Hunting & Fishing Long Range Quick Shot help

[jsthntn247]

The place I hunt whitetails is a big crp field. The crp trees and grass is about 7 foot high so I hunt tripods and ground blinds set up on roads that are about 30 feet wide. The blinds are mostly set where you can shoot 500 yards in either direction down the road. By the time a buck enters the road, you only have about 2 seconds to judge him and make a shot. I have a 300 WM and am shooting the 208 Amaxes at 2900 fps. My question is what distance should I zero my rifle to be most effective since I don't have time to range the deer and make adjustments to my turrets. I missed a huge buck Sunday afternoon by shooting under him and killed a nice one the next day. The deer I killed was at 400 yards and I just spun the turrets real quick without even looking and almost missed him high because I spun it too much. My zero now is set for 200 yards. My scope is a Vortex Viper 5-15x44 with a mil dot reticle and was thinking that I could use the reticle for hold over some how. What would you do in this circumstance.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

Have you gone to the Vortex website and done your scope calculations?

http://www.vortexoptics.com/content/lrbc

Plug in your info and it should tell you what your drops are at different ranges.

I have a couple Vortex scopes, the 4-16x50 Viper HS on two different rifles with the BDC reticle, and it is pretty darn close to what the program says it should be.

You can also try http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi . It won't give you what your dots are, but it will help you see what your bullet is doing at different distances.

Or get a range finder at least, and know your bullet drop charts.

 

[knockemdown]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

IMHO, long range hunting & quick shots are not compatable.
If you don't have time to get a verified range on a game animal, the answer to what I would do is:

HOLD FIRE

Taking an animal at distance affords a hunter the time to get good information to make a high percentage shot. So, take that time and use it to your advantage. Don't try to 'shoot from the hip', especially past your rifle's point blank range...

Get a good range on the animal.
Consult your proven data.
Dial your ele. correction
Verify range again.
Call the wind & note needed holdover.
Settle down & wait for wind condition to be consistent and for animal to be broadside.
Remember NPA, breathing, etc. and squeeze one off.

If critter moves during your checklist, start all over again, from the top!

Flying through any of that mental checklist under a time constraint is not a good idea. You owe it to the animal, and to yourself to make a solid 1st shot, which is all the more difficult if your trying to rush it. If you're feeling pressured, then get off the rifle and take a breather...

That's what I'd do. Good luck & be safe!

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

Well I don't have my ballistic app with me currently but my initial thought is that if you are shooting a 300WM and your 208 Amax is traveling at 2900 fps, and you are dialed in at 200 YDS.................up to 500 YDS you won't have to adjust period. I can't imagine your POI will change enough to matter providing you POA is in the boiler room in the first place. An inch or even two on a whitetail with the terminal effects of a 300WM won't affect much, providing your aim is on in the first place.

 

[jsthntn247]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

I have a range finder, but there is no time to put my ear plugs in (loud ass muzzlebrake), get gun up on sticks, bipod, or rail of tripod, look the antlers over to make sure he is a shooter, and range the deer, dope the scope, and make the shot. I literally have 3 seconds or less to do this. I even considered an air horn to get them to stop. They are up cruising right now looking for does hard. I thought about walking with a drag rag down the road with doe in heat. I'm definitely going to put yardage flags in the road. One at 300 and one at 400. Zero at 300, and from 375 to 450 use the first mil dot. I will just have to use the main cross hair during low light periods when I can't use 15x.

 

[aron]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EXTREMEPREJUDICE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I don't have my ballistic app with me currently but my initial thought is that if you are shooting a 300WM and your 208 Amax is traveling at 2900 fps, and you are dialed in at 200 YDS.................up to 500 YDS you won't have to adjust period. I can't imagine your POI will change enough to matter providing you POA is in the boiler room in the first place. An inch or even two on a whitetail with the terminal effects of a 300WM won't affect much, providing your aim is on in the first place. </div></div>

I disagree with this. 200yd zero and not adjusting for 500yds? You just missed your mark.

Without running numbers I bet your hitting about 36" low...

As previously said, long range and quick shots don't go together god. I would step off distances on the road and put a marker out every hundred yds or so and learn your dope to use the mil dot scope for holdover.

 

[Exo]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

strelok, download the app, it has a nice little picture of your reticle and each mil dot is assigned a number (yardage). learn your holdover's and gun it

 

[aron]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

For hunting and my 260 with A 100yd zero, I can use holdovers fairly easy. My 300yd drop is very close to 1 mil, 400yd is 2 mil, 500yd is 3mil. I would run your numbers, I bet a 300wm would be a little better but still might have something for quicker holds for your 500 and less

That's the easy part, it's the wind that is a bitch

 

[jayd4wg]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

If you hunt there often place range indicators downrange. Put your known hold over in your scope cap or range/dope card on stock. Problem solved.

