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Liberty Optics Still Legit?
- Thread starter Napeequa55
- Start date
Anybody get a QuickBooks invoice payment request from Liberty Optics today?
Yep, for the new AMG 1-10 I ordered from Scott. Killer price, no sales tax, and I don't have to buy a rifle I don't want with it like from those guys at Euro Optic.
Should be here next week.
In all seriousness though, I received a payment request for an invoice that only had a down payment originally yet shows another payment in the same quantity yesterday. Not seeing a pending charge on any of my cards though. Super odd.
He might be processing payments using the customers previously submitted credit card number, or he's hoping that someone isn't aware of what's going on and will pay the current invoice amount.
Well now that’s something I haven’t thought of the entire time this thread has been going.
If he save all the CC info we had paid him he could have probably ran up a TON of money.
Im amazed the weaponized autists haven't found him yet. Disappointment actually.
I expected a grid location and target package by now.
I expected a grid location and target package by now.
Well, they aren't going to look for him unless or until criminal charges are filed
I just received a phone call from the Montana Office of Consumer Protection for a follow up with my complaint that I filed online. Apparently there's a stack that the gentleman is going through. So if you haven't filed a complaint, do so. No clue what they'll do, but wanted to let you guys know they're looking into it.
Phone was from Caller ID - Montana Office of Consumer Protection, Helena, MT, 406-444-4500
Phone was from Caller ID - Montana Office of Consumer Protection, Helena, MT, 406-444-4500
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This is NOT funny Kiba, I almost went to his website to order oneYep, for the new AMG 1-10 I ordered from Scott. Killer price, no sales tax, and I don't have to buy a rifle I don't want with it like from those guys at Euro Optic.
Should be here next week.
I have not followed this thread for quite a while but just curious, surely someone else on the Hide had to personally know Scott, was friends and went over to his house to watch football games, shoot with him, etc.??? Has there been anyone who personally knew him and hung out with him step forward to explain... well, anything?
This is NOT funny Kiba, I almost went to his website to order one
I have not followed this thread for quite a while but just curious, surely someone else on the Hide had to personally know Scott, was friends and went over to his house to watch football games, shoot with him, etc.??? Has there been anyone who personally knew him and hung out with him step forward to explain... well, anything?
Go back to post 905 and read from there. Scott and his wife were working for the city in Florida, Scott got canned after repeated clashes with his manager, went to a lawyer for an age discrimination wrongful termination lawsuit, case was dropped for a settlement. In the middle of all that he took out a six figure cash advance against the business, paid a big chunk of it back, then stopped paying, and now the cash advance place is going after him too.
One of the members here ended up knowing Scott through the city job in Florida but did not know or make the connection it was the same Liberty Optics Scott.
As far as I know nobody has kept digging and tracked him down and got an explanation out of him, or if they have they haven't shared it. I eased up on the research when my credit card company gave me the final refund, but I know others weren't so lucky with getting a chargeback.
Quasi-related, I just spoke with a certain city PD about a different case. I was only one of two people to file a police report with a different person that was running a fraud scheme. I purchased a scope from this guy that he never shipped, and he used a fake ID as proof (I now require video/facetime when doing higher cost deals); apparently he normally defrauded people from guns, but I was the highest dollar amount he defrauded. I was one of only two people that filed a report, but after digging into financials the PD found out he defrauded another ~30 people who are now being contacted. If the two of us didn’t they’d never know to take up the case and this guy would still be out stealing from people.
It took almost two years for them to take up the case but they found the guy due to the financials and are pressing felony charges.
It was slow but this guy would have kept making his living with theft if the two of us didn’t file a report.
It took almost two years for them to take up the case but they found the guy due to the financials and are pressing felony charges.
It was slow but this guy would have kept making his living with theft if the two of us didn’t file a report.
