Long range (1000 yard) reloading for 308...168 gr. SMK vs. 175 gr. SMK vs. 185 gr. Berger Juggernaut

[Powder_Burns]

Don’t take this as gospel, but looking at published load data across several decades the trend is max load charge weights have gone down, we call the book max ‘lawyer loads’. As always, start at minimum charge weight or 10% from max and work your way up. The catch to that is in certain cartridges, 10% below max can be below the starting charge weight. Don’t be stupid and increase charge weight if you are seeing excessive pressure signs in your brass or primers. Find an accuracy node and stay there.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

The 175 is for out to a thousand.

 

[boisepaw]

Don’t take this as gospel, but looking at published load data across several decades the trend is max load charge weights have gone down, we call the book max ‘lawyer loads’. As always, start at minimum charge weight or 10% from max and work your way up. The catch to that is in certain cartridges, 10% below max can be below the starting charge weight. Don’t be stupid and increase charge weight if you are seeing excessive pressure signs in your brass or primers. Find an accuracy node and stay there.

Good input.

Chasing accuracy, low SD, low ES and higher velocity is what I'm doing. Right now when I am loading at the charge weights in the loading manual, I am NOT getting the velocity listed in the loading manual. Sometimes as much as 100 fps lower than the manual says I might expect.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

Continuing to ask questions about my load development. Remington 700 Varminter stock rifle...1:10 twist...26" fluted barrel. I'm looking for something that would give me excellent accuracy at 1000 yards and beyond.

I've got excellent loads for the 168 gr. SMK and the 175 gr. SMK...excellent in terms of 100 yard accuracy (sub MOA) and SD < 10 and ES < 20.

I've heard of the 185 gr. Juggernaut but never loaded it. I happened into some Nosler Accubond 180 gr. bullets that I haven't loaded yet.

Suggestion for bullets for target (non-hunting) accuracy out to 1000 yards and beyond? And while we're at it...what powder? I have a bunch of options on my loading bench...

I am using 185 and love the results.

 

[boisepaw]

I am using 185 and love the results.

I’m looking at the 185 Juggernaut. Any other 185 you would suggest?

 

[boisepaw]

The 175 is for out to a thousand.

not beyond 1000? You figure that’s the limit for that bullet?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Yes, I'm pretty sure the Marines call for 1000 and the Army 800 or 900 for the 175. The 168 was originally designed for 300 meter competition. But the 168 is good at 600 as well. Of course you can shoot them farther. I think military has a handful of confirmed kills past 1000 with the 175 for example.

That is the whole point moving off the standard .308 precision round with other short actions with more precision further out.

 

[boisepaw]

Yes, I'm pretty sure the Marines call for 1000 and the Army 800 or 900 for the 175. The 168 was originally designed for 300 meter competition. But the 168 is good at 600 as well. Of course you can shoot them farther. I think military has a handful of confirmed kills past 1000 with the 175 for example.

That is the whole point moving off the standard .308 precision round with other short actions with more precision further out.

So what you are trying to tell me is that the Marines are better shots?
I’m stayin’ outta this one.

 

[squib-load]

Don’t take this as gospel, but looking at published load data across several decades the trend is max load charge weights have gone down, we call the book max ‘lawyer loads’. As always, start at minimum charge weight or 10% from max and work your way up. The catch to that is in certain cartridges, 10% below max can be below the starting charge weight. Don’t be stupid and increase charge weight if you are seeing excessive pressure signs in your brass or primers. Find an accuracy node and stay there.

the problem in the 308 space is that there are just a plethora of brass suppliers and case weight/volumes differ greatly. custom barrel mfgs are now more prolific and are not just the perview of experienced had loaders..

so if a newbie goes out and buys a custom 308 with a short tight chamber, say a palma150 which is very popular, has a tight bore, and uses a low volume brass like LCLR or newer FCXX (mil)/ FGMM then pressures can build... quickly...

a 175smk loaded to 2.8 in a palma150 will be jammed... with a zero headspace chamber..

etc...

