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Rifle Scopes Long Range Scope that can transition to short range?
- Thread starter 1911addict42
- Start date
Wouldn’t a subsonic hollow point in 300 blackout, like Hornady 190, lose most of its energy after hitting a wall? I thought it was designed for these purposes.
Maybe I don’t know what I don’t know, but I don’t understand why it’s strange. The SCAR was designed for close and long range- the Vortex Razor 1-10 looks like it was too. What’s strange about wanting a good all around rifle, cartridge and optic? As someone that doesn’t compete or hunt, I’d personally rather buy one excellent rifle that’s good at everything, rather than two rifles that’s great at only one thing, if it exists. Perhaps it doesn’t.That’s just me.
have a 5x50x60 30mm sightron s3's that say they can be used as close as 10 yards out to what ever you can hit a target at personally I have never shot at anything closer than 82 feet or 25m that was at an indoor range on a 22lr and only as far as 1k with a 224 on steel . Good luck with what ever you get may it work the way you want it to .
I did not like it either. Although I was shooting it at an indoor range, with a mask on. Felt my teeth rattling from that noise.
It’s a lot easier to shoot a bolt gun than an auto precisely. I bought a .308 AR-10 after my 6.5 creed bolt gun for different uses like hunting and as a fighting rifle. Hitting a mini IPSC at 700 yards is pretty straightforward but even a 5mph wind gives a legit amount of hold.
I’d keep the AR shooting within range of what a .308 would do. Use a bolt gun to go farther so you aren’t adding complications. Going 1,000 isn’t particularly difficult but it is certainly not close to a starting achievement of factors aren’t perfect.
I’d keep the AR shooting within range of what a .308 would do. Use a bolt gun to go farther so you aren’t adding complications. Going 1,000 isn’t particularly difficult but it is certainly not close to a starting achievement of factors aren’t perfect.
I like the “bayonet for indoors” suggestion a few posts above.
Slap on a Quigley tang sight for those 1000yd hits, who needs a scope, unless it’s a Quigley Ford.
Slap on a Quigley tang sight for those 1000yd hits, who needs a scope, unless it’s a Quigley Ford.
USO 3.8x17 TPAL is still a great short range to long range scope.
Not recommended for fighting in a basement....
Sirhr
Not recommended for fighting in a basement....
Sirhr
You can trace that decision back to supply chain realities dating back to WWII. In a different universe, we'd have a single infantry caliber in 7mm or thereabouts. In our current reality, the guns are built to chamber the millions of rounds already in existence.
Everything happens for a reason (for better or worse) and there are oceans of compromise happening all along the way. Take note that your rifle is offered in 3 alternate chamberings in the 6mm - 6.5 mm range - Which perform at the expense of barrel life (countered by the fact that barrels are easy enough to replace on your platform). The chambering you chose is readily available in case quantities and bit better at ripping through obstacles (Battle rifle role) and you would probably have a great time shooting against other .308's in competition. It's here to stay for a long time.
Oh yes, you need an optic for that rifle, which takes us right back to your original question. "Is there anything that may give me the ability to hit 1,000 yards, but then also easily transition to close range if necessary?" I see the balance of your question. It's not silly. In fact, the relevance of it incites a bit of passion.
The answer is yes, here are 3 approaches.
1. Priority on close and medium range - Try to get your hands on one of the new crop of LPVO's ( Gen III razor will come up a lot) and you'll have the ability to hit silhouette size targets at 1,000 yards, provided the targets are large and visible enough. Understand it was not designed to do this as it's primary function but, the industry has done a fantastic job with LPVO's lately. They serve most admirably in the close to medium range role, but the 6, 8 and 10x top ends and recent improvements in reticles make them amazingly useful at distance. Your rifle suggests an emphasis on medium range capability against targets that are harder to knock down, which Is certainly served by 8-10 power. Understandably, one needs to consider the SHTF scenario where it's ability to chew through cars and cinderblock will leave those wielding .22 caliber green with envy. In which case, you'll probably be set at 1x most of the time and be glad you chose an LPVO.
Realistically, you'll find yourself only throwing it in the truck when you have a chance to shoot 100+ yards. On such an occasion, you may have a chance to shoot a friends precision rifle scoped with higher mag and realize that the visual feedback from the impacts makes it easier to call corrections., You might even notice the trace of the bullet and realize the effect of wind and bullet stability on the trajectory. You may enjoy the more comfortable eye box, the benefit of parallax adjustment and nifty turrets that make shooting easier, less fatiguing and more precise. Spend more than 10 minutes looking through an LPVO at high mag and you'll see why it's intended as a temporary measure. Still, it's a huge advantage over a red dot or iron sights past 100 and checks the box for basic capability to 1,000.
2. 2 optics on the same rifle (You did say anything) - Get an optic with 15-20 power on the top end (plenty of good choices there) then add a red dot or offset irons for close work. It's adds more weight and complexity to an already heavy platform, but you'll have the tools you need to get the job done. The RDS actually helps quite a bit in transitioning to targets without having to go to lower mag on the scope. This is particularly helpful when finding low contrast targets out in the desert. You will see guys running these setups sporting bipods and adjustable cheekpieces as they fall more into the semiautomatic precision rifle category. Setting this up is more expensive and frustrating as you have to choose 2 optics and associated mounts that will work together.
