LMT .308 MWS

#2,002
problemchild said:
I think its heavier then that. My gun with glass and bipod is pushing 17.
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Meant just the gun itself. Thats according to LMT's website. Mine on the bathroom scale is right on the 9. I took the sights off and swapped to the CTR instead of the sopmod. Also thats for a 16in. I don't think mine would hit 17 unless I threw on NV and a full mag
 
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#2,003
A new addition for my MWS.
 

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#2,004
I put on an 18" SS barrel and switched out the glass temporarily from my bolt gun to try a bit more than 10x. After trying several shooting styles and holds I believe I have identified what this rifle likes and does not. Generally speaking, the rifle needs to be held very firmly into the pocket of the shoulder with the cheek "planted" on the stock . When shooting the rifle in a semi "free recoil" loose grip style I consistently throw the rounds out to 1~2 O'clock as can be seen in the groups below. When holding the rifle nice and tight I still have vertical stringing but the shots tighten up. I believe this is my eye wandering onto the target and not concentrating on the reticle. I switched out the SOPMOD for an A2 and am waiting on one of Slash's heavy buffer/spring combos. I have many years behind the A2 stock and I am hoping that I'll be able to drive the weapon better and use the rear sling swivel/rear bag to hold the weapon tight while allowing the firing hand to focus on trigger control. With the SOPMOD I collapsed the stock under recoil once or twice when I inadvertently clipped the lever with the rear bag. (all groups shot from prone with RedTac rear bag)

Constructive criticism is always welcome.

Anyway, here are the photos. I shot FGMM 168's and handloads, both grouped the same (1x fired FGMM brass, F210M, 43.0 Varget, SMK175's).










 
#2,005
is that a 9-13 bipod? if so, and if you have one, try a 6-9" bipod... it made a HUGE difference for me. Try 2 total 5shot groups with bipod loaded, and the same non-loaded. You will notice the point of impact change between the two big time.

no doubt about it.... LMT's are picky S.O.B's to get them to shoot nice. 168grn AMAX, or 168 BTHP bullets with varget loads from 41 to 43.4grns. It really is all about load development with these .308 rifles.


George Mac said:
I put on an 18" SS barrel and switched out the glass temporarily from my bolt gun to try a bit more than 10x. After trying several shooting styles and holds I believe I have identified what this rifle likes and does not. Generally speaking, the rifle needs to be held very firmly into the pocket of the shoulder with the cheek "planted" on the stock . When shooting the rifle in a semi "free recoil" loose grip style I consistently throw the rounds out to 1~2 O'clock as can be seen in the groups below. When holding the rifle nice and tight I still have vertical stringing but the shots tighten up. I believe this is my eye wandering onto the target and not concentrating on the reticle. I switched out the SOPMOD for an A2 and am waiting on one of Slash's heavy buffer/spring combos. I have many years behind the A2 stock and I am hoping that I'll be able to drive the weapon better and use the rear sling swivel/rear bag to hold the weapon tight while allowing the firing hand to focus on trigger control. With the SOPMOD I collapsed the stock under recoil once or twice when I inadvertently clipped the lever with the rear bag. (all groups shot from prone with RedTac rear bag)

Constructive criticism is always welcome.

Anyway, here are the photos. I shot FGMM 168's and handloads, both grouped the same (1x fired FGMM brass, F210M, 43.0 Varget, SMK175's).










Click to expand...
 
#2,007
As with any semi-auto AR, it really is about being consistent with everything you do. Even if you're doing it wrong, at least be consistent with what you do as you fix your bad shooting skills & improve. Shooting a semi-auto AR will pronounce anything you do wrong in comparison to a bolt action. As for me when taking my group shots, it really is all about not moving your cheek weld / scope view AT ALL during your shots.. If you move the smallest bit or take your head off your stock during your group shots = 100% point of impact will move when you resume. Some like to pull the trigger back, hold, and reset the trigger.... Me personally, I do not do this. I've tried both and re-setting the trigger just doesn't work for me. Doesn't hurt to try it both ways. I'll also play around with my side focus a little bit. Just because the side focus says 100 for 100yard shooting, doesn't mean you should use it. I'll bob my head back / forth / up / down until I see my reticle not move on my bullseye while I adjust my side focus & then screw around with the eye zoom after that & then double check the side focus to make sure parallax is tip top... Some of my AR's like the bipod somewhat loaded like my RRA EOP, while my LMT & RRA ATH & DPMS 3G1 & RRA ELITE OP2 likes no loading what so ever. The more level the rifle is while sitting in the rear sand bag the better & to keep an eye on bipod jump. Maybe even try a group or two with a sandbag sock infront & behind your bipod legs. If you were to watch me nestle into my LMT just before I take my shots you would think a robot was shooting the rifle. I meticulously place the butt of the rifle into my shoulder the same way every time, and cheek weld the same way every time. Scope shadow is your friend. Once the glass is 100% clear = cheek weld is locked into place & then I take my group shots... I personally like to use 1" circles @ 100yards & 3.5" circles @ 300yards with my 16x scope. Circles don't give a shit if your target is level or not. Once my crosshairs cut the circle into perfect 1/4 pcs of pie I take my shots with controlled breathing. For me, I let my bipod & sandbag do all of the work in order to eliminate heartbeat & breathing which makes a big difference at 300yards & 600yards for me personally, BUT everyone is different. This might also sounds crazy, but I actually run my owl ear rear sandbag with the ears going front to back rather than left to right with NON-A2 type stocks (canvas type bag is needed for this and hard leather is too stiff for elevation control with NON-A2 stocks like a sopmod).... As for my RRA EOP with a A2 stock, then I reverse my owl ear direction to left / right as the A2 buttstock works great for this situation. Controlling the rifle elevation by squeezing the owl ear rear bag with my left hand, while obviously pulling the trigger with my right hand. All of my AR's are different in how I shoot them. Each one is just a little bit different & is more picky than my girlfriend.

