Load and barrel lifecycle planning

[opherman47]

I have two hunting rifles with carbon fiber barrels 6.5 cm and .300wm . Plenty of experience in the infantry shooting all kinds of rifles but first time owning my own.

There's so much good information on reloading I feel capable to take on that journey, many thanks to the forum for all the links and direct advice found here. (I'm trying to decide if I want to go down the rabbit hole and spend 6,000 bucks on reloading gear or just stay with factory, still gathering research)

I would like to know about how you guys think about ammo and barrel life cycle.

If the 300 win mag barrel is only good for about a thousand rounds. I've used 15% of my barrel life just load development and barrel break in at 150 rounds (is this correct?)

If I have a really good load at that point should I just go ahead and make 800 rounds? (Does this matter if it's PRS versus hunting)

Or do you do initial load development and when possibly throat erosion or groups start to open up or something do you do another load development at that point? So perhaps it's do new load development every 200 rounds? .

I don't know how to think about that as our military rifles would just get re-barreled when we would send them off to the armor and we didn't have to really worry about it.

Some people talk about the importance of fire forming brass, etc All this reduces barrel life significantly even for a hunting rifle..

Do you do load development and just seldom use your hunting rifles? And then for practice perhaps having a practice rifle in same caliber but with a cheaper steel barrel?

I was thinking of getting the MPA BMR as a solid practice platform and just saving the carbon barrel lighter weight hunting rifles just for hunting.

I'm used to being able to go out to the range and shoot hundreds to thousands upon thousands of rounds in a session. So now that I'm pay to play I want to be smart about how I go about managing barrel life and replacement and stuff like that.

Thank you in advance for all the wonderful advice I'm sure I'm about to receive.

I'm really interested to learn about how you guys think about all these things. After all marksmanship and making windcalls are disposable skills that need to be maintained. I would think I would shoot at least a few hundred rounds a month at a minimum to maintain current.

 

[MarshallDodge]

If you enjoy shooting like I do, burning out barrels is just another expense like putting new tires on the car, barrels are replaceable.

That said, I shoot a lot of 223 and it has helped me with learning the atmospheric conditions. I save the bigger guns for longer distances or when shooting a match.

 

[opherman47]

If you enjoy shooting like I do, burning out barrels is just another expense like putting new tires on the car, barrels are replaceable.

That said, I shoot a lot of 223 and it has helped me with learning the atmospheric conditions. I save the bigger guns for longer distances or when shooting

I totally agree burning out barrels is the norm,. What do you think about loading your own and how often do you need to develop new loads as your barrel ages?

 

[MarshallDodge]

I load 99% of what I shoot but I don't spend a lot of time on load development. Researching before you start will shorten up your development time and ammo. With experience you can typically tell if a bullet is going to shoot or not within 10 or 15 shots, and knowing what powders work best in that cartridge will help.

Sometimes you may need to tweak a load as the barrel wears but not always.

 

[opherman47]

I load 99% of what I shoot but I don't spend a lot of time on load development. Researching before you start will shorten up your development time and ammo. With experience you can typically tell if a bullet is going to shoot or not within 10 or 15 shots, and knowing what powders work best in that cartridge will help.

Sometimes you may need to tweak a load as the barrel wears but not always.

So if I'm going to load like a few hundred rounds should I just keep it under 300 rounds at a time?

 

[CoryT]

Barrel life depends on the load and how you shoot. In a .300 MW max loads shot at a high rate can burn out a barrel in 75 rounds. A reasonable load shot at a rate that does not overheat the barrel can last 2500-3000 rounds.

Barrel break in is just a way to sell more barrels, ignore it. If you select a bullet that will work with your twist rate, it should take no more than 15 rounds to find a powder charge, and another 15-20 to tune seating depth.
OCW Reloading

Load only the number of rounds you can expect to fire over a couple shooting sessions. It may be required to seat further out as the throat wears, depending on how jump tolerant your selected bullet is and how concentric your loads are.

Note that barrels can often be set back 1.5-2 inches and get another 2K plus rounds, as the throat is what wears, not the middle of the tube.

 

[nn8734]

So if I'm going to load like a few hundred rounds should I just keep it under 300 rounds at a time?

Throat wear depends somewhat on firing schedule and bullet selection. Heavier firing schedules with longer, heavier bullets will wear the throat faster than lighter, shorter bullets in a rifle that isnt fired much.

For magnums I consider a batch of 200 one prod lot when running 190-220g class bullets and will load that many, shoot then take more MV data once I start on the new lot

For .473 bolt face cartridges ill load 400 rounds at a time. That’s based on a moderate firing schedule using moderately heavy bullets.

