Long Action Magazine Interchangeability

[rlsmith1]

@lash and @Tyler Kemp I figured we could start a new thread to kick ideas around instead of polluting @Terry Cross’s thread haha.

So, the objective is to allow someone to go from shooting 308 Win to 338 Lapua with the change of a barrel, bolt and magazine. Extra points if it’s possible to step down to 223 sized cases (would also have to bug Joe make a 223 faced LA bolt). Personally, I’m running a Zeus QC in a KRG Bravo at the moment and have Standard, Mag and Lapua bolts / barrels.

I’m totally fine with single stack mags with 5rd minimum capacity. 10 rounders would be nice especially for the SA calibers. Double stack might be a necessity if 223 is an option.

So far, the two trains of thought are:

1. Printed magazines that are proprietary and fit in the LA mag well. Pros would be quality control and customization for mag length (3.715” vs 3.80” length, etc.)

2. Printed adapter that allows for other magazines to be used. An advantage would be ability to use current magazines but there would be variances introduced which may impact reliability

Before long, I’ll get some pics up of what I’m using currently. Until then, it’s opening day of bow season here so I’m gonna think about this in a tree stand!

 

[lash]

Okay, so what about a spacer insert, follower and spring kit that would allow use of .308 based SA calibers in a CIP mag? Similar in concept to the kits that adapt .308 mags for 6BR. I think that @Tyler Kemp currently makes some of the 6BR kits, though I could be wrong.

 

[lash]

Spacer kit for the above would have to address the smaller diameter (width) of the .308 case.

 

[spamassassin]

Are you meaning a single magazine body serving multiple case head sizes and action lengths? That could be done pretty easily by using a plain jane 10rd mag and then lopping the feed lip section off and notching the mag body in a few places so that something not entirely unlike a Garand en-bloc clip can be pushed in and lock up with the notches to form the feed lips. Would probably want to go double stack single feed for simplicity's sake. Then a suitable follower, spring and floor plate and for the tiny stuff like 223 probably a liner insert for the mag body to shrink its width to the appropriate width for a double stack of 223 size cases. Desert Tech already has a single action that can take 223rem-338lap. Granted they don't make the 223 conversion, SAC does that. I feed 223s through my desert tech all the time.

 

[spife7980]

Copy the tikka system, different internal dimensions but all externally the same.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

If it's customized magazines, as spife said, do it like the Tikka. No need for a spacer kit, and no one buying mags wants to swap around spacers if not necessary.

Someone PM me, call, me, email me, etc if this gonna be a thing! Custom springs will be the longest task to finalize.

 

[mercracing]

I just picked up an AnTi with this goal in mind! Can't wait to see how this goes!

 

[rlsmith1]

If it's customized magazines, as spife said, do it like the Tikka. No need for a spacer kit, and no one buying mags wants to swap around spacers if not necessary.

Someone PM me, call, me, email me, etc if this gonna be a thing! Custom springs will be the longest task to finalize.

Already sent a PM!!

 

[Bandit31]

I’ve wanted something like this for a long time and would be down if the mags come to fruition.

I haven’t seen the magpul aics long action mags since they came out but I guess if they’re printed, my concern would be the structural integrity of the mag and having thin walls.

However, having the availability of mags with the same external dimensions of my CIP mags but will reliably run SA/LA .473” bolt face cartridges and another option for short mags would be killer.

 

[Scrumbag]

Copy the tikka system, different internal dimensions but all externally the same.

That would be my thought

 

[lash]

I’ve wanted something like this for a long time and would be down if the mags come to fruition.

I haven’t seen the magpul aics long action mags since they came out but I guess if they’re printed, my concern would be the structural integrity of the mag and having thin walls.

However, having the availability of mags with the same external dimensions of my CIP mags but will reliably run SA/LA .473” bolt face cartridges and another option for short mags would be killer.

My thought on the CIP mags would be to use a metal side plate welded/stitched into the printed mag. Not exactly sure if that’s a feasible option. On the other hand, CIP mags already exist for LA. All you really need is the short action stuff made to fit the LA.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

I think making SA cartridge mags to fit into a LA is the way to go. The CIP, no way to do without metal printing and then you're talking big bucks.

 

[rlsmith1]

I think making SA cartridge mags to fit into a LA is the way to go. The CIP, no way to do without metal printing and then you're talking big bucks.

I'm still getting oriented on LA, AICS (3.715"), and CIP (3.850"). Just so I'm understanding everything clearly, the AICS would be more doable than AICS?

