loading bipod, is it old school and obsolete?

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rockwind1

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#1
had an instructor tell me today that loading the bipod while prone of course was old school thinking and that if I didn't load it with exactly the same force each time accuracy would suffer. i never really thought of it like that. said to just not load it.

what do most top shooters on here do?

thanks, always looking to improve, not afraid of change. i've always loaded my atlas bipod a little bit.
 
#2
Bullshit. Methinks said instructor just may not know the difference between loading the bipod and jamming your fat ass into the gun. Or maybe he understands that a bunch of newbies (assumption) won’t get the nuance of loading the bipod and takes the easy way out.

Explain to me what his preferred method was that took out the variability. I’m interested. Just leaving the butt of the rifle loose in the pocket? How loose is loose? How is that more consistent than muscle memory and being part of the shooting system?

Asking for a friend.
 
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#3
lash said:
Bullshit. Methinks said instructor just may not know the difference between loading the bipod and jamming your fat ass into the gun. Or maybe he understands that a bunch of newbies (assumption) won’t get the nuance of loading the bipod and takes the easy way out.

Explain to me what his preferred method was that took out the variability. I’m interested. Just leaving the butt of the rifle loose in the pocket? How loose is loose? How is that more consistent than muscle memory and being part of the shooting system?

Asking for a friend.
Click to expand...

i believe he didn't put any load on the bipod at all, supposedly taking away the variable "loading" pressure which according to him, is impossible to make exactly the same every time. i mean, i load the bipod "a little bit" but i never thought i had to be within a certain parameter of force each time. i like to think i am a good shot, but i know at a prs match i would defintely be in the bottom .

but thanks for your thoughts, i was kind thinking the same thing but then again, i like to keep an open mind.
 
#4
lash said:
Bullshit. Methinks said instructor just may not know the difference between loading the bipod and jamming your fat ass into the gun. Or maybe he understands that a bunch of newbies (assumption) won’t get the nuance of loading the bipod and takes the easy way out.

Explain to me what his preferred method was that took out the variability. I’m interested. Just leaving the butt of the rifle loose in the pocket? How loose is loose? How is that more consistent than muscle memory and being part of the shooting system?

Asking for a friend.
Click to expand...
by the way, just so i know, what is the difference between load ing and jamming my fat ass? i want to know in case i am jamming and don't know it
 
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#5
I mean I’m just spit balling here as I load the bipod still, but IF recoil management is in check, is it possible that no load could have a level of more consistency?

I just don’t see that though with any field worthy rifle especially in the magnums as it relates to recoil management. I feel that is a greater variable to control than the amount of pressure loaded on the bipod.
 
#8
100% dependent on how much recoil you are dealing with. You can get away with a lot shooting a 6mm with a Hellfire.

Once you think you are schooled on good recoil management grab a minimum of a 300 mag with no brake and get back in your desk. I always crack up when guys post up their “recoil management” videos on IG and they are shooting a 6mm with a brake.
 
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#13
JB.IC said:
I have a question: do you load a bipod with sled feet?
Click to expand...

Not really... but even there, there are nuances of how much shoulder contact you use, how much muscle tension in the shoulder (or not). And what works for an 18 lb .308 running 200s @ 2650 may be subtly different than what one might use for an ELR gun in a heavier caliber, even with the same bipod.
 
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#14
milanuk said:
Not really... but even there, there are nuances of how much shoulder contact you use, how much muscle tension in the shoulder (or not). And what works for an 18 lb .308 running 200s @ 2650 may be subtly different than what one might use for an ELR gun in a heavier caliber, even with the same bipod.
Click to expand...

Yes. I stopped loading bipods on my PRS rifles and 375ELR rifle. Can’t load my PRS rifle on a flimsy barricade, tank trap, cattle gate, plastic barrel that isn’t weighted down, and so on. Can’t load my sled feet on my elr rifle.

Nuances aside because that isn’t what this thread is about, do what works for you. If you load the bipod consistently then do so. If not then who cares. Get behind your equipment and practice different techniques and PROVE to yourself what works and what doesn’t work for YOU.

If you use a Charlie TARAC mounted to your fore end tube and you load the fuck out of your bipod, fingers crossed it doesn’t move your TARAC in relation to where it was calibrated. ;)
 
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#15
JB.IC said:
Get behind your equipment and practice different techniques and PROVE to yourself what works and what doesn’t work for YOU.
Click to expand...

Be sure to test it under different (ground) conditions as well.

Speaking from experience on the FTR side of things... seen a lot of folks 'discover' the 'one true way' of doing things... only to trip and fall on their face when they finally got off their front porch and went out into the wider world and shot matches at other locations that had different surface conditions - think grass berm vs. concrete pad, or gravel covered berm vs. sand. The gun recoils slightly differently on each medium, and one setup or another might not work as well as you think it should.
 
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#16
Lawless said:
Loading is a bit of a misnomer.

Just take out any slack.
Click to expand...
This.
Anybody here that is talking about loading the fuck out of your bipod doesn’t get what loading a bipod means. See my first post.