 

[squib-load]

Yes, I'm pretty sure the Marines call for 1000 and the Army 800 or 900 for the 175. The 168 was originally designed for 300 meter competition. But the 168 is good at 600 as well. Of course you can shoot them farther. I think military has a handful of confirmed kills past 1000 with the 175 for example.

That is the whole point moving off the standard .308 precision round with other short actions with more precision further out.

both the m24 and m40 are cataloged and spec'd for 800m max effective range.

I believe each service has a slightly different definition of max effective range but .. and I am paraphrasing from memory here.. generally refers to a percentage hit probability on a man sized target.. etc .etc..

now.. not to say that a 308 won't kill a man it that range.. and most of the ELR shots of late have been chalked up to high altitude/high density altitude (thin air bullets have more energy downrange), luck, and no body armor on the typical tally target...

again.. I shoot a off the rack remington 700 20" 308 tactical at some of our F Matches at Camp Lejuene and can regularly score 170s with it when winds cooperate (I am not the best wind caller) but its coming down practically vertically and has little tolerance for velocity deviation ... considering each ring is 10" ~1MOA at 1000 the 9 ring is 20" across or just about man shoulder chest height.. so a 180 score is a 100% man sized hit factor in the chest.. whether it would do the job would depend on terminal effects on vitals... now F Class is not a 2 way range.. plenty of warm up shots and fine tuning before shooting for score.. the odds of a first round hit inside the 9 ring.. yeah... not so much..

 

[milprileb]

Lots of truths in this thread...based on their barrels...not yours. At 1000 yd line here at Quantico, 308's are on life support for precision shooting (unless you are shooting big bullseye CMP /NRA targets with large score rings). 168's stay at 600 yd line, they flounder for accuracy beyond that distance. Some can do 168's barely at 800 yd line but its basket ball size groups or larger. 175's are the ticket as are 185's at 1000 yds with 308 but those with 24" barrels suck swamp water compared to those with 26" barrels for accuracy.

Berger / Lapua bullets fly better...they just do but production grade Hornady, Sierra and some Noslers will be just fine if you do load development properly.

Since I shoot production grade bullets, I have found two things to tighten my groups significantly. Now this is a PITA and will turn some of you off but I buy my bullets in 1000 rd lots. In winter it takes me two 3 hour sessions to weigh and cull bullets so that I can load each box with bullets of same weight. Once culled, the benefit brings accuracy on the Berger bullet level of performance...yes I've used Bergers and compared results and the culling of bullets pays off for me.

Barrels tell the story: In this thread there is reference to the Navy Load and then someone nuanced any gas rifle load won't hold water for 1000 yds. Well...beyond my ability to read clouds and fog, the Mk 316 Mod "O" load of IMR 4064 at 41.745 grains pushing a 175 gr SMK is a phenomena. I loaded these up for my M14 specifically for 800 /1000 yd work and its bloody accurate..but i was take aback...its one of the most accurate loads out of my 308 Tikka bolt rifle ever. Its not a max loading, its FPS is not rolling hot like some of my other hand loads ( MOA /SUB MOA at 1000 yds) but this Navy load is just accurate at 1000 yds from my Tikka.

Yes , I have a scale that measures minutely to 41.745 grains but if I did not, I'd use 42 grains and bet results be the same.

I do anneal cases every time they're fired. I always weigh charges and on average, my primer pockets get loose long before 5x hand loads. I toss brass after 4x hand loads if used in my M14...loose primer pockets kill brass life here. The cases themselves would last longer ..far longer if I was not a 1000 yd shooter all the time.

 

[straightshooter1]

I do anneal cases every time they're fired. I always weigh charges and on average, my primer pockets get loose long before 5x hand loads. I toss brass after 4x hand loads if used in my M14...loose primer pockets kill brass life here. The cases themselves would last longer ..far longer if I was not a 1000 yd shooter all the time.

So, what brass are you using that has such a short life?

