long range ( to me ) shooting question

[black_ump]

as i decide between 155 and 175 smk and work the load up iam currious to know a few things.

1. does one or 2 loads get you from your zero ( mine being 200 yds with my 308 ) to 1k yards or do you have several loads for every range 1,2,3,4 etc hundred yards ?

2. how do you know how many mil's to come up or clicks to make ?
my guess is every hundred yards you have a big white piece of paper with a dot in the center and you shoot at it see how many inches this way and that and log it so you know how many clicks to make ?

i would be vary happy to get my 308 out to 600 yards just not sure the proper way to do it

 

[lanwickum]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

pull the trigger.
KISS keep it simple stupid.

Just one load. Use a ballistic table for that load. It will get you close. Then dial in and log dope and conditions shoot in. Dope can change from day to day depnding on conditions. Write what you know, then what you think you know. A year latter it is good to keep these things seperate. Very much so when starting out.

 

[Chiller]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

get a load that works.

learn how to beat the game....then beat it to death....

 

[black_ump]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

well thats the thing. i want to shoot 110 sierra hp for under 200 yards on g-hogs

how ever iam not sure if i want 155 or 175 for long range, and iam not sure how to go about testing eaither.

the same as if testing at 100 yards i would imagen

 

[doc76251]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

Load development is the same if you are looking for pin point at 200 or pin point at 1K. Consistency of the load and accuracy on the target. Once you have that and a solid velocity you can punch your data into a ballistics program and get dope from 0 - 1K+.

It does help if your scope is calibrated and your velocity spreads are in the single digits to reach 1K.

FWIW heavier bullets when beginning cost you less in barrel life (and powder) while giving you some stability in the wind at long(er) ranges. I would run 175's/178's to start out with and as you gain knowledge and advance look at sending the speedies. Be advised the same argument can be made in reverse, go faster, smaller boolet, less time etc. etc. Remember barrel life when starting out, you will make more mistakes and need more rounds to learn.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Breeze260]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question


What are you going to do for the g-hogs that are over 200yds?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as i decide between 155 and 175 smk and work the load up iam currious to know a few things.

1. does one or 2 loads get you from your zero ( mine being 200 yds with my 308 ) to 1k yards or do you have several loads for every range 1,2,3,4 etc hundred yards ?

2. how do you know how many mil's to come up or clicks to make ?
my guess is every hundred yards you have a big white piece of paper with a dot in the center and you shoot at it see how many inches this way and that and log it so you know how many clicks to make ?

i would be vary happy to get my 308 out to 600 yards just not sure the proper way to do it </div></div>

I've got a SR load, a MR load, and a LR load. Now, having said that, I'd suggest you look at the big picture. You can paint this picture with a pen in a data/score book. You can record all useful information in your book, including zeros for every conceivable distance you may need to recall.

 

[DP425]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

Pick one load- you're shooting ground hogs, not deer or elk- with a .308... Virtually any round with a good body hit will kill it almost instantly.

Get a load for distance, get a ballistic calculator (exbal- ect) find out your velocity and plug the info in- print chart, shoot and log.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

A few considerations. First, there's more than one way to defur this feline.

You can take anything Charles says straight to the bank, it's purest gold. He speaks from significant experience.

Whether you choose to employ several loads or just one will depend at least in some part on the time available to prepare for the shot. The more time you have, the more opportunity you have to load your rifle to suit the specific shot.

Bullets, barrel lengths, and rifling twists often go hand-in-hand.

155's like slower twists (1:12"-1:15") and longer barrels to develop higher velocities, and the 175's will need at least 1:12" twist and could do quite OK with a 1:10" twist. They don't mind longer barrels either. Shorter barrels may also work, but velocity usually benefits from additional barrel length. Short barrels with slower twists are probabl going to faver the shorter, lighter bullets.

Both 155's and 175's can do the job, and will prbabbly have some basis for a preference that is grounded in barrel length.

Exceptions abound, but tendencies follow these basic principles.

Greg

 

[black_ump]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

hey guys thanks for the heads up, i guess ill get big sections of card board and start load development and see how many inches my load is off at the various ranges recording it all in my log book as i go.

scope calibration or do you mean sighted in ?

 

[cmh2007]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

i know to 600 yards my gun likes the 155 amax Hornady match load

 

[black_ump]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

thanks for the tip i will try the 155's and put them up agains the 175's

 

[lovdasnow]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

if you can shoot your final load load over a chrono you could just take your bullet info/BC and velocity(and a few other things) and run in through a ballistic calculator and it should give you info on your come ups that will be very close.

there are web based calculators that are free, and will do a fine job.

then take that info as your starting dope, and go out and shoot paper to confirm exactly where you are hitting. that could save you some frustration at longer ranges.

also, it's always a little more fun if you can shoot on a somewhat windless day.

good luck, and careful, it's addicting!