I'm running a KRG Bravo stock so ultimately that's what I'm trying to make work. It has a spacer for AICS mags (what I'm using now) but making something work in CIP would be ideal so I can run longer Norma / Lapua rounds.

 

[Bandit31]

My thought on the CIP mags would be to use a metal side plate welded/stitched into the printed mag. Not exactly sure if that’s a feasible option. On the other hand, CIP mags already exist for LA. All you really need is the short action stuff made to fit the LA.

I know they exist, I was just considering additional points of entry for those that don’t have CIP mags and would be looking to printed options.

Accurate 3.850 mags are about $80 and MDT’s are approaching $100, but I see that Tyler said a printed option with metal inserts would be getting up there in price. If the cost of a printed option with metal inserts would be approaching current all metal options, I guess it’s more of a mute issue.

 

[Bandit31]

I'm still getting oriented on LA, AICS (3.715"), and CIP (3.850"). Just so I'm understanding everything clearly, the AICS would be more doable than AICS?

I'm running a KRG Bravo stock so ultimately that's what I'm trying to make work. It has a spacer for AICS mags (what I'm using now) but making something work in CIP would be ideal so I can run longer Norma / Lapua rounds.

You can run CIP length mags in the long action KRG chassis, just take the supplied spacer out of the fore end.

 

[rlsmith1]

The metal mags I’m currently using are en route to Missouri! Hopefully these will serve as a good starting point. Excited to see where this ends up!

 

[Mr.BR]

AI AXSR Dual stack dual feed Lapua mag sized mags for short, magnum and LM-sized cartridges.

Sako TRG M10 double stack single feed, are probably better suited to most actions than double feed AI mags. Like AXSR these mags are expensive as fuck. They are 10rd for short action and 7rd for .338LM

Design is quite generic to older Sako TRG22/42 mags

Tubb Adaptive Rifle Magazines double feed double stack mags are machined from billet and multicaliber so you change internals for short to Lapua mag chamberings
Capacities for the machined magazine are 13rds/308,10rds/284, 7rds/300WSM, and 6rds/338 Norma.

 

[rlsmith1]

Those look great but I don’t think many factory stocks / chassis would allow for that?

I’m good with single stacks as long we hit the 5rd minimum. SA cartridges with 10rd would be really nice too

 

[Mr.BR]

Mountain tactical billet Tikka Mag , for single stack ,but a 10rd single stack is not practical by any means.

Tikka long action caliber stock/chassis

Would like to build a 300 win mag off the Tikka action. Plan was to use a krg bravo but they don’t seem to have one for long action calibers. What are you guys doing for a stock?

www.snipershide.com

 

[7mmShooter]

Briefly chatted with pretty sure it was @Tyler Kemp about 2 years ago on this very subject! Same mag body with different internal dimensions would work the best it seems, although a swappable magwell insert isn’t necessarily out of the question for someone buying a new chassis, like MK’s Bullpup Chassis

The concept of one rifle setup swappable from .223bf up through Lapua has been a desire of mine for sure

 

[7mmShooter]

@lash and @Tyler Kemp I figured we could start a new thread to kick ideas around instead of polluting @Terry Cross’s thread haha.

So, the objective is to allow someone to go from shooting 308 Win to 338 Lapua with the change of a barrel, bolt and magazine. Extra points if it’s possible to step down to 223 sized cases (would also have to bug Joe make a 223 faced LA bolt). Personally, I’m running a Zeus QC in a KRG Bravo at the moment and have Standard, Mag and Lapua bolts / barrels.

I’m totally fine with single stack mags with 5rd minimum capacity. 10 rounders would be nice especially for the SA calibers. Double stack might be a necessity if 223 is an option.

So far, the two trains of thought are:

1. Printed magazines that are proprietary and fit in the LA mag well. Pros would be quality control and customization for mag length (3.715” vs 3.80” length, etc.)

2. Printed adapter that allows for other magazines to be used. An advantage would be ability to use current magazines but there would be variances introduced which may impact reliability

Before long, I’ll get some pics up of what I’m using currently. Until then, it’s opening day of bow season here so I’m gonna think about this in a tree stand!

Talked to Joel before about doing a 223 bolt for the Kratos/Zeus LA and he said he could probably do it just had to draw it up and find time

 

[rlsmith1]

Quick update, got an email a couple days ago that prototype mags are about ready to print and test. Will keep you updated!

 

[7mmShooter]

Quick update, got an email a couple days ago that prototype mags are about ready to print and test. Will keep you updated!

