Long wait

[rusty815]

Re: Long wait

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally never take a quote on time seriously </div></div>
Guess the America/world I grow up in is in fact dead. Glad the bulk of my time was with folks you could look in the eye, shake hands with an never have to ink anything. Having a missed date long ago happened as well, but the supplier would contact an give cause as to why. Then again if the customer is good with that, I'd supply names first as well. Keeps the product on the front lines, adds money to my coffers and allows me to really be the boss of who gets what when. Then again with all the folks that want my product, fuck the whiners. Who are they to hold me to my word!


</div></div>

I keep in regular contact with the supplier, so keeping in contact with him is not an issue. The supplier even helps me with all things guns, good pistols to buy, where to go with a build, load development, etc. I don't really have a problem with a supplier having to take more time to produce a custom product as long as they are easy to contact and above all else, friendly and good to deal with.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: Long wait

I ordered my Manners T3 stock in Nov 2011. I just got it 2 weeks ago. Its awesome.

 

[Guest]

Re: Long wait

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually you're using the term "bait and switch" incorrectly. A bait and switch is when product "X" is promised and then product "Y" is given with some excuse such as "X" isn't made any more or out of stock.

Delayed time frames are nothing more than that. Now perhaps customers should be given outlandish time frames and then when the product comes in weeks or months earlier, they're much happier. To ask for an "estimate" on when the product will be complete and then expect that "estimate" to equal an exact date is, to me, unrealistic. Now granted, 2-4 months turning into 7 is starting to get very unacceptable, there are other factors besides a factory "burning to the ground" to prevent orders from coming out.

The beautiful thing about the USA capitalistic society is it's about supply and demand. If you buy something and don't like the service and/or product, don't buy from again. We all vote with our wallet. </div></div>

A ship date is a ship date, and when it was never true from the get go it is a bait an switch.
If I told you it's going to be 8-12 months before you get X the bulk of the folks will pass right away. If I tell you 6-8 weeks most will hang on, an place the order. Then once they are locked in with a deposit or hope, they are very easily per-swayed to remain on the hook. The ones that agree to that is not the conversation we are having, it's the guy that still believes what he is told an plans other things around that.

Many things can be out of a venders hands, but that has nothing to do with realistic ship dates. Most honest venders will quit taking orders until they can get back within their word. However there is a much larger group out there that is so money hungry they will tell you just enough to get you locked in, then use the bait an switch ship date.

 

[rusty815]

Re: Long wait

From wikipedia on Bait and switch: "First, customers are "baited" by advertising for a product or service at a low price; second, the customers discover that the advertised good is not available and are "switched" to a costlier product."

This isn't a bait and switch, its a delay, and not really a delay since a manufacturer's quote on time doesn't mean anything.

Simply put, if you want it, keep waiting, if not, just cancel your order and get most of your money back.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Long wait

Mikes right GF, it's not technically a bait & switch. If anything it's a default of contract if the vendor guaranteed delivery, but if they said "estimate" then there is an assumed risk. I'm not disagreeing though that there are unreputable vendors who fuck over the single order to please larger orders... And if anyone on the hide has bitched about vendors its me, lol...

 

[Guest]

Re: Long wait

If a ship date means nothing to you guys that is fine by me, but I'm old school. I take a man at his word, because when you ass is dead an gone, the only things folks will remember is which side of the line you would have been on, or stood for.

However if the majority of the "New Crop" wants to ride the feel good, it's OK to lie to me, whatever fence, so be it. You reap want you sow,...or settle for.
I now fully understand how this country, has gotten to this point.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Long wait

Rifle maybe you should just get an HS Precision stock
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3439148#Post3439148

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Long wait

The HS should be safe in Norway...

 

[Mike]

Re: Long wait

Please cite us a specific example of where a vendor used the words "I promise, I give you my word, I guarantee, etc." that a product would be in your hands by "X" date. Because if you can't, this entire rhetoric of "my word is my bond" is grossly over the top.

I'm all about looking men in the eye and keeping promises but how you're stretching that a vendor's delivery estimate is the downfall of our society is beyond me.

 

[Rick 324]

Re: Long wait

Man you guys are brutal... We just need somebody to start chanting Fight... Fight!!! and it is on...

Rifle good luck with your choice but if you feel you are getting screwed, throw the makers name out there so the rest of us know not to do business with them... If you think that they are just busy as hell... then wiat for your kit and enjoy it even more when you get it...

I have custom stocks and HS/P, Choate, etc.. the only thing that I like is one mounted on my gun that does what it is supposed to do... Shoot Straight!!!

Good Luck!!!

 

[Guest]

Re: Long wait

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please cite us a specific example of where a vendor used the words "I promise, I give you my word, I guarantee, etc." that a product would be in your hands by "X" date. Because if you can't, this entire rhetoric of "my word is my bond" is grossly over the top.

I'm all about looking men in the eye and keeping promises but how you're stretching that a vendor's delivery estimate is the downfall of our society is beyond me. </div></div>

Really,... Glad you enjoy living in a lawyer world, me, I happen to think that is part of this country's down fall myself.
When they say 6-8 weeks for delivery after order placement, that tends to imply something to me. If they tell you somewhere between 6 weeks an a year, does that imply anything to you, or are you good across the board with that as well, and would you still order it from them? My guess would be some would, but most would move on.
Then again it's hard to acquire favor from banks w/o standing, right?

Lets say X is having a match in 6 weeks and you plan for it, show up, but that dog did not hunt. You call and they say sorry it's going to be 2-4 more weeks. By your account that would be OK as well, I mean it's just a date?
Bottom line it matters little wither it's lawyer contract speak, but to imply a date, then keep the goal line moving is not a problem for you?