Thanks for the TLDR summary
Just caught up from post 905... Oddly enough, I live near where Scott used to live down here, but he told me he moved back to Montana after I asked if he'd like to get together for coffee. He told me he couldn't stand this area which I have grown fond of, my guess is he didn't like it because he was having issues with his day job, said he hated the traffic which for me (coming from Denver area and previous to that LA (Los Angeles not Lower Alabama ) is nothing. My daughter had a job in Destin and commuted every day, it was a pain on some days especially if there was an accident as there's only one major road through the whole area (Hwy 98). I continued to buy things from him up until September last year and it was delivered from Vortex but only a mount and not a scope, his invoices give his Montana address but since all the items were drop shipped (from Vortex) no way of knowing where Scott actually was, sounds like at some point he came back to the Panhandle. Not that big of a deal because it appears Scott is long gone and wherever he once was likely doesn't matter. Still shocked that after years of faithfully helping out the community he decides to screw so many, he has certainly put a black eye on the small business guy trying to get started.As good as all the Hide sleuthing has been it is doubtful any of us will ever know the "real" story, but there are some good theories and some entertaining theories in this thread
In the meantime I'll be on the lookout for the guy from post 905.I have considered from time to time trying to start a small side business selling sport optics, but after this fiasco I don't think I stand a chance, so I'll stick to my reviews of scopes and maybe my new YouTube channel can generate something.
Link to your Youtube channel?Thanks for the TLDR summary
As good as all the Hide sleuthing has been it is doubtful any of us will ever know the "real" story, but there are some good theories and some entertaining theories in this thread
I have considered from time to time trying to start a small side business selling sport optics, but after this fiasco I don't think I stand a chance, so I'll stick to my reviews of scopes and maybe my new YouTube channel can generate something.
Oh right, would help if I would actually post some content. I have several videos but I'm such a perfectionist I haven't posted them yet, with my ADHD I've realized I ramble way too much which is why I do better at written reviews cause I can focus on what's important but in video I start talking about everything under the sun, literally
Once I post content I will update my signature as well as my main review page that is also linked in my signature.
I actually think you have a good point here as I think you are correct, if a bunch of Hide members knew Scott was in trouble I think they would have helped come to his rescue, unfortunately, for a lot of guys they are too embarrassed to admit they made some mistakes and are struggling. I am reminded of the end of the movie "It's a Wonderful Life" after Jimmy Stewarts character (George Bailey) thinks about taking his own life after some misplaced money (by his uncle) puts him in jeopardy he is visited by an Angel (Clarence) who allows him to see what life would have been like had he never lived and when he's allowed to return to the real world he runs home to find that his wife got word out to friends and family who all pitched in to bail him out and the movie ends when George picks up a book from a table where everyone was putting their money and valuables and inside the book is a note written by Clarence that reads, "Remember, no man is a failure who has friends". A sobering reminder for many of us when we are down in the dumps...
Literally a run-on sentence broOh right, would help if I would actually post some content. I have several videos but I'm such a perfectionist I haven't posted them yet, with my ADHD I've realized I ramble way too much which is why I do better at written reviews cause I can focus on what's important but in video I start talking about everything under the sun, literally
At first I was thinking “what?” And then I got it, my whole life feels like a run on sentenceLiterally a run-on sentence bro
I was contacted also, The guy said that he has about 15 other persons on the complaint, and also has GREAT praise the Vortex for helping out in this time.Pretty much had all my info except the price which I told him.
PDF 4-1 is self-explanatory. He sounds like a real gem. He tells his boss to "Leave me alone about my schedule." It's a wonder it took so long to fire him.
The thing I had trouble understanding is how his business model could work at all. It did not. He basically relied on increasing future sales to fund the purchase of committed inventory.
I wonder what other Ponzi schemes he had going on? And how many times he has done this in "other lives?"
I wonder if the Parks department has done a full inventory of its stuff and also hard reconciled its accounts payable?
He was always a fraud.
George was shown to be a stand up dude. He always managed his commitments and put his reputation ahead of his personal needs and wants. He never made excuses. He had a sound business model and faced his customers face to face. He was fair but tough as well. As a result he attracted the same people and attracted the best woman in town who married him and supported him. The honeymoon scene when he gets "home" shows her backbone and toughness as well as how she honors him, and is tribute to the writing in the show. As an aside Jimmy Stewart poured all his WWII PTSD into that movie and emerged "cured." Jimmy refused to sell war bonds and led bomber missions in Europe when most bombers did not come back. He is clearly the man behind the Captain America myth.
George's crisis is one of character and the loss of his reputation. And his misplaced perception of same. He filled that bank many times over and it was his wife who made that withdrawal. But he still needs to fire his addled cousin or put him in another job. And have a clean work area policy. And then George has to go to war with Potter.
Scott was no George. He was no Jimmy.
I have read this whole thread again, end to end. There is a lot of blame to go around.