Sweet, I actually had just emailed them a couple days ago for an update on this so the timing couldn’t be better. Can’t wait to see what they come up with

 

[Franko]

Got directed here from another thread and looking forward to hearing more. Very much interested in being able to run a a short magnum (6.5PRC or maybe a 300WSM) without issues in a long action.

 

[Milf Dots]

I coincidentally started another thread on this topic and was told about this thread and that mags are being R&D'd, so perhaps my goal of a single rifle built to reliably run 6.5cm, 6.5 prc, 7mm prc, and 300 prc, will be doable!

 

[richthe1]

Interested as well! Especially if 223 is possible.

 

[Milf Dots]

If this mag thing works out it'll be fantastic!

 

[richthe1]

Quick update, got an email a couple days ago that prototype mags are about ready to print and test. Will keep you updated!

Just curious - would these prototype mags only work in the KRG Bravo chassis?

 

[7mmShooter]

Curious as well, if this works out I’m thinking of pairing it with MK’s bullpup chassis

 

[rlsmith1]

Just curious - would these prototype mags only work in the KRG Bravo chassis?

The idea is to have these mags work with any stock / chassis that accept AICS (3.715”) mags

ETA: I asked about CIP 3.80” mags but that may require different (more expensive) materials and processes

 

[7mmShooter]

The idea is to have these mags work with any stock / chassis that accept CIP (3.715”) mags

ETA: I asked about 3.80” mags but that may require different (more expensive) materials and processes

The CIP length mags are the 3.85” (3.760~ internal) mags if I remember right?

 

[rlsmith1]

The CIP length mags are the 3.85” (3.760~ internal) mags if I remember right?

There’s a couple lengths, I honestly have trouble keeping them straight.

I was wrong, AICS is the 3.715” and CIP is 3.850”. I’ll correct my above post

 

[7mmShooter]

There’s a couple lengths, I honestly have trouble keeping them straight.

I was wrong, AICS is the 3.715” and CIP is 3.850”. I’ll correct my above post

No worries, it can definitely be tricky sometimes

 

[richthe1]

Quick update, got an email a couple days ago that prototype mags are about ready to print and test. Will keep you updated!

@rlsmith1 @Tyler Kemp

If this comes to fruition, any idea when this would be available to the public to purchase?

 

[Tyler Kemp]

@rlsmith1 @Tyler Kemp

If this comes to fruition, any idea when this would be available to the public to purchase?

Realistically I am hoping summer. We printed some protos this week, but have a LOT of irons in the fire now so can't devote as many hours as I'd like to new projects.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Realistically I am hoping summer. We printed some protos this week, but have a LOT of irons in the fire now so can't devote as many hours as I'd like to new projects.

How about them 30mm billet bubble levels?

 

[richthe1]

Realistically I am hoping summer. We printed some protos this week, but have a LOT of irons in the fire now so can't devote as many hours as I'd like to new projects.

Thanks for the update! Honestly, I’m a little surprised this hasn’t been done yet. If this works, maybe a LA MK Bullpup Chassis will be in my future as well

 

[Tyler Kemp]

How about them 30mm billet bubble levels?

Did you see the new style? I'm going to make a post soon, people are REALLY gonna like them.

 

[richthe1]

Realistically I am hoping summer. We printed some protos this week, but have a LOT of irons in the fire now so can't devote as many hours as I'd like to new projects.

Sorry to keep asking you questions - I know you’re busy. Just trying to budget out what I’d need if these mags do, in fact, come out this summer.

These mags would work in your LA Bullpup chassis, allowing me to shoot SA (308W, 6/6.5CM) all the way up to 300 PRC and 300NM, correct? And it looks like if I ran the Zeus LA QC in your chassis I’d just have to run the cheek piece a little higher due to the integrated scope rail on the Zeus action.

I reached out to your CS team about a NV bridge for a clip on on the MK2 Bullpup Chassis and was told “we do plan on releasing a forward bridge for thermal clip-ons, but we do not as of yet.” Will this forward bridge be an add-on to the MK2 Chassis, or would I have to wait for a MK3 version?

 

[Tyler Kemp]

Sorry to keep asking you questions - I know you’re busy. Just trying to budget out what I’d need if these mags do, in fact, come out this summer.

These mags would work in your LA Bullpup chassis, allowing me to shoot SA (308W, 6/6.5CM) all the way up to 300 PRC and 300NM, correct? And it looks like if I ran the Zeus LA QC in your chassis I’d just have to run the cheek piece a little higher due to the integrated scope rail on the Zeus action.