3. Keep praying and waiting until SOMEBODY, FINALLY builds a tier 1 2-12x42 with excellent glass, wide FOV, parallax adjust, low profile locking turrets and well thought out, daylight bright illuminated FFP tree reticle, without being too heavy to mount on an AR platform. There seems to be some sort of industry rule preventing it's proper execution and that's why everybody gets confused and angry when you ask questions about a "do all" optic. Oh yes, they make scopes that come close, but they NEVER let us have it all. Until that day arrives, you can make due with viper PST 2-10, Burris XTR II or NF compact 2.5-10. They are not ideal, but they provide better ability to 1,000 than LPVO's and are only a little slower at ranges from 7-100 yds on larger targets. Anything inside 7 yards is simply point shooting anyway. Your weapon light will work as a course aiming device if things go that far south.
Also, check out Ilya Koshkin's videos on youtube .
You can also check out his posts on here on the hide. He's an optical engineer and a shooter, so he's got a valuable perspective on the scopes and why to choose them.
The best advice I can give is to view the system from the projectile's ability first, then choose the sighting system that is most appropriate for that capability. The rifle is actually just a launch platform to serve the first 2 choices. If you choose a rifle and seek to flex it outside of it's primary use, things WILL get wonky on you. You'll be most satisfied with equipment specialized for specific requirements.
Whatever you do, don't ask which angular format you should choose for your reticle.. It's a powderkeg!
We all know that. For some, chasing every last bit of BC or range isn't the main priority.
The package you’re looking at is fine, the 1-10 razor will work great for that role, the rifle will work reliably and be plenty of fun for a lot of shooting disciplines and the .308 is adequate for pretty much everything you want to do.
home defense is a strange use for a .308 because the power that case is capable of delivering is excessive for almost all home defense scenarios, as I stated above, the terminal performance with a 225 gr. .308 or .300 blk if they are both subsonic but .308 is not as readily available in subs as blackout Ammo is, and as butte mentions, the .308 may not cycle Subs reliably (for some reason I thought we had gone way off topic and were talking about an HD situation with a bolt gun where it wouldn’t matter).The SCAR was meant to work up close for people who would be potentially clearing houses while operating in a DM role in a war, the implications of collateral damage in that situation are pretty different than they would be in your own home with your children or unsuspecting neighbors.
. A semi auto .308 at 25-1000 yards is plenty of fun and very useful For a lot of different jobs but I personally wouldn’t want all the weight associated with it or the excessive power and blast Indoors, pistol rounds are loud enough inside and they have less than 1/4 the case capacity and lower pressure limits.
Without reading all the comments on here, here is my 2c, and its only worth 1/2 that 
As the OP states, this current 308 he’s got is already “heavy”. ANY scope he puts on is only going to add to that weight.
“Kinda heavy” takes this rifle out of the home defense category.
I have no rifles that I consider 1000+ range guns that I would want to use as a home defense rifle. 2 totally different uses.
It’d be like wanting a car that runs 6 secs in the 1/4 mile, but also wanting it to get 40mpg. Can’t have both.
In life and death situation, anything will work sure, but I’d rather have a dedicated home defense option that is fast, easy and won’t wear me out to chase targets.
As the OP states, this current 308 he’s got is already “heavy”. ANY scope he puts on is only going to add to that weight.
“Kinda heavy” takes this rifle out of the home defense category.
I have no rifles that I consider 1000+ range guns that I would want to use as a home defense rifle. 2 totally different uses.
It’d be like wanting a car that runs 6 secs in the 1/4 mile, but also wanting it to get 40mpg. Can’t have both.
In life and death situation, anything will work sure, but I’d rather have a dedicated home defense option that is fast, easy and won’t wear me out to chase targets.
That’s the consensus ^
lol at chasing targets
. Remember kids, it’s home defense, not home offense.
lol at chasing targets
. Remember kids, it’s home defense, not home offense.
For 1,000-yds AND home defense, it has to be the Gen-III Razor 1-10x. I've made plenty of hits at 1k with a fixed 10x Unertl back in the day.
Electric/hybrid possibly get you something like this.
Just to clarify , because I’ve gotten some similar responses:Without reading all the comments on here, here is my 2c, and its only worth 1/2 that
As the OP states, this current 308 he’s got is already “heavy”. ANY scope he puts on is only going to add to that weight.
“Kinda heavy” takes this rifle out of the home defense category.
I have no rifles that I consider 1000+ range guns that I would want to use as a home defense rifle. 2 totally different uses.
It’d be like wanting a car that runs 6 secs in the 1/4 mile, but also wanting it to get 40mpg. Can’t have both.
In life and death situation, anything will work sure, but I’d rather have a dedicated home defense option that is fast, easy and won’t wear me out to chase targets.
