Night Vision Loaner and scanner thermal need

[bmash]

I have an older (no internal recording, memory, saving zero, etc) IR Defense 35mm and NV but since my wife freaks if I go by myself and on occasion a property owner will want to go with me, I need a loaner for a guest. I would also use it as a scanner when no guest is present. I hunt pigs and coyotes in mostly wooded areas. (MS and LA).
I have done a bunch of research, and I am thinking a 384 with 35mm will do for my application. I have read that a scanner is used more and a 640 will help Id animals at a distance but I’m thinking scan to find it and bring the IR Defense up to identify and shoot.
Is 384 ok for guest to shoot about 100 yards?
I would love a N vision or Trijicon, but I would like to stay under 5k - even lower if a 384 will be sufficient.
I can afford another 640 if it is needed so please give thoughts.
Should I get one in case my current unit goes out?
Thoughts and recommendations on 384 vs 640 and specific models?
Thanks!

 

[BurtG]

Skeet l
C35
S35
UTM

T50



Guest should be happy he’s getting thermal for free.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I have read that a scanner is used more and a 640 will help Id animals at a distance

I is a myth that a 640 will always ID an animal at distance better than a 320 or 384. Many 320 units have much better resolution than 640 units. The biggest difference is the FOV that you have with a 320 vs a 640 unit.

The single biggest metric on how good resolution will be is how many Square Inches of viewing area 1 Focal Plane Array Pixel will be sampling at a given distance when comparing a 320 to a 640 unit. As a general statement a 320 unit with 1/2 the field of view as a 640 unit (all other metrics being similar) will have the same resolution.

With a narrower FOV you also have a higher native magnification.

Example:

A IR Defense REAP-IR 35mm is a 640 x480 FPA unit that has a total of 307,200 FPA Pixels working. It is a 12 Degree Horizontal x 9 Degree Vertical viewing area at 2.5 X Native Magnification. At 100 yards that is a total viewing area of 428,652 Square Inches divided by 307,200 FPA Pixels gathering data in that area. That works out to 1 FPA Pixel sampling every 1.395 Square Inches.

A Flir PTS 536 is a 320 x 256 FPA unit that has a total of 81,920 FPA Pixels working. It is a 4.5 Degree Horizontal x 3.5 Degree Vertical viewing area at 4.0 X Native Magnification. At 100 yards that is a total viewing area of 62,511.75 Square Inches divided by 81,920 FPA Pixels gathering data in that area. That works out to 1 FPA Pixel sampling every 0.763 Square Inches.

The Flir PTS 536 (320 Unit) has a very significant advantage over the Reap IR 35 (640 Unit) when it comes to ID'ing critters at distance.

 

[shoots100]

While it can be done, it's better to have a Spotter and a Scope, not both in one unit.
Scanner with a wide FOV, all the do dad features, just over $1K and you can even head mount it- AGM Taipan TM15-384.
Only negative's is it has an internal battery, but it'll last a whole evenings hunt and then some.
I tested and bought one two years ago and it's been a solid performer and what I use as my backup/loaner.
There's a plethora of rifle scopes available in the $4k range that are more than capable for your use.
I would get a unit that uses rechargeable 18650 batteries and not 123's or proprietary batteries.
Good luck.

SJC

 

[WhereNow&How]

While it can be done, it's better to have a spotter and a scanner, not both in one unit.

I think your wording of that sentence might be a little confusing to some. To clarify, I think what you meant to say was a it's better to have a spotter/scanner and a weapon mounted thermal, not both in one unit.

I lean towards a wide view spotter/scanner that's usually a low native magnification that will detect but not give very good PID and then do the PID and shooting with a stronger native magnification weapon mounted thermal.

If you happen into some huge field you can do some limited spotting with your rifle mounted thermal for a quick long range scan to see if anything is way out there which won't wear your arms out like trying to scan all night with a weapon mounted thermal.

 

[bmash]

That is what I’m thinking. How wide? Stay at 35 or go lower? Low power - how low? 1? 2? 4 or 5 is too high I think? There are so many options out there…

 

[WhereNow&How]

The IRay RL 25 Micro is a pretty good small spotter that can also be helmet mounted and rifle mounted as a dedicated TWS that is 10.5 Degrees H x 7.9 Degrees V at 2.0 X Native magnification. For right at $3,000 is a pretty good value IMHO. I dont own one yet but have been eyeing them for a while.

