Long Range 30 cal chamberings

[dukelog]

Evening,gents.

I'm the not-so-proudof a Savage 110 in 338 Lapua that won't shoot. Seriously. I've tried sierras, hornadys and bergers, and every powder that can be used from re-19 thru n-570. Alls I can get is a bit over an inch for 5 shots at 100 (the longest my local range has) So I'm gonna rebarrel the action. So I am looking for something in 30 cal, but fast.

I have looked all over the net for 300 Pegasus ammo, dies, brass,etc, but no dice; I can't evenget a call back from A-square about the ammo. Next, I looked at the 7.82 Warbird, but I see that their brass is iffy in quality.

Thatbrings me to the 30-378 WBY, which is readily available but I was hoping for something more exotic.

Is there something else in the 200 gr, 30 cal bullet in the 3300-3500 fps range that I have not explored? The 300 RUM isn't as fast as the Wby so I fired it as an option. Likewise, the 300 lapua is out for the same reason.

What else is there? Any suggestions are much appreciated.

 

[RobG]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

Only because I was just looking at it, how about .338 Edge? 250's can be pushed at 3100ish with H1000/Retumbo/R25. Gotta have better barrel life than a .30 cal going 3400, too.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

I wouldn't give up so quickly. This round is accurate as hell. It's not the cartridge combo. So, I don't know why you want to change cartridges, let alone calibers.

I don't mean to hurt your feelings there Dukelog, but if you can't make a .338 Lapua work, you damn sure ain't gonna make any of the wildcats you name work. Not to mention you are comparing Weatherby rounds, not known for their accuracy (specifically out of Weatherby rifles) to known accuracy rounds.

Even then, the problem with .30 cal is you may have a great selection of bullets, but not too many have a high BC based on bullet form. Most have a high BC based on bullet weight. Which helps but is not as good as bullet form.

Maybe you could give us some load diagnostics before asking us which barrel to change to.

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

I would look hard at the rifle to see why it does not shoot any better than it does before I walked way from the 338s altogether.

But if you choose to do so, then I guess I'm wondering what would drive the decision that a 300 Norma Magnum is not enough pop to give you what you want.

I completely understand the concept of "I want what I want," but even that is sometimes driven by a specific need. For example, I built a long barreled 338LM Improved a few years ago rather than a 338 Edge because I wanted to drive the 300 SMK to 2,900 fps (and most 338 edges were rated at 2,800 fps for accurate loads) for shooting steel in the desert near my house. It was just a number that I picked from a hat but it was my lowest acceptable number.

Good luck.

Jeffvn

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

The only range you have to shoot is 100yds. Am I reading that correctly? If so, then how do you know this gun will not shoot? My long range loads do not always perform well at 100yds, matter of fact it is common. I have no experience with the Lapua but I have been a 1000yd BR shooter, and I did stay at a Holiday Inn express last night. Until you shoot that thing beyond 300yds you don't know anything. I had a hell of a time with my recent 30-06 build because I wanted to keep testing loads at 100yds. When I went to 300yds all my troubles melted away. If you want it to perform at 100yds then try a lighter bullet and maybe a shade faster powder.

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only range you have to shoot is 100yds. Am I reading that correctly? If so, then how do you know this gun will not shoot? My long range loads do not always perform well at 100yds, matter of fact it is common. I have no experience with the Lapua but I have been a 1000yd BR shooter, and I did stay at a Holiday Inn express last night. Until you shoot that thing beyond 300yds you don't know anything. I had a hell of a time with my recent 30-06 build because I wanted to keep testing loads at 100yds. When I went to 300yds all my troubles melted away. If you want it to perform at 100yds then try a lighter bullet and maybe a shade faster powder. </div></div>

+1

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

If you have shot the 338 as much as you indicate without finding a load that works well--AND-- you still have a shoulder attached to your arm:

It is my considered opinion that the first thing you should try is a precision barrel in 338LM from one of the top 8-10 barrel makers, and have a top gunsmith do the work.

 

[cav has been]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

If the only range you have is 100 yds., what in the world do you want a 338LM for? Noise? I have found mine to shoot quite nicely from 400 yds. on out. 100-300, less than impressive. Before you start down the path with a 30 X 378 you might consider a few things; Weatherby brass is north of $3 each. It doesn't last very long. This caliber is not the easiest in the world to sort out. whether you like the barrel or not is of little matter cause you'll be screwing another on shortly. If it's any consolation 110-115 grains of 50bmg going off in that 30/378 Wby. does make a lot of noise. lots of luck in your endeavor.

 

[dukelog]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't give up so quickly. This round is accurate as hell. It's not the cartridge combo. So, I don't know why you want to change cartridges, let alone calibers.

I don't mean to hurt your feelings there Dukelog, but if you can't make a .338 Lapua work, you damn sure ain't gonna make any of the wildcats you name work. </div></div>

No offense taken. I have loaded the 338 LM before. Maybe 10 years ago in a Sako M995 with a sporter weight barrel and only like 24 inches long. It was a beast to shoot, but it wasa n accurate gun. Using lapua brass, VV N-165 and 250 Sierra BTSP, sub MOA was the norm for that rifle. I could go out to 300 yards at Range 15 at Ft Lewis, WA. I know I can make the cartridge shoot; I'm struggling in this rifle. Thats why I'm considering a new barrel.

As far as the local range, I have other places I will eventually be able to reach out. For example, I can hunt hogs up to 5-600 yards in a couple of places, and I have a couple of long range shooting facilities a bit overan hour from me, but I don't want to drive all the way out there with a gun that doesn't shoot.

I have some more loads worked up. If none of these shoot, Im gonna have to do something....

