Looking a new lightweight hunter/precision rig

[Nivium]

Alright, so I'm having trouble deciding on the best build for a lightweight/long-range hunting rig, or whether to build one out at all vs. just buying a complete rifle. I do a lot of stalk hunting for bigger North American game, and while most shots are within 250yds, it isn't unusual to stretch past 500. At the same time, it needs enough stability to be shot quickly, in awkward positions, against a tree, etc. And for the money I'm willing to drop, it would be great for this to double as a local PRS trainer and long-range target gun.

I can always get a fix in 308 or 6.5, but more than once I've wanted something bigger than a 308 and ethical velocity for a 308 drops off around 550yds. Can go 300wm, 300RUM or 338 lap, but might end up kicking myself over weight. Not a fan of thin profiles, so will probably put a carbon Bartlein or Proof on it.

Scope will be a Leica Magnus, Zeiss Victory v8 20, or a March groundhog scope.

I guess the question is: What would you recommend for a semi-lightweight yet long-range precision action and stock without a price cap (within reason)? Caliber recommendations? Or would you recommend a specific rifle and skip the gunsmith work?

Thanks in advance

 

[bdickers]

I've also been researching options for future Alaska and Africa hunts. I've narrowed the selection to this one in 300 Win Mag:

Proof Research Elevation Rifle

proofresearch.com

Not outrageously expensive, the company has a fine reputation for quality, accuracy and customer service. For a rifle that will be carried
more than shot, I have not found anything more suitable or appealing.

 

[408w]

May want to check out fierce firearms.

 

[The D]

Are you interested in building your own rifle or do you want to buy something ready to go right now? Bolt guns are essentially firearm legos like the AR platform now so it’s easy to get incredible value for your $$ if you can build your own

Do you reload or are you only looking for factory ammo? Just like above, if you’re willing to put a little more effort into your ammo it’s possible to get much more in return.

Example: There are plenty of handload recipes for .30-06ai that make it comparable to 300wm and suitable for any NA game, even at longer ranges than 500 yds. And in a pinch you can still shoot factory .30-06 ammo

There are many many more cartridge options than this, I just chose the .30-06 example because it’s so versatile

 

[B4forever]

I’d start by choosing your caliber, and whether or not you reload will play heavily into this. Being that you’re wanting to shoot some matches and hunt with the same rifle obviously means you’re going to make some compromises. My vote for caliber would be 6.5 prc…some would consider it light for elk sized game but i think the Berger 156 makes it viable. 2nd choice would be something in the 7mm variety such as 7saum. The big 30 and 338 cal magnums generate way to much recoil for match work in a rifle light enough to hunt with. Once you’ve chosen a caliber it’ll be easier to pick out a rifle.

 

[DJL2]

I'm with B4... start with the projectile you want to deliver, with how much velocity, and at what range. That will give you a range of chamberings and barrel lengths to choose from. My gut says something in the SAUM/06 (or comparable) family will do everything you want with aplomb. The options are vast and come down to personal preference... .280 AI, .284, 7 SAUM, 7 SS, 7 MAX, 7 WSM, 7 Rem Mag, 7 SAW... I think pretty much all of those would do what you want, for example.

I don't know that you're gonna get much value as a PRS trainer from running a light weight rig on a medium/long action, though. The Everyday Sniper podcast covers Frank (@lowlight ) ordering up a Terminus action for the quality and features... so, there's that for an endorsement. Same podcast also said he's happy to run Bighorn/Zermat Origins because they're cheap and effective (comparatively) and that he's "over" the action wars. I'd guess that means buy quality with the features you want and call it good. You could also just buy a Tikka as a donor action and put whatever you want on it.

 

[deersniper]

Post a wtb ad here I’ve seen a lot of nice 300 norma and 300 wm along with a couple 7 mag rifles sell at great prices

 

[Lowlight]

6.5PRC is the closet we have come to a, "do has much as possible" with a single cartridge as we have.