Also, per the OP, this subject was specific to prone shooting; not bench, not barricades, not odd positions.
 
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#18
Easy to test.

1. Zero rifle your normal way. Do not make any adjustments once zeroed
2. Check POI shift with loading/not loading your bipod, bench and prone
3. Check POI shift with zero force on your rifle. No cheek, no shoulder, etc. just put it on bags, aim, and pull the trigger.

My guess is it will be reasonably easy to see your impact shifts. Food for thought if you ever notice impact shifts when shooting from barricades or other unsupported positions.
 
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#19
You aren’t trying to “bend the bipods” on a shitty shot out belt-fed during a tombstone qual, so no need to ass up into it. Get in a good position and take the slack out of the bipod by maneuvering your body (not your shoulder). That’s it.

You can take the slack out with minimal force and don’t need stuff like “bipod loops” on shooting mats, ledges on benches, or the new recoil-reducing bipod.
 
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#20
M8541Reaper said:
You aren’t trying to “bend the bipods” on a shitty shot out belt-fed during a tombstone qual, so no need to ass up into it. Get in a good position and take the slack out of the bipod by maneuvering your body (not your shoulder). That’s it.

You can take the slack out with minimal force and don’t need stuff like “bipod loops” on shooting mats, ledges on benches, or the new recoil-reducing bipod.
Click to expand...

Exactly this ^^

I'm getting close to releasing my third recoil video - man, people are demanding after the first two :) Anyway, loading the bipod is part of this third and final one.

Key points:

- Loading takes the slack out so you have consistent pressure, which translates to more consistent shooting.
- Without loading, depending on the play in your bipod, you could be shooting off a support with different positions shot-to-shot. This will have an effect on recoil, which will have an effect on precision.
- I use an Atlas, which has very limited play. I simply shift my body weight forward by pushing my toes slightly, and this is enough to take the limited play out. If only the Atlas had detents on the legs that were a little closer together...
 
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#21
.......ask him how he knows he does everything else the same every time. With his philosophy we should just stop shooting altogether as we can never do everything the same every time.

Also, if you’re just taking the slack out and nothing more, with a quality bipod, it’s pretty repeatable. It’s not like it’s going to vary a ton from day to day how much slack is needed to take out.
 
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#22
Dthomas3523 said:
.......ask him how he knows he does everything else the same every time. With his philosophy we should just stop shooting altogether as we can never do everything the same every time.

Also, if you’re just taking the slack out and nothing more, with a quality bipod, it’s pretty repeatable. It’s not like it’s going to vary a ton from day to day how much slack is needed to take out.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm
A load sensor and a few rubber bands and I’ll change the future of shooting with a bipod.

Maybe a recoil absorption device as well,,,,,hmmm,,,,,,gettin out the crayons
 
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#23
Precision Underground said:
100% dependent on how much recoil you are dealing with. You can get away with a lot shooting a 6mm with a Hellfire.

Once you think you are schooled on good recoil management grab a minimum of a 300 mag with no brake and get back in your desk. I always crack up when guys post up their “recoil management” videos on IG and they are shooting a 6mm with a brake.
Click to expand...
Like when I posted my 7mm RemMag recoil video with a carbon fiber stock and no brake LOL.

That'll lern someone how to manage that thing!
 
#24
M8541Reaper said:
You aren’t trying to “bend the bipods” on a shitty shot out belt-fed during a tombstone qual, so no need to ass up into it. Get in a good position and take the slack out of the bipod by maneuvering your body (not your shoulder). That’s it.

You can take the slack out with minimal force and don’t need stuff like “bipod loops” on shooting mats, ledges on benches, or the new recoil-reducing bipod.
Click to expand...
Tombstone qual sucks. Especially 249... the only qual I had to do a second time LOL
 
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#27
Shooter's preference. Every shooter doesn't do everything the same, nor should they. If you pay to go to a course, you are paying someone to show you what they have seen work. Just because it's taught at one class doesn't make it the end all. Take what you learn and apply it. If it doesn't work, go back to what you were doing or try something different.
 
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#30
if your bipod is wobbly, it makes sense to take the wobble out of it, and that is all, but jmo.
i never really understood jamming it against a ledge. i mean, i understand how that seems solid, but it seems to me (i could be wrong) that if the object you are pressing against is not exactly square to the target, you would have to actively push against the bipod steering you off target. maybe it is minor, but it is contrary to the idea that the rifle should be pointing at the target when you are relaxed.
 
#31
I agree with the points made above. Training needs to be tested and tried in practice. To me, I need to translate words into body action and follow thru. I found thru my personal testing, I take any slack out then stop pushing forward. Instead let gravity takeover and let my body relax to the ground. I found when I pushed hard into the bipod, I could put three shots into one hole and the other two would go crazy. When I learned to relax down after taking out the slack, fliers disappeared.
 
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#32
Hi,

And to further cloud the bipod universe...if traditional under the barrel bipods are "loaded" in order to bring consistency to the equation in regards to body position related to rifle position related to recoil momentum....what is the procedure for the over the barrel bipods :) :unsure: .....

