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Lilja versus bartlein barrels
- Thread starter 42N8 1
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My Lilja’s have always been very nice. I prefer cut rifling in general though. I’m not sure Lilja is available at some of the barrel vendors like bugholes. Too easy these days to point/click for a Bartlein or Krieger etc.
I find the best source for information about barrel manufacturers to be the recent competition results. These shooters frequently replace barrels. As manufacturers replace tooling, improve processes or materials, the trophy for 'top dog' changes hands every few years. That being said, a great barrel won't be a good shooter unless it is chambered well and threaded accurately. Do your research and shopping wisely.
The most accurate rifle I own has a Lilja #3 contour barrel on it. But I think its just a good barrel that was chambered and installed by a great gunsmith who could probably get any barrel to shoot
I've owned both. They both shoot great. I have a Bartlein on now but if I found a good deal on a Lilja I wouldn't hesitate to get one again for my next build. Like b6graham said it is hard to get a bad custom these days.
Go to any National F Class match and the predominant barrels are cut rifled barrels such as Bartlein, Brux or Krieger. Shot them all in different rifle configurations and have all shot well. Have several Schneider barrels which are button rifled like Lilga and have been shooters as well. As mentioned above how accurately the barrel is chambered is a critical factor how a rifle performs.
Echo the same as those above.
Dan and Company makes fine button barrels.
Tracy and Company makes fine cut barrels.
Chevy vs Ford....
Dan and Company makes fine button barrels.
Tracy and Company makes fine cut barrels.
Chevy vs Ford....
I used to install a metric shit ton of Lilja barrels. At Nesika we used them almost exclusively.
Performance was never an issue. Having to continuously explain myself was however. OD to ID concentricity was a problem. When you dial a bore and have upwards of a 16th worth of run out you can bet that your going to get a phone call. Fitting a brake to that is a real problem when it's from Vaise. Call for help and you get crickets. . .
In today's world there is no reason to settle for that. It's a buyers paradise.
Any marquee brand will produce the required accuracy. It's the details like what I've just described that make the difference. This is where a shooter needs to lean on his shop of choice for advise because they typically install a whole lot more of these than end users.
Performance was never an issue. Having to continuously explain myself was however. OD to ID concentricity was a problem. When you dial a bore and have upwards of a 16th worth of run out you can bet that your going to get a phone call. Fitting a brake to that is a real problem when it's from Vaise. Call for help and you get crickets. . .
In today's world there is no reason to settle for that. It's a buyers paradise.
Any marquee brand will produce the required accuracy. It's the details like what I've just described that make the difference. This is where a shooter needs to lean on his shop of choice for advise because they typically install a whole lot more of these than end users.
I have had Several dozen barrels of many top makes fitted by top smiths. In that time I have had two that shot substandard. The only two Lilja’s I tried.
I received poor CS on both.
Might have been bad luck.
I received poor CS on both.
Might have been bad luck.
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Not a fan of their CS like @rth1800 said. Had an issue with my barrel. told me to change my load to a dumb slow charge weight and jump it .130"
Ive never had a barrel that required that. It was obvious he didnt want to do anything to help.
Not to mention, its approximately 100fps slower than most other barrels with the same bullet/charge weight.
Ive never had a barrel that required that. It was obvious he didnt want to do anything to help.
Not to mention, its approximately 100fps slower than most other barrels with the same bullet/charge weight.
When we we’re starting Bartlein Tracy and I we’re offered a job at a button barrel maker. I politely and respectfully declined the offer. I was asked why by the owner. I said we know the short comings of button barrels and I couldn’t work at a place where I didn’t believe in the product/think that we we’re making the best.
All of the top short range BR shooters, top F class shooters and even the majority of the PRS shooters are shooting cut rifled barrels.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
All of the top short range BR shooters, top F class shooters and even the majority of the PRS shooters are shooting cut rifled barrels.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Speaking of Lilja...OD, ID relationship is often WAY off. Bores are not nearly as straight, often with two different curve directions rather than the usual single gentle curve. Contouring is inconsistent, often with a low spot ahead of the taper. Like Chad said, they can cause phone calls. Doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t shoot well. Something else I noticed, and it might be my imagination, but the bandsaw falls through them easier than other barrels.
Bartlein barrels are exceptional. Always.
Bartlein barrels are exceptional. Always.
Since this has morphed into a barrel plug campaign, I'll throw my two bits in it: Kenny Johnson of K&P barrels located in Rapid City, SD.
Ken is my "go-to" guy. The relationship started around 5 years ago and we've been thick as thieves ever since. K&P barrels are single-point cut rifled. I like that process much better from a machining standpoint because the steel is harder. Crunchy stainless just makes a better chip.
Accuracy is on par with any other marquee brand. What really sold me is the customer service. I buy a lot of product. On the rare (very rare) occasion that there has been an issue, he's 20 minutes from my door. When I approach him with an issue he literally looks at me, shrugs his shoulders, says "well that sucks", takes the old stick from me, and within 24 hours I have a new one.
