If you had to take shots from standing or kneeling with or without support what would you want in terms of a stock and caliber. Consider this for target shooting. I am looking for the best in accuracy while at the lowest weight overall without significantly increasing recoil. Lot of trade offs. Range? As far as I can shoot accurately say a 24x19 steel unsupported or supported standing to kneeling supported basically no prone. I am not hugely strong in the upper body anymore so overall weight is an issue. Any caliber. Thoughts?
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Light weight long range?
- Thread starter Knight6
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So to put it another way. If you go back to the M40A1 you had a relatively light rifle but with good range. What would be a good modern equivalent?
Im not an expert by any means. But if you want low recoil... Id go with a 6.5 and maybe even put a brake on it to reduce recoil even further.
For the rifle Id probably pick a remmy 700 simply because every stock/chassis maker will work with them especially if you have to go specialised (Im guessing you need very light weight due to medical conditions)
As for the stock... well Ive never really gone looking for a light stocks. But I know mcmillan do an "ultralight" stock. Perhaps that would be a good start.
For the rifle Id probably pick a remmy 700 simply because every stock/chassis maker will work with them especially if you have to go specialised (Im guessing you need very light weight due to medical conditions)
As for the stock... well Ive never really gone looking for a light stocks. But I know mcmillan do an "ultralight" stock. Perhaps that would be a good start.
A good modern equivalent? An M40A1. Seriously, there is precious little wrong with the system. The A3-A5 series represents an adjustment, but not necessarily a fundamental improvement, in my opinion. That said, I prefer an aluminum bedding block and a Remington 700 (or Winchester Model 70 or Savage or Tikka or...) with a Bell & Carson stock is a fine tool. As far as caliber, there are many fine choices, but I still prefer the .308. I don't feel that the .308 has any noticeable recoil and it is a round that may be shot all day with minimal fatigue and long barrel life.
Push-ups and cardio. Shooting is a physical sport. This isn't Benchrest Shooters Hide, though it sometimes seems like it. Start by walking with a 10 lb weight. Then a 10 lb weight in each hand. After a few weeks, that 12 lb rifle will feel like a featherweight.
Push-ups and cardio. Shooting is a physical sport. This isn't Benchrest Shooters Hide, though it sometimes seems like it. Start by walking with a 10 lb weight. Then a 10 lb weight in each hand. After a few weeks, that 12 lb rifle will feel like a featherweight.
Thanks guys all good info'. Yes I do need to work out, but I am sadly getting older and everything gets just a little harder. I just look at a lot of rifles being developed and used and discussed and see everything getting heavier and heavier which starts affecting your ability, especially as an older shooter, to make good off hand shots and unsupported shots and these have their place. I currently run a 308 GAP AICS and once eveything is in it including decent slings as some support off hand and sling support shots get more difficult. I also run a Rem 700 in 223 but range is obviously limited but maybe only to ranges that one would try unsupported anyway. Of course I have an AR in 223 but was thinking of uping this to a 308. Just wanted to see what others thought. I am tempted by the Desert Tactical SRS, not just because of weight but also barrel length and overall length which will mean the weight is closer to the body making off hand and unsupported easier, or partial support easier. But I also want to get others ideas. Indeed the M40A1 is still a great rifle. So if anyone else wants to add or follow up I look forward to the information. Thanks again.
I'd probably concentrate more on a stiff, short, small-contour barrel for weight savings- that's where the bulk of the weight savings can be realized. You can cut pounds with barrels, but with a stock you're generally looking more at ounces.
I'm just getting a remmy fitted with a 20" fluted Bergara Barrel.
AICS Mag and have made myself a very light E-Tac stock weighing 29 Oz including adjustable cheek.
For hill hunting possibly a 6.5-20 Zeiss conquest and otherwise the K624i.
My previous rig with the same shaped but heavier stock and 23" Border Varmint barrel was ok to
shoot deer with off-hand so this lighter version should be easier to handle.
edi
AICS Mag and have made myself a very light E-Tac stock weighing 29 Oz including adjustable cheek.
For hill hunting possibly a 6.5-20 Zeiss conquest and otherwise the K624i.
My previous rig with the same shaped but heavier stock and 23" Border Varmint barrel was ok to
shoot deer with off-hand so this lighter version should be easier to handle.
edi
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I'm currently building a Creedmoor with a #5 fluted barrel, A-3 sporter stock. I'm hoping it comes in around 10 pounds.
Short barrel with full contour and aggressive fluting will get you there. The only big difference in stocks is gonna be chassis vs traditional. Chassis will always be heavier due to materials and you can only take so much weight out of a traditional. Find the best compromise between ergonomics, comfort and weight. Too often guys immediately go for the A4 style because it looks like the guns in call of duty but it adds size and weight from the tang back.
