***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

[JC Steel]

Hey guys, I want to put together a list of cartridges and their pros/cons for everyone to see.

Here is what I am looking for. I have a Rem 700 Long Action with a Mag bolt face.

What should I build???

Uses-

1000-2000 yard gun and beyond if wanted
Long range hunting if wanted

I am a little concerned about Barrel life with a round like this but maybe that is just the nature of the Beast!

What kind of rounds should we be looking at for this application???

Thanks for all the help guys, And I hope this will help other people make a good choice as well.

Jake

 

[ELR researcher]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

This has already been done (very well) by bohem, see http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2081681&page=1

 

[jasonahull]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

338 Edge

 

[JC Steel]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

ELR, yes, I love Josh's thread and have read through it multiple times. There is some excellent info in there.

I'm trying to be more specific towards Long action may bolt face actions.

Thanks

 

[ELR researcher]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Please elaborate since bohem pretty well addressed all the issues you mentioned. In what way(s) "more specific".

Thanks.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

7mmRsaum is what I chose, not built yet still waiting for reamer

 

[JC Steel]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

There is alot of options that I have found. I really dont know what one is best overall but I would like to hear more about what you guys think. I have been pondering these guys:

7WSM
7SAUM
7RUM
7REM MAG
300 WSM
300 WM
338 RUM
338 EDGE
6.5WSM
270WSM
300RUM
338 WM


I dont like the barrel life of some of the 7 mags. But I also dont like the fact that the 338 Edge is somewhat limited to length because of the long bullets.

 

[Cegorach]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

30-375 ruger

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1115006

 

[2tuf4u]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Jake-- You're on the right track. How large is the budget for the complete rifle ( minus scope)? Are you considering a switch barrell rifle? Do you need a repeater? Do you have an overall length/weight consideration for the weapon? Are you recoil sensitive? Are you considering the eventual resale of the package. I raise these ??? because I have personally bought almost two dozen custom actions as well as target/tactical rifles over the past 20 years. Simpler is often better. Lots of improvements in bullets and cartridge design. Pick a cartridge and caliber having the internal and external ballistics for your range of shooting. Then build the gun (action, bbl and stock) around it.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

7 WSM 1,400-2,000 round barrel life. Tons of high bc bullets. The new EOL berger would be good. I would go 28" barrel and with Retumbo the 195gr EOL would be my starting point.

The 7 WSM used to have the 1 mile record with the 180 berger. Don't know if it still does. Thats a good indication of ELR performance.

 

[kjh762]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

If you plan on hunting with it at those ranges, I'd be launching something in 338 caliber. You still need a bullet that's not just going to poke a hole through.

 

[jerry1]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

What Velocity said. If you plan to hunt at the mile+ range you are going to need the energy.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Just for clarity i was not recommending Hunting with the 7 WSM at a mile, only plinking.

For hunting IMO the 7 is only good to about 1k.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

I am leaning towards the 338 Edge. I little more money to shoot but it gives my some down range power for sure.

I do like the 7WSM for sure but I dont like the barrel life. I am thinking decent barrel life would stop at around 1000-1200.

I would like a little more than that.

Please I want a legit gun that can reach out to 2000 yards and make some noise.

I am also looking at the 7Rem Mag but again barrel life is going to suffer.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

The problem is that the best of everything doesn't exist. Magnums have more powder and that kills barrel life, the short mags are better because they are less powder/higher pressure. The best that most of the short mags will give you is probably 2k of life. What is the minimum you are willing to accept for barrel life?

Berger has a 30 cal 230gr .719bc bullet but to push it fast enough to maintain that bc you will need a cartridge that gets about 1,200-2,000 rounds of barrel life.

The Matrix 175gr .277vld has a bc (tested) of .700, if you tip that bullet you may get as much as .735bc. But again to push it fast enough you need a WSM.