ETA: I always put either a few boxes of factory ammo (preferably stuff that uses the same bullet i plan on using in my reloads) through the rifle before beginning load development. If factory ammo isnt available, load up a nominal charge just to get rounds down the barrel to settle it in (good barrels will speed up after 50-100 rounds or so)

 

[opherman47]

@CoryT and @nn8734 ok so with my carbon fiber barrels that are used only for hunting, should i develop my own loads or just go with hornady eldx/premium factory load type, or do you think its worth going full hog and doing load development etc? these rifles will not be used for high rates of fire. just zero and hunting. (its possible to set back a carbon fiber barrel but I'm not sure many gunsmiths would want to bite off on that)

so based on what you are saying though, if i want to train and shoot through 2 to 3 barrels a year, i should get something like a MPA with a steel barrel, and work on my wind calls and other long range skills, shooting through cheaper steel barrels and leaving the life and possible load development on the carbon fiber barrels for just hunting???

 

[nn8734]

@CoryT and @nn8734 ok so with my carbon fiber barrels that are used only for hunting, should i develop my own loads or just go with hornady eldx/premium factory load type, or do you think its worth going full hog and doing load development etc? these rifles will not be used for high rates of fire. just zero and hunting. (its possible to set back a carbon fiber barrel but I'm not sure many gunsmiths would want to bite off on that)

so based on what you are saying though, if i want to train and shoot through 2 to 3 barrels a year, i should get something like a MPA with a steel barrel, and work on my wind calls and other long range skills, shooting through cheaper steel barrels and leaving the life and possible load development on the carbon fiber barrels for just hunting???

All the above is entirely up to you. I reload because I want to control production, manage supply chain risk and make ammo that performs better than the factory stuff at lower cost.

I agree with keeping your carbon fiber bbls for hunting and SS for target work but that’s also your call.

 

[CoryT]

If you are hunting, factory ammo will be more than adequate in the accuracy department. If you re shooting matches where accuracy matters that much, you probably don't want a real lightweight rifle anyway, so a plain steel barrel would be the norm.

 

[opherman47]

If you are hunting, factory ammo will be more than adequate in the accuracy department. If you re shooting matches where accuracy matters that much, you probably don't want a real lightweight rifle anyway, so a plain steel barrel would be the norm.

Okay great so you only recommend getting into reloading if you want to do precision rifle competitions or something of the sort?

 

[nn8734]

Okay great so you only recommend getting into reloading if you want to do precision rifle competitions or something of the sort?

I would get into reloading regardless of the application. If you were only hunting i could understand relying soley on factory ammo but if 95% of your shooting is going to be target and/or comps I don’t see why not just reloading for everything.

You do have to account for start up costs and negotiing the learning curve but it would be worth it in the long run for the reasons i gave in my initial reply above.

 

[CoryT]

Or if the volume of ammo justifies the equipment. That's something that many people fail to account for in the cost/benefit analysis. To make good ammo, you are going to spend the equivalent of several cases of factory ammo on equipment. In reality, you are probably not 'saving' all that much money, unless it's a large volume. What you can do is tune a load to a rifle and get exactly what you want, where you may not be able to get factory ammo. Take .375 CT. While you can buy factory ammo, it's never really going to be what you want nor will it be as accurate as what you could load yourself. I load all my .375, .338, .260 and .300 BO. I rarely load any .308, just subsonics.

 

[opherman47]

I would get into reloading regardless of the application. If you were only hunting i could understand relying soley on factory ammo but if 95% of your shooting is going to be target and/or comps I don’t see why not just reloading for everything.

You do have to account for start up costs and negotiing the learning curve but it would be worth it in the long run for the reasons i gave in my initial reply above.

Well I think I'll have to figure that out... I definitely want to add long range marksmanship to my tool set as someone that was in the infantry for quite some time we just shot m4 and machine guns all the time... I plan on taking some private instruction so I can get that dialed and learn how to use this kestrel and all that kind of stuff. I would want to validate my training in some PRS comps. But I don't think I'll be doing PRS comps for forever but who knows I may love them. I more want to pick up the skill set. I've also never hunted. The field craft and going deep into the boonies in Alaska and those kind of things really appeals to me. Now that I'm on my final 5 years in the national Guard I'm doing a desk job and I really miss field time. Long range marksmanship, being out in the field, and meat seem like a power trio to me. So that's where I'm at in regards to my journey. But perhaps I should spend the 3 to 6K to do reloading so I understand that aspect of the craft as well.

 

[acudaowner]

I was told around 3.7k for the creedmoor actually got 7,250 on my first barrel shot almost exclusively factory ammo with speeds around 2640 ish to 2747 the last 250 were a hard to miss sigh it was time to replace it .
not sure my second barrel with the creedmoor is going to get that many rounds out of it . as I have messed up on my count with out black boxes of 200 to count up . no idea about the 300 win mag .