 

[Ol' RD]

I'm pushing Hornady 178gr ELD-Ms out of a 24 inch Shilen #10 barrel to speeds that drop jaws at the club. 47.7grs of 2000-MR in lapua brass lit off by CCI 200 primers. COAL 2.815, I wish I could say this is my load but I have to give credit for the load to Frank. I give credit for the rifle build to Austin Cook at A2 Precision. Sylvia is a tack hammer.

 

[straightshooter1]

I'm pushing Hornady 178gr ELD-Ms out of a 24 inch Shilen #10 barrel to speeds that drop jaws at the club. 47.7grs of 2000-MR in lapua brass lit off by CCI 200 primers. COAL 2.815, I wish I could say this is my load but I have to give credit for the load to Frank. I give credit for the rifle build to Austin Cook at A2 Precision. Sylvia is a tack hammer.

Yeah, that 2000-MR can really get some high velocity. About 2 years ago I was getting 2660 fps out of a factory 20" barrel with 49.0 gr of it pushing 175 SMK's and with a COAL of 2.876. But the best accuracy for that barrel was with 45.8 grs seated .010 off lands (COAL: 2.862), which got me 2609 fps. I just stopped using it, as here in AZ it's just a little too temperature sensitive for me.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

1000 Yard FTR shooter here.

I'd run the 185 Jugs and never look back. You're going to need all the BC you can get, and it makes a huge difference at 1k.

Although I don't use Alliant Powders for my FTR loads, I've seen lots of guys run PP 2000MR to some crazy high velocities, and the loads do seem to hold up through their 20 round strings.

Still, for a 24" barrel, Varget and N140 would be the powders I'd look to for the best accuracy; I wouldn't necessarily go chasing some specific velocity number either...I'd shoot whatever looks best on target and get my wind calls right.

Brass...there is only one answer for high pressure 308 loads. It's Lapua Palma brass. Don't use anything else. I've shot barrels out on a single batch of 100 cases before, and we're talking about 200gr bullets going ~2650, and pockets are still just fine.

 

[Adrock8000]

Im glad that i happened upon this thread, as ive been doing load development on some 175's also and was wondering what fps id need to be around to get to 1000, and also my data may help someone els?

So anyway, im using the 175gn nosler custom competition and IMR 8208 XRB. The 175 nosler cc's are virtually identical to the 175 SMKs. Nosler states the max charge is 42.0 of xbr seated at 2.800. Today i started at 42.5 and went up by .2gn to 43.3 (previously started lower and worked up to this) saw no pressure signs to speak of today.

i had never used 8208 XBR before this load work up, but all of my sd's today were under 9 and i'm getting 2550 fps avrage at 42.5gn up to 2587 fps average at 43.3gn (5 shot groups)

rifle is a .308 ruger american predator with an 18" 1-10 twist.
my elevation is 950 ish. temp today when shooting was 84, humidity was about 80%

loads were
hornady match brass trim to 2.007 (h20 cap 55.4)
175 nosler custom competition (bc.505)
COL- 2.830
B-ogive 2.245
fedral match large rifle primers 210m
42.7 of IMR 8208 XBR
(lowest sd of 6.8 and best 5 shot group .316)

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Im glad that i happened upon this thread, as ive been doing load development on some 175's also and was wondering what fps id need to be around to get to 1000, and also my data may help someone els?

So anyway, im using the 175gn nosler custom competition and IMR 8208 XRB. The 175 nosler cc's are virtually identical to the 175 SMKs. Nosler states the max charge is 42.0 of xbr seated at 2.800. Today i started at 42.5 and went up by .2gn to 43.3 (previously started lower and worked up to this) saw no pressure signs to speak of today.

i had never used 8208 XBR before this load work up, but all of my sd's today were under 9 and i'm getting 2550 fps avrage at 42.5gn up to 2587 fps average at 43.3gn (5 shot groups)

rifle is a .308 ruger american predator with an 18" 1-10 twist.
my elevation is 950 ish. temp today when shooting was 84, humidity was about 80%

loads were
hornady match brass trim to 2.007 (h20 cap 55.4)
175 nosler custom competition (bc.505)
COL- 2.830
B-ogive 2.245
fedral match large rifle primers 210m
42.7 of IMR 8208 XBR
(lowest sd of 6.8 and best 5 shot group .316)

2550 is about the bare minimum you'll need to consistently stay supersonic at 1k at your altitude. If you go to a lower altitude and see any oncoming wind you may have issues.

