to imps that deal in junk.

And history is left with the story of yet another person who thought they were decent and good and went along very well for a long time but then got enticed by the dark side and lost it all.

That is certainly plausible, but doesn't take away from the fact he clearly and knowingly hosed a bunch of people out of their money. Money that those people earned and then gave to him in exchange for a good. He stole it, didn't have the balls to admit a giant mistake perhaps, and just bailed. 100k is alot, 30k is alot, but I don't think that warrants packing up all your shit and heading to South America. Could be into more trouble than that. Regardless, looks like the power of the innerwebs and the ad hoc Snipers Hide Detective Agency is closing in on him. If you were going to fuck over a bunch of people on the innerwebs, I am not sure this was the type of community to try and pull that off...

 

[W54/XM-388]

Yeah, and I believe in the tooth fairy too. ;-) lol

As I said for starting, it's purely conjecture and food for thought.

That being said, the fact that he did pay back 80k of the 100k ish loan kind of would say that perhaps my thoughts might not be all that far off.
A grand master planner wouldn't have paid back 80k of the 100k before skipping.

Daily ACH withdraws as shown in the court filings pretty much are a good indicator of where customer money for scopes was going.

 

[W54/XM-388]

That is certainly plausible, but doesn't take away from the fact he clearly and knowingly hosed a bunch of people out of their money. Money that those people earned and then gave to him in exchange for a good. He stole it, didn't have the balls to admit a giant mistake perhaps, and just bailed. 100k is alot, 30k is alot, but I don't think that warrants packing up all your shit and heading to South America. Could be into more trouble than that. Regardless, looks like the power of the innerwebs and the ad hoc Snipers Hide Detective Agency is closing in on him. If you were going to fuck over a bunch of people on the innerwebs, I am not sure this was the type of community to try and pull that off...

I'm not saying right or wrong, only that it's often useful to look at what drives otherwise decent folks to go down a dark path.
My guess is he is not off to some other country but rather just laying low in Florida.
(A much easier place to be lost in the crowd in than MT)

 

[LeftyJason]

That is certainly plausible, but doesn't take away from the fact he clearly and knowingly hosed a bunch of people out of their money. Money that those people earned and then gave to him in exchange for a good. He stole it, didn't have the balls to admit a giant mistake perhaps, and just bailed. 100k is alot, 30k is alot, but I don't think that warrants packing up all your shit and heading to South America. Could be into more trouble than that. Regardless, looks like the power of the innerwebs and the ad hoc Snipers Hide Detective Agency is closing in on him. If you were going to fuck over a bunch of people on the innerwebs, I am not sure this was the type of community to try and pull that off...

So we already have the Snipers Hide News Network.

Somebody needs to make a Snipers Hide Detective Agency.

Edit: SHDA picture.

 

[shields shtr]

I'm not saying right or wrong

100% get ya. This whole thing is super messed up and I am even more jaded than I was before after hearing about it. I bought a few things from the guy and he really was a stand up dude and provided some absolutely stellar customer service. Sucks all around.

 

[Kiba]

I think perhaps we might be able to get a pretty good idea of the why this suddenly all happened.
Predatory lenders and people too short sighted, too quick to rush for something or too ignorant to know what they are getting into.

Here is a possible explanation that is purely conjecture but offers some things that may be good for thought / research.
Scott didn't set out to try to rip anyone off, he had a decades long successful business going on that made decent just not huge money.
Something happened with employment for him or his wife while living in Florida and they were pretty angry about it.
Some lawyers around there were happy to take a suckers money and probably told them they had a slam dunk case and couldn't lose and everyone was going to be in the money very shortly.
BUT... said lawyers wanted money up front or pretty much pay as you go for some pretty expensive rates.
But don't worry, they said, it's all worth it, you'll get so much more back in return.

Scott and wife see $$$ in their eyes and rush for what seems to be an easy windfall, they just you know need to get their hands on like $100k right away to pay the lawyers.

Somebody (could have been the lawyers, could have been their own stupid searches for easy but expensive money) hooked them up with the worst kind of lender a business could possibly go to. Those NYC "lenders" that are pretty much guaranteed to bankrupt your business and bleed you dry.