You don't need an oversized magnum to hunt with, a 6.5 PRC has plenty of energy behind it.

I would do the PRC and then load for the different situations, have a hunting load, a match load, an ELR load, etc,

Just remember barrels are tires, replace often

 

[Matt_3479]

what is the big game your going after?

prs trainer plus hunting rifle don’t overly go hand in hand. A prs trainer tends to be something with good barrel life, and cheap to reload something like a 223 rem, 308, 6.5 creed, and while all are great hunting calibers none match what your asking out of a hunting rifle “something bigger then a 308, large North American game”.

when you say large North American game I think bear, elk and moose and my natural instincts say 7mm and up with the preference on a 30 cal. Now a hunting rifle with a long range target rifle go hand in hand! So with that said, I would go 7mm saum personally in the 7mm family, or a 300 win mag, 300 wsm or my newer favourite is the 300 Norma mag.

as far as building vs buying. Something about building I just like, hence why I have 7 and planning an 8th but nether are a bad choice. Building just gives you the option to fully get everything you want off the hop. There are plenty of good higher end factory rifles too though. Fierce, christensen arms, kelbly koda just to name a few.

as far as action and stock are concerned that is totally preference. Money not being an object I really like manners stocks personally and Mcmillan’s a close second. For actions they’re all super great! First decide 60 degree or 90. Then decide some of your features you want. Personally I really like my impact, kelbly and defiance for a 90 degree. They are very smooth, very reputable companies and run in any condition (impact and kelbly specifically). For 60 degrees I’m incredibly partial to terminus and KS arms. Ks being a small family run company in Canada but there action and barrels are amazing. Very very smooth and the lightest 3 lug bolt lift I’ve ever felt. Easy to get a hold the owner and super good to deal with. The terminus is another great one. The threaded trigger pins and simplicity behind changing a barrel is phenomenal. The owner is amazing to deal with ans they are build like tanks.

 

[Franko]

I suggest you build or have a reputable smith put a gun together because it lets you get your rifle exactly as you want it. I also suggest you build a single purpose hunting rifle as a "do it all" build will just be mediocre at everything. I would go with a 7mm Rem Magnum in an 8 twist carbon fiber barrel, but you can't go wrong with a 30-06 or 300 Win Mag either.

 

[moxford]

I am building an ARC LA nuke2.0 (small Savage shank) on a CAT stock Proof Sendero cut, m5 cut Hunter DBM bottom metal.

Proof Sendero CF has same external dimensions irrespective of chambering.

Want a 223? Swap the bolt face and the barrel, use a headspace gauge, and set it up.

300WM? Swap the bolt face and the barrel, use a headspace gauge, and set it up.

204 Ruger? 338 Lapua? 7SAUM? Swap the bolt face and the barrel, use a headspace gauge, and set it up.

Want a heavy thick target barrel? You have room. Mountain rifle in any caliber? ProofCF is nice and light.

Mag feeding won't be optimal, obviously, but, it will mostly live in the 30SM 1:8 and 30-06AI 1:8 worlds, and I won't mind single feeding at the range. Or so I hope. Single feeding 223 for training work may make me hate life ... to be seen. Need to find (or make) a Hunter DBM LA magazine profile which will feed 223/ 204 ...

 

[Nivium]

Are you interested in building your own rifle or do you want to buy something ready to go right now? Bolt guns are essentially firearm legos like the AR platform now so it’s easy to get incredible value for your $$ if you can build your own

Do you reload or are you only looking for factory ammo? Just like above, if you’re willing to put a little more effort into your ammo it’s possible to get much more in return.

Example: There are plenty of handload recipes for .30-06ai that make it comparable to 300wm and suitable for any NA game, even at longer ranges than 500 yds. And in a pinch you can still shoot factory .30-06 ammo

There are many many more cartridge options than this, I just chose the .30-06 example because it’s so versatile

I'm ready to build one out myself, but would buy a rifle outright from a manufacturer that I knew would be as careful and meticulous as I would--and use the highest quality parts.