I mainly run Flir Breach's and they are FOV (HxV): 24° × 19°. 1 Pixel on them is sampling around 22 Square Inches at 100 yards whereas the IRay RL 25 is 1 Pixel sampling right at around 3.00 Square Inches. Since Flir has jacked their price up to around $2,900 lately, the IRay RL 25 is pretty much the same price but with much much better resolution. So it makes better sense dollar for dollar.

 

[shoots100]

That is what I’m thinking. How wide? Stay at 35 or go lower? Low power - how low? 1? 2? 4 or 5 is too high I think? There are so many options out there…

Go on manufacturers websites and check the FOV and display sizes of the units.
The TM15-384 is the cheapest thermal spotter with all the do dads, 17.5 x13 degree FOV and 1280x960 res .4" display.
Your not looking down a tube at a postage stamp sized display.
While I don't like promoting chineseium, I've beaten the crap out of it and it keeps on working.
AGM Taipan

 

[wigwamitus]

I is a myth that a 640 will always ID an animal at distance better than a 320 or 384. Many 320 units have much better resolution than 640 units. The biggest difference is the FOV that you have with a 320 vs a 640 unit.

The single biggest metric on how good resolution will be is how many Square Inches of viewing area 1 Focal Plane Array Pixel will be sampling at a given distance when comparing a 320 to a 640 unit. As a general statement a 320 unit with 1/2 the field of view as a 640 unit (all other metrics being similar) will have the same resolution.

With a narrower FOV you also have a higher native magnification.

Example:

A IR Defense REAP-IR 35mm is a 640 x480 FPA unit that has a total of 307,200 FPA Pixels working. It is a 12 Degree Horizontal x 9 Degree Vertical viewing area at 2.5 X Native Magnification. At 100 yards that is a total viewing area of 428,652 Square Inches divided by 307,200 FPA Pixels gathering data in that area. That works out to 1 FPA Pixel sampling every 1.395 Square Inches.

A Flir PTS 536 is a 320 x 256 FPA unit that has a total of 81,920 FPA Pixels working. It is a 4.5 Degree Horizontal x 3.5 Degree Vertical viewing area at 4.0 X Native Magnification. At 100 yards that is a total viewing area of 62,511.75 Square Inches divided by 81,920 FPA Pixels gathering data in that area. That works out to 1 FPA Pixel sampling every 0.763 Square Inches.

The Flir PTS 536 (320 Unit) has a very significant advantage over the Reap IR 35 (640 Unit) when it comes to ID'ing critters at distance.

This is one of the most important posts we've had in a while ^^ !!!

On the topic of resolution ...


There is more ... not only does the front end matter as who what where how now brown cow says ... the middle end matters (image processing) and the back end matters ( display ) and the physical lenses matter (front and back) but the rear end behind the rear end also matters - the eyes and brain of the observer ... what are they used to seeing ... what gaps do they fill in etc !!!

 

[kirsch]

There are many factors to consider. One of my roles as a Product Specialist for Night Goggles is to review your needs based on terrain, usage requirements, weapon, budget and more and then help narrow it down to a thermal or thermals that will best fit those needs. This is hard to cover in a forum post, so I sent you my cell number via PM if you wish to go in depth on the topic.

 

[bmash]

There are many factors to consider. One of my roles as a Product Specialist for Night Goggles is to review your needs based on terrain, usage requirements, weapon, budget and more and then help narrow it down to a thermal or thermals that will best fit those needs. This is hard to cover in a forum post, so I sent you my cell number via PM if you wish to go in depth on the topic.

thanks!

 

[Rerun7]

This is why I opt for units that can do more than one role whenever possible.

Having a scanner and a rifle mounted thermal is absolutely the way to go. And ensuring that scanner can also be used as rifle mounted allows the loaner or backup scope if your primary goes down.

I’ve been using a 384 2x mag scope for years and 200 yard shots are no issue. You can also detect and identify the difference between hog, deer, coyote at out to 500 when the animals are moving. You won’t be handicapped with the 384.

That being said, I recently bought a 640 2x mag from Bering and was pretty blown away by the image. I haven’t gotten to take it out yet but it looks great and the form factor is small enough to easily throw in a bino pack for scanning. They have several models in your budget.

 

[1911guy]

^^^this. I need a scanner too but figure I should go ahead and buy something with crosshairs just in case my scope goes down for some reason.