Im afraid your going to be stuck with a high bc .338 bullet that is moving slow out of an under powered cartridge. .338 Edge would give you the ballistics but if you don't like the length of the round then maybe a .338 win mag, 28" barrel, and 300gr Berger at 2,600fps? Barrel life would be about 2,500

 

[oinco]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

I went with the Edge, love it. Also have a light 300rum that shoots really well, and a 300wm I have yet to load for... I thought I would taste them all a bit, find the one I like and pare back down. Gonna be hard to beat the Edge, but the idea of a 300HSM/30-375ruger is very appealing....I may have a problem, I admit.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

I am thinking a 2000 round barrel life is something I want.

I am leaning towards the 7SWM with detachable bottom metal on a long action Stiller Predator. Or the same action and running a 338 edge from wyatts extended bottom metal box.

 

[kennyg]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

My vote goes to the 7 SAUM. Throated correctly in a long action setup you will have all the case capacity you need and better barrel life then the 7 WSM. JMHO

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am thinking a 2000 round barrel life is something I want.

I am leaning towards the 7SWM with detachable bottom metal on a long action Stiller Predator. Or the same action and running a 338 edge from wyatts extended bottom metal box. </div></div>

Do it you won't regret it. All the Benchmark built 7's have been unbelievably accurate, they have a great reamer for the 180gr Berger Hybrid that will give you 2,950-3,050fps out of a 26" barrel. If you tip that bullet the LR performance would be unreal. If you don't shoot more than 5 shots and then let it cool i'll bet you get 2k.

 

[biggjake]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Would an AI type magazine made for the 300 WM work with the 7 WSM?Or would it have to be altered?Thanks

 

[JC Steel]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

It will fit perfectly. No mods required. Thats kind of why its so appealing to me.

With the 338 edge I am just going to run into problems with loading the bullet as long as I would like to. It does give me a little more thump at that long range I want to shoot but DANG!!! CHOICES......

 

[jerry1]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

You are going to need energy to kill game at one mile. The .338 Edge would get my vote. You really need the heavier bullet.

 

[HireHeroes_JB]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

All of these comments are great. I still love the 300 wm, but that's just cause i have used it for a long time...know what it does.

Kinda clunky and not real sexy, but sure gets my long shots done.

 

[25MAN]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

I would go with the 7SAUM or 7WSM...both are equal from a performance stand point just a matter of preference....but in my opinion,it is VERY hard to beat the versatility of a 7mm. Wide range of high BC bullets, awesome performance with less recoil, and plenty of energy down range. you have the capability to ring steel at a mile and kill animals to 1000yd or beyond.

Barrel life is the only downfall as you will most likely get 1500 rounds top before needing a new tube.

rebarreling isn't all that bad cost wise and I think the enjoyment you'll get out of the 7mm, you will be happy with the decision and stop worrying about barrel life.

 

[T J]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Jake,

With the rifles you have now, what does the 7WSM offer that you don't already have? I really have to vote for the 338 here, either Lapua or Edge. In the Remmy configuration, I'd have to say Edge.

Here is a link to Shawn Carlock shooting an Edge to 2751yds with boring repeatability.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f...km-rifle-97859/


He's also (finally) found a supplier for what is being reported as Lapua quality, properly headstamped Edge brass.

If you really want to wack Fuzzy Wuzzies WAY out there, there is NO replacement for displacement. The LR Hunting guru's all pretty much agree that the 338 is where it's at.

I went a little off the beaten path & chose to run the 338RUM, 300SMK's @ 2780 is getting pretty dern close to Edge velocity.

It's going to be a weighted decision, which am I going to do more? Or at exactly what range do I want to cleanly harvest a critter? Both will get you to a mile or better on steel, the 338 even further than that.

On critters, it's a hands down, no contest decision. The 338 Edge will always trump 7WSM.


t

 

[Ouch!!]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Why not a 375 RUM with the 350smk at 2800??