Typical terms, sky high interest rates, direct access to your bank accounts, daily withdrawals of money from your deposits, probably signing of of those crooked documents that NY allows that lets them skip court proceedings and just grab all your stuff if there isn't enough money in the bank account to pay that day's takings. (do a bit of research, you'll find hundreds of pages of horror stories of dealing with those lenders, it almost always ends the same, business bankrupt, owners bust or worse).

So Scott and wife make the deal with the devil. All Scott's income from his business is now being sucked up daily by the "lenders" from NY.
Not a great situation but hey the lawsuit should be won shortly and then all will be good.

Well reality hits and either they don't have as good a case as they thought and it becomes clear it's basically going to be settled for next to nothing, or the lawyers say we've used up all that $100k you paid us, so either settle or pay us another $100k

So now Scott and wife are stuck between the devil and a hard place.
So Scott goes all in on trying to generate raw daily income to keep the devil at bay and starts using customer money for orders to pay off the devil that is daily hounding at his heels, hoping to get more new orders in to keep the previous orders dribbling out.
(Anyone intelligent knows how this is going to end, but the desperate hopeful always think that like "true communism" they will be the ones to get it done right and come out good)

Scott mentions they are having one of their slowest summers in like forever.
Scott tries more sales, tries everything and by this time is playing a desperate game of who can I string along vs. who needs their stuff now so as not to cause huge uproar.

Eventually one day there isn't enough money in the bank account for the daily feeding the devil demands.
The "lender" seizes every last drop of money in the bank account and any other assets they have their tentacles allowed to touch, probably without any warning, then says now you owe us a huge lump sum way more than agreed, and here is the lawsuit.

Scott is bust, no options, shuts down the business.
Can't face anyone after what went down and simply goes silent and disappears.

The devil will still keep looking for their pound of flesh until they decide they can't find anything to make it worthwhile, then they sell it to a lesser demon to try and down the chain until it's junk that some imp is trying to rattle. Credit card companies and payment processors will try to get theirs but eventually see it's not worth it as there is nothing left to have and just write it off against vast profits, while selling the noncollectable debt to imps that deal in junk.

And history is left with the story of yet another person who thought they were decent and good and went along very well for a long time but then got enticed by the dark side and lost it all.

I think this situation, rather than willful intended fraud, is the most probable cause, as nobody goes to a small business cash advance outfit unless they're very, very desperate, as the rates and terms are often outrageous. Daily withdrawals from accounts, cuts from future purchases, rates of 25%-100%+, and additional administrative and maintenance fees are not uncommon for these types of outfits, and many small businesses who take out these types of advances can never dig their way out of them and fail from the ever growing debt... and then collections comes calling.

If Scott was only in business for a year or ran off with the full $118k cash advance in addition to the customer money for unfulfilled orders I'd be more likely to think it was an intended scam to run off with everyone's money, but being in business 20 years and most customers (as well as other competitors and his suppliers) saying they never saw this coming seems to point to growing financial desperation that came crashing down.

The cash advance outfit did collect $86k from Scott's business accounts according to the case filing; if he really was commiting willful fraud to make off with as much money as possible why didn't he just pocket the full $118k cash advance and skip town?

Everyone hoping for nefarious criminal intent might end up disappointed that this just turns out to be another simple case of someone getting themselves into money problems, then digging themselves a deeper and deeper hole, until it ends in financial insolvency. Scott certainly could have handled things better with customers though... but maybe he thought if he could sell just a few more scopes on sale he could pay off the cash advance lenders, then use new incoming orders to pay for the unfilled "backorders", and then one day catch up with everyone... Not a situation he was likely to ever get out of.

On a semi related note, does anyone here have a pacer or similar subscription to see the details from the age discrimination suit? The case was dismissed, but it would be interesting to see what the original claims for filing were. I'm just wondering if it was filed for a past over promotion, wrongful termination, etc.

 

[Evintos]

On a semi related note, does anyone here have a pacer or similar subscription to see the details from the age discrimination suit? The case was dismissed, but it would be interesting to see what the original claims for filing were. I'm just wondering if it was filed for a past over promotion, wrongful termination, etc.

PDFs attached

 

[Schw15]

I guess I missed all this and got lucky received our second razor gen 3 around June not sure when this all happened but dang.