I asked about CQB, not home defense. Perhaps I wasn’t clear about that. I’m aware of the problems with using a .308 in my house, and it’s why I have a subsonic 300 blackout setup.
TAVOR 7, POF Revolution and SCAR 17s are pretty good examples of what I am referring to... a Bullpup .308 is a CQB rifle. So the question was what is an appropriate optic for rifles like that.
and the consensus is either a high quality 1-10x or a red/dot iron sights offset with a high mag scope. Makes sense.
If someone ever comes out with a quality 1-12 LVPO that would make me very happy
I shot a softball size group out to 800 meters or 920 yards using an M-14 NM rifle with NM sights. An optic device may just help identify the object of your disaffection but it won't do the job any better to remove the problem. I found that having a good rifle like my CZ-550 varmint in .308 and a 168 grain hollow point boat tail match grade bullet loaded with 44 grains of Varget power may produce the tightest groups. (One Hole) MOA! A thermal or night vision device works well out to around 500 meters for offensive missions that are well planed. A 3 inch 12 gauge riot gun may help when to get caught with your pants down?
I don't like surprises so I tend to avoid them by keeping a low profile and observe potential dangers. If you insist on joining the fray that seems imminent, It may help to first read the "What-IF" books such as: Holding Their Own, Enemies Foreign and Domestic, Lights Out, One Second After, Unintended Consequences, and Patriots. It won't make you a warrior prince, but it may open your eyes as to how the game is best played?
1911addict, you'd just have to see the difference in real life of a 308 using 175's and a 6.5 Creed with 147's at the ""farther distances"" when it comes to how far out you have to aim with the 308.
In field conditions without flags, on small-ish steel targets, in fluctuating winds, the word I would like to use is "HARD", it is hard to hit that steel with a 308.
In those same conditions with the 6.5 it's not hard to hit the same steel.
Why you ask??? It's because there's almost half the wind drift using the 6.5.
A field match I used to go to had very skilled world class instructors which called wind for a living, they both used 175gr 7.62 factory ammo. They would finish about 3/4 the way up the score sheet because of their extreme skill. Most others with 308's would place in the lower half. I felt sorry for newbs showing up with their 308's, some didn't even hit one target so it wasn't an easy course.
Most of the rest of us, varying in ability levels, would fill the upper half of the score sheet, we used 6mm, 6.5, 7mm, and big 30's.
One newb comes to mind that had zero'd the course, he came back a month later with a 260R and hit 12 targets of the 40 shot course.
You'd have to see the actual difference for it to sink in.
In field conditions without flags, on small-ish steel targets, in fluctuating winds, the word I would like to use is "HARD", it is hard to hit that steel with a 308.
In those same conditions with the 6.5 it's not hard to hit the same steel.
Why you ask??? It's because there's almost half the wind drift using the 6.5.
A field match I used to go to had very skilled world class instructors which called wind for a living, they both used 175gr 7.62 factory ammo. They would finish about 3/4 the way up the score sheet because of their extreme skill. Most others with 308's would place in the lower half. I felt sorry for newbs showing up with their 308's, some didn't even hit one target so it wasn't an easy course.
Most of the rest of us, varying in ability levels, would fill the upper half of the score sheet, we used 6mm, 6.5, 7mm, and big 30's.
One newb comes to mind that had zero'd the course, he came back a month later with a 260R and hit 12 targets of the 40 shot course.
You'd have to see the actual difference for it to sink in.
LOL, I knew some uneducated person would make this comparison! You obviously do not know much about what it takes to make a 6 second car
@Killswitch Engage has a RzR 1-10x. I think he's killed stuff at distance with it....not sure if he's dispatched any bad guys at home yet though. Maybe he can chime in?
LOL, I knew some uneducated person would make this comparison! You obviously do not know much about what it takes to make a 6 second car
yep, 6 second 1/4 mile times are Pro-mod territory With 2500HP+and 2600 lb. 1/4 mile record For electrics at the moment is like 7.2 seconds. I think the lotus evija is like 2000 HP AND 3700 lb curb weight (batteries are heavy) so it’s probably mid to low 8 second, and costs $2.1 M. that’s a lot of money to get beat by some local boy with a built Camaro and a lot of boost.
No, but I have car buddies running 8s. Now I need to double check if it's 9s...LOL, I knew some uneducated person would make this comparison! You obviously do not know much about what it takes to make a 6 second car
Frankly, ICE is on its way out. And I say that as one of the last V8s.
in highschool, we had dumb dos terminals in computer class, but we also had a game called wdrag that was fun.
you could put in HP, tire width and tire diameter, and then it would race all the cars that were entered.
i destroyed everyone maxed HP, and 2" wide and 18' diameter tires.
after 1 second, i was way behind, barely moved.
after 2 seconds, i was still behind, but moving.
after 3 seconds, i had already crossed the finish line.
you could put in HP, tire width and tire diameter, and then it would race all the cars that were entered.
i destroyed everyone maxed HP, and 2" wide and 18' diameter tires.
after 1 second, i was way behind, barely moved.
after 2 seconds, i was still behind, but moving.
after 3 seconds, i had already crossed the finish line.
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