Vortex has taken a bath on this. Hopefully they learned they to vet reps better. The Franchise model has some very good guidelines on how to use the rubber gloves when evaluating franchisees. Hopefully this will not be the nail that causes them to go out of business at some point.
And those of you on here who jumped on the "deal" also bear responsibility for abetting this fraud. You assisted Scott into conning others. You were the layers in the Ponzi scheme. Eventually the music ends and you have no chair to sit on. And then you blame someone else.
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update regarding LO received a letter from the state of Montana regarding the complaint that I filed. they have CLOSED my case because Vortex stepped up to the plate and made it right. So inother words Scott gets off of case.Stan
Just because the Montana Consumer division is closing their case doesn't mean a MT county/state, or even federal LE agency isn't continuing with a criminal case. It would really help if the scammed kept in contact with the county sheriff and MT state AG's office- because the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
How did vortex take a bath? Did liberty sell the scopes for less than he was paying vortex?
No, he’s just not understanding the situation correctly.
The scopes weren’t drop shipped to buyers until Vortex got paid for them. They just went above and beyond helping the people that got the short end of the stick.
There was a lot of talk about honoring LOs prices on orders that weren’t fulfilled.
If vortex took a loss due to deceptive business practices, they should be able to file (state law dependent). The persons that were made whole by vortex would then become witnesses.
At the minimum Vortex is out:
1. Burdened Labor to respond to this issue. Likely hundreds of hours across the firm.
2. Opportunity costs and executive mindshare of same.
3. Pricing power on the market due to Scott underselling MAP and MSRP.
4. Vortex reputation with their other distributors. If you have a choice to push Vortex or Brand X, which do you do? You can't compete with a Ponzi scheme. This has some damage on their channels.
And then:
1. Actual cash costs to make customers whole either by honoring Scott's "commitments" and/or pulling items out of the supply chain to do so.
2. Packing and Shipping costs for all the above.
3. Year end throughput, sales, deliveries, and impact on final numbers.
At a minimum, their COGS just went up for this year by at least $100K if not more. That's probably $1M in extra sales to make that up. Or they take it out of R&D or Marketing next year.
These things have lingering effects. A healthy firm with contingencies can weather it. A firm in a growth mode or a contraction mode can't without serious decision making.
Sounds like Vortex is handling this right. I am not knocking their response.
I do not have any inside knowledge so my perspective is based on what’s in this thread. I own a Vortex product and I think they are a good company.
The way Vortex handled this “opportunity “ should earn someone there a nice bonus. They sold and shipped a scope they were going to sell and ship anyway. The mental exercise necessary to navigate the situation should have been a piece of cake for anyone in those positions and a great learning opportunity. Should save them some money on executive training this year.
Any damage to their reputation seems to be overshadowed by all of the comments praising their response. There were several posters that indicated they would buy from Vortex now based on their response.
Of course another layer would be if Vortex completed orders for guys that were unsuccessful with their chargeback. That could be something costly but would be a legit boost for their reputation.
Vortex did step up, when they were just on the same end as us. We all got screwed by LO,But vortex is making it right. So coodos for them doing that. Will I buy another vortex scope YOU BET! Will I buy at basement prices maybe, but not if I am expected to wait for 3 months!Stan
They don’t have a case and it would be a waste of time and money to try to pursue a deadbeat that is probably just going to end up in prison anyway.
Vortex stepping in and helping with this was their decision and any scopes they sold and took a loss on was their decision to do so. They were only obligated the fulfill the orders that Scott placed and paid for, other than that everything is between the customer and Scott if they got fucked.
The only legal ground Vortex would have to pursue Scott is if any of his payments got kicked back after product was shipped. Even then probably not worth pursuing.
I'm going to say in the end Vortex is actually out Nothing, in fact they are even better off.
All that B.S. about pricing power and so on and blah blah, everybody including Vortex knows their MSRP is way out of touch with reality and they do that on purpose so folks can "get a great deal" which is a well proven strategy, backed up by tons of research into consumer buying trends.
Vortex was NOT shipping any scopes until they had been paid for them.
Scott was making a profit on each sale, just a much smaller profit than other stocking dealers.
Vortex offered to honour the price that Scott had sold and taken payment for but not delivered. That actually cost them no more than if they had been paid by Scott and shipped them out. Essentially they just agreed to sell direct to a select group of customers for a little bit over dealer cost and around the same cost as they will sell stuff to "specials" or when they are doing things like deals on ExpertVoice etc.