 

[Mike]

Re: Long wait

So you're happy with 6-8 weeks but 6 weeks to a year is not ok? Where is the line? Is it a two week window? A month window? How long?

If you plan on a match without your gear prepped and ready to go, that is on the shooter. Why are you planning to get a key piece of gear right before a match?

I can understand a small delay. At two, I'm truly getting concerned, at three I move on. I am in business and I completely understand that there are things outside of a manufacturers control. 6-8 weeks quoted and it's only been an extra 2-4 weeks? Stuff happens. That's not a "lawyer world" that's called "real world". To give you an example I needed a key piece of equipment overnighted to me last year. Guess what? A snow storm halted all flights through Fedex's Memphis hub. Do I blame Fedex or the vendor I got the product from? Did the vendor not keep their word to the best of their ability? Who do you blame?

 

[Guest]

Re: Long wait

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you're happy with 6-8 weeks but 6 weeks to a year is not ok? Where is the line? Is it a two week window? A month window? How long?</div></div> Matters little to me what the date is if I except it. The question at hand is the first date being carrot an stick'ed as, it was never realistic from the start. That's called the bait, and when it is switched,... well you get the drift.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you plan on a match without your gear prepped and ready to go, that is on the shooter. Why are you planning to get a key piece of gear right before a match? </div></div> You answered your own question below. Myself, I don't wait for a need, thats the part I call forethought/planning an logistics, an roll with what I have at the time. If I don't have the gear to compete that is my bad an mine only, as I should have known what I needed if I'm playing the game. Regardless of what that game is.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> To give you an example I needed a key piece of equipment overnighted to me last year. Guess what? A snow storm halted all flights through Fedex's Memphis hub. Do I blame Fedex or the vendor I got the product from? Did the vendor not keep their word to the best of their ability? Who do you blame?</div></div> The blame is your's 100% for not planning prior, an you know that. Waiting until the need is there/now is very poor planning. Then again many folks relish that and add to their hip national because the country as a whole whats everything right now.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Long wait

Dude... You can call it misleading, fraud, lying, or even a false promise but it's not a bait and switch. To bait and switch you have to offer one product but in fact not have it nor ever had it and then offer a completely diffferent product instead. You keep throwing that term out like it's the word of the day on some desk calendar but you never bothered to read its definition...

 

[105amatt]

Re: Long wait

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dude... You can call it misleading, fraud, lying, or even a false promise but it's not a bait and switch. To bait and switch you have to offer one product but in fact not have it nor ever had it and then offer a completely diffferent product instead. You keep throwing that term out like it's the word of the day on some desk calendar but you never bothered to read its definition... </div></div>

Broker is right. Here is an example of Bait and Switch: I advertise an iPod in the PX, you buy it, I send you a walkman. Suppliers have issues, manufacturers have issues, shippers have issues. One link in the chain stumbles then it holds the rest up. Stuff happens, plan ahead better.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Long wait

Whether it's 'carrot on a stick' or 'bait and switch' doesn't matter. "Is it right?" is what matters. Seeing unforseeable delays I can understand. Being put to the back of the list because someone 'more important' comes along and wants your project is bullshit of any color you want to paint it.

If you are not happy with the continued timeline, then as quickly and efficiently as you can (not losing too much deposit money), move on.

To the OP,

I understood it was about getting what you paid for. That's what several of us tried to explain. Those who build great stocks and rifles are in very high demand. The supply of necessary parts to make them can cause these builds to drag out. Occasionally, you get the odd viper in the banana bunch who drags you out way too long, and steals your money. Not usually the case.
The point we were making is we have all seen these drag out. A couple weeks isn't much to worry about. A couple months is. But as long as the vendor keeps in touch, it's good. Unless you need something now. In that case you'll have to shop around for what will work for you and you'll have to pay what it takes to get it now.

 

[palma]

Re: Long wait

Over a year is too long to wait IMO when you're promised much quicker delivery. Even more of a problem is if you've already paid with a credit card, I don't think you can dispute. Small claims court may be the only remedy.

The thing that really gets me, however, is that the "popular" people are given much quicker delivery times. I've seen it first hand, and it's a shame. My money is the same color green and in some cases, I've got more of it to spend.

 

[JB02]

Re: Long wait

Waiting over twice as long without calling every other week is the OP's own damn fault. Pick your cliche here: squeaky wheel gets oiled, if you lay down you get walked over, vote with your wallet, etc.

To answer his original question, I would have bailed long before; probably at the 20 week point if I was quoted between 10-12, unless it was being done as a favor or a nicely discounted price.

I know that good gear built to your specs is nice to have, but there are many vendors that you can use. Unless you have something really exotic, its not that hard to find substitute parts. Someone did a different types of chassis thread not too long ago and I was amazed at all the options. If only one particular spec build will suit you, you are implicitly agreeing to this kind of situation.

 

[Cuban Croc]

Re: Long wait

Owners of companies can do whatever they want...it's their company. That said, it is your choice whether to do business w/said company. Sometimes I have waited longer than I wanted to have a certain piece of equipment. Now I look in the sale section and usually find what I want. Good luck. Been there, done that.

 

[Cuban Croc]

Re: Long wait

A person would be naive to think companies don't shuffle products around to their benefit. A big name gunsmith wants some stocks, actions, barrels, etc...a person might get bumped. A company screws-up an order or misplaces an order and yours might go to someone else. A well known competitive shooter needs some gear fast...well, he/she might get yours or your order might be bumped. Shit happens. This is all hearsay, but I would bet it happens. Waiting a little longer than expected is ok, but in your case I would state it has been a little to long. Again, good luck.