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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#33
THEIS said:
Hi,

And to further cloud the bipod universe...if traditional under the barrel bipods are "loaded" in order to bring consistency to the equation in regards to body position related to rifle position related to recoil momentum....what is the procedure for the over the barrel bipods :) :unsure: .....

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...

128395AD-DFDB-4B13-9CBB-F07A4C11310D.gif

You pull back on them.
 
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#36
Steel head said:
Hmmmm
A load sensor and a few rubber bands and I’ll change the future of shooting with a bipod.

Maybe a recoil absorption device as well,,,,,hmmm,,,,,,gettin out the crayons
Click to expand...
thought about that a few times, just never did it.

one idea was to attach a sensor either analog or the new laser measuring ones...they are so cheap now and the sensor has the read out on it.

solid mount that to the rail and focus it toward the bipod leg.

or 2 for 2 legs and see if you are muscling the rifle left and right

check for deviation

in theory that would give you a measurement of force applied for consistency.
you can set a +/- range, min max etc. when im pushing "to hard" a led light comes one or if im not pushing hard enough.

original idea was to grab a torque wrench and stick that on to a rail, tac a shaft to bipod leg and see how much pressure i was pushing.

i though force registration would be easier to correlate between different positions and ground/bench materials.

but like most things i just ran out of time.
 
#37
DMP said:
I agree with the points made above. Training needs to be tested and tried in practice. To me, I need to translate words into body action and follow thru. I found thru my personal testing, I take any slack out then stop pushing forward. Instead let gravity takeover and let my body relax to the ground. I found when I pushed hard into the bipod, I could put three shots into one hole and the other two would go crazy. When I learned to relax down after taking out the slack, fliers disappeared.
Click to expand...

This is one of the key thing that a lot of people are mentioning here. Loading to the point of putting too much tension in your shoulder only makes it so you're reflecting more recoil force back into the rifle.
 
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#38
brianf said:
thought about that a few times, just never did it.

one idea was to attach a sensor either analog or the new laser measuring ones...they are so cheap now and the sensor has the read out on it.

solid mount that to the rail and focus it toward the bipod leg.

or 2 for 2 legs and see if you are muscling the rifle left and right

check for deviation

in theory that would give you a measurement of force applied for consistency.
you can set a +/- range, min max etc. when im pushing "to hard" a led light comes one or if im not pushing hard enough.

original idea was to grab a torque wrench and stick that on to a rail, tac a shaft to bipod leg and see how much pressure i was pushing.

i though force registration would be easier to correlate between different positions and ground/bench materials.

but like most things i just ran out of time.
Click to expand...

The thing to do would be to have a gauge at the shoulder... hmmm... recoil "pad" with a pressure gauge...
 
#39
recoil pad might work as well but not sure how it would do if you have thicker clothes on

would have to be a strain gauge between the pad and the stock to capture force, if its on the butt pad it might get screwy because of the soft base

same idea though, how much are we pushing and are we consistent
 
#40
I think the main problem is that the instructor made a blanket statement. You need good recoil management if you are shooting a rifle that recoils and the more it recoils the more it matters.

If you're shooting a 25lb, 6mmx47 that recoils less than a .22 then I have found loading the bi-pod doesn't effect the precision much at all (yet I still do it when shooting a prone stage).

On a .300WM or a .338LM, no matter if it's braked or suppressed, I see and feel a difference in precision when I deviate from a consistent load on the bi-pod, and keeping my body in alignment with the rifle (good recoil management). Most people who shoot a lot know as soon as they squeeze the trigger if that round is going to land on the X or fall wide because it did not feel like it should, or rather your body wasn't set right, when it fired.

Think about the bi-pod thread where Frank talks about how a Harris being out of square effects the shooting of his students. I'm pretty confident that poor recoil management has an even greater effect than a cheap bi-pod and a canted rifle on a rifle with significant recoil. This is merely experience and opinion, because at this point I do it like I do it and anything else feels wrong, and I don't care to run any tests.
 
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#41
Possibly semantics here. Talked to one instructor who stated to “remove slack” from bipod. That was his “no load position. From there anything ADDITIONAL he would call “loading” the bipod. In that language, not loading is OK, but still removing slack to be consistent.
 
#43
Hi,

Here is the bottom line IMO...whether you load, unload, semi load, yeet load, mil load, moa load, iphy load, etc etc....

It does not matter which one you utilize UNLESS you are consistent at it; you are going to be chasing POI.

NSWC has documented time after time that the elevation POI changes up to 1.5MOA between loading and unloading with same shooter, same rifle (Tac50) and same ammunition.

So just imagine where the elevation POI will be IF you are not consistent at whichever "hold" you run the bipod at.....

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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#48
rockwind1 said:
had an instructor tell me today that loading the bipod while prone of course was old school thinking and that if I didn't load it with exactly the same force each time accuracy would suffer. i never really thought of it like that. said to just not load it.

what do most top shooters on here do?

thanks, always looking to improve, not afraid of change. i've always loaded my atlas bipod a little bit.
Click to expand...
How were your instructors groups compared to yours?
 
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