I reached out to your CS team about a NV bridge for a clip on on the MK2 Bullpup Chassis and was told “we do plan on releasing a forward bridge for thermal clip-ons, but we do not as of yet.” Will this forward bridge be an add-on to the MK2 Chassis, or would I have to wait for a MK3 version?

Correct that mags would all work in the LA chassis-there is an insert to take standard or CIP length mags. And yes on cheekpiece being raised up a touch to clear the rail. Or just sit it on top of the rail to be honest.

NV bridge will be coming for MK2, MK2.5, etc, it will interface with the MLOK rail.

I've got an experienced firearms engineer coming on board soon and this should really expedite prototyping and such, and give me more time to pursue my other business venture as well. Win-win!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Did you see the new style? I'm going to make a post soon, people are REALLY gonna like them.

I don’t know anything about the new style, I just need a 30mm bubble level and they’ve been out of stock. I called 3-4 months ago and spoke to a lady there that said they were due in about a month.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

I don’t know anything about the new style, I just need a 30mm bubble level and they’ve been out of stock. I called 3-4 months ago and spoke to a lady there that said they were due in about a month.

You're about to be pleasantly surprised cause you'll get the new style! We have been seriously let down by the local machine shop I've used for a few years since deciding to invest solely in additive in-house. Decided to make a change and parts are suddenly beginning to roll in on time and to spec

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You're about to be pleasantly surprised cause you'll get the new style! We have been seriously let down by the local machine shop I've used for a few years since deciding to invest solely in additive in-house. Decided to make a change and parts are suddenly beginning to roll in on time and to spec

What's the ETA on them? I'm basically going to order yours or an Accuracy 1st, whichever comes in stock first.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

What's the ETA on them? I'm basically going to order yours or an Accuracy 1st, whichever comes in stock first.

We have some ready. Shoot us an email [email protected], and Tyler has given permission for you to be an initial tester.

I am confident you will find the level to have superior sensitivity, positioning (visible but not sticking out past knobs), lower profile both for installation and scope tube real estate, and of course about half the price. These are gonna be popular.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

We have some ready. Shoot us an email [email protected], and Tyler has given permission for you to be an initial tester.

I am confident you will find the level to have superior sensitivity, positioning (visible but not sticking out past knobs), lower profile both for installation and scope tube real estate, and of course about half the price. These are gonna be popular.

Email sent, thanks.

 

[elham]

Any update on the multi-caliber mag development?

 

[richthe1]

Curious as well!

Unfortunately, I emailed Terminus back in May and Joel responded saying: “We don’t have any plans to make a Long action 223 bolt.” This was in May, so not sure if anything has changed since then.

 

[rlsmith1]

Curious as well!

Unfortunately, I emailed Terminus back in May and Joel responded saying: “We don’t have any plans to make a Long action 223 bolt.” This was in May, so not sure if anything has changed since then.

I spoke with them last week, and it sounds like they are going to go the spacer route as printing mags out of the material they have isn't really feasible. I guess they have been making spacers for competition guys running 6 Dasher / GTs (can't remember which) in a medium action so they have an idea of where they are headed with all this.

At this point, they are testing some MDT mags and possibly the Magpul LA 30-06 mag to see if they will feed 308 reliably. Of course, the metal mags allow for bending the feed lips to where they need to be for function. I've got my magazines back (they were using them for measurements), so hopeful this can get wrapped up soon!

I talked to Joe a year ago and he said a LA 223 bolt could be done on a custom basis, but I think he's pretty swamped with regular business right now. The 223 mag will be a little different animal to tackle and I'd love to make it happen but that will probably be a next round thing

 

[richthe1]

I spoke with them last week, and it sounds like they are going to go the spacer route as printing mags out of the material they have isn't really feasible. I guess they have been making spacers for competition guys running 6 Dasher / GTs (can't remember which) in a medium action so they have an idea of where they are headed with all this.

At this point, they are testing some MDT mags and possibly the Magpul LA 30-06 mag to see if they will feed 308 reliably. Of course, the metal mags allow for bending the feed lips to where they need to be for function. I've got my magazines back (they were using them for measurements), so hopeful this can get wrapped up soon!

I talked to Joe a year ago and he said a LA 223 bolt could be done on a custom basis, but I think he's pretty swamped with regular business right now. The 223 mag will be a little different animal to tackle and I'd love to make it happen but that will probably be a next round thing

Thanks for the update! Thanks for keeping us in the loop of if/when things happen!

 

[Bandit31]

@Tyler Kemp any update on the mags?