 

[Kiba]

PDFs attached

Looks like a Grade A case of office drama, yay!

It appears Scott may not have been as friendly with his coworkers as he was with his customers (up until about April of 2023, anyways.)

Then again, knowing a few people who work for the city and county, the stories they tell about office politics, managers playing favorites, and general BS that occurs at their meetings, coupled with an environment that makes it very difficult to fire known troublemakers and non-producers, maybe Scott was just fed up with all of it and called them on it and got canned for it, then sought legal recourse.

Or maybe everyone else in the office was fine, and Scott was the problem. They certainly had enough dated documentation on their side, and the courts seemed to agree.

It's fun to speculate.

 

[hkguns]

There is all kinds of Gold in those documents for anyone wanting to track him down. I bet Lisa Firth knows his whereabouts and would probably disclose.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I think perhaps we might be able to get a pretty good idea of the why this suddenly all happened.
Predatory lenders and people too short sighted, too quick to rush for something or too ignorant to know what they are getting into.

Here is a possible explanation that is purely conjecture but offers some things that may be good for thought / research.
Scott didn't set out to try to rip anyone off, he had a decades long successful business going on that made decent just not huge money.
Something happened with employment for him or his wife while living in Florida and they were pretty angry about it.
Some lawyers around there were happy to take a suckers money and probably told them they had a slam dunk case and couldn't lose and everyone was going to be in the money very shortly.
BUT... said lawyers wanted money up front or pretty much pay as you go for some pretty expensive rates.
But don't worry, they said, it's all worth it, you'll get so much more back in return.

Scott and wife see $$$ in their eyes and rush for what seems to be an easy windfall, they just you know need to get their hands on like $100k right away to pay the lawyers.

Somebody (could have been the lawyers, could have been their own stupid searches for easy but expensive money) hooked them up with the worst kind of lender a business could possibly go to. Those NYC "lenders" that are pretty much guaranteed to bankrupt your business and bleed you dry.

Typical terms, sky high interest rates, direct access to your bank accounts, daily withdrawals of money from your deposits, probably signing of of those crooked documents that NY allows that lets them skip court proceedings and just grab all your stuff if there isn't enough money in the bank account to pay that day's takings. (do a bit of research, you'll find hundreds of pages of horror stories of dealing with those lenders, it almost always ends the same, business bankrupt, owners bust or worse).

So Scott and wife make the deal with the devil. All Scott's income from his business is now being sucked up daily by the "lenders" from NY.
Not a great situation but hey the lawsuit should be won shortly and then all will be good.

Well reality hits and either they don't have as good a case as they thought and it becomes clear it's basically going to be settled for next to nothing, or the lawyers say we've used up all that $100k you paid us, so either settle or pay us another $100k

So now Scott and wife are stuck between the devil and a hard place.
So Scott goes all in on trying to generate raw daily income to keep the devil at bay and starts using customer money for orders to pay off the devil that is daily hounding at his heels, hoping to get more new orders in to keep the previous orders dribbling out.
(Anyone intelligent knows how this is going to end, but the desperate hopeful always think that like "true communism" they will be the ones to get it done right and come out good)

Scott mentions they are having one of their slowest summers in like forever.
Scott tries more sales, tries everything and by this time is playing a desperate game of who can I string along vs. who needs their stuff now so as not to cause huge uproar.

Eventually one day there isn't enough money in the bank account for the daily feeding the devil demands.
The "lender" seizes every last drop of money in the bank account and any other assets they have their tentacles allowed to touch, probably without any warning, then says now you owe us a huge lump sum way more than agreed, and here is the lawsuit.

Scott is bust, no options, shuts down the business.
Can't face anyone after what went down and simply goes silent and disappears.

The devil will still keep looking for their pound of flesh until they decide they can't find anything to make it worthwhile, then they sell it to a lesser demon to try and down the chain until it's junk that some imp is trying to rattle. Credit card companies and payment processors will try to get theirs but eventually see it's not worth it as there is nothing left to have and just write it off against vast profits, while selling the noncollectable debt to imps that deal in junk.

And history is left with the story of yet another person who thought they were decent and good and went along very well for a long time but then got enticed by the dark side and lost it all.