If you're hesitant about the recoil of a lightweight medium caliber(.30), then go as small as you can to get the job done. The last thing you want is a flinch because you went too light so if that may be an issue for you, better safe than sorry. 6mms are extremely competitive these days and are no slouches on the pdogs.
If you're hesitant about the recoil of a lightweight medium caliber(.30), then go as small as you can to get the job done. The last thing you want is a flinch because you went too light so if that may be an issue for you, better safe than sorry. 6mms are extremely competitive these days and are no slouches on the pdogs.
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Great info guys. This has given me a bunch of ideas to work on, thanks. More comments always welcome. I will work on a design and come back for comments.
Your biggest drivers in weight are the barrel and the stock.
Would you be ok with a top loader system, or do you want a detachable magazine (DBM)? If you're up for a top loader, Manners has these new, lightweight BDL mini-chassis designs that would probably meet your requirements. Don't get any of the adjustable cheekpiece hardware crap if you're looking for something lightweight; use a Triad or Eagle stockpack to raise up the comb instead.
For a barrel, you're going to need some compromises on length and weight. The more you cut down on length, the more you sacrifice speed. The more you slim down the profile, the quicker your barrel heats up and starts either affecting your point of impact (POI) or sight picture from heat waves in front of your objective. Personally, I don't like cutting my barrels less than 24" (223 Remington/rimfire aside). GAP's "Non-Typical" hunting style rifle has a 25" barrel, and it has a #3 Bartlein contour. Any barrels with a similar contour should work fine.
What range do you plan on shooting offhand? If you put on open sights you would save weight for the scope. Just keep that in mind, as the scope really won't be a huge weight driver provided you're not mounting a Razor HD with steel rings.
I would put flush cups on the side and get a TIS quick cuff or TAB gear sling to support the arm.
Would you be ok with a top loader system, or do you want a detachable magazine (DBM)? If you're up for a top loader, Manners has these new, lightweight BDL mini-chassis designs that would probably meet your requirements. Don't get any of the adjustable cheekpiece hardware crap if you're looking for something lightweight; use a Triad or Eagle stockpack to raise up the comb instead.
For a barrel, you're going to need some compromises on length and weight. The more you cut down on length, the more you sacrifice speed. The more you slim down the profile, the quicker your barrel heats up and starts either affecting your point of impact (POI) or sight picture from heat waves in front of your objective. Personally, I don't like cutting my barrels less than 24" (223 Remington/rimfire aside). GAP's "Non-Typical" hunting style rifle has a 25" barrel, and it has a #3 Bartlein contour. Any barrels with a similar contour should work fine.
What range do you plan on shooting offhand? If you put on open sights you would save weight for the scope. Just keep that in mind, as the scope really won't be a huge weight driver provided you're not mounting a Razor HD with steel rings.
I would put flush cups on the side and get a TIS quick cuff or TAB gear sling to support the arm.
Caliber wise I would recommend a 22-243 low recoil and it can push the big heavy .224's up too 3500 fps or so, so if you plan on going with a shorter barrel you have a little extra speed to work with. Other wise a .223 wssm would give you close to the same specs and let you shave a little weight off the action and bring the barrel weight a little closer to your body.
I've been contemplating a 20" PSS contoured .260 w/ a brake in a Manners EH2 with Badger Alloy M4 bottom metal. I don't think the EH2 can be had with the Mini-Chassis, but even if it were possible I will bed the gun rather than using the chassis simply because of the added weight.
The Steyr Scout is one of the finest engineered light rifles on the market today. Choose whatever caliber offered best fits your needs and hit the range.
Of course your physical size and strength will determine what is best for you as far as overall rifle weight.
I'm 52, 5'7", 168 lbs. I used to be strong for my size but that is changing rapidly. 5 years ago a 17 lb rifle (28" heavy varmint) was too heavy for me offhand, changed barrel to a lighter profile (Tubb contour) a couple years ago and I could handle 15 lbs, now that's too heavy for me in offhand position, next barrel will probably be light palma and somewhere around 13.5 lbs.
I'm 52, 5'7", 168 lbs. I used to be strong for my size but that is changing rapidly. 5 years ago a 17 lb rifle (28" heavy varmint) was too heavy for me offhand, changed barrel to a lighter profile (Tubb contour) a couple years ago and I could handle 15 lbs, now that's too heavy for me in offhand position, next barrel will probably be light palma and somewhere around 13.5 lbs.
I'm projecting my next build will be somewhere around 12lb (optics included). I guess that's fairly light compared to some of the rifles I've seen around here.