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dukelog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't give up so quickly. This round is accurate as hell. It's not the cartridge combo. So, I don't know why you want to change cartridges, let alone calibers.

I don't mean to hurt your feelings there Dukelog, but if you can't make a .338 Lapua work, you damn sure ain't gonna make any of the wildcats you name work. </div></div>

No offense taken. I have loaded the 338 LM before. Maybe 10 years ago in a Sako M995 with a sporter weight barrel and only like 24 inches long. It was a beast to shoot, but it wasa n accurate gun. Using lapua brass, VV N-165 and 250 Sierra BTSP, sub MOA was the norm for that rifle. I could go out to 300 yards at Range 15 at Ft Lewis, WA. I know I can make the cartridge shoot; I'm struggling in this rifle. Thats why I'm considering a new barrel.

As far as the local range, I have other places I will eventually be able to reach out. For example, I can hunt hogs up to 5-600 yards in a couple of places, and I have a couple of long range shooting facilities a bit overan hour from me, but I don't want to drive all the way out there with a gun that doesn't shoot.

I have some more loads worked up. If none of these shoot, Im gonna have to do something.... </div></div>

My home range is a bit over an hour away. Where I shoot long range nearly 2 hours away. Your logic simply does not make sense. You either didn't believe me or didn't hear me, or didn't want to hear me. UNTIL YOU SHOOT PAST 100yds , YOU WILL NOT KNOW IF THE LOAD, or the gun, SHOOTS. This applies to any of the wildcats and long range, magical 30 calibers as well. If you put a big long bullet in the damn thing, and it prints groups just over an inch(not WAY over an inch mind you), and the range is 100yds or god forbid less, then you haven't proven anything about that loads potential at long range. What were your standard deviations?

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

You really need to figure out your shooting needs. 500 - 600 yards does not require a 200 grain bullet at 3300 - 3500 fps.

Based on your needs, it sounds like a 308 would be just fine. Why burn through barrels and spend extra cash on long heavy bullets when it sounds like 90% of your shooting will be at 100 yards, 7% at 500 - 600, and 3% at 1,000?

What you are describing is great for ELR, but it sounds like you don't have access to anywhere that you could shoot 1,500+ yards.

I have seen a rash of these lately... people buying 338LM to shoot at 100 - 300 yards. It has a lot to do with not honestly assessing shooting needs.

You go to these hunting forums and everybody recommends 300 WM and 300 RUM. Yes, they will take out almost anything, but they wear on your shoulder, wear on your barrel, and wear on your wallet. For a hunter that shoots fewer than 50 rounds a year and does it with minimal accuracy, that makes sense. When you get that shot to connect, you want to it to damage. For someone interested in getting into precision shooting, those are horrible calibers.

If you are unsure about what you want to do, 30-06 is a great round. Barrel life is long, it gets to 1,200 yds easily, and is an accurate and efficient cartridge. Take the money you save on ammo and buy a good range finder and you could take down most animals out to 800 or so.

 

[dukelog]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

No. I see what you're saying. I guess part of my problem is that the 250 Sierra BTs easily stabilized in a 10 twist barrel in the Sako. The Savage I'm shooting now uses a 9 twist, and the long bullets I'm shooting now probably don't really sleep until 100 yards or so. I'll find a couple of loads that look promising and shoot farther before I give up.

As far as hunting, I have guns for that. I WANT to shoot pigs with this 338, I don't HAVE to. My trusty 375 H&H will do, or my beloved 45-70, or even my dinky 223. Then there's the 35 Whelen, which will handle it all on this continent. Or the 300 and 257 WBYs, which will kill all. But I want to use this 338 rifle.

I am thinking of putting together a quality 308 for target work, and yes, barrel life, But I am a fan of performance. Economy of barrel life doesn't matter too much to me because I don't get to shoot as much as I once did. It'll take me years to shoot out the throats of my high intensity rifles simply because I don't get to shoot too much.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

Take a variety of loads and make the drive to the longer range. Your questions will get answered very quickly.

I have a range that is 1/2 hour away and is only 100 yards. I usually make the hour and fifteen minute drive to the range with the ability to shoot 1K, even if I just shoot 100 yards. That way I always have the option if I desire...

 

[toddcdozer]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

Uhhhh have you tried making sure the gun will shoot? You are dealing with a known performer(bullets, case and gun). If it isnt working well maybe there is a problem. I would check scope bedding etc before I threw away a known performance combo. The route you are contemplating is much more problematic than a 338 lm. You are throwing away the best brass in the business along with a rifle platform that is regarded as being very accurate out of the box. I would look into making what you have work first. Savages are stooooopid easy to work on at home. I would check bedding,recoil lug,receiver face etc (all of which is easy at home) before I gave up.I have found most savages will tighten way up with a thorough going thru. Good luck.

 

[cav has been]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

If you find that rifle will not shoot it's not the end of the world. You can screw a new barrel on your self. A pre-fit match grade Shillen or Benchmark will certainly bring it around plus clean up in a fraction of the time of the factory barrel. You have already spent the $$ for bullets, brass and dies for the LM which makes sticking with it a lot more practical money wise. Just in passing, have you looked carefully at the riflings at the crown? The slightest ding there is going to give you grief. best of luck

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Long Range 30 cal chamberings

It sounds like you have a lemon of a barrel. I would suggest rebarrel to 338 LM again and try it out. Lot's of great barrels to chose from these days - Bartlein, Broughton, Kreiger, Hart, Rock, Brux, Benchmark, Douglas, Obermeyer (see bugholes.com), etc. etc. etc. The best part? You can find sites where almost any of them are immediately available! Can't beat it.