That's what I was coming to the conclusion of. Maybe I missed it and it was already covered/clarified, I only read over the posts quickly, but the cash advance appears to be from his CC processor for Liberty Optics against future sales. They essentially pull your funds on new CC sales and never hits your deposit account. When I was using Square for CC processing, they offered me a similar deal. Just like any cash advance, it's a dangerous proposition. The CC processor uses your past business processing to estimate a possible "capital" loan.

Not that it excuses what he did, at least he, I believe, didn't begin this with ill intent. Shit just hit the fan for him and he couldn't keep up. It appears he tried to fulfill what orders he could with Vortex with whatever CC funds he had left over after they took their repayment.

 

[Cynical]

There is all kinds of Gold in those documents for anyone wanting to track him down. I bet Lisa Firth knows his whereabouts and would probably disclose.

If someone seriously needs help on a very local to Destin front, pm me. I’m involved in the local government industry and know all the players involved in his lawsuit with the City of Destin. Also, don’t want to burst bubbles but he didn’t pay his lawyer anything up front. It was a contingency fee deal like almost all of her cases. He definitely didn’t get rich on the lawsuit settlement. Less than he would need to pay the factoring company that sued him.

 

[hkguns]

If someone seriously needs help on a very local to Destin front, pm me. I’m involved in the local government industry and know all the players involved in his lawsuit with the City of Destin. Also, don’t want to burst bubbles but he didn’t pay his lawyer anything up front. It was a contingency fee deal like almost all of her cases. He definitely didn’t get rich on the lawsuit settlement. Less than he would need to pay the factoring company that sued him.

Since you quoted me I want to be clear that I didn't lose any money to this guy, but there are others who may take you up on that offer.

I'm just here because I love a good mystery.

 

[Kiba]

If someone seriously needs help on a very local to Destin front, pm me. I’m involved in the local government industry and know all the players involved in his lawsuit with the City of Destin. Also, don’t want to burst bubbles but he didn’t pay his lawyer anything up front. It was a contingency fee deal like almost all of her cases. He definitely didn’t get rich on the lawsuit settlement. Less than he would need to pay the factoring company that sued him.

You sure about that?

On a more serious note, since it sounds like you are a Destin local, did you know it was the same Scott at both Destin parks and rec and Liberty Optics this whole time or did everything click and come together this morning? Just curious.

 

[Cynical]

Came together 15 minutes ago when I read it.

 

[Kiba]

Came together 15 minutes ago when I read it.

Sometimes it's crazy how small the world can seem, lol

Know if his wife still employed by the city? I would guess your husband taking city to court for age discrimination after getting fired might make things uncomfortable around the office... city payroll records don't show any payments going to her after 2020.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

A few things - the previously mentioned address in Navarre has never been owned by Berish, it's been owned by a different couple since 2003. I'm guessing it's also a rental. The last name Berish returns no hits in Santa Rosa County property records, and the only hits on 'Berish' in Okaloosa County (Destin, etc) are for different people.

If anyone wants to try to get law enforcement involved on the FL angle, Okaloosa County Sheriff's Department can be reached at 850-651-7400, and Santa Rosa County at 850-983-1190. Not sure if he's still living at the Navarre address or not, but it might be worth a try.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Came together 15 minutes ago when I read it.

So... is Lisa or Scott the villian in this story? or are both of them

 

[hkguns]

Both by my read.

He's an HR "Runner" - She's a "hostile work environment" wench. People like this are toxic to everyone around them.

 

[TheOE800]

So... is Lisa or Scott the villian in this story? or are both of them

Einhorn is Finkle!

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Both by my read.

He's an HR "Runner" - She's a "hostile work environment" wench. People like this are toxic to everyone around them.

Felt like it. But I was waiting for our inside local guy to be able to shed some light on whether Lisa really is as toxic as Scott claimed in court, or if that was just trumped up.

 

[Jnull]

Einhorn is Finkle!

Ace Ventura?

 

[Kiba]

Einhorn is Finkle!

I bet Scott's Mom makes cookies shaped like little scopes... turrets out, of course.

 

[Brym427]

Reading this and the Burris thread is part of my daily routine now. The mystery and drama is quite exciting

 

[OREGUN]

I went out this morning and shot a rifle that wears an XTRPro which I bought from Liberty Optics last year. Scope worked great, had no dust, grease, or jizz inside. And it was worth every penny of the reduced price I paid for it.