I wouldn't shoot on e-targets at 1k with that setup, but for steel it should work fine.

 

[LooseGoose]

Lots of truths in this thread...based on their barrels...not yours. At 1000 yd line here at Quantico, 308's are on life support for precision shooting (unless you are shooting big bullseye CMP /NRA targets with large score rings). 168's stay at 600 yd line, they flounder for accuracy beyond that distance. Some can do 168's barely at 800 yd line but its basket ball size groups or larger. 175's are the ticket as are 185's at 1000 yds with 308 but those with 24" barrels suck swamp water compared to those with 26" barrels for accuracy.

Berger / Lapua bullets fly better...they just do but production grade Hornady, Sierra and some Noslers will be just fine if you do load development properly.

Since I shoot production grade bullets, I have found two things to tighten my groups significantly. Now this is a PITA and will turn some of you off but I buy my bullets in 1000 rd lots. In winter it takes me two 3 hour sessions to weigh and cull bullets so that I can load each box with bullets of same weight. Once culled, the benefit brings accuracy on the Berger bullet level of performance...yes I've used Bergers and compared results and the culling of bullets pays off for me.

Barrels tell the story: In this thread there is reference to the Navy Load and then someone nuanced any gas rifle load won't hold water for 1000 yds. Well...beyond my ability to read clouds and fog, the Mk 316 Mod "O" load of IMR 4064 at 41.745 grains pushing a 175 gr SMK is a phenomena. I loaded these up for my M14 specifically for 800 /1000 yd work and its bloody accurate..but i was take aback...its one of the most accurate loads out of my 308 Tikka bolt rifle ever. Its not a max loading, its FPS is not rolling hot like some of my other hand loads ( MOA /SUB MOA at 1000 yds) but this Navy load is just accurate at 1000 yds from my Tikka.

Yes , I have a scale that measures minutely to 41.745 grains but if I did not, I'd use 42 grains and bet results be the same.

I do anneal cases every time they're fired. I always weigh charges and on average, my primer pockets get loose long before 5x hand loads. I toss brass after 4x hand loads if used in my M14...loose primer pockets kill brass life here. The cases themselves would last longer ..far longer if I was not a 1000 yd shooter all the time.

42.0 of 4064 is my go to for the 175 in hornady brass out of my factory Savage, .3 MOA if you exclude the flyer and .8 if you count it. You're right on the money.

 

[Adrock8000]

42.0 of 4064 is my go to for the 175 in hornady brass out of my factory Savage, .3 MOA if you exclude the flyer and .8 if you count it. You're right on the money.

I’ve see this program a lot on here where do I find it?

 

[Longshot231]

Has anyone tried the Lapua 167 grain bullets in the 308? I cannot find any B/C published for them as well.

 

[LooseGoose]

I’ve see this program a lot on here where do I find it?

That one is an app called Range Buddy on Android, not sure if it's on iPhone but I imagine it is. It's a little unintuitive at first but with some fidgeting and hitting random buttons that look like what you want it works well.

Another one I see a lot over on reddit is Ballistic X but I havent personally used it.

 

[buffybuster]

I haven't read through the entire thread but if this has been covered.
If you're looking for a magfed General Purpose load that can go to 1Kyds then the 175's or the new Berger 168's would be my recommendation. If you're looking for a magfed more dedicated long range load then I'd lean heavily to the 185's. If you want a dedicated 1K load and single feed then I'd go with the 208's. That Remington barrel has a looong throat so you can seat the 208's out quite a ways which gains you powder capacity and the 26" barrel will get you 2700fps.

