Rifle Scopes Looking at getting first LPVO

[Diesel79]

I’ve been only using red dots since I jumped into AR’s several years back. I ordered a JP CTR02/223 Wylde chamber with an 18” barrel last month and I’m looking at LPVO and mount options. Trying to keep the optic and mount under 2k.

It’s not gonna be a dedicated long range bench shooter but more of an all around usage. A majority of shooting 200yds and under, sometimes with bipod. A carbine class here and there. Some yote hunting. I’ll stretch it out to 600 at times, but those outings will be limited just due to availability.

It seems like the Razor 1-6 Gen II E is a good option and seems to be highly regarded. I was liking the simplicity of the BDC reticle. I looked through one at the LGS and liked it. Great warranty as well.

Nightforce NX8 is also in my range. I need to research this one more. I’ve read complaints of a small eyebox.

Next step up from what I’ve been reading would be the Kahles K16i but with a mount starts getting over my budget.

As far as mounts I was liking Badger Ordnance C1 1.7 or 1.93, Spuhr 1.89 cantilever, or Scalarworks. Leaning towards the Spuhr. I don’t require QD. I’m 6-5 so the taller mounts tend to be more comfortable, but not opposed to 1.5” if it preferable with a LPVO.

The Scalarworks Vortex combo directly from them is actually the lowest price. I’ve had their red dot mounts and liked them, but never a scope mount. $1,639 and no tax whereas all the other options will be 1,900 or more after tax. Looks like Scalarworks they recently made some nice upgrades to the mount as well.

The Nightforce NX8 combo from Scalarworks is also well priced when you take into account they get $439 just for the mount on its own.

Am I on the right track? Im sure I’m missing some good options in my price range.

The rifle won’t be here until May - June timeframe so I have some time.

 

[Birddog6424]

I would take the Razor over the NX8. I honestly am completely unimpressed with the entire NX8 line up. If they were less money I would think them a better value. But I don't think the value is there for what they ask for them.

 

[JDB55]

Razor 1-6x24 if you want second focal plane with a nuclear bright dot. I think if your a FFP person and want a better reticle for 600 yards shooting from time to time, I think the new Primary Arms PLxC 1-8x24 and Eotech vudu 1-10x28 are gonna be really for that sub $1700-1800 price category.

Neither have the nuclear dot like the Razor, but for stretching the 5.56 legs a bit I think they are gonna be great and the reticles are better. It really gets down to your preference and what your wanting to optimize it as/for, but I would research those other two optics out and see if the specs and reticles catch your eye as they are both brand new.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I think if your a FFP person

I would advise against a person pigeonholing themselves into either the FFP or SFP camp. It might make sense in higher powered optics but in LPVO's SFP can absolutely be as useful or even better than FFP. Under 8x there's a strong case to be made for SFP, they are less reliant on either perfect reticle design or bright illumination to be usable at 1x, and most of the time if you need to use the reticle for holdovers (250+ yards) you'll likely be at max magnification anyway. This seems to be a foreign concept on this forum but a well rounded rifleman can understand and use both in their ideal roles.

 

[JDB55]

I would advise against a person pigeonholing themselves into either the FFP or SFP camp. It might make sense in higher powered optics but in LPVO's SFP can absolutely be as useful or even better than FFP. Under 8x there's a strong case to be made for SFP, they are less reliant on either perfect reticle design or bright illumination to be usable at 1x, and most of the time if you need to use the reticle for holdovers (250+ yards) you'll likely be at max magnification anyway. This seems to be a foreign concept on this forum but a well rounded rifleman can understand and use both in their ideal roles.

I actually completely agree with you and did not specify this in my post. Thank you. I've come to think that 1-6 and below is SFP territory (just because I'm going to mainly be on 1 or 6) and above that I see the benefit of FFP on 8x and especially 10x(because I'm more likely to use those in between magnifications). Good catch/information Tiger. I have a 1-6 SFP Delta Stryker on a 16" Ar15 and really enjoy it, have effectively shot it out to 550 yards easily.

My thought for "FFP" guy was more of a thought of the modern Christmas tree style reticles in some of the FFP LPVOs that are more optimized for distances and cover up less of the target(this is of course optic/reticle dependent) at distance. I didn't clarify this either.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I actually completely agree with you and did not specify this in my post.