Load development is just as important as everything I've stated above. Prime example with my new RRA ATH and how much load development & using the correct ammo for the twist of the barrel plays a HUGE roll in getting ultra tight groups. If you're not reloading, then you really can't expect much in my opinion. Bullet GRN weight for barrel twist rate & amount of powder dropped for the bullet used PLAYS A HUGE PART for getting stupid groups. Adequate powder drop development for the bullet used in what rifle's barrel twist rate & barrel harmonics can take weeks to develop. The above picture is my go to load 60grn VMAX bullets with my new rock river ATH. The below picture is with my new rock river ATH with spray and pray 55grn FMJ fodder. Big time difference between the two pictures all based upon the ammo used & the same amount of effort was given on my part @ 100yards. Getting crappy group results can be as simple as switching ammo to not setting up your side focus correctly & is 3x more pronounced with a semi-auto in comparison to a bolt action.
IMG_7216_zps8bc507d2.jpg


IMG_7426_zpsf367f031.jpg




George Mac said:
It is the 6-9". Any comments as to what shooting position/grip/technique worked well for you?
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#2,008
I agree with elfster I have had my gen 1 lmt 308 for 3 years. Right before a competition i dry fire for at least 30 minutes a day. I have noticed when I do this my results are better at the competitions. I have shot 178 hornady super performance with good results out of a 16 308 barrel. Yes I saw the disclaimer but never had a problem. Best results for me have been firm shouldering with handhold then very light grip finger on the tigger. Squeeze and results have been good. I think the lmt's tigger is a part of the source of why it can be so frustrating seems like the dwell time causes me to pull a shot here and there mostly because the isn't constantly 5 pounds everytime. I would it breaks between 4.5 and 5.5 Also I try to not clean until my accuracy degrades which I really haven't seen though 400 rounds or so of mixed ammo. I also remind myself the gun isn't a precision gun but fills more of hard hitting DMR role which I believe how the British deploy the firearm. The upgrades i am trying next is a different tigger not sure if single or double stage and a better bipod. I currently running a 6-9 Harris I wanna try a atlas seen if it improves my results. I have seen fgmm 168 and 175 run well out if a friends lmt 308 gun so if I can ever get a hold of a box ill try that as well. Main thing i like it really eats just about any ammo and I don't have the dual exactors.
 
#2,012
Did you all ever find what the Brits looked at during their testing phases that led up to them choosing the LMTMWS? I'm wanting to get an AR10 and would like to know before I do. I love the Knights ECC but can't afford it.
 
#2,016
A couple things to add to otherwise great info by Elfster/Roady/George and the rest of the thread.

1. The weight of a typical 7.62 BCG is significant, therefore a longer amount of time a gas-operated weapon moves during the process of recoil (3 impulses), which means more room for error in followthrough.
2. I found that Magpul's STR stock makes it much easier to shoot when using rear bag.
 
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#2,020
I made my purchase with Omega. Pretty much wiped my savings out. :( You only live once though. I called directly and they have several in stock. Got it for $2500. I went with the MWS because I don't know anything about the other. Thanks to Trident1982 for the article. It helped to make my decision, brother.
 
#2,022
holy shit! if you got a slick for $2500, then you got an AMAZING deal! keep us updated once the glass is on with pics please!