 

[Jtigertic]

I've got some Berger Juggernauts laying around here wasn't impressed with the results I got with .308 but didn't play with it all that much. My go to is 175 SMK with Hornady brass, federal match primer, and either 42gr 4064 or 45gr of CFE223. With the 4064 I'm pushing about 2550 out of my 26 barrel Remington 700 and about 2500 out of my 18 barrel AR 10. With 45gr CFE 223 I am pushing 2575 out of my 18 AR10 and 2660 out of my Remington 700. I've had both out to 600 with good results, my 700 likes about .010 off the lands and could go a littler hotter but shoots 1.5-2 inch groups at 600. With the AR10 45gr is max with a little flattening of primer and a little smiley on the back of the brass. It shoots about 4 inch groups at 600. Hodgdon lists 45.5 start and 47.5 max, my AR was over pressure at 46 I almost had blown primers. But with the 700 46 looked fine but with single digit SD's and good groups at 600 I will stick with 45gr. I know you his doesn't help with the 185 Juggernauts but maybe will help with a nice load for 175's for you and maybe some others.

 

[nick338]

Lots of truths in this thread...based on their barrels...not yours. At 1000 yd line here at Quantico, 308's are on life support for precision shooting (unless you are shooting big bullseye CMP /NRA targets with large score rings). 168's stay at 600 yd line, they flounder for accuracy beyond that distance. Some can do 168's barely at 800 yd line but its basket ball size groups or larger. 175's are the ticket as are 185's at 1000 yds with 308 but those with 24" barrels suck swamp water compared to those with 26" barrels for accuracy.

Berger / Lapua bullets fly better...they just do but production grade Hornady, Sierra and some Noslers will be just fine if you do load development properly.

Since I shoot production grade bullets, I have found two things to tighten my groups significantly. Now this is a PITA and will turn some of you off but I buy my bullets in 1000 rd lots. In winter it takes me two 3 hour sessions to weigh and cull bullets so that I can load each box with bullets of same weight. Once culled, the benefit brings accuracy on the Berger bullet level of performance...yes I've used Bergers and compared results and the culling of bullets pays off for me.

Barrels tell the story: In this thread there is reference to the Navy Load and then someone nuanced any gas rifle load won't hold water for 1000 yds. Well...beyond my ability to read clouds and fog, the Mk 316 Mod "O" load of IMR 4064 at 41.745 grains pushing a 175 gr SMK is a phenomena. I loaded these up for my M14 specifically for 800 /1000 yd work and its bloody accurate..but i was take aback...its one of the most accurate loads out of my 308 Tikka bolt rifle ever. Its not a max loading, its FPS is not rolling hot like some of my other hand loads ( MOA /SUB MOA at 1000 yds) but this Navy load is just accurate at 1000 yds from my Tikka.

Yes , I have a scale that measures minutely to 41.745 grains but if I did not, I'd use 42 grains and bet results be the same.

I do anneal cases every time they're fired. I always weigh charges and on average, my primer pockets get loose long before 5x hand loads. I toss brass after 4x hand loads if used in my M14...loose primer pockets kill brass life here. The cases themselves would last longer ..far longer if I was not a 1000 yd shooter all the time.

Couldn't help bringing back a 4 year old thread for the text highlighted in red. It came up during a search related to 185 Juggernauts and reading it has me scratching my head.

I've shot 168 AMAX's out of an 18.5" M1A at 1000 yards, obviously not match winning accuracy but good enough for what it was, and I'm looking at possibly having TAC OPS build me a rifle to shoot out to 1K.

I have no interest in a barrel length of 26" and 24" is the absolute max I will go on this, and the logic of the highlighted statement is not making sense to me. There's that much of an accuracy difference between 40-50 fps, especially when both bullets are still supersonic?