 

[mm509]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

I have a 20" FN and I was shooting the crap out of 165hpbt, then I chrono'ed this load and found I was only shooting 2451fps. I dont believe in chasing velocities but that was so slow I would go below transonic way short of the 1K mark. I decided to go 155 SMK and at muzzle I am at 2670fps, i can live with that, and still stay stable past 1k. When I first got my rifle I had some M118 sitting around and shot them, never chrono'ed but they did hit the same hole alot!! but I was scared to put them through the chrono fearing I would see around 2200fps. I love the 155 SMK.

 

[ajroyer]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

For the first question, I would say that shooting one round is easier to adjust for and learn what your doing at longer range. A heavier weight bullet is going to be less affected by the wind, but does your specific gun like that bullet better? I know that my AR15 likes bulk 55gr better than some 77gr that I bought. Either way, you will make different adjustments for each bullet at each distance. If I were in your shoes, I would use my favorite round to get data out to 1000. Then I would stockpile that ammo and have a blast practicing. Eventually, you can work up to another, heavier bullet and get a whole new set of data out to 1000 and spend more cash on a new stockpile.

As to the second question, try mil-dot.com They have all the info you need to use mil-dot and MOA to their max. There is also a practice program to test your knowledge. One of the biggest things that you will find, is the .308 and some other calibers have generic data cards (that you can buy for cheap) which will give you rough dope on calculating yardage, windage, and the "clicks" needed to make adjustments for a specific round. Most scopes are designed for the most common .308, so you have a head start. Make sure you know what your reticle and your knobs are set for. Some scopes have mil-dot reticles and MOA adjustments. Those manufacturers need to be severly lectured by someone.

I hope that this helps and doesn't just preach to the choir.

 

[devildogccie]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

I tend to prefer picking one load for a given rifle and sticking with it. So I'd suggest you get a load that meets all of your shooting needs.

As to your question on bullet size in the load, it will be a matter of twist rate first and distance second. If you have a 308 with a 10" twist, it will prefer 175s over the 168s; the faster twist will tend to scatter the lighter bullets more. If you have a 12" twist, it may prefer 150 or 168s.

Second, as to how you know what the trajectory is for a given distance, and the resulting changes to make to your scope, get some good ballistics software. Today's technology is amazing and very affordable. I could have only dreamed about this stuff when I was in the Marine Corps in the 80s.

All ballistics software will give you velocity, kinetic energy, flight time, and effect of gravity (drop) at virtually any given distance. An overall good program I use is called "Shoot Ballistics" from Pinsoft..the current version is 3.2 so you can google that. It's got a very good graphical interface. However, it only allows for 3:00 or 9:00 wind and it doesn't compensate for shooting angle (up or down).

A second program from ballisticsiumulator.com isn't as graphical but is very good, and adjusts for shooting angle. However, wind angle is always 3:00 or 9:00 (despite the fact that it allows you to put in other values).

The best program that I've found that does what the other two do and offers the two additional features (wind angle and shooting angle) is called PC Ballistics. Current version is 1.8. It's old (looks like DOS), the interface isn't as good, but it's outstanding.

All of these programs provide you with a bullet library listing common bullets of various sizes along with their Ballistic Coefficient (BC) which is a measure of how aerodynamic they are. If the bullets you use aren't in there, you can check with the manufacturer. PC Ballistics has a routine that can compute the BC given the velocity at two different distances.

All of them also take into consideration environmental conditions (temperature, humidity, pressure, land elevation, etc.) to different levels of precision.

Lastly, you can google "pejsa ballistics" and find an excel spreadsheet that provides virtually all the same data. You need to feed it ballistics coefficients (it doesn't have a library of bullets), and it doesn't have shooting angle, but does have everything else including wind angle.

On my blackberry I have a program called Documents To Go that lets me view and edit excel spreadsheets. I have the pejsa sheet on it so I can enter random distances right at the range and adjust immediately without guessing, without paper, and without a PC.

Good luck to you, and hope you enjoy the sport.

 

[TCA4570]

Re: long range ( to me ) shooting question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Breeze67</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What are you going to do for the g-hogs that are over 200yds?
</div></div>

Sounds like time for big game load.
168-AMAX.
They shoot good, well past 1000.

Thank's

TC