Lightweight Hunting Build- Deer-Yotes 0-800yds? .243 Tikka + Bushnell LRS G2

[serevince]

Looking for advice and first hand experience with the items I'm using in my build. The Tikkas and Bushnell LRS have great reps, but I'm seeing a lot of the LRS show up for sale from people saying it's not enough magnification.

I am doing a backcountry mule deer hunt next month and my 260 is a TANK at about 14lbs. I do not want to haul it around the mountains, and I needed an excuse for another build. We'll be above the treeline and it's pretty open, so I want some reach. I've been shooting the 260 and learning, and feel pretty confident on MOAish targets out to 880 in steady winds. Near 100% First round hits on a 5" square at 500. I'll figure out my comfort zone with the .243 when I work it up. Currently shooting a SWFA 3-15 on my 260 and really want to try the G2 reticle. I think it'll be just the ticket for hunting. Weight is a consideration, but I plan on this being an all around rifle.

The following is on the way:

Phase 1

Tikka T3 Lite .243 (Plan to shoot it like I stole it and rebarrel in 6 Creedmore when the barrel goes).
Vortex precision rings (low)
EGW 20 MOA base
Bushnell LRS 3-12 G2(?)

Redding Type S die
270 bushing
271 bushing
Redding Seating die
Berger 95gr Classic Hunter
H4350
PP .243 Brass

Phase II
XLR Element (may make it in time for the hunt, haven't checked lead time yet.)
Bolt fluting for the hell of it
Swept bolt knob
Spray bomb camo, or may work a trade with local guy for some Cerakote action.

Am I missing anything? Looking to do a fast turn on this so if you have a favorite load with the Berger Classic Hunters I'd love to hear it! Gonna push it, since I'm not too concerned with barrel life. After mulies it's Yote time so, I'll probably work up a lighter pill as well. I already have a keg of H4350, so I'm going to stick with that. Hodgens says 42gr max with 95 NBTs, so I'll start working in the 39+ ballpark, in the lands and go from there.

Thanks

Vince

 

[roggom]

Only suggestion would be to go with some DNZ or Talley rings upfront as the only crappy part of a Tikka are the factory rings. Either should only set you back $50 or so, and then you can resell them when you buy the Seekins.

Funny thing, once you get your rifle together and feel how light it is, you wont want to change anything.

 

[Graywolf.260]

You will probably get some flack about hunting deer with a .243 but it is effective within reasonable range. Don't know about the Bergers but TTSX with 43 gr H4350 kicks ass, that combo has dropped many mule deer for me with no issues. You can save weight and money going with talley lightweight low or extra low rings instead of the rail.

 

[terrell35744]

I set up my tikka t3 243 with a manner elite hunter , cdi bottom metal , tally 30mm rings , leupold mk4 2-8 tmr with M 2 knobs. I shoot the Berger 95 classic hunters just off the lands loaded with 42.7 of r22 in a Remington case ( neck turned 60% clean up) Winchester large rifle primers. 7.7lb loaded out the door it was a dream to carry on my elk hunt this last year and the 95 bergers did a hell of a job on the cow I shot.

I also plan on having mine rebarrel when I shoot it out but I'm going to ED at butch's reloading put a barrel on it 6-47 lapua he built a match gun on a tikka t3 for a friend and it shoots lights out. They are also the place that I got all my 95 gr classic bullets from.

Sean

 

[serevince]

Factory stock 1lb 12oz
XLR Element 3lbs 10oz

So rifle without ammo, scope, rings, sling, etc would go from 6ish (factory) to 8ish lbs(Element). Add scope and rings and it's 10lbs even with the Element.

I like the adjustability of the Element and the folding option is a huge plus for transport. I'm guessing I'll be able to spot my own shots with a 10lb .243. Uses AI mags (already have for .260).

Factory is 2lbs lighter and has excellent reviews. Simple. No adjustability, so it may end up with a tumor on the cheek pad. Free with rifle! Increase in recoil, but how much? Enough to make the difference in spotting shots?

Torn, but since the long term plan is to and make this my all around gun in 6 Creedmore for hunting, attending classes, and local matches, the Element is calling to me for versatility.

I'm only 39 and in OK shape. 2lbs is 2lbs, especially on the mountain, but it won't kill me. Still saving 4lbs and lots of length over my 26" barrel+ brake, fixed stock .260.