 

[riverside jeep]

My RPR 20" .308 just doesn't seem to like 1000 yards, 5/8 groups at 100 yards with both 168 smk and 175 tmk with Varget. I shoot the 168's out to 600 and find very good accuracy ( for me!) . When I go to the longer range area I shoot the 175's and they do excellent on the 700 and the 800. I don't have a 900 yard target but when I go to the 1000 yard its all over the place. At the 7-800 yard targets I'm 1 m.o.a. , the 1000 it's 30 m.o.a. WTF. I just picked up a 300 RUM 26" and loaded up the 175 tmk, getting 3250 fps. I'm thinking it may help my 1000 yard shooting. Yes I realise I should be shooting heavier out of that but I have a stack of 175's.

 

[straightshooter1]

My RPR 20" .308 just doesn't seem to like 1000 yards, 5/8 groups at 100 yards with both 168 smk and 175 tmk with Varget. I shoot the 168's out to 600 and find very good accuracy ( for me!) . When I go to the longer range area I shoot the 175's and they do excellent on the 700 and the 800. I don't have a 900 yard target but when I go to the 1000 yard its all over the place. At the 7-800 yard targets I'm 1 m.o.a. , the 1000 it's 30 m.o.a. WTF. I just picked up a 300 RUM 26" and loaded up the 175 tmk, getting 3250 fps. I'm thinking it may help my 1000 yard shooting. Yes I realise I should be shooting heavier out of that but I have a stack of 175's.

You might try the 169 SMK's or the 177 SMK's as they get out to 1000 nicely and they're easier to tune than the TMK's. . . ???

 

[nick338]

I'll second the 169 SMK, at least it's showing a lot of promise in early load development with a heavy Bartlein M1A and H4895. Not uncommon for 5 shot groups at 300 yards to come in around 1.5". Definitely need to take it to 600 and 1K before I get too excited, but I like what I'm seeing so far.

 

[riverside jeep]

You might try the 169 SMK's or the 177 SMK's as they get out to 1000 nicely and they're easier to tune than the TMK's. . . ???

Any idea what kind of velocity a guy needs with the 169 smk to get to 1000 ???

 

[memilanuk]

Any idea what kind of velocity a guy needs with the 169 smk to get to 1000 ???

You can use something like JBM Ballistics - or any other ballistics app - to play with the MV to see what you need to stay super-sonic - or above the trans-sonic region if you prefer - at distance.

 

[nick338]

Any idea what kind of velocity a guy needs with the 169 smk to get to 1000 ???

2550 fps is probably the minimum I would want to be at and I'm at sea level.

 

[straightshooter1]

Any idea what kind of velocity a guy needs with the 169 smk to get to 1000 ???

From the data I've collected with my .308 using 41.1 grs AR-Comp (COAL: 2.956), this is what I get in my Strelok ballistics app with an MV @ ~2589 fps (Density Altitude @ ~174 ft.):

 

[ubettcha]

If you want to get to 1k w/10twist shoot the flatliners or PVA or badlands. If you are stuck on using a cup/core bullet like the smk eld berger you need to make it go faster. Leverrevolution, cfe223, mr2000 will all give you more speed than varget IMR 4064, 4895 or RL15. I've pushed 195 TMK's in a 26" 308 to 2704fps. It's a safe in my rifle load but it is a warm one. In a shorter barrel with CFE223 you should see 2550 which will be still supersonic at 1k. Most shorter 308's get unstable even if the data claims it's still super sonic which is why they don't shoot well that far.
Frank did a video shooting the 160 warner bullet to 1600yds in a 20" if you're able to search it's out there

 

[nick338]

If you want to get to 1k w/10twist shoot the flatliners or PVA or badlands. If you are stuck on using a cup/core bullet like the smk eld berger you need to make it go faster. Leverrevolution, cfe223, mr2000 will all give you more speed than varget IMR 4064, 4895 or RL15. I've pushed 195 TMK's in a 26" 308 to 2704fps. It's a safe in my rifle load but it is a warm one. In a shorter barrel with CFE223 you should see 2550 which will be still supersonic at 1k. Most shorter 308's get unstable even if the data claims it's still super sonic which is why they don't shoot well that far.
Frank did a video shooting the 160 warner bullet to 1600yds in a 20" if you're able to search it's out there

I have to disagree. You're either stable or you're not, if the inputs are correct and the data supports supersonic speeds then there's no reason to believe they are unstable. What hurts accuracy is wind and mediocre BC bullets in .30 cal. Guys shooting 22" M1A's and iron sights at Camp Perry never talk about them not shooting well at 1K with the right bullet.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

The only way I've heard of people being successful with 185 Bergers is if using 2000MR powder in a bolt action.