Yup. Wasn't at all disagreeing with you as much as adding my experiences with LPVO's onto what you said.

 

[Birddog6424]

I have a 6x Gen II Razor with the Miculek reticle, and an XTRII 8x in FFP. The ones they used to have made by LOW.

I think the focal types are appropriate to both, I wouldn't change a thing. If the Razor is one of the scopes you are considering, they are a solid performer.

 

[Diesel79]

I have a 6x Gen II Razor with the Miculek reticle, and an XTRII 8x in FFP. The ones they used to have made by LOW.

I think the focal types are appropriate to both, I wouldn't change a thing. If the Razor is one of the scopes you are considering, they are a solid performer.

How do you like that Burris? How does it compare to the Razor? I found a like new one on another forum. It’s the 201019 ballistic dot model.

 

[W54/XM-388]

If you are at the $2k budget range, do yourself a favour and call Scott at Liberty Optics and see what kind of deal he could make you on a Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10
It's a great option and it might be something you can afford.

 

[Diesel79]

If you are at the $2k budget range, do yourself a favour and call Scott at Liberty Optics and see what kind of deal he could make you on a Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10
It's a great option and it might be something you can afford.

I emailed him today after reading about them on here, but I will call him on Monday. I was trying to stay at 2k or under with mount and scope. That would have to be a smoking deal.

 

[alamo5000]

I recently bought a new optic from Athlon. Their 1-10 LPVO with the mil Christmas tree was a pleasant surprise. It was around $1000 bucks but it punches way above its price range.

 

[Birddog6424]

How do you like that Burris? How does it compare to the Razor? I found a like new one on another forum. It’s the 201019 ballistic dot model.

LOW did a great job with those 8x XTRIIs. The came in FFP or SFP. Rock solid value at the $1k they sold at.

I have two of them on 3 Gun rifles. I'll never get rid of them. I wish they still made them.

 

[CIB2007]

So I have a razor 1-10 with a badger condition one 1.7 on my personal gun and an nx8 on my work gun with a geissele 1.93 and a off set rmr. The 1-10 IMO is way nicer than the NX8, one is the eye box is more forgiving and since it’s a 34mm its a bit brighter. All in all the razor is easier to look through. The NX8 is a beast and we beat the hell out of our equipment and we haven’t had one go down. The problem I have with it is it’s a .2mrad vs the vortex .1 but that more of my preference so to each their own. As for the mounts, if you aren't using a gas mask then the 1.7 is perfect height. The 1.93 is a bit tall unless you like more of a straight head position. I can use my razor with out an rmr from 3yds-600 all day. The nx8 I more or less use my rmr from 3-50yds then I’ll switch to the nx8.

 

[JDB55]

How do you like that Burris? How does it compare to the Razor? I found a like new one on another forum. It’s the 201019 ballistic dot model.

I am familiar with the SFP ballistic dot Burris XTR II, it is a fantastic scope and imo does not take a backseat to other options (in the sub $1400 mark). I found 2 for family at under $700 used(incredible value in that range) and the glass is clear, the dot is nuclear bright, the only downside is the 24 ounces. If that isn't a deal breaker and you don't want FFP in the 8x top end, the ballistic dot will not disappoint.

 

[LawnMM]

I'd say XTR2 1-8 but they're not making em any more.

So I'll now say Trijicon Credo 1-8, decent reticle and features, glass is clean, around the $1200 mark

Absolutely get the Badger Condition One mount, in a 1.93 height, use a Magpul CTR riser if you need one. Heads up shooting is way more comfortable.

The C1 mounts are outstanding and I'm a Spuhr fan but these will do anything the Spuhrs will for less money and they're sexier looking.

 

[Diesel79]

I'd say XTR2 1-8 but they're not making em any more.

So I'll now say Trijicon Credo 1-8, decent reticle and features, glass is clean, around the $1200 mark

Absolutely get the Badger Condition One mount, in a 1.93 height, use a Magpul CTR riser if you need one. Heads up shooting is way more comfortable.