 

[mdesign]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: knockemdown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMHO, long range hunting & quick shots are not compatable.
If you don't have time to get a verified range on a game animal, the answer to what I would do is:

HOLD FIRE

Taking an animal at distance affords a hunter the time to get good information to make a high percentage shot. So, take that time and use it to your advantage. Don't try to 'shoot from the hip', especially past your rifle's point blank range...

Get a good range on the animal.
Consult your proven data.
Dial your ele. correction
Verify range again.
Call the wind & note needed holdover.
Settle down & wait for wind condition to be consistent and for animal to be broadside.
Remember NPA, breathing, etc. and squeeze one off.

If critter moves during your checklist, start all over again, from the top!

Flying through any of that mental checklist under a time constraint is not a good idea. You owe it to the animal, and to yourself to make a solid 1st shot, which is all the more difficult if your trying to rush it. If you're feeling pressured, then get off the rifle and take a breather...

That's what I'd do. Good luck & be safe! </div></div>

^^ this...and in the off season practice doing it a lot at unknown distances. Over time, you get much better at it and learn to know your limitations so that you don't make poor decisions like shooting quickly at an animal that is a further away then your abilities allow.

If you know the shot is going to be long, build your basic setup accordingly so your supports are in place and all that is need is to range, adjust and take the shot. Much easier said than done, that's why off season practice is so valuable.

 

[jsthntn247]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: knockemdown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMHO, long range hunting & quick shots are not compatable.
If you don't have time to get a verified range on a game animal, the answer to what I would do is:

HOLD FIRE

Taking an animal at distance affords a hunter the time to get good information to make a high percentage shot. So, take that time and use it to your advantage. Don't try to 'shoot from the hip', especially past your rifle's point blank range...

Get a good range on the animal.
Consult your proven data.
Dial your ele. correction
Verify range again.
Call the wind & note needed holdover.
Settle down & wait for wind condition to be consistent and for animal to be broadside.
Remember NPA, breathing, etc. and squeeze one off.

If critter moves during your checklist, start all over again, from the top!

Flying through any of that mental checklist under a time constraint is not a good idea. You owe it to the animal, and to yourself to make a solid 1st shot, which is all the more difficult if your trying to rush it. If you're feeling pressured, then get off the rifle and take a breather...

That's what I'd do. Good luck & be safe! </div></div>

^^ this...and in the off season practice doing it a lot at unknown distances. Over time, you get much better at it and learn to know your limitations so that you don't make poor decisions like shooting quickly at an animal that is a further away then your abilities allow.

If you know the shot is going to be long, build your basic setup accordingly so your supports are in place and all that is need is to range, adjust and take the shot. Much easier said than done, that's why off season practice is so valuable. </div></div>

Also add... if you got time to set up a blind. You got time to carry a LRF and check distances to objects in your area so you've got an idea of the distance.

Plus 500yds isn't that far...your rifle should be zeroed and dopes accounted for long before you ever hit the field.

Definitely will be miss aiming dead on from a 100yd zero. Run your data and confirm it. Then run a few hypethetical temps and see how much that let alone air pressure affects your round. It may very well be little change if any.

If you don't got time for this...you don't got time to be shooting those kinds of distances on game. </div></div>

I've put atleast 500 rounds through this gun this year shooting 10" gongs out to 900 (more than that through my other guns), not exactly unprepaired to shoot deer at 500. I picked the 10" circular targets because they are the size of deer vitals. I asked what was the best distance to leave my scope set on to make the best of my opportunity. I am on a "special" hunt at this place and only get to hunt here about two times in a 3 year period.

 

[shamrockcattleco]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

2 things that might help.

1. place some sort of marker on the road to get an approximate distance to the deer. Every 100yds throw up a different color flag. I do the same thing at my tree stands to bow hunt so i dont have to make the extra movement to range them.

2. Never underestimate the power of a quick doe bleat. Might give you the extra time you are looking for.

 

[blksno]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

Learn how to range on the fly with your reticle.

Count to TWO in your head, and then rethink if you've got time to settle behind a rifle for a stable shot. MOST people, I would venture to say NO ONE, is going to identify a deer, settle behind a rifle and crack off a shot in that amount of time.
That leads me to believe you're taking it off hand or at most, from a seated rest.

Thinking your zero range has anything to do with it is just plain dumb. Giving yourself 2 seconds to kill anything at 500 yds is more so.

If you've dumped 500 rounds down range already, you should have spent it taking shots that would have been likely to encounter in the field.