22" .260 barrel, "sendero" contour finished at 22", fluted
Manners MCS-T
Rem 700 SS SA
PTG bottom metal
EGW 20 MOA base
Warne 34mm rings
Leupold mk6 3-18x44 TMR
Guestimating and going off of published weights I'm looking at right around or just shy of 12lb unloaded. I know I'm losing quite a bit of velocity cutting a .260 down to 22", but to be honest I'm happy with anything over 2700fps with 140's. I'm looking for 600yd kills on medium game at a maximum, and 1200yd targets, but mostly inside of 800. My main objective here is that I can carry the rifle for a few miles up and down mountains and not absolutely hate it while maintaining a heavy enough profile to shoot a 10-15 round string and not worry about losing accuracy or stringing or any other craziness.
22" .260 barrel, "sendero" contour finished at 22", fluted
Manners MCS-T
Rem 700 SS SA
PTG bottom metal
EGW 20 MOA base
Warne 34mm rings
Leupold mk6 3-18x44 TMR
Guestimating and going off of published weights I'm looking at right around or just shy of 12lb unloaded. I know I'm losing quite a bit of velocity cutting a .260 down to 22", but to be honest I'm happy with anything over 2700fps with 140's. I'm looking for 600yd kills on medium game at a maximum, and 1200yd targets, but mostly inside of 800. My main objective here is that I can carry the rifle for a few miles up and down mountains and not absolutely hate it while maintaining a heavy enough profile to shoot a 10-15 round string and not worry about losing accuracy or stringing or any other craziness.
Here is one of my winter projects:
Rem700 receiver w/ PTG one-piece bolt
Manners MCS-T stock (90% carbon fiber)
Surgeon DBM bottom metal with Alpha Type 3 mags
Bartlein #3 barrel chambered in 7mm WSM and finished at 26"
Seekins rail/rings
Please pardon the ugliness, as the metal and stock haven't yet received any finish (still trying to decide on a color scheme).
It's about 10.5lbs "bare" and 12.5lbs with optics/bipod/stock pack as shown in the photo (the scope is just on there for testing purposes - it'll get a smaller optic in the future, which will probably take off a half-pound).
Obviously, such a setup could be chambered in any short-action caliber. Something like a .243 or .260 would be very comfortable to shoot at this weight.
Rem700 receiver w/ PTG one-piece bolt
Manners MCS-T stock (90% carbon fiber)
Surgeon DBM bottom metal with Alpha Type 3 mags
Bartlein #3 barrel chambered in 7mm WSM and finished at 26"
Seekins rail/rings
Please pardon the ugliness, as the metal and stock haven't yet received any finish (still trying to decide on a color scheme).
It's about 10.5lbs "bare" and 12.5lbs with optics/bipod/stock pack as shown in the photo (the scope is just on there for testing purposes - it'll get a smaller optic in the future, which will probably take off a half-pound).
Obviously, such a setup could be chambered in any short-action caliber. Something like a .243 or .260 would be very comfortable to shoot at this weight.
I just built a lightweight tactical rig for matches 600yds and in, that have lots of positional, non-prone shooting. Specs:
21" Kreiger 9twist Remington Varmint
6.5x47L chamber
Manners T2 w/ mini-chassis
Trued Remington 700
Premier Light Tactical 3-15x
Seekins Rings
LRA bipod
Weight all in w/o ammo: hair under 13lbs (could probably shave some oz off by going with a lighter bipod, but I do love the LRA).
Shooting a pointed 107gr SMK at 3000fps using RL-15 or N540. Very nice compared to my 26" barrels and for 600yds and in, giving up very little ballistically with the lighter bullet. Feels a lot lighter because you aren't fighting that torque force from the long barrel. Center of gravity so much closer to you.
A benefit of short barrels is you don't need to run heavy contours to get stiff barrel. My 21" has something like 23% less barrel deflection than my 26" barrel w/ M40 contour profile.
Good luck with your build!
21" Kreiger 9twist Remington Varmint
6.5x47L chamber
Manners T2 w/ mini-chassis
Trued Remington 700
Premier Light Tactical 3-15x
Seekins Rings
LRA bipod
Weight all in w/o ammo: hair under 13lbs (could probably shave some oz off by going with a lighter bipod, but I do love the LRA).
Shooting a pointed 107gr SMK at 3000fps using RL-15 or N540. Very nice compared to my 26" barrels and for 600yds and in, giving up very little ballistically with the lighter bullet. Feels a lot lighter because you aren't fighting that torque force from the long barrel. Center of gravity so much closer to you.
A benefit of short barrels is you don't need to run heavy contours to get stiff barrel. My 21" has something like 23% less barrel deflection than my 26" barrel w/ M40 contour profile.
Good luck with your build!
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