As far as handloading, I will handload for it most likely. However, I do have a thing for rifles that I can pick up ammo for in a squeeze (like right now with primers being unobtainium).

 

[beetroot]

It might not be sexy but a Tikka CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor will suit your purpose just fine in factory format, or drop it in your choice of stock or chassis.

If you are going to change the barrel then a standard tikka in whatever bolt face you want will be a better option.
284win is a sweet cartridge that'll work well in long Tikka mags, and can work very well with short barrel lengths

 

[The D]

I'm ready to build one out myself, but would buy a rifle outright from a manufacturer that I knew would be as careful and meticulous as I would--and use the highest quality parts.

As far as handloading, I will handload for it most likely. However, I do have a thing for rifles that I can pick up ammo for in a squeeze (like right now with primers being unobtainium).

Like beetroot says, a more affordable option would be a tikka. They can accept prefit barrels with no gunsmithing needed, other than maybe getting an original barrel off.

I pound the drums for switch-barrel setups pretty hard, no matter what bolt action you choose. It would be easy enough(in my head, at least) to buy two barrels for the same cartridge but throated for different ammo, if you choose to be that specific.

I also pound the drums for bolt actions with replaceable bolt heads. If you can resist the urge to just build separate rifles the versatility they provide is pretty incredible

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I believe you are really asking too much for one rifle. Better to purchase two fairly nice rifles, one for each purpose. Compromise rifles rarely compromise, usually they do neither intended purpose worth a darn, jsut cost money and eat up resources, all the while leaving the user with a black cloud over his head.

There are some fairly nice PRS training rifles under the 2K price range and some go a lot less, again, use them as trainers not for the big go at the AG Cup. Good Hunting rifles can be had that can do all you want and more for less than a K. Some even a lot less. At this price point, nothing walking in North America can stand up to them with a well placed shot. (And some no where currently walking on the Earth.).

So that would be my recommendation. Get one of each and enjoy, not one that does poorly at each job and angers.

 

[Lost_Phil]

I'm ready to build one out myself, but would buy a rifle outright from a manufacturer that I knew would be as careful and meticulous as I would--and use the highest quality parts.

As far as handloading, I will handload for it most likely. However, I do have a thing for rifles that I can pick up ammo for in a squeeze (like right now with primers being unobtainium).

You are in the same position I was a year ago and I decided at that time to pull the trigger on the two I am building now, a 308 Win and 300 Win mag. Both are built on factory Remingtion actions with 24 inch Remage barrels. It does not take much in tools to assemble them now that there are really good actions out there with tight tolerances. You will need an action wrench, barrel vice and go/no-go gauges.

I would look at the 6.5 PRC or 300 WSM calibers to achieve what you are looking to do. You can also get different barrels over time to change from one caliber to another to best fit what you are doing at the time. As for actions, I would look at the ARC Archimedes or Terminus ZUS actions. As for the barrel, there are many that can make a fixed shoulder barrel for any of these actions, like Proof, Bartelin, and Preferred barrel blanks.

For the chassis, I would look at the MDT ACC, MPA BA or KRG Whiskey 3. The ARC Xylo is another chassis contender as well.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

As others have said, I think you'd be better off going with 2 rifles but if you are sure about the one rifle plan, seems like a switch barrel or just a prefit action with 2 different barrels would be a good way to go. You could have a 6mm variant of your choice barrel for comps and then whatever you decided for hunting... have to stay in short action but still seems like the best option given your stated parameters.

 

[KnowNothing256]

^ This here.

 

[Nivium]

You are in the same position I was a year ago and I decided at that time to pull the trigger on the two I am building now, a 308 Win and 300 Win mag. Both are built on factory Remingtion actions with 24 inch Remage barrels. It does not take much in tools to assemble them now that there are really good actions out there with tight tolerances. You will need an action wrench, barrel vice and go/no-go gauges.