Remember Scott was actually a big part of getting Vortex scopes pushed into the tactical shooting market, by offering great deals he got folks to buy Vortex that would have otherwise bought something else. Me included, if I had to pay MSRP list price for Vortex stuff, well nope, going with someone else.
Scott had a good stable business model that worked for over 20 years, right up until he wound up into trouble with finances elsewhere in his life and used his business to guarantee loans from a really bad to deal with type of company. That was when it all fell apart, pretty much within about a year, his business just didn't have the kind of cash flow to pay off those kinds of usurious loans, pretty much no business does.
Scott thought he was smart and could outsmart the devil, but then found out he was the same kind of fool as anyone that makes the deal with the devil. How he handled it was about as bad as you could go, and he ruined his reputation for life.
Vortex spent a fair bit of manpower and executive time to fix the situation.
BUT if you actually were to take a look at it, the amount of reputational boost for their company, brand name awareness, customer brand name loyalty, word of mouth sales, and new interest in their brand was huge. They would have probably had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in advertising to get anywhere close to the same results.
I know some folks blather on about how it's the job of the customer to pay maximum prices for the profit of the dealers and company.
Total B.S.
If some executive in a company said it's our job to pay the maximum amount we can for our supplies and raw materials, how long would they have their jobs? They would laugh at the thought and go on about about how it's their duty to get the lowest possible price.
Customers have a responsibility just the same to find the lowest possible prices on what they want for their own benefit.
I like Vortex products, I have a big pile of them.
If I am able to find excellent deals going forward, I'll keep buying them.
When I can find excellent deals, I'll point friends, family and acquaintances towards any great deals on Vortex.
You don't have all of the details on what Vortex did to make people whole. I will leave it at that.
Jeebuz, Prezactly.
I seriously doubt that Vortex "lost any money" on fulfilling any of LO's orders. Looks to me like Vortex actually increased their profit (by LO's profit margin, which was probably small). However, all manufacturers want to ship in bulk, not onesie twosies. So yes, each individual order cost Vortex more to handle than if they had shipped pallet(s) of scopes to LO. But, did Vortex "lose" any money ? I seriously doubt it.
You can't buy the kind of positive press that Vortex got from "doing the right thing".
I'm not slagging on Vortex in any way, shape or form. Just the opposite. The way they handled this was exemplary/brilliant. They are absolutely to be commended for looking out for not only a few customers, but really, an entire industry.
Their actions should go down in the annals of history of the industry as to how to turn lemons into lemonade for everyone.
Observers can only comment on the details that they know about.
Plus or minus, Vortex appears to have taken care of a lot of people that they legitimately had no obligation to do so.
Jeebuz, Prezactly.
I seriously doubt that Vortex "lost any money" on fulfilling any of LO's orders. Looks to me like Vortex actually increased their profit (by LO's profit margin, which was probably small). However, all manufacturers want to ship in bulk, not onesie twosies. So yes, each individual order cost Vortex more to handle than if they had shipped pallet(s) of scopes to LO. But, did Vortex "lose" any money ? I seriously doubt it.
You can't buy the kind of positive press that Vortex got from "doing the right thing".
I'm not slagging on Vortex in any way, shape or form. Just the opposite. The way they handled this was exemplary/brilliant. They are absolutely to be commended for looking out for not only a few customers, but really, an entire industry.
Their actions should go down in the annals of history of the industry as to how to turn lemons into lemonade for everyone.
They were already drop shipping for him.
It cost them some time. Easily passed onto marketing as that's what it really was.
This would be a completely unreasonable thing to expect from them, and if they DID do it, one would expect that they'd not exactly be shouting about it due to the nature of this fraud scheme and people coming out of the wood work with their hand out.
Id imagine there has been some of that already.
Vortex has done PLENTY to lend a hand in a situation that most other companies would've ignored while shaking dandruff inside their scopes.
Ok we are basically down to two groups of customers that would either be a legal victim or not based off their ability to stop payment...
from my understanding Scott was actually "selling" scopes for a lower price than vortex was selling to him as a distributor.
He was coming out to the good by not delivering all of the scopes he "sold"
Vortex was trying to honor the prices that Scott "sold" the scopes for even though he couldn't get them for that price
So as long as the Scott price was still above manufacturing cost for vortex they basically gave up any profit margin they had.