Vince

 

[Elite_KG]

Any distance outside of about 300 yards with a .243 is not reasonable for killing deer much less mule deer. If you plan on shooting past that you may want to consider another caliber. I personally wouldn't shoot anything beyond about 400 yards max and that would be under pristine conditions with proper set-up. 800 yards is just not sporting anymore. Unless you have many proven kills working your way up to distances such as 400-500 yards and beyond, I wouldn't even talk about 800 yards. Plinking steel at the range is far different than shooting game in the field.
Practice on the yotes at distance and build up your confidence and skill. The 243 would be awesome for the dogs at longer range. I say that because wounding them is not such a loss as wounding a nice deer.

 

[Cobracutter]

For a hunting rifle, this is zero reason to go with a chassis. The stock, Stock, is very good for what it is.

Get a Taley 20MOA base and a good set of rings. Skip the DNZ and other cheap shit. Build a good foundation and your rifle will serve you well.

FWIW, the KRG WC3 chassis blows the XLR out of the water. An Xray folder (if they make one) would be the way to go for a hunting rig if you need to chassis up.

 

[serevince]

Any distance outside of about 300 yards with a .243 is not reasonable for killing deer much less mule deer. If you plan on shooting past that you may want to consider another caliber. I personally wouldn't shoot anything beyond about 400 yards max and that would be under pristine conditions with proper set-up. 800 yards is just not sporting anymore. Unless you have many proven kills working your way up to distances such as 400-500 yards and beyond, I wouldn't even talk about 800 yards. Plinking steel at the range is far different than shooting game in the field.
Practice on the yotes at distance and build up your confidence and skill. The 243 would be awesome for the dogs at longer range. I say that because wounding them is not such a loss as wounding a nice deer.

I respect your decision. Ethical shooting ranges are a personal decision for everyone. I base mine on my weapons and my abilities. I'm 100% confident under 500yds, and would have no problems stretching that given perfect conditions. That is not false confidence or hubris, and I don't take my responsibility as a hunter to make a clean kill lightly. That is experience from lots of range time, shooting from field positions, in varying conditions.

I rely on shot placement and proper bullet selection, not payload. .243 is a proven killer up to elk at considerable ranges.

For a hunting rifle, this is zero reason to go with a chassis. The stock, Stock, is very good for what it is.

Get a Taley 20MOA base and a good set of rings. Skip the DNZ and other cheap shit. Build a good foundation and your rifle will serve you well.

FWIW, the KRG WC3 chassis blows the XLR out of the water. An Xray folder (if they make one) would be the way to go for a hunting rig if you need to chassis up.

I don't see any immediate advantages in the WC3 on paper? It's a pound heavier and all you get is tooless adjustment of the stock? I do like the folding mechanism, but I can't say it's worth the premium in weight and $. I assume your thinking of the XLR Chassis and not the Element.The Element is simple and basic for a reason.

 

[Cobracutter]

There is alot more to the design and modularity of the KRG.

When you look at the background of who makes/owns KRG and who makes the XLR, it starts to make a little sense.

 

[roggom]

Well, I would not call the DNZ ring cheap shit, they are a solid one piece rings CNC cut here in the USA. Not the purdiest ring set out there, but they are are a lower ring and keep the scope close to the receiver. Aftermarket one piece base and rings will put that scope up high and with a factory stock you end up with a chin weld.

With the Chassis or a stock with a adjustable comb, its a non issue.

IMHO I dont see the advantage of a chassis system in the mountains, especially when most shots are offhand or tree supported. Unless you are hunting off shelves, cross canyon.

 

[noliver]

+1 for Talley light weight rings.

 

[Cobracutter]

Well, I would not call the DNZ ring cheap shit, they are a solid one piece rings CNC cut here in the USA. Not the purdiest ring set out there, but they are are a lower ring and keep the scope close to the receiver. Aftermarket one piece base and rings will put that scope up high and with a factory stock you end up with a chin weld.

With the Chassis or a stock with a adjustable comb, its a non issue.

IMHO I dont see the advantage of a chassis system in the mountains, especially when most shots are offhand or tree supported. Unless you are hunting off shelves, cross canyon.