The C1 mounts are outstanding and I'm a Spuhr fan but these will do anything the Spuhrs will for less money and they're sexier looking.

Yea, I’m really liking the sleeker look of the Badger.

Im thinking I will go with 1.93 height, but the 1.7 also gets a lot of positive press. Since I’m taller I’m thinking the 1.93 might be more comfortable, at least for sitting and standing which would be mostly what I’m doing.

Any downsides with going 1.93 over the 1.7 other than not as comfortable shooting prone? I saw an article/video about taller mounts causing parallax issues with LPVO. Not sure if that is true in all instances or on usage?

Do the taller heights affect a BDC reticle more, or I suppose that can be all manipulated with Strelok to find out what is best.

 

[LawnMM]

BDC reticles get you close, they're not a precision instrument and the farther you shoot the more 'off' they're going to be.

That why I prefer LVPOs that you can dial with regular MIL reticles because they're not based on a certain bullet and velocity where everything else doesn't really line up.

As for parallax that's determined by where the manufacturer sets it at the factory if it isn't adjustable not the height of the mount.

What's probably happening is they aren't using a stock that's adjustable or a cheek riser of some kind and because their head is floating in space their eyeball isn't centered and THEY are introducing parallax with bad head position behind the scope.

Jacob Bynum proved this ten years ago parallax is completely irrelevant as long as your eyeball is centered on the scope. It only matters if you have poor head and eye position and the target is at a range where parallax is present.

 

[sled_mack]

I recently bought a new optic from Athlon. Their 1-10 LPVO with the mil Christmas tree was a pleasant surprise. It was around $1000 bucks but it punches way above its price range.

@alamo5000 how bright is the illumination in this scope? Daylight bright? It’s really got my interest.
thanks.

 

[alamo5000]

@alamo5000 how bright is the illumination in this scope? Daylight bright? It’s really got my interest.
thanks.

Compared to my Aimpoint T2 it's not even close to daylight bright. That said it's VERY useable. If you go out to run it on a bright July day in the summer sun you can still get on it, but if it is evening, or morning, or overcast, or indoors it's not a problem. It also depends on if there is contrast on the target.

The entire reticle is not illuminated. It's just the horse shoe. That has pros and cons. When you dial down to 1x it's not "busy" at all, which is a great thing. On 10x thought because it's not illuminated if the target isn't contrasting you need to pay attention to what you are doing.

 

[LRRPF52]

I love the NX8 for its overall compactness and usefulness.

I love the Razor Gen III 1-10 for its superb unobstructed FOV and clarity. When you throw the Razor 1-10 up, it’s as if the scope body disappears and you’re just looking at the target area in front of you, with either the reticle or bright red dot superimposed on it.

I still like the NX8 though. We’re spoiled with the options we have nowadays.

I noticed OP is in MN, which would factor in significantly for my decision, though you can’t go wrong with either one.

Another factor to consider is capped vs uncapped turrets. For a modern tree stadia reticle, I really like capped, low profile turrets and if I was in MN, I think for a .223 blaster, capped with tree reticle would be baseline requirements. Lots of flat terrain, forest, not a lot of places to shoot distance, really cold winters with heavy gloved hands.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I emailed him today after reading about them on here, but I will call him on Monday. I was trying to stay at 2k or under with mount and scope. That would have to be a smoking deal.

Sometimes you find that if something is just a bit above your initial budget idea but is a really good item, it's worth figuring out how to stretch the budget so you buy once cry once, rather than settling for second best because you wanted to stick to a rigid number idea.

That is a choice you have to make for yourself, but you might as well have all the information so you can decide what works best for you.

 

[Pappasniper]

I bought the NX8 and have been happy with it. I have some cheap Primary arms scopes 1-6 that are good for a cheap scope.

PB

 

[Diesel79]

I talked to Scott at Liberty and ordered up the Vortex. Great pricing and great guy to buy from.

Since the scope will be dedicated to 223/556 and stay on my 18” JP, I went with the JM1 reticle. Playing around in Strelok Pro the hash marks work out to pretty much perfect with a 200 zero then 300,400,500, and 600 at the subsequent marks with the loads I’m using. I’ll just learn the holdovers.