Yes, within 24 hours I have a new one. Now, I do buy a lot from him so there is some favoritism I'm sure, however, the mere fact that he takes my word at face value and doesn't sit there and piss and moan over it goes a long, long, long way.
For the record this has happened 6 times in the 5+ years we've been doing business.
-Just another name to throw in the hat.
Ken is my "go-to" guy. The relationship started around 5 years ago and we've been thick as thieves ever since. K&P barrels are single-point cut rifled. I like that process much better from a machining standpoint because the steel is harder. Crunchy stainless just makes a better chip.
Accuracy is on par with any other marquee brand. What really sold me is the customer service. I buy a lot of product. On the rare (very rare) occasion that there has been an issue, he's 20 minutes from my door. When I approach him with an issue he literally looks at me, shrugs his shoulders, says "well that sucks", takes the old stick from me, and within 24 hours I have a new one.
Yes, within 24 hours I have a new one. Now, I do buy a lot from him so there is some favoritism I'm sure, however, the mere fact that he takes my word at face value and doesn't sit there and piss and moan over it goes a long, long, long way.
For the record this has happened 6 times in the 5+ years we've been doing business.
-Just another name to throw in the hat.
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I have a bartlien the are excellent. Liljas are also excellent. However my best shooting rifle is a Remington with a Mike Rock 18” m40 taper, 5R stainless 30 cal. I would also consider them as well.
Cut Rifled Barrels
The flagship of Rock Creek Barrels’ product line is the single point cut rifled barrel. These barrels are manufactured on twin spindle hydraulic Pratt & Whitney rifling machines and are avail…
www.rockcreekbarrels.com
I'll preface my choices with the caveat that I currently prefer .236 instead of .237 in the bore of 6mm and normally 4-groove over 5R.
Kreiger
Brux
Bartlein
Hawk HIll
Hart
No, Lilja isn't on the list.
Krieger is first because they are the most prolific 4-groove with my vendors. If no one has what I want in Krieger then I will go Brux. That said, I've owned some fantastic shooting Bartlein 5R barrels and I would buy more Bartlein if my vendors had more choices in 4-groove.
I have one chambered HH barrel right now and it shoots very well. I also have a 6mm blank that is waiting for a project (unknown as of yet). For a while, a few years back, I shot only Hart barrels in short-range and long-range BR and had some very good results.
Kreiger
Brux
Bartlein
Hawk HIll
Hart
No, Lilja isn't on the list.
Krieger is first because they are the most prolific 4-groove with my vendors. If no one has what I want in Krieger then I will go Brux. That said, I've owned some fantastic shooting Bartlein 5R barrels and I would buy more Bartlein if my vendors had more choices in 4-groove.
I have one chambered HH barrel right now and it shoots very well. I also have a 6mm blank that is waiting for a project (unknown as of yet). For a while, a few years back, I shot only Hart barrels in short-range and long-range BR and had some very good results.
Not sure it was bad luck. I had a terrible experience with a 6.5 Grendel Barrel from Lilja. The gas port had a burr protruding in the bore and there was surface rust in the extension and on the outside of the barrel. The owner gave me a really hard time, claiming this was "normal" from storage and that the burr would go away after shooting (I couldn't get it with a bore brush). After an extended email exchange he finally agreed to take it back and refund my money. I'd never buy another barrel from Lilja based on that experience. Way to many other good barrel makers out there. I have had nothing but good experiences with the Bartleins and Proofs I've used.
As someone who comes from a strong metallurgic background I am pretty in tune with the cause and effects of alloys and what happens to them when you put them through various operations... that being said, I recently had first hand experience with a button barrel on a friends rifle which he was having accuracy issues with. Fortunately we are in the same neighborhood as Bartlein Barrels and we were able to take the rifle over to meet with Todd and Frank to try and diagnose the problem, after thoroughly inspecting the bore via bore scope Frank pulled out a set of gauge pins and started inserting different sizes into the bore until he found what he was looking for... (Here’s where cut barrels jumped a way up on my list from button sticks..) After inserting these pins working up in size 1/10th of a thou at a time the pins stoped going into the bore as far as the previous ones, This was caused by a combination of the stress that is put on the blank during the button rifling process and the fact that this particular barrel had a threaded muzzle. When that muzzle was turned down in size the material rebounded back outward because reinforcing material was removed. In theory this shouldn’t happen on a single cut barrel because the initial stress of forcing a square peg through a round hole is never there. This ultimately left me wondering how consistent the bore is on a button barrel especially when considering contouring and there removal of different amounts of material at different points on the barrel. This is alarming to me and I think it should be for anyone who is looking for perfection. After all what’s the sense of spending the thousands of dollars and putting in the countless hours we all dedicate to this if we are just going to cut corners at one if not the most critical part of a rifle...
I own a k&p barrel that was chambered by Chad and I have nothing but good things to say about the accuracy on that particular rifle and the quality of the fit and finish
In regards to Bartlein Barrels I can guarantee
that you will not find better customer service in the industry, The knowledge in that building is incredible and I greatly appreciate every bit of advice and all the help that I have received from Todd, Scott, Mike and Frank! They have both gone above and beyond to help me in this sport and I can tell that they truly care about the future of the shooting community!