Have a set that came on a T3 I bought last year. They felt cheap and and the fit/finish is unimpressive. You get what you pay for.

If you like them, PM and I will send them to you for free. They are collecting dust in a box somewhere.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Any distance outside of about 300 yards with a .243 is not reasonable for killing deer much less mule deer. If you plan on shooting past that you may want to consider another caliber. I personally wouldn't shoot anything beyond about 400 yards max and that would be under pristine conditions with proper set-up. 800 yards is just not sporting anymore. Unless you have many proven kills working your way up to distances such as 400-500 yards and beyond, I wouldn't even talk about 800 yards. Plinking steel at the range is far different than shooting game in the field.
Practice on the yotes at distance and build up your confidence and skill. The 243 would be awesome for the dogs at longer range. I say that because wounding them is not such a loss as wounding a nice deer.

300 yard max for deer with a .243? Do you have personal experience to come to this conclusion? I've used mine to drop more than a few at ranges past that. Never had a problem and most never took a second shot or went far at all, certainly not fast now 800, that's stretching it a bit but I fully expect a .243 loaded well and shot well to be a 500 yard deer rifle. I can't speak for Muleys but white tails for sure.

 

[jakelly]

Yeah I've not gone 600 or over on animals with the 243, but @ 500 and under it hits like an axe.

 

[Elite_KG]

300 yard max for deer with a .243? Do you have personal experience to come to this conclusion? I've used mine to drop more than a few at ranges past that. Never had a problem and most never took a second shot or went far at all, certainly not fast now 800, that's stretching it a bit but I fully expect a .243 loaded well and shot well to be a 500 yard deer rifle. I can't speak for Muleys but white tails for sure.

Yes I have experience to make my personal choice in the matter. My first and longtime deer rifle was a .243 . This is one of those indefinite topics as there is no firm line. A 243 can be effective well beyond 300 yards given the shot is well placed; many times in hunting things don't go as planned. I simply stated there are better choices and the OP stated his purpose of use and requested advice. I gave him mine. And to note I'm not a magnum caliber junkie pushing the use of mini-cannons on deer.
So without stirring up a shit storm of what caliber and personal use, let's just leave it as I offered my advice; I didn't state "fact", "rule" or "law."
The OP already listened and made his personal decision as is his prerogative. If he is confident in that selection, then great! .243 is a nice round with a broad spectrum of uses.

 

[SWRichmond]

Maybe I should stay the hell out of this thread, but you posted this looking for opinions. I think you are setting yourself up for some messy results.

Brian Litz's new book describes taking a statistical approach to solving ballistic questions, as opposed to a deterministic one. This methodology attempts to show, among other things, the impact at various distances of selected normal statistical variation in cartridge performance and shooter performance. The examples include showing results on modeled computer runs of many shots taken at various sizes of targets (5", 10", 15", and IPSC sil) with variations in bullet impact affected by a) velocity SD, b) weapon / shooter precision in MOA, c) the accuracy of range estimation, and d) the accuracy of wind speed estimation, among others.

So your description of your hunting ranges begs several questions. Completely ignoring all other very real variables, using the only the trajectory-drift calculator at jbmballistics, with the Berger 95gr classic hunter at 3k fps, it can easily be seen that a 1mph wind causes a 9.2 inch deflection at 800 yards, and 12.4 inches at 900 yards. What do you consider the vital area of your target to be? The jbmballistics result shows that a 1mph wind estimation error will cause a miss of between 9 and 12 inches at your stated max range, and that is assuming a perfect SD of zero, perfect precision, and perfect range estimation, none of which are possible.

The JBM result also shows that, at 800 yards, your chosen bullet retains only 473 ft-lbs of energy, and spends more than a full second in the air. A lot can happen in the field in a full second. The wind downrange can quite easily change that quickly, for example, as I have personally seen happen many times on the range, comfortably set up with spotting scope etc. And with ever-decreasing kinetic energy, the precision of shot placement plays an increasing role, not a decreasing one. So you are guaranteed to be hitting your target with much less killing force in a much likely less vital spot at extended ranges. I think that makes your max ranges worth reconsidering.