I would look at the 6.5 PRC or 300 WSM calibers to achieve what you are looking to do. You can also get different barrels over time to change from one caliber to another to best fit what you are doing at the time. As for actions, I would look at the ARC Archimedes or Terminus ZUS actions. As for the barrel, there are many that can make a fixed shoulder barrel for any of these actions, like Proof, Bartelin, and Preferred barrel blanks.

For the chassis, I would look at the MDT ACC, MPA BA or KRG Whiskey 3. The ARC Xylo is another chassis contender as well.

Great, thank you. This is really the kind of answer I am looking for. Why those action selections, out of curiosity? Is it a matter of weight, reputation, beddability?

In terms of stock, I am thinking the MPA hybrid hunter, which as I understand is a blend between the competition model and the lightweight hunter model (in terms of weight).

Thanks again

 

[Lost_Phil]

The group I hunt with, one of them has a Terminus action that I have had a chance to shoot a few times, and the ARC Archimedes is the one I plan on using in the next high dollar build I plan to start next year if things don't go tits up. So they were the ones that popped into my head when I replied to your questions. There are allot of good aftermarket actions out there, so I would put a list together of what you are looking for in features, and then research the actions that seems to stick out to you. Like the ARC does for me in what I was looking for in features.

The MPA hybrid hunter looks like a nice choice, though I have never tried one, I have tried there BA series and really like the way it felt for a chassis. I am not much of a chassis guy, I prefer a stock like the KRG Bravo or Manners. Though my buddy is pushing me to use a chassis in my next build, so I am looking at Cadex, MPA and MDT.

With the newer stocks and chassis with the M-Lock system, you can add weight as necessary for matches and then remove it for hunting. You can also do the same for the barrels and scopes. Phillip Velayo has a few videos on this about his rifle that he uses in the new NRL Hunter league. He also uses the same rifle in the regular NRL/PRL matches as well by adding weight and swapping barrels.

 

[Stumpy1]

I just listed this one this afternoon!

 

[gsdog1]

Bonafide JAFO here, thus the low post count.

Looking at the lightweight hunting options lined out here, and have been looking for something similar. 500 yards and in for deer type critters, as well as being rather heavily vested equipment and material wise in the caliber, I'm going .308 Win.

Thoughts on Seekins' Havak Element in various calibers to meet the OP's requirement?

Havak Element

<p>Seekins Precision’s next phase of Unrivaled Innovation--the HAVAK ELEMENT. Drawing on years of precision AR rifle experience and the unparalleled success of our HAVAK line, Seekins Precision has created the hybrid, ultra-light-weight hunting rifl

seekinsprecision.com

 

[beetroot]

So long as your idea of a PRS trainer isn't the "normal" one i think you can easily build a single rifle to suit your purposes.

When most people say trainer they want a 223 or 22lr or similar that is cheap to shoot and barrels last forever. If you just want a rifle that can be used for PRS style shooting but isn't a gamer gun, then that is entirely possible.

As others have said choose the cartridge you want first, this will be the main deciding factor in which action to use which magazines and which chassis/stock options are available.

It might also help to choose a weight limit, there are so many options out there you really need to start putting constraints on what you want to help limit your choices as there are just too many if everything is being considered.

 

[Nivium]

So long as your idea of a PRS trainer isn't the "normal" one i think you can easily build a single rifle to suit your purposes.

When most people say trainer they want a 223 or 22lr or similar that is cheap to shoot and barrels last forever. If you just want a rifle that can be used for PRS style shooting but isn't a gamer gun, then that is entirely possible.

As others have said choose the cartridge you want first, this will be the main deciding factor in which action to use which magazines and which chassis/stock options are available.

It might also help to choose a weight limit, there are so many options out there you really need to start putting constraints on what you want to help limit your choices as there are just too many if everything is being considered.

This exactly. I do not mean a 223 trainer--more a hunting rifle that I can train with/mess around with for precision at long ranges. Weight limit is around 7.5 lbs with optic, unless I go with a 338 or something that demands a heavier barrel and then I might up it a little.