I own a k&p barrel that was chambered by Chad and I have nothing but good things to say about the accuracy on that particular rifle and the quality of the fit and finish
In regards to Bartlein Barrels I can guarantee
that you will not find better customer service in the industry, The knowledge in that building is incredible and I greatly appreciate every bit of advice and all the help that I have received from Todd, Scott, Mike and Frank! They have both gone above and beyond to help me in this sport and I can tell that they truly care about the future of the shooting community!
Both great brands.
Krieger has been one of my favorite brands as of late. But I'll agree that Bartlein and Brux are excellent barrels, along with Benchmark and Hawkhill.
Just curious sir, do you still have anything to do with Nesika?
Which action - single shot and repeater - is 1st in your book? Shouldered or barrel nut set up?
I've run both and I'd run either of them again with no hesitation. Both current rifles are running Bartlein
Well, I have a Muller Works barrel and after a thousand rounds of .243 it's still shooting amazing. The barrel has been an amazing experience, a great barrel has no substitute. The chamber can be straight and the threads perfect but none of that will over come a tight spot or reverse taper in the barrel. Premium barrels actually save you money and blood pressure points.
I see more top PRS shooting Bartlein, I hardly ever see anyone shooting Lilja.
I see more top PRS shooting Bartlein, I hardly ever see anyone shooting Lilja.
on my third bartlein all have been great .260 and 6.5x47
have had 2-3 kriegers all were great 260 and 6.5x47
had one rock creek .308 and it was absolutely perfect laser beam
had one shilen match (have another 6mm blank waiting) but that was another laser beam .260
had a hawk hill but didnt own it past 1300 rds but was good barrel, just chambered another hawk hill in 6.5cm
had one broughton 300 wm that was amazing barrel sold around 900 rds i think
also have one bergara in 6cm that has been very good but only at 500 rds on it.
Is lilja better than bartlein? there is a reason more competitors use bartlein and lilja is not on the list
precisionrifleblog.com
have had 2-3 kriegers all were great 260 and 6.5x47
had one rock creek .308 and it was absolutely perfect laser beam
had one shilen match (have another 6mm blank waiting) but that was another laser beam .260
had a hawk hill but didnt own it past 1300 rds but was good barrel, just chambered another hawk hill in 6.5cm
had one broughton 300 wm that was amazing barrel sold around 900 rds i think
also have one bergara in 6cm that has been very good but only at 500 rds on it.
Is lilja better than bartlein? there is a reason more competitors use bartlein and lilja is not on the list
Best Rifle Barrel – What The Pros Use
Barrels are deceptively simple, yet crucial to the precision required for long-range shooting. I onc...
precisionrifleblog.com
I don't have near the experience as some of these folks because I'm not a Smith, but, anecdotally I can say:
My cut rifles barrels have all been hammers. I've had a button rifle or two that hammered, I've also had a few that didn't.
We're all trying to pinch pennies and be frugal where we can.
Personally, at this point I only use cut rifled barrels, last two have been Bartliens, for my match gun.
I'm not shitting on button barrels, I've been using those as practice tubes because they're about half the price, see higher round counts and longer strings of fire, and are easily replaced.
What I can say is if I'm driving 4-8hrs, or flying further, staying at a hotel, paying match fees, possibly renting a car... all to shoot a match, I'm not chancing the performance of the barrel.
These days, Bartlein all the way. Having said that if I saw an awesome price on a K&P, Krieger, Hawk Hill, etc. that's easy money savings and I wouldn't hesitate.
My cut rifles barrels have all been hammers. I've had a button rifle or two that hammered, I've also had a few that didn't.
We're all trying to pinch pennies and be frugal where we can.
Personally, at this point I only use cut rifled barrels, last two have been Bartliens, for my match gun.
I'm not shitting on button barrels, I've been using those as practice tubes because they're about half the price, see higher round counts and longer strings of fire, and are easily replaced.
What I can say is if I'm driving 4-8hrs, or flying further, staying at a hotel, paying match fees, possibly renting a car... all to shoot a match, I'm not chancing the performance of the barrel.
These days, Bartlein all the way. Having said that if I saw an awesome price on a K&P, Krieger, Hawk Hill, etc. that's easy money savings and I wouldn't hesitate.
It's the same gun with a different barrel, bolt head, and magazine for each purpose.
6x47L 1:7.5tw for matches, currently a Bartlein, and I have a 1:7tw Criterion in 223 for practice because 223 can be loaded on a progressive and sees upwards of 5k rounds of barrel life.
Match barrel currently has 1400+ on it and still hammering, I'm going to add a hundred rounds per local match, give or take, till it dies, I'm shooting for 2k+ and I believe it's a fully attainable goal with a cut barrel that isn't being pushed to the redline it's whole life.
Bighorn TL3 action for the win. Everything between practice and match is the same except caliber.
Going to try a stainless Proof barrel for my next practice tube.
Nice. 6.5x47/6x47 Lapua is a amazing round. That brass can take serious punishment. What stock/chassis and scope?