Patriot1776 said:
I made my purchase with Omega. Pretty much wiped my savings out. :( You only live once though. I called directly and they have several in stock. Got it for $2500. I went with the MWS because I don't know anything about the other. Thanks to Trident1982 for the article. It helped to make my decision, brother.
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#2,029
elfster1234 said:
that's still an amazing deal for today's standards and is the very same price I paid for mine a little over 1year ago! nice work!
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Thanks. I'll post pics up when I get some glass on it. May have to wait awhile to save up but I'm thinking an ELCAN or Leupold 1-6. Do all have any thought on optics? Thanks by the way for the friend request. I look forward to reading all of the info that you all can provide.
 
#2,030
Personally, 3-15 is perfect for this rifle...... Imo, anything less than 2.5-10 for an LMT would be a crying shame, but it really all depends on your intended purpose really. If punching holes in paper or slappin steel up to 800yards, then i would get a 3-15 or something around there.


Patriot1776 said:
Thanks. I'll post pics up when I get some glass on it. May have to wait awhile to save up but I'm thinking an ELCAN or Leupold 1-6. Do all have any thought on optics? Thanks by the way for the friend request. I look forward to reading all of the info that you all can provide.
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#2,031
Patriot I would buy your optics to Tailor to the task you want the rifle to accomplish. 6x in my opinion your gonna struggle past 700 yards. However both of those optics are faster up close and through the immediate ranges out to 700. I have a Leupold 2.5-8 mark4 and in starts to struggle with accuracy at 600 yards mostly because of the absence of a parallex adjustment. I ended up having to buy a Premeir light tactical 3-15 to get the most out of the rifle. So my advice buy optics based on what you wanna do with it simple as that.
 
#2,036
I've shot my 16" MWS with my TBAC 30-P1 attached. I was surprised at the loss of accusracy and the amount of blow-back that I caught in the face. In addition, the brass went from ejecting at the 4o'clock to landing at 2o'clock. I don't plan on shooting it suppressed any more.

Edited to add: this is my only attempt to shoot a gas gun suppressed. I'm assuming the load (43gr varget and 168SMK) may just have been too hot for suppressed.
 
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#2,038
god, I would sooooooo hate to have his job!!! just imagine being forced to continuously fire an LMT all day long and waste loads of ammo! how does he even get through the day.....

QUOTE=AvsFan;2674765]Check this out...the can get's a little warm:cool:
[video=youtube;OlYwhb1-F_g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlYwhb1-F_g[/video][/QUOTE]
 
#2,042
I think I would rather have a DI gas gun rather than a piston operated rifle, but then again I'm going to be biased owning a LMT! LOL!.... From the research I've done they tend to be on the "more accurate" side, but I could totally be wrong and that's all I can say being that I've never owned & shot one before.... Would be a good question to ask killshot with his POF's... He would be the go to person with any questions regarding piston driven systems. You should kick him a PM.

Eric B. said:
Gents,

Have any of you LMT .308 owners ever given any thought to owning a REPR? I see it as the same quality as the LMT .308 but with the (IMHO) advantage of being piston operated.
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#2,043
I have a REPR as well as a 14.5 inch 308 MWS upper and complete
LM8MWS with 16 inch SS barrel. REPR is made well and pretty
accurate but rarely leaves the safe. One of the LMT's is with me
every time I shoot.
 
#2,045
Last week I changed to an 18"SS barrel, A2 stock, and Slash's heavy buffer/spring combo. Now the rifle is very smooth and shooting sub MOA more consistently.
The SOPMOD stock is challenging when trying to use the LMT in a precision role. Changing to the A2 allowed me to identify shooter fatigue and lack of concentration on the reticle more easily while keeping the rifle much more secure in the shoulder with the non-firing hand.
 
#2,047
Compared to the nasty flyers I was getting before the groups have tightened up considerably. I'm hovering right around 1 MOA but I'm able to call my errors now that I'm using the A2. I fired the first three groups focusing on the points of the diamond. I then shot the 5 group target from left to right. On the last three groups I tried the thumb on the right side of the weapon with a slightly looser grip. You can see how they started to open up more in those last three groups. I've got a long learning curve with this rifle but I feel that I'm making progress.

Please ask On-Target to make a Mac version. :)





 
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#2,050
I run my MWS suppressed all the time now. I have the AAC 762 SDN6. Being a southpaw the pressure doesn't bother me what so ever. I shoot about 80 to 100 rounds each time I shoot and the poi is very reliable with the can on or off. I'm getting a buffer and spring combo from heavybuffers.com. The recoil impulse is sharper and faster with the can. So I can't wait to try it out with the new set up. Also I recommend using Frog Lube. Cleaning the rifle is so easy and fast. Only thing that takes time to clean is the muzzle break since I have to use a pick to clean it. Looks like paint thinner soak will happen next weekend for the break.
 
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