You are also right about caliber, the issue is making a decision. 6.5 PRC seems to be the most efficient in terms of recoil to range/accuracy, but I would have to get the barrel nitrided once broken in because I've grown to hate replacing barrels and the 6.5 PRC will eat through them if I don't. I'd like to get a proof carbon for this build for weight, but I don't know if I can nitride it like I can a typical SS barrel.

 

[KnowNothing256]

This exactly. I do not mean a 223 trainer--more a hunting rifle that I can train with/mess around with for precision at long ranges. Weight limit is around 7.5 lbs with optic, unless I go with a 338 or something that demands a heavier barrel and then I might up it a little.

You are also right about caliber, the issue is making a decision. 6.5 PRC seems to be the most efficient in terms of recoil to range/accuracy, but I would have to get the barrel nitrided once broken in because I've grown to hate replacing barrels and the 6.5 PRC will eat through them if I don't. I'd like to get a proof carbon for this build for weight, but I don't know if I can nitride it like I can a typical SS barrel.

This is a new concept for me, buying barrel life with nitriding.

If it was that important, you could potentially have Proof set the contoured core off to the side in their process, nitride it, then finish the wrap. All machining after that would remove nitride in those places, but the bore would retain the treatment.

I know you mentioned doing it after break-in, which is usually on the order of 50-100 rounds. If it’s gonna buy you a significant bump in barrel life, then it would need to last much longer than 100 rounds anyway, right? Why only after break-in?

 

[Nivium]

This is a new concept for me, buying barrel life with nitriding.

If it was that important, you could potentially have Proof set the contoured core off to the side in their process, nitride it, then finish the wrap. All machining after that would remove nitride in those places, but the bore would retain the treatment.

I know you mentioned doing it after break-in, which is usually on the order of 50-100 rounds. If it’s gonna buy you a significant bump in barrel life, then it would need to last much longer than 100 rounds anyway, right? Why only after break-in?

Theoretically, you could nitride at about 200 when the barrel is at its most accurate, but from my understanding of the nitride process, any bores or knicks in the bore would get exacerbated by the heat and potentially made permanent through the nitriding process. I prefer to nitride after break-in, so you don't nitride over any imperfections in the bore that breakin would eliminate and make them more permanent, and to start the barrel life increase as early as possible. To do this with a carbon barrel, I guess I would have to order it and shoot it, then find a place that does the lower temperature nitride process and roll the dice on whether it will mess up the bonding with the carbon fiber wrap.

 

[beetroot]

This exactly. I do not mean a 223 trainer--more a hunting rifle that I can train with/mess around with for precision at long ranges. Weight limit is around 7.5 lbs with optic, unless I go with a 338 or something that demands a heavier barrel and then I might up it a little.

You are also right about caliber, the issue is making a decision. 6.5 PRC seems to be the most efficient in terms of recoil to range/accuracy, but I would have to get the barrel nitrided once broken in because I've grown to hate replacing barrels and the 6.5 PRC will eat through them if I don't. I'd like to get a proof carbon for this build for weight, but I don't know if I can nitride it like I can a typical SS barrel.

Regarding cartridge choice whats more important, recoil, barrel life or ballistics?
If barrel life is important I'd be looking more at something like 284win would be a better choice for barrel life, similar ballistics but (probably) more recoil, unfortunately you will have to compromise somewhere.

284win would be my choice, or 7SAUM (worse barrel life though) but with your (ambitious) weight limit would need a decent muzzle brake.
If you are concerned about barrel life investigate the 6.5 SAUM with the 4s reamer and what magic guys have done to squeeze extra barrel life, other wise 6.5CM, 25CM, 7mmSAW/7-08AI or similar not too overbore cartridges offer a good compromise.

 

[Temper]

This exactly. I do not mean a 223 trainer--more a hunting rifle that I can train with/mess around with for precision at long ranges. Weight limit is around 7.5 lbs with optic, unless I go with a 338 or something that demands a heavier barrel and then I might up it a little.