JMO.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Yes I have experience to make my personal choice in the matter. My first and longtime deer rifle was a .243 . This is one of those indefinite topics as there is no firm line. A 243 can be effective well beyond 300 yards given the shot is well placed; many times in hunting things don't go as planned. I simply stated there are better choices and the OP stated his purpose of use and requested advice. I gave him mine. And to note I'm not a magnum caliber junkie pushing the use of mini-cannons on deer.
So without stirring up a shit storm of what caliber and personal use, let's just leave it as I offered my advice; I didn't state "fact", "rule" or "law."
The OP already listened and made his personal decision as is his prerogative. If he is confident in that selection, then great! .243 is a nice round with a broad spectrum of uses.

Just making sure it wasn't another piece of advice given as fact with no personal experience. I didn't mean to come off aggressive at all or claim you don't know, just making sure. I do feel 800 is too much though and there may be better options. Not a magnum either.

 

[serevince]

Some great points, and I appreciate the information. I'll have no real clue of my max acceptable range until I finish load developement and get some time behind the gun. 300yds may end up being my max based on the performance of this bullet/ powder combo in this rifle. Not to mention my ability behind it. I'm guessing at around 6lbs lighter than my .260 it will be much less forgiving to shooter inputs. I'll be disappointed if I can't consistent hits out to 500 from field positions in mild wind conditions. If that is the case, I'll likely fall back to my .260 and suffer the weight penalty. The area we are hunting is above the tree line, wide open and criss crossed with talus slopes. Stalking close is feasible, but obviously a much lower percentage game.

Thanks

Vince

 

[serevince]

Maybe I should stay the hell out of this thread, but you posted this looking for opinions. I think you are setting yourself up for some messy results.

Brian Litz's new book describes taking a statistical approach to solving ballistic questions, as opposed to a deterministic one. This methodology attempts to show, among other things, the impact at various distances of selected normal statistical variation in cartridge performance and shooter performance. The examples include showing results on modeled computer runs of many shots taken at various sizes of targets (5", 10", 15", and IPSC sil) with variations in bullet impact affected by a) velocity SD, b) weapon / shooter precision in MOA, c) the accuracy of range estimation, and d) the accuracy of wind speed estimation, among others.

So your description of your hunting ranges begs several questions. Completely ignoring all other very real variables, using the only the trajectory-drift calculator at jbmballistics, with the Berger 95gr classic hunter at 3k fps, it can easily be seen that a 1mph wind causes a 9.2 inch deflection at 800 yards, and 12.4 inches at 900 yards. What do you consider the vital area of your target to be? The jbmballistics result shows that a 1mph wind estimation error will cause a miss of between 9 and 12 inches at your stated max range, and that is assuming a perfect SD of zero, perfect precision, and perfect range estimation, none of which are possible.

The JBM result also shows that, at 800 yards, your chosen bullet retains only 473 ft-lbs of energy, and spends more than a full second in the air. A lot can happen in the field in a full second. The wind downrange can quite easily change that quickly, for example, as I have personally seen happen many times on the range, comfortably set up with spotting scope etc. And with ever-decreasing kinetic energy, the precision of shot placement plays an increasing role, not a decreasing one. So you are guaranteed to be hitting your target with much less killing force in a much likely less vital spot at extended ranges. I think that makes your max ranges worth reconsidering.

JMO.

Used those same numbers to come up with 5.49" of drift at 800 and 7.28" at 900? G7 BC 0f .219 at 3k. I did use actual altitude of 2000ft, but that doesn't account for the difference. Altitude for the hunt will be around 5-6k. Shockingly little difference in drop/drift from my 260 and 140 VLDs at 2850.

 

[SWRichmond]

I input a wind speed of 1mph. The effect of wind is not exactly linear.

 

[serevince]

Regardless, at 800yds assuming the rifle and I both are shooting .5 MOA. 4" + the 5.5" for 1mph of wind is at the ragged edge of a deers kill zone. Not enough margin of error for me at this time. I'm not saying it's not within the realm of possibilities. If you put a 10" steel at 800yds most of us would bang that thing all day long.

 

[6.5BR]

I'd prefer a 6.5 or 7mm to 800 yds, that said - I am all about good bullets/placement thru vitals. Farthest deer kill = 6BR/105Amax/2850 mv ~ 400 yds, double lunged.

I'd run a 243 to 500 yds, perhaps a tad more with ideal conditions, meaning known range/wind and many rounds under my belt at said range. I want 2200 fps minimum as a floor for expansion, esp in a small cal. Just me.