This and the Burris hate thread are all kinds of fun.

 

[hcsd54]

Any updated info on all this?

 

[louu]

I went out this morning and shot a rifle that wears an XTRPro which I bought from Liberty Optics last year. Scope worked great, had no dust, grease, or jizz inside. And it was worth every penny of the reduced price I paid for it.

This and the Burris hate thread are all kinds of fun.

Where is the Burris thread?

 

[quiksilverj]

Where is the Burris thread?

I think it’s this one

Burris Customer Services at its worst, please help/advise. (UPDATE: 04DEC23)

A few months back I had ordered (2) New Burris XTR Pro's direct from Burris and after my first outing with them I decided to give both scopes a cleaning, during the cleaning I noticed not just one of the Burris Pro's had debris inside both the Bell and Optical Lens but they both did to an extent...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Superjet]

This makes sense, in some of his last emails he mentioned "Being back on the East Coast" to me as a reason he couldn't process my return.

 

[goatsie]

What I find terribly ironic about this whole situation is that if Scott had started a “go fund me” of some sort many of us who had purchased scopes from him would have gladly donated or put items for sale on his behalf to help him in his time of need and he likely would have had more money than he made off with.

 

[clefairy]

What I find terribly ironic about this whole situation is that if Scott had started a “go fund me” of some sort many of us who had purchased scopes from him would have gladly donated or put items for sale on his behalf to help him in his time of need and he likely would have had more money than he made off with.

He woulda pocketed the go fund me and disappeared twice. Laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[R_A_W]

This and the Burris hate thread are all kinds of fun.

Want to combine them?

Scope worked great, had no dust, grease, or jizz inside.

You received one of the defects

(disclaimer - I'm moderately happy w/ my XTR3)

 

[R_A_W]

Somebody needs to make a Snipers Hide Detective Agency.

Let's one-up the Reddit Bureau of Investigation... they had like 13 people interrogated within 48hrs of the Boston Bombing, none of whom were the bombers

 

[Raffy]

I'm wondering how many orders he made off with. If he had made off with 250 orders at 2000 average each he made off with a half million.

 

[Ruslow]

Well I was one of the ones who was hosed by Scott. problem i have is that my bank card is Bank of America,and i did not do anything not even a phone call since the other scope transactions went so smoothly [4]in previous years. So no worries..well then I see this thread and call vortec and sure enough I am on the list waiting for the $, problem I have is it was past 120 days,filed with BA but from past experiences with them i am not liking the finial out come. They say they are 'looking' into it and they have 60-90 days to decide whether to investiage,the another120 to reinder their decision,hope it works out in my favor but with Scott being in hiding and the time that lapsed not holding my breath on which way they will go!.Stan

 

[Mattv931]

For some reason, these private investigators on this thread remind me of the reality show "Cheaters" .

You guys ruined my life......and Scott's apparently

 

[Evintos]

Well I was one of the ones who was hosed by Scott. problem i have is that my bank card is Bank of America,and i did not do anything not even a phone call since the other scope transactions went so smoothly [4]in previous years. So no worries..well then I see this thread and call vortec and sure enough I am on the list waiting for the $, problem I have is it was past 120 days,filed with BA but from past experiences with them i am not liking the finial out come. They say they are 'looking' into it and they have 60-90 days to decide whether to investiage,the another120 to reinder their decision,hope it works out in my favor but with Scott being in hiding and the time that lapsed not holding my breath on which way they will go!.Stan

Citi has a similar policy as well but I just received good news and maybe you will too with BoA. I filed my dispute online and filled out original transaction date (Apr 21), date of expected delivery (I forgot the exact phrasing, but I put in Aug 22, which is around 120 days past transaction because that was roughly the estimated "backorder" timeline) for Goods/Services never received, and the filing of dispute was on Oct 17.

 

[Emerson0311]

I have to update my post about a 2nd hand Gen 2 Razor I had here in Canukistan that wouldn’t hold horizontal zero. Vortex Scott reached out to me and I shipped it south. Shamus has a new Gen 3 in the mail headed my way. Absolutely top shelf customer service. Far above and beyond any reasonable expectation. A very rare thing in my experience. It will go right on my match rifle.