Next year, set up 2 gongs at an UNKNOWN distance somewhere between 350 and 550 and see if you can shoot them BOTH in less than 5 seconds. Change distances and repeat.
Practicing stable shots at 900 was a waste of your time if all you're trying to do is take rushed shots at 500.

 

[1badmopar]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

I plugged in the ballistics. A 30 cal 208 gr Amx traveling at 2900 at the muzzle, zero at 200, will drop 37.09" at 500. If you sighted +2.59" at 100 (dead on at 250), you would be +2.11" at 200, -3.41" at 300, -14.53" at 400, and -31.86 at 500. On a deer sized target you could hold dead on and pull the trigger out to 300 yards and hit the plate sized kill zone.

Personally, I would leave it at 200 yard zero, and hang markers at 300, 400, 500 and use the markers to judge the shot. In most deer hunting situations you do not have time to dial dope. Just know your distance and place the shot. +1.54@100, 0@200, -6.55@300, -18.72@400, and -37.09@500. Your bullet still carries 2,319 energy at 500 yards, so any hit in the vitals will be deadly. Do not worry about threading the needle, just hit the 12" plate.

 

[Weaselthis]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
I zero my hunting rifles at 250. I've been using a variation of 1ft,2ft,4ft holdovers for years. Served me well on all types of game. Ya do have to have an estimation of the body size. Below is the JBM stats for 208 Amax @ 2900 and a 250 zero. You say you're gonna hang flags. Good idea. Any deer out to about 350 is "meat". 400 hold a little daylite on top of the back. 500yds. maybe top of head depending on deer size in your area. You get the idea. I know this will drive most members of this forum nuts as it's not real "precision" but when the meat is on the line and the clock is ticking, ya gotta have some system to put the bullet on the bone. This has worked for me for a very long time. Good luck w/ whatever you decide.

(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2905.0 2.602 3896.9 0.000 0.0 ***
100 2.6 2.5 0.5 0.5 2757.9 2.470 3512.2 0.106 18.7 17.8
200 2.1 1.0 2.0 0.9 2615.5 2.343 3159.0 0.218 38.3 18.3
300 -3.5 -1.1 4.5 1.4 2477.7 2.219 2834.7 0.336 59.1 18.8
400 -14.7 -3.5 8.3 2.0 2344.0 2.099 2537.1 0.460 81.0 19.3
500 -32.3 -6.2 13.3 2.5 2214.4 1.983 2264.3 0.592 104.1 19.9

 

[mt Al]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Exo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">strelok, download the app, it has a nice little picture of your reticle and each mil dot is assigned a number (yardage). learn your holdover's and gun it </div></div>

^^ For your app, this, period. Pre-range known landmarks in your lane and don't waste time dialing crap for those ranges. Ranging and dialing knobs isn't compatible with rapid, long range. Nerves and "hurry up" syndrome...yuck. There are infinity scopes, like yours, that don't need any dialing to put a critter on the ground.

 

[MikeeBooshay]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

Ya'll aren't doing a lot of hunting at longer ranges.... elevation is math - windage is where you hit or miss. I'll also place money on how many guys that don't REGULARLY shoot movers, can hit a deer open for 3 seconds. I think it's a lot less than 30%.

We keep stats on shots at our place - with fairly well trained shooters, on game. Breaks down about like this ( from memory, not looking it up now )

100 yards - 90%
100 - 200 yards - 80%
200 - 300 yards - not sure of figure, but less than 80%
300 - 400 yards - 60%.

FWIW, these figures are very close to .mil shooters at 400 yard UKD targets. Add in the moving with 3 second window - tough shot.

Figure out how to get closer, my man. You are too far out for ethical shooting, on that target, at that range, under those conditions.

The rest of the advice here is sound - the flags, the come-ups on the scope cap etc..... but the actual solving of the problem, still lacks the practical aspects.

Not trying to be a prick about this, but this is something we do every day/week. My stand in TX overlooks 1000 yards in every direction, with several feeders in that circle. I shot deer for years in MS and AL on pipeline ROW, and am familiar with the problem. Getting closer was a lot better than any other option. Getting off the ROW was another thing, if I could figure out where the deer crossed, most of the time, when pursued by dogs, the deer would pause before crossing. That was a lot better shot than the bound across the ROW. Getting out of the blind and in the woods, was key to getting on these critters.

Not small deer either:

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Long Range Quick Shot help

If I were taking a rapid shot on a well known field, I'd do some extra homework. I'd be working the math in advance using a predetermined firing position as a start point.

I would erect simple signs at the verified specific interval distances depicting the Mil holdover values for that given distance.

That is about as much as I think you could do to speed up the process. Even with that, two seconds I probably not enough time for me to ensure my getting off a good shot.

Greg