 

[nn8734]

Well I think I'll have to figure that out... I definitely want to add long range marksmanship to my tool set as someone that was in the infantry for quite some time we just shot m4 and machine guns all the time... I plan on taking some private instruction so I can get that dialed and learn how to use this kestrel and all that kind of stuff. I would want to validate my training in some PRS comps. But I don't think I'll be doing PRS comps for forever but who knows I may love them. I more want to pick up the skill set. I've also never hunted. The field craft and going deep into the boonies in Alaska and those kind of things really appeals to me. Now that I'm on my final 5 years in the national Guard I'm doing a desk job and I really miss field time. Long range marksmanship, being out in the field, and meat seem like a power trio to me. So that's where I'm at in regards to my journey. But perhaps I should spend the 3 to 6K to do reloading so I understand that aspect of the craft as well.

What i might suggest is grabbing a used reloading manual for cheap and read the first portion of that manual, which covers all aspects of reloading. Will give you a good idea of the process, equipment, practices and procedures to familiarize yourself and help set expectations. That and (if you haven’t already) browse through some of the stickied threads in this sub-forum.

The capital expense for basic equipment/tooling, etc to get started isn’t as much as you might think however you can find yourself splurging $$$ on fancier, more expensive shit as you get deeper into it.. no different than rifles, scopes and anything else to do with this discipline (not to mention night vision shit, lol).

 

[opherman47]

What i might suggest is grabbing a used reloading manual for cheap and read the first portion of that manual, which covers all aspects of reloading. Will give you a good idea of the process, equipment, practices and procedures to familiarize yourself and help set expectations. That and (if you haven’t already) browse through some of the stickied threads in this sub-forum.

The capital expense for basic equipment/tooling, etc to get started isn’t as much as you might think however you can find yourself splurging $$$ on fancier, more expensive shit as you get deeper into it.. no different than rifles, scopes and anything else to do with this discipline (not to mention night vision shit, lol).

Yeah I've pretty much mapped out what I want to get. I definitely want to get the amp annealer, a charge master, Henderson case trimmer and some of the nicer stuff, It doesn't seem worth it to start off with less,. Everything else is just process discipline, mad props to the people that mowed the lawn before me because at this point I feel like you can start at a pretty high level of execution.

One of the things that's a challenge is a lot of people say they shoot a lot (but at least the guys around here maybe shoot 50 rounds a month) but it's hard for me to imagine dragging stuff out to the range and not shooting 200 to 500+ rounds... So if I'm going to spend the time to get Stone Cold on long-range marksmanship... I think I need something like the MPA BMR rifle or similar to use as a trainer that can go through two to three barrels a year, and the ability to load a lot. If I have the loading equipment I can make Good quality hunting rounds and I may never in my lifetime shoot out the barrels in those nicer hunting rifles that I have. (Which are the Christiansen arms mprs.. which get a lot of hate I know here but for the weight and the chassis and the price even if I have to re-barrel them and christensen arms hoses me.. I still like the design better than anything on the market for lightweight chassis.)

 

[Modoc]

You are at a similar point to me. Factory hunting loads were grouping about an inch at 100 yards, my hand loads sucked it down to about 1/2 inch. 2-3k rounds to burn out a barrel? My hunting rifles should out last my life.

I do want to build a trainer in 223/5.56 for getting better at long range shooting. As for the reloading set up, don’t be afraid of used presses and equipment. I have gotten come smoking deals from pawn shops and estate sales. Granted, I have been cranking out 10k+ of pistol rounds a year for quite a while. No where near that amount for precision rifle, more like a couple hundred there.

 

[CoryT]

Yeah I've pretty much mapped out what I want to get. I definitely want to get the amp annealer, a charge master, Henderson case trimmer and some of the nicer stuff, It doesn't seem worth it to start off with less,. Everything else is just process discipline, mad props to the people that mowed the lawn before me because at this point I feel like you can start at a pretty high level of execution.

One of the things that's a challenge is a lot of people say they shoot a lot (but at least the guys around here maybe shoot 50 rounds a month) but it's hard for me to imagine dragging stuff out to the range and not shooting 200 to 500+ rounds... So if I'm going to spend the time to get Stone Cold on long-range marksmanship... I think I need something like the MPA BMR rifle or similar to use as a trainer that can go through two to three barrels a year, and the ability to load a lot. If I have the loading equipment I can make Good quality hunting rounds and I may never in my lifetime shoot out the barrels in those nicer hunting rifles that I have. (Which are the Christiansen arms mprs.. which get a lot of hate I know here but for the weight and the chassis and the price even if I have to re-barrel them and christensen arms hoses me.. I still like the design better than anything on the market for lightweight chassis.)

If you want a trainer, it's hard to go wrong with .308. Barrel life is on the order of 8-10K rounds, and it will make you a better shot by forcing you to read wind and range better than something like 6Creed, which lets you make pretty bad calls and still get there.