 

[ubettcha]

I have to disagree. You're either stable or you're not, if the inputs are correct and the data supports supersonic speeds then there's no reason to believe they are unstable. What hurts accuracy is wind and mediocre BC bullets in .30 cal. Guys shooting 22" M1A's and iron sights at Camp Perry never talk about them not shooting well at 1K with the right bullet.

He doesn't have enough speed and is trans sonic with his current load. He either picks up 150+fps with a different powder or switches to a better bullet for the task. Not that long ago the 105-107 class of 6mm bullet was in the .500-.530 G1 area and were just pushed a bit faster for excellent results @1k in the 6mmbr. The 155 palma bullets are in the .5 class and they get there with the proper amount of speed.

 

[VegasKyle]

The only way I've heard of people being successful with 185 Bergers is if using 2000MR powder in a bolt action.

I’m about to find out how this combo works in a semi. I’ve got a bunch of Jugs that have been on my shelf for a couple years now. Picked up a few lbs of 2000MR locally just recently.

Not sure if I can get enough velocity to make the juice worth the squeeze. I’ll do the Pepsi challenge with my M118lr clone loads that have been stellar out of my 20” SCAR.

 

[nick338]

He doesn't have enough speed and is trans sonic with his current load. He either picks up 150+fps with a different powder or switches to a better bullet for the task. Not that long ago the 105-107 class of 6mm bullet was in the .500-.530 G1 area and were just pushed a bit faster for excellent results @1k in the 6mmbr. The 155 palma bullets are in the .5 class and they get there with the proper amount of speed.

I misread his post. The 168 SMK is worthless at 1K, but I thought he was shooting the 175 SMK, not the TMK. I had a problem with the 7mm 183 SMK at transonic speeds not being consistent, and the 175 TMK may exhibit similar difficulties being a secant ogive as well. It seems to take a tangent ogive, or hybrid to handle the transition better.

My velocity is 2600 with the 169 SMK and it will be at 1K this summer. We will see how it does.

 

[ubettcha]

I misread his post. The 168 SMK is worthless at 1K, but I thought he was shooting the 175 SMK, not the TMK. I had a problem with the 7mm 183 SMK at transonic speeds not being consistent, and the 175 TMK may exhibit similar difficulties being a secant ogive as well. It seems to take a tangent ogive, or hybrid to handle the transition better.

My velocity is 2600 with the 169 SMK and it will be at 1K this summer. We will see how it does.

I have so far shot he 169's to 650 and I'm .2 higher than my 175's. They so far don't shoot as tight as either the 168's or 175s but I have not done any ladders for speed/pressure or seating. I think once I take some time with them they will be different maybe have to go back to varget (Rl15 pull down mil powder now) idk.

 

[nick338]

I have so far shot he 169's to 650 and I'm .2 higher than my 175's. They so far don't shoot as tight as either the 168's or 175s but I have not done any ladders for speed/pressure or seating. I think once I take some time with them they will be different maybe have to go back to varget (Rl15 pull down mil powder now) idk.

I literally bought a box of 500 of them, ran it through QL with H4895 and picked a lower charge at an OBT for a 22" barrel and it put 5 within a 1/2" group at 100. I chalked it up to pure luck so I shot it again and got the same result. Ran the same charge out to 300 and it punched 2, 1.5", 5 shot groups in not ideal conditions. For an M1A, that's not too shabby. Hopefully it stays close to that out further.