You are also right about caliber, the issue is making a decision. 6.5 PRC seems to be the most efficient in terms of recoil to range/accuracy, but I would have to get the barrel nitrided once broken in because I've grown to hate replacing barrels and the 6.5 PRC will eat through them if I don't. I'd like to get a proof carbon for this build for weight, but I don't know if I can nitride it like I can a typical SS barrel.

7.5lbs for rifle/optic is a hard goal to hit even for a dedicated lightweight rig with a titanium action and CF barrel. You're going to be handicapped doing any kind of precision rifle training with a 10lbs short mag, let alone a 7.5lbs one. You have to be honest with what you want out of this gun and what you're going to use it for because no one wants to stalk with a 11lbs+ rifle or shoot precision with a 7.5lbs one.

 

[Mjolnir23]

New Ultralight Arms would get you a rifle/optic that is 7.5lbs, don't think it would be ideal for competition shooting though.

 

[DocRDS]

Take a step back. You want a lightweight big game rifle (aka Magnum), preferably larger than 308/6.5. My shoulder hurts thinking about that.

PRS training means a 6 Cal or at most a 6.5. NO ONE shoots anything larger than 308 in PRS. (there's always that guy, but he's doin his thing and he might of been dropped on his head as a youth--i'm not here to judge).

I would say the 'manbun' would be a good lightweight hunting rifle and PRS double. Of course PRS rifles tend to be heavy, tricked out, and of course setup for....

wait for it.....

PRS.


A good lightweight hunting do-it-all rifle: 30-06 or 7mm Mag (7 is right on that edge of 300 Win Mag punishment). 300 Win Mag is the MAX I would go and I gotta say it is not fun to shoot a lightweight 300 in just a t-shirt. Pretty much outside of Alaska--you don't need more than a 6.5/308. Be radical---go 260 remington <.< >.>

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Listen to Frank when he notes that a big Magnum is not essential.

I have always drawn the upper line at the .30-06, and have less intentions toward the long shots on live animals. Things can go a number if ways with that.

One never expects to miss, but it happens; and a near miss is worse, wounding an animal to wander away and die wasted.

But let's assume you do connect well; you still have to bring that carcass back to your transport, and that can be a back breaker. Longer/longest hunting shots carry their own penalty.

Then; to get good hit at greater ranges, you need more magnification. For scores of years, the 3-9x40 was the goto hunter's scope. These days, on could assume that the sky's the limit. But it's not. Yes, you can see to take the longer shots; but that's like the 4x4 drivers. They tend to get stuck just like the 2WD's; they just end up doing it further from the road. There are more aspects to the hunt than just the shot, and we need to consider all of them with care.

I limit my rifle to something along the lines of the Winchester Model 70 .30-'06 Featherweight, and the Weaver V-16 is my all-around scope for hunting. Yes; I'm one of them, the Neanderthal. It may be archaic, but it still works every bit as well as it always did.

These days, my SIL owns that rifle, and I went with something newer, cheaper, and well suited to the job; it was designed precisely for it. It's the Savage Axis II .30-'06.; surprisingly, it feels about as light in the hand as that Winchester. The original plastic stock did not fit me well, and I didn't like the styling; so I replaced it with a Boyd's Laminated one, and it transformed the rifle's fit, feel, and it helped me shoot it better. The Axis II trigger adjusts, and I like mine adjusted down around 2-3lb of pull weight.

Yes, there are very good reasons to build and to do so in a sophisticated manner. But it's not the only adequate way. Better yet, it's an inexpensive way, and can leave you with a bunch of ready cash that can be invested in a purely PRS-adapted rifle. That rifle will justify the accuracy features included in it, will do better with a less punishing chambering, and probably be cheaper to shoot. That's a key feature, because getting to the top standings requires lots of shooting.

Africa and Alaska Hunts require special equipment, and the best place to get that info is from the guides who run such hunts.

Greg