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Jake. You probably know what my choise is, so I'll just say that I have 2200 rnds down my 300WM now with 225 HPBT Hornady's going 2836 fps.( I moly), & It still shoots around .25 moa if I do my part. Also I still have 1K ft/lbs to around 1200+ yd, & I can load for around 1/2 the cost of any 338. I have had it side by side with a couple 338's, & it will hold its own with them in anything except energy. So for me, it was the 300WM. Cheaper to shoot, almost the same performance of a 338, components are more available too.

 

[T J]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jake. You probably know what my choise is, so I'll just say that I have 2200 rnds down my 300WM now with 225 HPBT Hornady's going 2836 fps.( I moly), & It still shoots around .25 moa if I do my part. Also I still have 1K ft/lbs to around 1200+ yd, & I can load for around 1/2 the cost of any 338. I have had it side by side with a couple 338's, & it will hold its own with them in anything except energy. So for me, it was the 300WM. Cheaper to shoot, almost the same performance of a 338, components are more available too. </div></div>

The 300 is not a bad choice at all, great cartridge, easy to load for & very accurate. One of the guys at LRH took his antelope at +1200 yds with the 215 Berger. One of the more versatile do all cartridges IMHO.

t

 

[SnkBit]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

.338 Edge with Seekins bottom metal here, couldn't ask for more. I'm loaded long with room to chase the lands.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Hey Boys! Well, I dont know what kind of friend I am.....I built a rifle and did not even tell you guys about it.

Here it is in all its glory. Jeff, I just could not resist another one!!! It is VERY similar, but with a couple upgrades I think are well worth it.

Here are the specs--
338 Edge

Lefty Stiller Predator Long Action with Mag bolt face
Rock Creek 1000 Yard BR Barrel. .900 at muzzle, and its 30 inches long.
RWS muzzle brake
Manners T4A stock. All black with a badger front rail and two flush cups.
Seekins Precision 338 Lapua BOttom metal and 5 round mag. Mag holds 3.990. So I have plenty of room to make it rain!!
Left Handed Jewell Trigger
Atlas Bipod
Seekins 30MM Med. Rings
I went with a 5.5-22x56MM Nightforce scope. Mil, MLR, high speed knobs and zero stop.
I switched out the standard Stiller predator knob for a badger Or. bolt knob. I like it much better for my big paws.


I am running the 300 Grain Berger Hybrids right at 2850. Its a real hammer to say the least.

Here are some ballistics for you guys to chew on!!

Up here in the hills where I am hunting, these are the numbers. They are staggering.....

300 Grain Berger, 2850 FPS
Bullets does not go subsonic until 2572 yards!!
At the muzzle, I am carrying 5500 FT/LBS of energy
With a full value wind, I only have 30.5 inches of wind drift at 1000 YARDS
At 1000 yards, I have 2915 FT/LBS of energy
At 2000 yards, I still have 1425 Ft/LBS of engery, Amazing right there-Thats like my 308 at 450 yards. That is 2000 yards folks

Each time I fire a shot, it costs me $0.98
SO its not cheap, but its really not that expensive either.
I reload my own so I keep the cost down by finding deals on components and buying them in bulk.

Shot, buy FGMM 308 and your at over $1 a pop anyway.


Retail price on the entire package is $5102
I am into it roughly..........Just in case I sell it, I will keep that info to me. But I am not selling this one!! i like it,

BUT, what do you guys think???

 

[temecula]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Very Nice Rifle bro

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Nice stick Jake!!! To be honest, I am considering retooling to a 338Edge when my 300wm brl finally wears out, but haven't decided. When I get the time & $$ at the same time I'll have to get over there for some elr practice.

 

[BGE541]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

Think the bolts on the wrong side!

But really those are some impressive numbers. my 300's do well out to 1500 meters with a safe consistant load so if your going longer deff bump it up to the Edge!

 

[jerry1]

Re: ***Long Action/Mag Bolt Face choices!! HELP....

I clearly would vote for a .338 of some kind. If you want any energy left to kill a large animal then you need the heavy bullet. On the Remington LA it would be the .338 Edge. As one poster said "you can't have it all in one cartridge." I would happily accept less barrel life for a real bullet that makes it to target with authority.