Customers still had to do their own work to stop payment on their LO order. Then vortex spent time / resources to handle the orders direct to end users.
I don't recall anyone saying Vortex sent them one even though they couldn't pay vortex the discounted price after loosing money to scott.... maybe it happened, but that wasn't the process I was explained
The customers that were not able to stop payments are going to be the ones that still have a claim. If you were able to deal with your CC company to get your money back.... whatever happened after that was just vortex being nice, because there was no legal requirement for them to do ANY of what they did.
At this point the victims need to be categorized into two groups. The ones that managed to stop payment and the ones who couldn't get their money back at all.
Beyond that vortex was down right generous to step forward and spend time / resources to help people find out if their orders went through or if they were in the screwed group. They were also generous to sell the scopes at the discount that Scott was giving there at the end.
I can say as fact that if you are a small time shop and you contact vortex directly there is no way in hell you can get the scopes for the prices Scott was selling at the end of this craziness... maybe the huge / multi location / high volume places can, but I don't think they will come here and say so.
Summary;
Scott's still a crook
The only legal victims left are likely the ones that got no money back from Scott (and no scope from vortex)
Vortex and the folks that reached out to handle all this are exceptional examples of customer service and I hope it comes back to them exponentially in future sales and customers.
from my understanding Scott was actually "selling" scopes for a lower price than vortex was selling to him as a distributor.
He was coming out to the good by not delivering all of the scopes he "sold"
Vortex was trying to honor the prices that Scott "sold" the scopes for even though he couldn't get them for that price
So as long as the Scott price was still above manufacturing cost for vortex they basically gave up any profit margin they had.
Customers still had to do their own work to stop payment on their LO order. Then vortex spent time / resources to handle the orders direct to end users.
I don't recall anyone saying Vortex sent them one even though they couldn't pay vortex the discounted price after loosing money to scott.... maybe it happened, but that wasn't the process I was explained
The customers that were not able to stop payments are going to be the ones that still have a claim. If you were able to deal with your CC company to get your money back.... whatever happened after that was just vortex being nice, because there was no legal requirement for them to do ANY of what they did.
At this point the victims need to be categorized into two groups. The ones that managed to stop payment and the ones who couldn't get their money back at all.
Beyond that vortex was down right generous to step forward and spend time / resources to help people find out if their orders went through or if they were in the screwed group. They were also generous to sell the scopes at the discount that Scott was giving there at the end.
I can say as fact that if you are a small time shop and you contact vortex directly there is no way in hell you can get the scopes for the prices Scott was selling at the end of this craziness... maybe the huge / multi location / high volume places can, but I don't think they will come here and say so.
Summary;
Scott's still a crook
The only legal victims left are likely the ones that got no money back from Scott (and no scope from vortex)
Vortex and the folks that reached out to handle all this are exceptional examples of customer service and I hope it comes back to them exponentially in future sales and customers.
Thread Drift Reminder:
Scott Bad.
Vortex Good.
-Stan
Scott Bad.
Vortex Good.
-Stan
In no way did I mean to imply that Scott was anything close to a George/Jimmy, my point was that when we are in trouble we ought to swallow our pride and reach out and not spiral into the abyss as it appears Scott did in this situation.
Where did that information come from?
I had a credit with him due to some first-run shenanigans on the RIII where I paid the first listing price but got bumped out of the earliest run of the optic into a later run at a different price. Scott was more than willing to give me the difference on another optic to keep from canceling and re-ordering at the lower price, and he honored the price difference later.
I talked with Scott candidly about his business model and his dealer relationships with Vortex/Leupold/Sightron/Bushnell/Steiner, partly because he was saw a big influx of orders over the past few years driven by Reddit - with whom he didn't engage with - and whom he wasn't entirely pleased with due to the higher visibility, vendor/retailer presence on Reddit, and our open promotion of him as a vendor on multiple subs ranging from enthusiast subs to gun-part-sales subs.
He was pretty upfront about how things worked. He did group orders at pretty decent volumes in runs, months in advance of the scopes being made (instead of taking vendor current stock in-hand), which got him lower pricing because they could make money by direct shipping to him and not dealing with distribution on demand, sizing their orders appropriately, guaranteeing some of the scopes would be sold, etc.
His vendors, wanting to be in good graces with the competitive shooting community and get optics in the hands of enthusiasts repping their products, were more than happy to oblige as long as it didn't undercut the used market or become so big that it hurt brick and mortar or other online retailers.