For 600-800 I'd be looking at a 6.5x55, 270, even 7mag. 308/06 will perform too. The 260 and Creedmoor along with 7/08 can reach more too. Where you are planning to hunt, what is your TYPICAL ranges? No doubt the 243 is a great LR varmint round. LR big game - depends who you ask.

 

[serevince]

I'd prefer a 6.5 or 7mm to 800 yds, that said - I am all about good bullets/placement thru vitals. Farthest deer kill = 6BR/105Amax/2850 mv ~ 400 yds, double lunged.

I'd run a 243 to 500 yds, perhaps a tad more with ideal conditions, meaning known range/wind and many rounds under my belt at said range. I want 2200 fps minimum as a floor for expansion, esp in a small cal. Just me.

For 600-800 I'd be looking at a 6.5x55, 270, even 7mag. 308/06 will perform too. The 260 and Creedmoor along with 7/08 can reach more too. Where you are planning to hunt, what is your TYPICAL ranges? No doubt the 243 is a great LR varmint round. LR big game - depends who you ask.

I agree. Just from the math alone on my selected bullets it looks like 500yds is going to be the reasonable limit. Ultimately based on my performance with this rifle. Now, yotes and other smaller critters, I'll push out farther. [emoji48]

 

[6.5BR]

BTW, I have that very rifle in SS, great choice FWIW, I have used many 6mm bullets from 70-105 on deer/hogs in BR and 243. The 95 NBT is my fave all around. Others will do well, and shot placement is key, in any round, as you know. Having shot 1/2" 200 yd groups with that bullet in a Dakota BR w/10t - I am sold on the combo of accuracy and lethality. BC enough for ranges I will use. I suspect the Berger will take it a little further out. On varmints, I would not rule out the 87 Vmax. Under 400 yds, TNT 70gr are hell on yotes and down, and I dumped one deer double lunged via 6BR ala 3400 mv, ran 60 yds and tipped over, another neck shot at 45 yds, DRT - damned near tore the head off!! Whatever bullet used, one simply needs to understand design and terminal performance and choose shot placement accordingly. I.E. Soft bullets = soft targets i.e. no shoulder/hind end shots w/TNT or AMAX, unless LR has slowed speed.

Good hunting. Should be a 1/2 MOA rifle. Not sure about PP brass, but Fed/WW along w/Noz and Lapua is good to go IME.

 

[silhouette]

I have a Tikka Varmint 7mm08 with the new 3-12 LRHS, EGW rail and TPS rings in a GRS hunter stock and I love it.
I have no experience with a 243 but I think the scope is well suited to your application.
It weighs in at about 11.5 lbs and is my "go to" rifle.

 

[rgrmike]

I also built a rifle this year for an elk hunt in Colorado. I have a MK13ish 300WM and it was tipping the scales at 16.4 lbs with a 5-25 S&B. I couldn't imagine hunting with it and wanted to drop some poundage. I called Mark at SAC and we came up with something that would be lighter for hunting but still capable of shooting at matches, courses etc if I ever got the time.

KRG X-Ray
Defiance Stryker Ridge SA
Bartlein Med Palma spiral flutes 24" threaded
.260 Rem
Seeking 20MOA rail
9.6lbs unscoped

NF 3-15x50 with NF UL rings
11.6 lbs on bathroom scale Rifle/Scope/Loaded

Not the lightest thing but a compromise in a lot of areas. I'd rather have a little extra weight and be confident behind the gun. I'm 30yrs old and stay in pretty good shape all year. If I was doing a sheep gun/above timberline gun I'd do the same thing except a Manners EH2, Bartlein #3, and try to save some weight on the glass…Maybe a LRHS. Good luck with your build!

 

[serevince]

Got everything in and was able to hit the range last evening.

The Tikka is everything claimed. Smooth action, awesome trigger.

Was making 3060fps avg with the 85gr Fed Premium Trophy Copper. Better than I expected given the 22" barrel.

Still planning on the Element chassis. Just could not settle in and get comfortable behind the hunting stock. Personal preference, not a inherent problem.

Light was fading and I didn't get much done, but was happy with the initial impressions of the Bushnell and G2.

 

[SWRichmond]

I do dearly love getting to know a new rifle....enjoy!