In that sense, it was a very similar system to how ExpertsVoice or mil discounts work, but without the requirements to prove membership, plus a little off the top for Scott.
Customers generally understood that they could pay street price from anyone, or pay below street price to wait a quarter or more for the optic to be available.
And he was definitely making money on each optic sold when we started discussing the credit, what his pricing was and what he was pricing stuff at, which became an issue with a Snipershide pricing deal over the summer minus the sizeable credit.
Even as late as late July, it was completely apparent he had no intention of running off with the money or doing anything shady.
We talked at length about getting an SVIII in, whether it would be worth doing that over another RIII, what reticle options were coming and worth waiting for, and at no point did he push me into jumping on the RIII deal. I eventually committed to an RIII because I couldn't get the reticle I wanted on the SVIII, which was part of the batch that got turned upside down when he walked with the money.
And he was totally candid that he wouldn't accept the big chunk of money I was offering because it would have been a little below his acquisition cost for the optic, taking money out of his wallet. Not really a concern if you don't intend to fulfill the orders.
We don't really know, but I'm much more in favor of the idea that he needed to come up with money for lawyer fees when he lost his lawsuit against his job for wrongful termination - something I'm sure he was certain he would win - and didn't have capital or income stream to float that bill. So, he used the money he was holding to place the RIII orders and then realized how screwed he would be, panicked at the potentially years prison term for wire fraud+more, and went into hiding.
From conversation while tracking down if my last few orders were placed or just billed, and observing the sudden price incentive at the end
His pricing had for years beat what I could get personal scopes for using even the military discount, as well as military discount "events", and I couldn't beat his delivered price when reaching out to vortex to become a small time dealer.
l received scopes for several years from him every couple months.
At the end there were additional price drops on quotes and none of those scopes were ever ordered per vortex. We are not talking 20 bucks difference here either... so of course when a couple hundred dollar price drop showed up what does anyone with the funds do... order more...
Ok, so he didn't screw you during the original time he was in running a business...
You can find me suggesting him for YEARS before this event happened as well...
Ok, and he was going to tell you his side of a functioning business / or his side of a con based off when you had this conversation...
right up until he wasn't...
and that was the functional model for years and why he had to do the website link / pricing the way he did to not piss off OEMs and maintain MAP agreements
This is how all companies work...
They put out things such at map limits but you can sell the crap at cost as long as nobody advertised it and you don't need to make money...
expert voice gets some money from the deal as well so no difference.
Again still talking about before he turned crook though...
He wouldn't have been doing it for years up until the end if he wasn't..
Again you are talking about the time frame that he was still running above board...
I have scopes on rifles here of mine and customers that were purchased through him...
how many scopes do you think showed up from pricing given the last month?...
last month here he didnt mind giving extra discounts... vortex never got the orders though
You are like I was until the end. You spent thousands of dollars with him and received scopes after waiting, and you suggested friends to him and they received scopes, etc etc... so good guy / great price / can't beat him
Then you would spend time saying "no this must all just be a misunderstanding..." as I've been through this with several thousand dollar orders multiple times... then you find out all your end of life extra savings orders were apparently BS of a crook trying to cash out at his customers expense...
All that to say... who cares if he was mother mother Teresa before... he's a common crook now...
Most crooks had hard times / drug addictions / health problems / financial issues / etc...
Does that mean we should accept him taking money and be happy?...
I was burned early in life for 2 grand by a friend I thought I could trust, and I told the guy who burned me "thanks for teaching me a valuable lesson" which I never forgot.
Trust and money will never mix.
Gotta accept that or life is gonna chew you up and spit you out.
When it comes to money I couldn't trust some of my relatives.
The folks I could really trust in life you can count on the five toes of my right foot; Mom, Dad, and 2 of my "aunties" took up 4 toes.
Trust and money will never mix.
Gotta accept that or life is gonna chew you up and spit you out.
When it comes to money I couldn't trust some of my relatives.
The folks I could really trust in life you can count on the five toes of my right foot; Mom, Dad, and 2 of my "aunties" took up 4 toes.
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I don't own any guns- they all went down in a boating accident, so I'm immune to scumbags like him simply because I don't have a need. I'm just here for the hot MILF.
You must be confused, because this thread is all about Scott, the "Man I'd Love Financing."
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